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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 18:20:46 GMT
After playing a bit of that game, and then playing ME:A. I can sense how **** Bioware has become on creating quality games. I mean this game is 10 years old, It has the "LOTR Factor" in it. Man the freaking cutscenes, motioncapture and character interactions are "SO FREAKIN ENGAGING". SOB what a sad story for Bioware, even Dragon Age Inquisition is pretty Bad compared to DA:O. Wish one day Bioware will start creating something like this or could even do just DA:O with the FrostBite engine. So.... what comes with the ultimate edition? Also, what platforms is that available on?
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Post by Iakus on Apr 9, 2017 18:22:00 GMT
DA O is peak Bioware. Hate it or love it, It has all of the cliche that BioWare is known for, but also BioWare at its best. I just find this funny because 3-5 years ago Balder's Gate 2 was considered peak Bioware by many fans and DA:O was being run through shit puddle. BG2 is peak Biwoare. But DAO is still great. Probably the last truly great Bioware game.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 9, 2017 18:27:57 GMT
I just find this funny because 3-5 years ago Balder's Gate 2 was considered peak Bioware by many fans and DA:O was being run through shit puddle. BG2 is peak Biwoare. But DAO is still great. Probably the last truly great Bioware game. Last great game is subjective. It's also a bit sad that people consider a game to be their last great game too. I admit I'm more of a more glass half full in that regard, but I can see merits in all games, flawed or not.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 9, 2017 18:30:51 GMT
BG2 is peak Biwoare. But DAO is still great. Probably the last truly great Bioware game. Last great game is subjective. It's also a bit sad that people consider a game to be their last great game too. I admit I'm more of a more glass half full in that regard, but I can see merits in all games, flawed or not. Of course it's subjective. Would it help if I said "last great game so far"? Bioware has made good games since then. I certainly got my money's worth out of DA2 and DAI. I just wouldn't call anything released since then "great" I happen to think Bioware has been suffering from an identity crisis these last several years and have forgotten their roots.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 9, 2017 18:32:52 GMT
Last great game is subjective. It's also a bit sad that people consider a game to be their last great game too. I admit I'm more of a more glass half full in that regard, but I can see merits in all games, flawed or not. Of course it's subjective. Would it help if I said "last great game so far"? Bioware has made good games since then. I certainly got my money's worth out of DA2 and DAI. I just wouldn't call anything released since then "great" I happen to think Bioware has been suffering from an identity crisis these last several years and have forgotten their roots. it would be more fair to say that sure. I think however it's ultimately one of those things well always do, you know? Endlessly argue it in the end because of our passions for a genre. It's why I still come here.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 9, 2017 18:40:12 GMT
Hands down my favorite DA game, and one of my top two Bioware games in general. It was last Bioware game that I thought was just awesome. BG2, KOTOR, ME1, and DA:O. Since then I haven't really thought any of the games were just outstanding. There were some I've thought were good, but none I just wanted to start a new game as soon as I finished the first.
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Post by peabuddie on Apr 9, 2017 18:50:58 GMT
True true That's still more emotion that the Warden shows throughout the entirety of DA:O. I have hundreds of pictures of DAO playthroughs. I just went through them to compare. They really are far superior to MEA as far as expression. You have frowns, deep frowns, despair, anger, confusions and curiosity. The faces have much more character, frown lines, age lines, smile lines. The body language is better too. People with arms crossed, standing away and looking over, sitting and looking up and to the side. All kinds of body language. I would post photos but it's a pain I don't feel like dealing with right now. Overall I think DAO did a better job of displaying ranges of emotions in different scenarios. Better writing too, by far. RE: combat. Sure it was slow and clunky, but it was deeply strategic and when things really got going it was CRAZY. You had the Perfect storm with ice, lightning and fire aoe's, finishing moves with warriors (I miss finishing moves so much!) It was a ball.
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Post by rpgmaster on Apr 9, 2017 18:51:36 GMT
My favourite bit is the way you can just buy gifts to improve relationships, rather than through your actions. Or the broken combat. Or the interminable random encounters. Or the deep roads. Or the underwear mannequin sex. Bioware have definitely gone downhill. Underwear mannequin sex? OH NOES!!! 0/10 WORST GAME OF THE CENTURY!!!
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Post by shodanas on Apr 9, 2017 18:52:22 GMT
DA O is peak Bioware. Hate it or love it, It has all of the cliche that BioWare is known for, but also BioWare at its best. I just find this funny because 3-5 years ago Balder's Gate 2 was considered peak Bioware by many fans and DA:O was being run through shit puddle. As far as high fantasy CRPG's goes Baldur's Gate II is Bioware's pinnacle. A pinnacle no one else has reached imho.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 9, 2017 19:44:35 GMT
Or the combat being weak. Or the long in the tooth bioware style by 2009 standards. Or the really bad character progression. Don't get me wrong i like origins a lot, but it does have problems even in 2009. I dunno, I think that Origin was good for its time. Do you have examples for better RPG's from the same period? In 2009? It is the best rpg of the day. But it was a time where rpgs included star ocean, lost odyssey, and dlc for fallout 3. That's all I remember from that time, there may be more but there is a decent amount of diversity there. Thing is, doesn't mean the game is not flawed in the end.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 9, 2017 19:45:26 GMT
Yup. All fans need is to boot up an old BioWare game and the reality check sets in. All the Andromeda apologists have just forgotten the feeling they had when they played the trilogy or Dragon Age Origins. It's a different company more and more infested with EA veteran devs, contrary to how BioWare was always formerly a studio that hired not just game-developers but all sorts of professions to increase perspective, and they hired too many fanboys while the talent left. BioWare just isn't the same company and I think that's finally starting to set in to the remaining naysayers. I decided to play through my Bioware library in the months leading up to Andromeda, so that reality check was fresh in my mind. I think it helped keep my expectations realistic -- because Bioware makes some DAMN FINE games that I heartily enjoy playing, but there's always a certain level of jank in pretty much every one. Every game is a bit different... But I've enjoyed all of 'em so far, and Andromeda's no exception. It has some silly issues and a lack of polish that's surprising. But it's fun, and it's MORE MASS EFFECT, which feels pretty Mass Effecty down in my curmudgeonly old soul. There's a lot of games I don't like enough to play once, let alone multiple times, let alone play repeatedly for years. Dragon Age Origins belongs in the latter category, and I suspect Mass Effect Andromeda will as well. Sorry you're not getting the warm fuzzies off this one!
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 9, 2017 19:50:04 GMT
DA O is peak Bioware. Hate it or love it, It has all of the cliche that BioWare is known for, but also BioWare at its best. I just find this funny because 3-5 years ago Balder's Gate 2 was considered peak Bioware by many fans and DA:O was being run through shit puddle. Sounds like Fallout fan base after Fallout 4 was released. At first Fallout 3 was the greatest game ever and New Vegas was shit but now New Vegas is great. Gamers are bipolar and honestly don't know what they want.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2017 19:54:00 GMT
BG2 is peak Biwoare. But DAO is still great. Probably the last truly great Bioware game. Last great game is subjective. It's also a bit sad that people consider a game to be their last great game too. I admit I'm more of a more glass half full in that regard, but I can see merits in all games, flawed or not. I think we can stipulate that peak Bio works for BG2, in the somewhat limited sense that Bio was as far ahead of the current state-of-the-art as they ever have been. (I'd award DA:O a tie in this regard, but mileages will vary.) It would be unreasonable to grade BG2 ahistorically, since so much of it is obsolete -- the romance tracks and general lack of meaningful choice would be unacceptable in a modern RPG, for instance
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Post by suikoden on Apr 9, 2017 19:58:52 GMT
DA:O has 91% at Metacritic. ME2 has 94% at Metacritic. Andromeda has just 74% at Metacritic. Down to 70% on PS - where it has the most reviews, so the others should come down too. I think it has the potential to hit the 60's.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 9, 2017 20:05:22 GMT
Last great game is subjective. It's also a bit sad that people consider a game to be their last great game too. I admit I'm more of a more glass half full in that regard, but I can see merits in all games, flawed or not. I think we can stipulate that peak Bio works for BG2, in the somewhat limited sense that Bio was as far ahead of the current state-of-the-art as they ever have been. (I'd award DA:O a tie in this regard, but mileages will vary.) It would be unreasonable to grade BG2 ahistorically, since so much of it is obsolete -- the romance tracks and general lack of meaningful choice would be unacceptable in a modern RPG, for instance You are correct that some of BG2's features are archaic or obsolete, it simply backs my belief that Bioware should look back at what made their name in the first place, and try to improve on that, rather than cribbing off others, like Bethesda or CDPR. Could you imagine Baldur's Gate with an extra fifteen years of tech and updated mechanics behind it? DAI was a small step in that direction, but it still tried too hard to be Skyrim 2.0.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 9, 2017 20:09:29 GMT
It's a shame that we live in an universe where you can only enjoy one thing at the mutual exclusion of another thing vaguely related to it. It's like, I want to love burritos but that would mean giving up empanadas. And just the other day, I watched season two of Better Call Saul, and was really entertained, but then I remembered I ALSO was entertained by season two of Breaking Bad, and now I have to choose.
Well, I'm off to watch Citizen Kane now, which is what every other movie should be like if it doesn't want to be terrible.
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Post by ClarkKent on Apr 9, 2017 20:10:49 GMT
Tbf DAO looked like ass, even for it's time. I do find it quite funny that it took three Dragon Age games for their to be an instalment that looked better than Mass Effect 1.
On a related note, as much as I love the Citadel DLC I kinda hold it responsible for the quippy snark fests that have been the last two Bioware games. Another thing I loved about DAO was the balance between grim dark and humour was perfectly balanced.
You start having too much humour and I stop taking your setting seriously.
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Post by suikoden on Apr 9, 2017 20:12:06 GMT
Last great game is subjective. It's also a bit sad that people consider a game to be their last great game too. I admit I'm more of a more glass half full in that regard, but I can see merits in all games, flawed or not. I think we can stipulate that peak Bio works for BG2, in the somewhat limited sense that Bio was as far ahead of the current state-of-the-art as they ever have been. (I'd award DA:O a tie in this regard, but mileages will vary.) It would be unreasonable to grade BG2 ahistorically, since so much of it is obsolete -- the romance tracks and general lack of meaningful choice would be unacceptable in a modern RPG, for instance I'd say BG2 has more meaningful choices than Andromeda... Deciding between the guild or the vampires, for example - and the game itself is more 'open world' than Andromeda, with more places to visit, and 15! possible companions to recruit. And the visuals in that game, aside from the sprites, are still gorgeous. Music is 1000% better as well.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2017 20:17:45 GMT
@ Iakus: I'm not sure how you operationalize that. Do we have a functional definition of factors which "made their name in the first place" that ME:A deliberately did not attempt to include?( As opposed to attempting them but botching the execution.)
And then you've got Sylvius saying that DAI was the best Bio game since BG1; he's always considered BG2 to be a big step down from BG1. He's an outlier, sure, but IIRC that's always been the position of the RPGCodex folks too. We'll never get universal agreement on this stuff.
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Post by panzerwzh on Apr 9, 2017 20:18:52 GMT
I think we can stipulate that peak Bio works for BG2, in the somewhat limited sense that Bio was as far ahead of the current state-of-the-art as they ever have been. (I'd award DA:O a tie in this regard, but mileages will vary.) It would be unreasonable to grade BG2 ahistorically, since so much of it is obsolete -- the romance tracks and general lack of meaningful choice would be unacceptable in a modern RPG, for instance I'd say BG2 has more meaningful choices than Andromeda... Deciding between the guild or the vampires, for example - and the game itself is more 'open world' than Andromeda, with more places to visit, and 15! possible companions to recruit. And the visuals in that game, aside from the sprites, are still gorgeous. Music is 1000% better as well. Nah I'm pretty sure da music of BG2 are 1,000,000 folds better than MEA. And, the NPC team mates are about 1,000 times more interesting.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2017 20:22:10 GMT
I think we can stipulate that peak Bio works for BG2, in the somewhat limited sense that Bio was as far ahead of the current state-of-the-art as they ever have been. (I'd award DA:O a tie in this regard, but mileages will vary.) It would be unreasonable to grade BG2 ahistorically, since so much of it is obsolete -- the romance tracks and general lack of meaningful choice would be unacceptable in a modern RPG, for instance I'd say BG2 has more meaningful choices than Andromeda... Deciding between the guild or the vampires, for example - and the game itself is more 'open world' than Andromeda, with more places to visit, and 15! possible companions to recruit. And the visuals in that game, aside from the sprites, are still gorgeous. Music is 1000% better as well. I see one choice there. I don't know what metric we should use to compare optional content for this purpose. Any measure you propose woukd obviously designed to make ME:A look bad, and I'm not sure I have an alternative which I could confidently state was objective.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 9, 2017 20:26:56 GMT
@ Iakus: I'm not sure how you operationalize that. Do we have a functional definition of factors which "made their name in the first place" that ME:A deliberately did not attempt to include?( As opposed to attempting them but botching the execution.) And then you've got Sylvius saying that DAI was the best Bio game since BG1; he's always considered BG2 to be a big step down from BG1. He's an outlier, sure, but IIRC that's always been the position of the RPGCodex folks too. We'll never get universal agreement on this stuff. I can only speak for myself of course, but: Large, epic story with lots of side quests which make up their own storylines as well (not just fetch quests) Numerous companions with their own backgrounds and agendas. Not all of whom are compatible (protip: don't try to have both the drow priestess and paladin in the group at once) and not all of whom will want to hang around with YOU based on your choices. The choice to be good or evil (or simply uncaring). Variety of urban and natural environments to adventure in. Varied enemies that makes you approach combat differently based on what you're fighting.
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Apr 9, 2017 21:11:56 GMT
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 9, 2017 21:18:24 GMT
People do tend to look at their old favorites through rose tinted glasses.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 21:19:01 GMT
Seriously? Because i just have played for the first time the MET, then all three games of the DA franchise from fall 2016 to Andromeda release, and DA:O is the second to last of the least favorite (only Inquisition is worse, but Inquisition only manages to be not the worst Bio game EVER because of NWN1 fiasco).
Origins is so slapstick and silly, and the medieval fantasy there is so obviously costume deep... ouch. SHale pooping on pigeons heads, Morrigan alone can tank any game (in my case she tanked two), having to go and get the Urn of Frigging Scared Ashes when all you have to do is put a pillow on a face of an old man and promote his very reasonable replacement....
Andromeda tries to create characters that are somewhat real (and thanks ye gods, likable), and its plot is quite a lot more engaging than the "Find the Allies to Fight the Blight, oh Warden!"
Anyway, I'd get it if someone was more complimentary of ME2/3 or DA2 vs Andromeda, but the Origins? It is an upgraded BG2, and was a step forward for its times, certainly a good recovery after NWN1 nightmare, but the ME franchise is by far stronger lore and writing wise than their fantasy syndicates.
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