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Post by undecided on Apr 11, 2017 9:28:25 GMT
It seems to me that the norm for most builds in multiplayer is usually something like 6/6/1/6/6 or or some for of that. This is usually the case for a lot of builds as the most powerful skill changes usually take place at the end of the skill tree.
Because of this it generally means that 1 skill in a tree is completely neglected because it is deemed the least useful. Which in my opinion is annoying since we only get 3 skills to work with anyway and putting a few points into each tree while for some builds it works most of the time it is not as beneficial or worthwhile.
So what if through some way such as tied to character ranks, bonus stats or resetting a character to level 1 we were able to eventually max out all skill trees? Maxing out everything still gives plenty of options for a variety of builds as a lot of skills can be specialised into doing certain things and there are many characters to work with that have different skills to work with.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 11, 2017 9:53:04 GMT
No. What makes different builds interesting is that you have to make sacrifices in some areas in order to excel in others. And merely choosing between A and B evolutions doesn't quite accomplish this.
Also, one rank in a skill doesn't always mean that the skill gets neglected. Sometimes one rank is simply enough to fulfil its purpose, even though the skill gets to be used all the time. For example, I have only one point in Pull on my human adept, but it's on cooldown 90% of the time. There are many more examples.
I do dislike the fact that Rank 6 evos tend to be so important in MEA though, that's why we have so many 1/6/6/6/6 builds and very few 3/5/6/6/6, 4/4/6/6/6 or 5/5/5/5/6 builds.
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KLGChaos
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 11, 2017 9:56:47 GMT
I'm fine with skills being limited. Just don't like how they're locked behind character ranks.
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Post by undecided on Apr 11, 2017 10:53:39 GMT
No. What makes different builds interesting is that you have to make sacrifices in some areas in order to excel in others. And merely choosing between A and B evolutions doesn't quite accomplish this. Also, one rank in a skill doesn't always mean that the skill gets neglected. Sometimes one rank is simply enough to fulfil its purpose, even though the skill gets to be used all the time. For example, I have only one point in Pull on my human adept, but it's on cooldown 90% of the time. There are many more examples. I do dislike the fact that Rank 6 evos tend to be so important in MEA though, that's why we have so many 1/6/6/6/6 builds and very few 3/5/6/6/6, 4/4/6/6/6 or 5/5/5/5/6 builds. By Neglected I didnt mean not use its great that we can still have access to it. And sure it might do something small but in this game with only 3 powers to begin with it feels like its a shame that you do have to make a sacrifice at all. You get 2 powers that have all these bonuses and nice effects then 1 power thats just ok or sometimes not even that. I dislike the approach of making a build being you having to basically pick least useful skill then avoid putting points into it. Id much rather it be focus on the evolution's and picking do you go with extra melee damage, or cool downs do you get this buff for gun damage or do you focus on powers. If i recall ME3 was much the same being 6/6/6/6/0 for a lot of builds.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 11, 2017 10:59:29 GMT
No. What makes different builds interesting is that you have to make sacrifices in some areas in order to excel in others. And merely choosing between A and B evolutions doesn't quite accomplish this. Also, one rank in a skill doesn't always mean that the skill gets neglected. Sometimes one rank is simply enough to fulfil its purpose, even though the skill gets to be used all the time. For example, I have only one point in Pull on my human adept, but it's on cooldown 90% of the time. There are many more examples. I do dislike the fact that Rank 6 evos tend to be so important in MEA though, that's why we have so many 1/6/6/6/6 builds and very few 3/5/6/6/6, 4/4/6/6/6 or 5/5/5/5/6 builds. By Neglected I didnt mean not use its great that we can still have access to it. And sure it might do something small but in this game with only 3 powers to begin with it feels like its a shame that you do have to make a sacrifice at all. You get 2 powers that have all these bonuses and nice effects then 1 power thats just ok or sometimes not even that. I dislike the approach of making a build being you having to basically pick least useful skill then avoid putting points into it. Id much rather it be focus on the evolution's and picking do you go with extra melee damage, or cool downs do you get this buff for gun damage or do you focus on powers. If i recall ME3 was much the same being 6/6/6/6/0 for a lot of builds. You can have full six ranks in all your active skills, so I don't see the problem here. While passives tend to be great, it's not like you can't make a viable build without maxing them.
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Post by Astronautic on Apr 11, 2017 10:59:52 GMT
No, anyone that disagrees is bad at the game.
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Post by Pyrceval78 on Apr 11, 2017 11:05:06 GMT
No, anyone that disagrees is bad at the game.
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kaileena_sands
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Post by kaileena_sands on Apr 11, 2017 11:17:18 GMT
No. I already feel that somehow most skill trees offer less (viable) diversity than what ME3's trees offered. It would completely remove the point of putting the skill points yourself, might as well we just get pre-done characters that you just slap Vanquisher/Piranha different weapons on.
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Post by tatann on Apr 11, 2017 11:32:18 GMT
People complain about powers being too weak, then refuse to get more points to make them more powerful and/or more useful
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Post by NathanS84 on Apr 11, 2017 11:38:47 GMT
People complain about powers being too weak, then refuse to get more points to make them more powerful and/or more useful Most powers are weak even when you're maxing both the power itself and every single power damage bonus skill on your kit. The amount of skill points isn't the issue, BW nerfing 90% of the powers and weapons (compared to ME3) to the ground IS. Which is kind of mind-boggling since quite a lot of powers in ME3 were already lacking in the damage department and better specced for cc/utility.
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Post by tatann on Apr 11, 2017 11:48:10 GMT
People complain about powers being too weak, then refuse to get more points to make them more powerful and/or more useful Most powers are weak even when you're maxing both the power itself and every single power damage bonus skill on your kit. The amount of skill points isn't the issue, BW nerfing 90% of the powers and weapons (compared to ME3) to the ground IS. Which is kind of mind-boggling since quite a lot of powers in ME3 were already lacking in the damage department and better specced for cc/utility. Exactly my point, more points give more utility, unless you spec for damage which would be useless considering the current state. So at least, if we must rely on (shitty) weapons for damage, powers could at least give us crowd control with decent cooldowns
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Post by NathanS84 on Apr 11, 2017 12:24:43 GMT
Most powers are weak even when you're maxing both the power itself and every single power damage bonus skill on your kit. The amount of skill points isn't the issue, BW nerfing 90% of the powers and weapons (compared to ME3) to the ground IS. Which is kind of mind-boggling since quite a lot of powers in ME3 were already lacking in the damage department and better specced for cc/utility.
Exactly my point, more points give more utility, unless you spec for damage which would be useless considering the current state. So at least, if we must rely on (shitty) weapons for damage, powers could at least give us crowd control with decent cooldowns But we already have enough points to max 4 powers at the cost of sacrificing one, not to mention some powers give you a decent value with only one point invested while you can safely skip some rank 6 evos. Maxing everything would barely change anything. The real problem is the combination of low damage and long recharge and that 's what BW should address (but that bunch of pyjaks probably won't, I'm sure that Assault Turret or Flak Cannon are absolute monters on Bronze). Plus, at the end of the day, Mass Effect is still 50% RPG so making choices is an inherent part of the game and what makes speccing a character interesting. It's highly subjective but "Max ALL the things !" simply is boring and I don't think having to pick between evos is enough to compensate.
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Post by kaileena_sands on Apr 11, 2017 12:40:48 GMT
Plus, at the end of the day, Mass Effect is still 50% RPG so making choices is an inherent part of the game and what makes speccing a character interesting. It's highly subjective but "Max ALL the things !" simply is boring and I don't think having to pick between evos is enough to compensate. Exactly. I would prefer BW get their shit together and give us 2 decent powers instead of having enough points to spec into three crappy ones.
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 11, 2017 12:49:57 GMT
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Post by undecided on Apr 11, 2017 12:54:57 GMT
Plus, at the end of the day, Mass Effect is still 50% RPG so making choices is an inherent part of the game and what makes speccing a character interesting. It's highly subjective but "Max ALL the things !" simply is boring and I don't think having to pick between evos is enough to compensate. Exactly. I would prefer BW get their shit together and give us 2 decent powers instead of having enough points to spec into three crappy ones. 50% RPG? Well its multiplayer so id say its a bit separated from the RPG side of things, and if your going by that logic you can max more then what you need in single player.. more of a choice of what you get first. Id think of multiplayer more inline with other games like Killing floor, Warframe and payday. As NathanS84 it is subjective. I find the picking the character kit ,weapon load out and evolution's the important parts multiplayer. With what 20+ Characters and counting? Id find it more fun picking a Characters kit and overtime unlocking everything for that character more enjoyable.
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Post by NathanS84 on Apr 11, 2017 13:03:07 GMT
Plus, at the end of the day, Mass Effect is still 50% RPG so making choices is an inherent part of the game and what makes speccing a character interesting. It's highly subjective but "Max ALL the things !" simply is boring and I don't think having to pick between evos is enough to compensate. Exactly. I would prefer BW get their shit together and give us 2 decent powers instead of having enough points to spec into three crappy ones. I'd rather have 3 good/decent/fun ones, so I can be torn between them or run builds that would give BSN a stroke. 66653 power damage KroSol with a ClaymoreClick the link, first non-pinned thread is dealing with Asari reproduction. I mean Mass Effect (well, 1/2/3) is about SP more than multi for me even if I played like 2.5K MP games, but nope. Nopenopenope.
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 11, 2017 13:07:11 GMT
Click the link, first non-pinned thread is dealing with Asari reproduction. I mean Mass Effect (well, 1/2/3) is about SP more than multi for me even if I played like 2.5K MP games, but nope. Nopenopenope.
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megabeast37215
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Post by megabeast37215 on Apr 11, 2017 13:13:40 GMT
It depends on the power. About one third of the time the rank 5 or six evos aren't that good.. or the rank 6 evo is and the rank 5 isn't.. so you have to ask yourself if the rank six evo is worth 11 points. What could those 11 points be in four ranks of another power?
Basically.. it's not always black and white. Saying 6/6/1/6/6 is always best is silly. With so many characters, there's a lot that's possible.
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Post by undecided on Apr 11, 2017 13:38:40 GMT
It depends on the power. About one third of the time the rank 5 or six evos aren't that good.. or the rank 6 evo is and the rank 5 isn't.. so you have to ask yourself if the rank six evo is worth 11 points. What could those 11 points be in four ranks of another power? Basically.. it's not always black and white. Saying 6/6/1/6/6 is always best is silly. With so many characters, there's a lot that's possible. I said most builds end up being 6/6/1/6/6 or something like that. Not that its always best I know there can be others builds but they seem to be in the minority. I looked at 13 builds earlier today and at least 9 or 10 were 6/6/6/6/1 set ups.
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Post by colonelkungpao on Apr 11, 2017 13:49:06 GMT
I voted no. If you play long enough you'll get to the point where you won't miss the evolutions you skipped.
That being said, if they allowed it I certainly wouldn't complain.
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 11, 2017 13:56:56 GMT
It depends on the power. About one third of the time the rank 5 or six evos aren't that good.. or the rank 6 evo is and the rank 5 isn't.. so you have to ask yourself if the rank six evo is worth 11 points. What could those 11 points be in four ranks of another power? Basically.. it's not always black and white. Saying 6/6/1/6/6 is always best is silly. With so many characters, there's a lot that's possible. I said most builds end up being 6/6/1/6/6 or something like that. Not that its always best I know there can be others builds but they seem to be in the minority. I looked at 13 builds earlier today and at least 9 or 10 were 6/6/6/6/1 set ups. How many of those were max powers and passives with 1 point fitness though
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Post by nucleartech76 on Apr 11, 2017 13:56:58 GMT
Meh, I do think maybe it would make people grind more to promote if they got some extra skill points. Honestly though there are several changes that need to be made if this game is going to have some longevity though.
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Post by Shodan/etm125 on Apr 11, 2017 14:51:10 GMT
This is one of the worst ideas I've heard.
But hyperbole aside, the entire fun of ME, or any RPG shooter, are the builds. If you can max out everything there are no builds. I mean, it's a 7 wave horde mode that is exactly the same every time. So really, what you have (personal attachments and preferences aside) is a build creator and a combat simulator to test your builds on. No builds = no fun. I'd stop playing immediately.
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TheThirdRace
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Post by TheThirdRace on Apr 11, 2017 20:03:21 GMT
I think it's better for diversity to be unable to max all trees.
In response to all those 6/6/1/6/6 builds, I think if a power or a passive is consistently neglected and stays at 1, it should be either buffed tremendously or completely reworked.
Every evolution should be worthwhile, it should make you feel bad to have to choose. This would promote diversity a thousand fold and people would play a lot more to test all the variations.
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Post by R1Outcast on Apr 11, 2017 20:10:46 GMT
I like that they all can't be maxed. Means you have to make a sacrifice somewhere.
I would however, like it if we could start with all abilities at 0. instead of the top three always starting at 1 even after respec.
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