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Post by LilTIM on Apr 13, 2017 10:55:12 GMT
I'm looking for a in universe reason, i already know the obvious OOC answer.
You would think that the salarians and turians are the ones with more grudges with the krogan, and having their own ark, they could easily veto their membership. I haven't found anything ingame that explains exactly why they were brought, with the risks of antagonizing people. If you needed extra muscle, why not bring batarians or elcor instead?
The krogan are such a contentious issue by milky way standards, that i'm really surprised the initiative leadership decided to bring aboard that "problem" with them to a new galaxy.
Is there anywhere game when this is expanded upon? As in giving solid reasons for accepting the krogan - the only non council species brought, instead of some other?
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 13, 2017 11:16:37 GMT
Short answer. Bodyguards/muscle.
Krogan are hearty and make good front front line soldiers. The way Tann talks, and heck, even Addison, you get the impression they did, for all purposes, intended to use the krogan.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 13, 2017 11:17:17 GMT
People would have complained if they weren't.
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Post by luke on Apr 13, 2017 12:02:05 GMT
As others have said, they were brought along as extra muscle. Nakmor Morda respected Jien Garson because she didn't harbour any prejudice toward the Krogan, so it's likely Jien Garson allowed clan Nakmor to join the initiative because she could see they wanted a fresh start. Number 8 and the rest of the Initiative leadership wouldn't have been able to overrule Jien Garson's word.
Bringing Batarians would have been more inflammatory than bringing the Krogan considering their isolationist and slave-taking culture. I still want to see Batarians at some point, though I can't think of an in-universe reason for their inclusion in the AI. Perhaps Jien Garson could have made arrangements for a small group of them in the second wave.
As for the Elcor, they're already on their way aboard the Quarian ark. Their physiology means they have needs that need to be supported, much like the Hanar and Volus.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 13, 2017 12:39:50 GMT
According to Nexus Uprising, the Nakmor clan was involved in building the Nexus (or maybe even the Arks). Jier Garson was impressed with them and go along with them. As a result, she invited them (specifically them, not krogan in general) to the AI. They were all builders, for the record.
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Post by vyndral on Apr 13, 2017 13:06:09 GMT
According to Nexus Uprising, the Nakmor clan was involved in building the Nexus (or maybe even the Arks). Jier Garson was impressed with them and go along with them. As a result, she invited them (specifically them, not krogan in general) to the AI. They were all builders, for the record. This. Also no matter how people try to down play it, the Krogan are painted as the hands down best fighters in our galaxy. Even Tann who fears them, wakes them up right away when there is a fight he needs to win. The Krogan who do come make the point that they are trying to get away from the past and start over. Which is main reason they leave the Nexus as soon as Tann betrays them. Since they see this as exactly what happened to them in the past. And they have no intrest in going down that path again.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 13, 2017 17:05:22 GMT
According to Nexus Uprising, the Nakmor clan was involved in building the Nexus (or maybe even the Arks). Jier Garson was impressed with them and go along with them. As a result, she invited them (specifically them, not krogan in general) to the AI. They were all builders, for the record. I can second this
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 13, 2017 17:37:22 GMT
TBH, I think what the krogans did* is unforgiveable.
*not killing Tann
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Post by sdzald on Apr 13, 2017 18:19:50 GMT
Everyone is bringing up they are the muscle. I think for the Initiative there is another major reason. The Krogan seem to adapt to harsh environments much better then any of the other races. Seems like when you are going someplace new that you have little idea of what you are going to find you would bring the most adaptive race with you. I doubt it says exactly that anywhere in the codex but it fits.
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Post by sdzald on Apr 13, 2017 18:24:14 GMT
TBH, I think what the krogans did* is unforgiveable. *not killing Tann I don't mind Tann that much. At least he knows he is in over his head and once he realizes that Ryder is taking care of bizz he gets out of Ryder's way. Addison on the other hand.
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Post by tenny on Apr 13, 2017 18:33:07 GMT
I think its because Krogan are ideal first pioneeres you want when settling unknown planets. They are very hard to kill - both by enemies and enviroment.
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Post by jeyl on Apr 13, 2017 18:56:37 GMT
The whole Krogan situation in ME:A is just a mess. I just don't buy into the idea that the council races were all for letting Jien Garson not only allow a good number of Krogan onto the initiative, but also attempt to CURE some of the Genophage that's still affecting them. Curing the Genophage in ME3 was kind of a big deal for the Salarians in ME3. So much so that they wouldn't even help out with the weapon that was being built to END the Reaper Threat. What if the attempt to cure them worked better than expected? Like what if the reproductive efficiency was increased by 50% instead of 4%?
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 13, 2017 18:58:48 GMT
TBH, I think what the krogans did* is unforgiveable. *not killing Tann I don't mind Tann that much. At least he knows he is in over his head and once he realizes that Ryder is taking care of bizz he gets out of Ryder's way. Addison on the other hand. Addison's annoying but largely sticks to her own domain. Tann and whatshisface (Addison's peon) should be put out the airlock.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Apr 13, 2017 20:20:08 GMT
Because if there were no krogan in MEA you would have complained about that instead.
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Post by LilTIM on Apr 13, 2017 22:26:31 GMT
I think its because Krogan are ideal first pioneeres you want when settling unknown planets. They are very hard to kill - both by enemies and enviroment. This is a good reason, however according to the AI plans, they were going to settle "golden worlds" that were already in pretty good shape. Still i could see the use of krogans as pioneers in certain hazardous locations that would help with exploring, mining, fighting off threats (wildlife or aliens), etc. So yeah i can get behind that idea. The other idea that is sometimes mentioned ingame as "they're muscle" didn't make much sense to me, that's why i made the thread. I haven't read the uprising novel yet, and i know that Kesh is an engineer, but if that was a big motivation, then it should have been expanded a lot more ingame. Like someone arguing with Tann and using some of these reasons. It was quite disappointing to me that unlike in past games, the codex here provides very little in regards to clarification as to what is going on. The krogan entry says nothing about this, it's mostly about old milky way stuff that any trilogy player knows already. The relevant questions about the krogan in andromeda are just ignored.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 14, 2017 1:54:34 GMT
TBH, I think what the krogans did* is unforgiveable. *not killing Tann What, and end up with Addison in charge or something? Pass. I still vote for a Kesh/Kandros leadership.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 14, 2017 2:02:49 GMT
I think its because Krogan are ideal first pioneeres you want when settling unknown planets. They are very hard to kill - both by enemies and enviroment. This is a good reason, however according to the AI plans, they were going to settle "golden worlds" that were already in pretty good shape. Still i could see the use of krogans as pioneers in certain hazardous locations that would help with exploring, mining, fighting off threats (wildlife or aliens), etc. So yeah i can get behind that idea. The other idea that is sometimes mentioned ingame as "they're muscle" didn't make much sense to me, that's why i made the thread. I haven't read the uprising novel yet, and i know that Kesh is an engineer, but if that was a big motivation, then it should have been expanded a lot more ingame. Like someone arguing with Tann and using some of these reasons. It was quite disappointing to me that unlike in past games, the codex here provides very little in regards to clarification as to what is going on. The krogan entry says nothing about this, it's mostly about old milky way stuff that any trilogy player knows already. The relevant questions about the krogan in andromeda are just ignored. Tann is a huge bigot. He saw them as "dangerous krogan" first and engineers 1000th. He's the kind of salarian who believes the genophage was not only the best idea ever but that it could feasibly be brought back fully working (it's starting to show weakness after 2000 (plus an extra 600 asleep) years). Tann actually thought that he might eventually want to do so at some point - meaning soon, given the short life spans of salarians. The three leaders of the Nexus in uprising were Tann, Addison and Sloane. Don't trust a single one of them, Sloane mainly because her anger was ridiculous. She's not a people person and that was seriously needed when tensions were flaring.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 14, 2017 3:42:48 GMT
TBH, I think what the krogans did* is unforgiveable. *not killing Tann What, and end up with Addison in charge or something? Pass. I still vote for a Kesh/Kandros leadership. Addison isn't in the chain of succession, as far as I know. If the krogan (or the Pathfinder) went so far as to exile/execute Tann, they could go as far as to make Kesh the leader. (She's easily the most qualified)
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 14, 2017 3:56:38 GMT
What, and end up with Addison in charge or something? Pass. I still vote for a Kesh/Kandros leadership. Addison isn't in the chain of succession, as far as I know. If the krogan (or the Pathfinder) went so far as to exile/execute Tann, they could go as far as to make Kesh the leader. (She's easily the most qualified) The "succession" is automated, predetermined before the AI launched. Tann's name seemingly appeared out of nowhere, based solely upon his seniority (as in early backer/sign-up) for the Initiative. I still wonder if his appointment was sabotage, an error or something else unintended. It's entirely possible that Addison would be next in line. It's also possible that yet another sleeper's name would appear. Addison seemed surprised and dismayed to have been passed over when Tann's name appeared. She clearly seemed to believe that her senior leadership role was going to make her the obvious next step. Sloane and Kesh could've guided her, so that likely would've worked out better, as useless as she was pre-Pathfinder.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 14, 2017 11:31:24 GMT
Addison isn't in the chain of succession, as far as I know. If the krogan (or the Pathfinder) went so far as to exile/execute Tann, they could go as far as to make Kesh the leader. (She's easily the most qualified) The "succession" is automated, predetermined before the AI launched. Tann's name seemingly appeared out of nowhere, based solely upon his seniority (as in early backer/sign-up) for the Initiative. I still wonder if his appointment was sabotage, an error or something else unintended. It's entirely possible that Addison would be next in line. It's also possible that yet another sleeper's name would appear. Addison seemed surprised and dismayed to have been passed over when Tann's name appeared. She clearly seemed to believe that her senior leadership role was going to make her the obvious next step. Sloane and Kesh could've guided her, so that likely would've worked out better, as useless as she was pre-Pathfinder. I read the novel as well. (I've ranted elsewhere on this forum about how there are massive inconsistencies not only in characterization but in events too between the novel and the game.) My point is that Addison would not have automatically been in charge if Tann was eliminated.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 14, 2017 14:51:49 GMT
The "succession" is automated, predetermined before the AI launched. Tann's name seemingly appeared out of nowhere, based solely upon his seniority (as in early backer/sign-up) for the Initiative. I still wonder if his appointment was sabotage, an error or something else unintended. It's entirely possible that Addison would be next in line. It's also possible that yet another sleeper's name would appear. Addison seemed surprised and dismayed to have been passed over when Tann's name appeared. She clearly seemed to believe that her senior leadership role was going to make her the obvious next step. Sloane and Kesh could've guided her, so that likely would've worked out better, as useless as she was pre-Pathfinder. I read the novel as well. (I've ranted elsewhere on this forum about how there are massive inconsistencies not only in characterization but in events too between the novel and the game.) My point is that Addison would not have automatically been in charge if Tann was eliminated. I can tolerate the inconsistent characterization of Sloane, though I feel it was a mistake and a missed opportunity. The one that gets me the most is, "Many of the exiles were security". When Liam says that, I think, "Uh, what? I recall Sloane being the only security member exiled." The rest were engineers and random background characters. Some security personnel could've been exiled, but it felt like that would've been mentioned. Sloane getting taken in by her own people was a huge moment.
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Post by sdzald on Apr 14, 2017 14:57:57 GMT
Considering the ONLY character in the entire game that I like or even care about is Drak, I don't care why they brought them. I am glad they did. Besides I just can't imagine an ME game without them any more then leaving out Humans, Turain or Asria.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 14, 2017 15:21:34 GMT
I read the novel as well. (I've ranted elsewhere on this forum about how there are massive inconsistencies not only in characterization but in events too between the novel and the game.) My point is that Addison would not have automatically been in charge if Tann was eliminated. I can tolerate the inconsistent characterization of Sloane, though I feel it was a mistake and a missed opportunity. The one that gets me the most is, "Many of the exiles were security". When Liam says that, I think, "Uh, what? I recall Sloane being the only security member exiled." The rest were engineers and random background characters. Some security personnel could've been exiled, but it felt like that would've been mentioned. Sloane getting taken in by her own people was a huge moment. Similarly, on the computer terminal in some exiles' house (I don't recall on which planet), there are emails about being persuaded to join the rebellion that Sloane was starting... but in the book she not only doesn't start the uprising, but she was never part of it. She was literally in the wrong place at the wrong time, negotiating from the side of Nexus with the rebels, when the attack began. After killing a krogan in self-defense, she sticks with the future exiles to keep them from getting too out of control.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 14, 2017 15:31:45 GMT
I can tolerate the inconsistent characterization of Sloane, though I feel it was a mistake and a missed opportunity. The one that gets me the most is, "Many of the exiles were security". When Liam says that, I think, "Uh, what? I recall Sloane being the only security member exiled." The rest were engineers and random background characters. Some security personnel could've been exiled, but it felt like that would've been mentioned. Sloane getting taken in by her own people was a huge moment. Similarly, on the computer terminal in some exiles' house (I don't recall on which planet), there are emails about being persuaded to join the rebellion that Sloane was starting... but in the book she not only doesn't start the uprising, but she was never part of it. She was literally in the wrong place at the wrong time, negotiating from the side of Nexus with the rebels, when the attack began. After killing a krogan in self-defense, she sticks with the future exiles to keep them from getting too out of control. Yeah, I just ran into that text again, last night. I told myself, "He's referring to Sloane's 'promises' post-Exile, given that she was never part of their idiotic revolt." I figured that Sloane probably over-sold Kadara, initially. (There are records showing that the state of the water caused a full colonization to be scrapped.) This guy was like a typical BSNer, complaining because " promises" didn't work out perfectly. The actual intent of the text was pretty clear. It was so annoying, though, that I immediately rationalized a better explanation.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 14, 2017 21:40:47 GMT
If you encounter a hostile enemy force you want krogan.
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