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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Lazarus on Apr 15, 2017 23:37:03 GMT
"For example, we used to rely heavily on our forums, but now we've got several channels of information coming in. You just get a much larger pool, because when you're limiting it to one channel or two, it self-selects to an extent. You're only going to get feedback from people who'll take the time to become a member of that forum, or what have you. It's been nice having a broad assortment of people give us feedback – good and bad – through channels like Twitter and Facebook." Im sorry what? So what Im getting from this, is they got rid of the forums because they were relying too heavily on it for feedback? Ok...um wouldn't it make more sense to just also be more active on twitter, facebook, reddit etc then? Instead you completely nuke your offical fan forums because you want a larger pool of feedback? Makes no sense to me. Where you on the official forums near the end? There was no constructive criticism coming out of there anymore. It had devolved into a cesspool of hate and bile. Much better to nuke that disaster than try to get any reasonable criticism from it. That's how I recall it as well. After everyone finished the game and moved on, all that remained on the BSN forums were LI clubs and Miranda fans that would go on hate brigades against each other or the series in general.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 23:47:55 GMT
And they said the game was poorly written. What a craphouse interview that was.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 16, 2017 0:40:32 GMT
Still pissed....and wishing there was a middle finger emoticon... You mean this one?
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timebean
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It's just a game, folks...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by timebean on Apr 16, 2017 0:54:26 GMT
Still pissed....and wishing there was a middle finger emoticon... You mean this one? Added to post with child-like glee!!!!
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pantherdane
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Guilty until proven innocent.
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Post by pantherdane on Apr 16, 2017 2:30:39 GMT
"For example, we used to rely heavily on our forums, but now we've got several channels of information coming in. You just get a much larger pool, because when you're limiting it to one channel or two, it self-selects to an extent. You're only going to get feedback from people who'll take the time to become a member of that forum, or what have you. It's been nice having a broad assortment of people give us feedback – good and bad – through channels like Twitter and Facebook." Im sorry what? So what Im getting from this, is they got rid of the forums because they were relying too heavily on it for feedback? Ok...um wouldn't it make more sense to just also be more active on twitter, facebook, reddit etc then? Instead you completely nuke your offical fan forums because you want a larger pool of feedback? Makes no sense to me. Where you on the official forums near the end? There was no constructive criticism coming out of there anymore. It had devolved into a cesspool of hate and bile. Much better to nuke that disaster than try to get any reasonable criticism from it. I was there and thats the biggest reason why I am so surprised to see people say "MEA sux, ME1-3 was the greatest" because the other ME games were the most hated games EVER if you looked at the BW forums. Thread after thread of hate against the Devs, the writing, the bugs, the gameplay, etc. I mean EVERYTHING was hated. .
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 16, 2017 2:37:38 GMT
Rule #1 of being a Bioware fan: The most recent game killed Bioware/ ruined its series. The game behind that was flawed, but still pretty good. The game behind that was an underappreciated masterpiece. And anything behind that is solid gold.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 2:41:04 GMT
Where you on the official forums near the end? There was no constructive criticism coming out of there anymore. It had devolved into a cesspool of hate and bile. Much better to nuke that disaster than try to get any reasonable criticism from it. I was there and thats the biggest reason why I am so surprised to see people say "MEA sux, ME1-3 was the greatest" because the other ME games were the most hated games EVER if you looked at the BW forums. Thread after thread of hate against the Devs, the writing, the bugs, the gameplay, etc. I mean EVERYTHING was hated. . I was there too. The hypocrites and bandwagon jumpers here are very strong.
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Post by doch on Apr 16, 2017 2:43:38 GMT
He sounds pretty stubborn and defensive - I don't think they were expecting the backlash and were caught off guard - which is kind of delusional considering, at the very least, the bugs. I think it just boils down to a lack of a consistent vision from the top down that Casey had for the trilogy. I read somewhere that they took a lot of breaks and played a lot, during that five years. How long did each of the other games take to make?
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Post by laxian on Apr 16, 2017 2:56:22 GMT
Me1 already fullfilled the promise of ME1 if you want a spiritual sucessor, it's fine, but you ruined it with the tedious and boring exploration and fetch quests, seriously. Indead streamlining it would have helped here IMHO (especially since the main quest could have probably been longer if there had been less resources spent on those open and despite often being gorgeous: Fairly empty planet surfaces (also: Exploration is NOT rewarded, there's no one of kind things to find or special people you'll only find if you look for them etc. ) I'd have also prefered more companions (especially ones that aren't close in bruisers...come on Liam is close in (his choice of melee weapons says it all especially since he also has HAVOC-STRIKE!), Drak is close in (shotgun! blood-rage etc.), Cora (vanguard, shotgun (!)) and even the others aren't really keeping their distance -.-) over empty planets I also agree on ME1 - as long as you disregard tedious driving stuff (luckily there's a savegame-editor for that!) it's a damned good game (and it has IMHO aged well enough!) greetings LAX
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 16, 2017 3:22:27 GMT
I hope when he says it is "hard" to swallow some of those criticism, he is not talking about the no.1 criticism which is the facial animation and doll eyes. Because however "hard" it is for him read those criticism, it is infinitely harder for others to watch them. Without the abysmal animations, I am sure the reviews will be much better. I do find that ME:A is pretty similar to ME:1 and gameplay is darn fun; especially after I set the option "Helmets on all the time". Dialogue's and polish needs more work but the starting 3 hours of the game where there are so many dialogues with those horrible facial animation is why ME:A is being received so negatively imo.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Apr 16, 2017 3:49:30 GMT
"For example, we used to rely heavily on our forums, but now we've got several channels of information coming in. You just get a much larger pool, because when you're limiting it to one channel or two, it self-selects to an extent. You're only going to get feedback from people who'll take the time to become a member of that forum, or what have you. It's been nice having a broad assortment of people give us feedback – good and bad – through channels like Twitter and Facebook." Im sorry what? So what Im getting from this, is they got rid of the forums because they were relying too heavily on it for feedback? Ok...um wouldn't it make more sense to just also be more active on twitter, facebook, reddit etc then? Instead you completely nuke your offical fan forums because you want a larger pool of feedback? Makes no sense to me. Where you on the official forums near the end? There was no constructive criticism coming out of there anymore. It had devolved into a cesspool of hate and bile. Much better to nuke that disaster than try to get any reasonable criticism from it. And youtube or twitter are different? facebook? really? I think not, outside of this forum things are much worse because there is no real platform to debate ideias like this place.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 16, 2017 4:31:34 GMT
Yeah as bad as the old forums used to get, YouTube was easily dominant in the shitshow game. Gandhi would come back from the dead to scarf down a pastrami sandwich before you got real constructive feedback from commenters on that site.
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Post by mordivier on Apr 16, 2017 9:04:59 GMT
I browsed the old Bioware forums. Yeah. There were people who were toxic, but a good and large chunk of the fanbase were not. They loved the game. They gave actual, constructive criticism. It is simply not a sound business strategy to nuke the largest avenue of feedback you could possibly have.
It does show one thing though; Bioware got burned by the ME3 ending debacle. Hard. One could argue their reputation got permanently damaged by it. As far as I could tell(perhaps its just bias on my part) the whole "toxicity" thing really started from that point.
The ME3 extended cut was released(at least in my opinion) because of criticism. The forums were shuttered because of criticism.
Nothing really more to be said about it.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 16, 2017 10:25:29 GMT
The fact that Fraser's main source of interaction with the "fans" is Twitter, shows you how pathetic they have become. You really think the best form of feedback is in 140 characters? Smh. In fairness, Ian has popped in and asked for feedback here.
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Post by brandoftime on Apr 16, 2017 13:23:14 GMT
The fact that Fraser's main source of interaction with the "fans" is Twitter, shows you how pathetic they have become. You really think the best form of feedback is in 140 characters? Smh. In fairness, Ian has popped in and asked for feedback here. Then he and other devs should see, that this is not a toxic environment. Passionate, yeah, but as far as I can see after several months, not toxic. Twitter is kind of short attention span, they can read it and move on. They might not want all the debates and stuff that happens here. Having read the interview, I hope the franchise is going to be continued, not go the way of Deus Ex.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 16, 2017 14:16:57 GMT
Where you on the official forums near the end? There was no constructive criticism coming out of there anymore. It had devolved into a cesspool of hate and bile. Much better to nuke that disaster than try to get any reasonable criticism from it. I was there and thats the biggest reason why I am so surprised to see people say "MEA sux, ME1-3 was the greatest" because the other ME games were the most hated games EVER if you looked at the BW forums. Thread after thread of hate against the Devs, the writing, the bugs, the gameplay, etc. I mean EVERYTHING was hated. . It's because ME1 introduced features that ticked off KOTOR fans. ME2 changed things that turned off ME1 fans and ME3, which is where I felt it, also introduced things that turned off an ME1/2 fan like me, so each game had its own hatebase that just wanted the series to be more like the former entry.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 16, 2017 14:30:46 GMT
In fairness, Ian has popped in and asked for feedback here. Then he and other devs should see, that this is not a toxic environment. Passionate, yeah, but as far as I can see after several months, not toxic. Twitter is kind of short attention span, they can read it and move on. They might not want all the debates and stuff that happens here. Having read the interview, I hope the franchise is going to be continued, not go the way of Deus Ex. You're whining about Ian gathering feedback from here, and Twitter? Snowflakes.
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Post by doch on Apr 16, 2017 14:38:57 GMT
I wasn't here at the time, obviously. However, I thought each installment (ME 1, 2) when it came out, was awesome. So did many of my friends. I can't recall having a gripe about either one of them...and still don't. Many hours and play throughs of each. ME 3 I also enjoyed thoroughly up until the infamous ending. Played ME 3 MP for hundreds of hours and had a blast.
MEA, is well... I'm sure you know my opinion of it by now. There is a difference.
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Post by duckley on Apr 16, 2017 14:52:31 GMT
I personally like the game - and consider it a solidly good game -
I wonder if the negative reviews are influenced by reviewers and players that were expecting ME:4 but who got ME:A. Sure the graphic stuff is a big bomb and the apparent glitches (I haven't come across any glitches so can speak to that) are an issue, but in most of the reviews I have read it is the comparisons to the ME series that strike me as the biggest complaint.
If this game was a stand alone new series would it have gotten the same level of criticism? I have played Zero Dawn and although it lacks a CC and multiplayer and is not as big as Andromeda, I don't think it's that much better than ME:A. Just my 2 cents.....
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Post by duckley on Apr 16, 2017 15:04:31 GMT
I didn't know anyone from BW read this forum, just assumed they didn't I guess. Without knowing what they were asking about still doesn't really change my opinion. Shutting down your own forums isn't exactly a sign you want feedback. /shrug If anything, it's a sign of the opposite. Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram, are really not effective platforms to gather feedback. Actually - if they read the comments on any of these social media outlets then I would say they may be more effective than reviewing posts in these forums. They force us to make our r critiques, game requests short, sweet, clear and to the point. For Bioware/EA to read through volumes doesn't make sense for them IMO, if they are sincere in wanting feedback. Having said that the forums, the posts, the conversations, the diverse opinions, the game support and help is terrific for us fans and would-be fans. This forum in particular is waaaaayyyyy better than the previous one in that it seems to have attracted a more respectful crowd. The previous BIoware forum had become pretty nastyIMO.
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Post by Sondergaard on Apr 16, 2017 15:10:54 GMT
Then he and other devs should see, that this is not a toxic environment. Passionate, yeah, but as far as I can see after several months, not toxic. Twitter is kind of short attention span, they can read it and move on. They might not want all the debates and stuff that happens here. Having read the interview, I hope the franchise is going to be continued, not go the way of Deus Ex. You're whining about Ian gathering feedback from here, and Twitter? Snowflakes. He's not whining about anything. But, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to say so resort to drive-by insults hoping for an angry response so you can jump up and down being offended. Ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 15:18:58 GMT
Well, okay, but how does BioWare selects what to read on Twitter? Is it somehow hashtag related, or does Twitter has thematic areas, or do you have to be really forward and actually page the developers by name? I know, sometimes I get e-mails with sort of either FB or Twitter stuff, like "share your Nomad picture" but, erm, if that's not what I am interested in, how on earth do I use Twitter to express anything and indicate that it's Andromeda related?
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 16, 2017 15:32:58 GMT
Reading this interview make me realize just how much they failed to deliver their vision. But what I really doesn't understand is stuff like this:
"Then we looked at that idea of player choice, and giving them the ability to make a really unique character. We said, 'Well we're not doing Shepard, or Paragon-Renegade,' but we wanted to have another system that would let players do that. That's where the tone system came in, and the profile system to create the combat character you want to be."
For me, this is exactly the opposite of what happened. I felt more restricted with Ryder than I did with Shepard in ME1 and ME2, maybe even ME3. There were often times that I couldn't do what I wanted, that I had to be friends with someone that I didn't care for, times that I couldn't explain myself, etc.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 16, 2017 15:37:46 GMT
Me1 already fullfilled the promise of ME1 if you want a spiritual sucessor, it's fine, but you ruined it with the tedious and boring exploration and fetch quests, seriously. I think this is a part of why myself and some others feel so "meh" about MEA. ME1 already succeeded at being ME1. There wasn't really any need to recycle that. MEA should have had its own promises to fulfill. It was doomed from the start if the goal was to out ME1, ME1. Not gonna happen.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 16, 2017 16:49:48 GMT
My perspective on bioware shutting down their own forums: personally it's the most "unbioware" thing they could've done. Why? Because if you seriously look into how often they responded to feedback you'd legitimately see they do so better than various other devs, and because of that it's why I liked them better than most devs as it was a huge fan service. Removing their forums just dropped that chances. I could care less of the toxicity those forums had as its bioware taking the easy road while handicapping us if you ask me, plus it's their jobs to deal with people that are jackasses whether they like it or not. Fuck it if I'm going to get on twitter where I'm unable to put paragraphs of feedback to them, fuck it if I'm going to go to reddit where you get nothing but downvoted for speaking anything at all negatively about their games (why I've always disapproved of forums using the like/dislike systems as people will try to use that to their advantage "oh more people "like" what I say over you" lol please.
Seriously though, I viewed that event as a serious negative to bioware, they just limited us overall on how we can give feedback, and ultimately I think they seriously underestimated how much people cared about the old forums being how people took it upon themselves to start up these fan forums and you had people promoting them to keep it up.
As for them using ME1 as their baseline for Andromeda: there's nothing wrong with them using that game as a base, but I feel they copy and pasted so much from that game into this one. The tempest can be argued as the Normandy 3.0, the nexus as the citadel 2.0, and the list can go on as I see in many threads where people have referenced Andromeda copying ME1. I myself can agree to an extent, as one poster said, Andromeda is trying to out-do ME1 rather than trying to be its own game to separate it from ME1. I applaud them for trying to implement a crafting system, trying to add in an actual inventory system, making exploration a part of mass effect again since 2+3 removed it, but they fell short on those. They're so disorganized, implemented incorrectly where one can question why even bother if you won't do it correctly? I loved Andromedas ideal concept and what bioware was wanting the goal to be, as the original view of Andromeda to me was taking mass effect back to its original roots that 2+3 went away from, but because of the shortcomings it invites a lot of criticism which we all know the game has recieved. Had it done things right, I think things could've gone better and the game would've been accepted easier. I'm hoping and I'm optimistic the sequal should only get better, this new group now has a full game under their belt, they've now good an understanding of the frost bite 3 engine and the next gen consoles and they've now got feedback on what we like and dislike. Hopefully that can all add up to the next being better and maybe the next game won't have people leaving mid project resulting in a smoother transition. I don't want them to abandon their baseline as this game even though it's flawed, has a hell of a foundation set in place.
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