roseofquartz
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 504 Likes: 948
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Mar 14, 2017 11:50:54 GMT
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roseofquartz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 18, 2017 16:40:09 GMT
He sounds pretty stubborn and defensive - I don't think they were expecting the backlash and were caught off guard - which is kind of delusional considering, at the very least, the bugs. I think it just boils down to a lack of a consistent vision from the top down that Casey had for the trilogy. I gotta agree with you, which is surprising when you take a step back and look at Andromeda. You can see it kind of clearly in the marketing to be honest, they didn't have very much focus on the overarching story or plot. Like they know if they tried to show that off, it would raise too many questions on its own. I was confused who I was supposed to be fighting or why or how I was supposed to feel about the whole thing. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the hell out of Andromeda. I thought it was fun, I still think it's fun, that doesn't mean I don't see some issues with it. Characters are great and combat is a lot more fun then I thought it was going to be. And although I enjoyed the premise of the story, it seemed to lack direction. Almost as if they seemed as confused as I did about the whole thing. Maybe they were hoping the characters and loyalty missions, sort of open world planets, etc. would distract people from it? I'm also someone maintaining that I think some people are being too hard on Bioware. Hating for the sake of hating. But, tbh, compared to Inquisition, this does not feel like a finished game should. That being said, I also remembering ME3 feeling like that as well after the Cerberus Coup attempt. Like they (and we) were being rushed. |
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zan
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: RandomNoob_00
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zan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zan on Apr 18, 2017 17:28:15 GMT
Re: Forums.
Forums WERE toxic and were especially toxic between ME3 and the shutdown. What did they expect? The inter-game several years of wait when people have nothing to talk about other than the latest installment of the game which had an awful ending will result in people talking about that crappy ending non stop - there is really not much else to talk to other than ME3MP, but several years after release that gets stale too.
Shutting the forums down did not reduce toxicity, it spilled it into different formats and made people bitter not only about the game but also about community management. Forums WERE a valuable feedback tool. If BW thinks that animation memes being all over the other modes of communications is any less damaging than containing them to a single forum, they are mistaken.
Re: MEA
I think part of the problem is how hard they tried to make a new game while keeping things as close to MET as possible. People have bad taste from AI/organic confrontation, don't need to drag it on. Some things like Cerberus with their infinite money hack got annoying in MET, why do we have Benefactor(s), (who might or might not be Cerberus) with unlimited funds again? Do we really need an asari scientist on every team? Do first human squadmates have to be annoying? Can we get away from scattering a myriad of harvesting/picking-up/opening nodes? Can Frostbite 3 be used to make a decent character creator (DAI vanilla was slammed for the character creator, did they really need to make MEA's one WORSE?). Anyway, I am sliding into a rant. The game is overall acceptable, they just really need to think through some of the mechanics instead of blinding copying them from either MET or DA franchise.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,299 Likes: 50,675
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Apr 18, 2017 17:33:29 GMT
Re: Forums. Forums WERE toxic and were especially toxic between ME3 and the shutdown. What did they expect? The inter-game several years of wait when people have nothing to talk about other than the latest installment of the game which had an awful ending will result in people talking about that crappy ending non stop - there is really not much else to talk to other than ME3MP, but several years after release that gets stale too. Shutting the forums down did not reduce toxicity, it spilled it into different formats and made people bitter not only about the game but also about community management. Forums WERE a valuable feedback tool. If BW thinks that animation memes being all over the other modes of communications is any less damaging than containing them to a single forum, they are mistaken. Re: MEA I think part of the problem is how hard they tried to make a new game while keeping things as close to MET as possible. People have bad taste from AI/organic confrontation, don't need to drag it on. Some things like Cerberus with their infinite money hack got annoying in MET, why do we have Benefactor(s), (who might or might not be Cerberus) with unlimited funds again? Do we really need an asari scientist on every team? Do first human squadmates have to be annoying? Can we get away from scattering a myriad of harvesting/picking-up/opening nodes? Can Frostbite 3 be used to make a decent character creator (DAI vanilla was slammed for the character creator, did they really need to make MEA's one WORSE?). Anyway, I am sliding into a rant. The game is overall acceptable, they just really need to think through some of the mechanics instead of blinding copying them from either MET or DA franchise. Shutting down the old forum was taking the mess in their own backyard and dumping it over the fence to the neighbors. |
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zan
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: RandomNoob_00
Posts: 118 Likes: 207
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zan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zan on Apr 18, 2017 17:37:08 GMT
Re: Forums. Forums WERE toxic and were especially toxic between ME3 and the shutdown. What did they expect? The inter-game several years of wait when people have nothing to talk about other than the latest installment of the game which had an awful ending will result in people talking about that crappy ending non stop - there is really not much else to talk to other than ME3MP, but several years after release that gets stale too. Shutting the forums down did not reduce toxicity, it spilled it into different formats and made people bitter not only about the game but also about community management. Forums WERE a valuable feedback tool. If BW thinks that animation memes being all over the other modes of communications is any less damaging than containing them to a single forum, they are mistaken. Re: MEA I think part of the problem is how hard they tried to make a new game while keeping things as close to MET as possible. People have bad taste from AI/organic confrontation, don't need to drag it on. Some things like Cerberus with their infinite money hack got annoying in MET, why do we have Benefactor(s), (who might or might not be Cerberus) with unlimited funds again? Do we really need an asari scientist on every team? Do first human squadmates have to be annoying? Can we get away from scattering a myriad of harvesting/picking-up/opening nodes? Can Frostbite 3 be used to make a decent character creator (DAI vanilla was slammed for the character creator, did they really need to make MEA's one WORSE?). Anyway, I am sliding into a rant. The game is overall acceptable, they just really need to think through some of the mechanics instead of blinding copying them from either MET or DA franchise. Shutting down the old forum was taking the mess in their own backyard and dumping it over the fence to the neighbors. More like tossing it through a fan. Sure they no longer have a pile but they have pissed off customers, and the crap is all over the place now. |
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abedsbrother
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Abedsbrother
XBL Gamertag: DonDiego256
Posts: 442 Likes: 992
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abedsbrother
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by abedsbrother on Apr 18, 2017 22:57:10 GMT
Cerberus' direction changed so much because of fan response iirc. I remember so much speculation and interest in elaborating on them in the ME1 forums, then ME2 happened. Then people overwhelmingly hated being forced to work for them, leading to the cartoonish ME3 Cerberus. Well, Cerberus was also Mac's pet project that he has said he wanted to do more with in ME1, so I think as soon as he had control of the story he didn't waste any time bringing them front and centre. That explains why Drew Karpyshyn put them front and center of ME 2 and two of his Mass Effect novels, Ascension from 2008 (which happens after the events of ME1) and Retribution from 2010 (which happens after the events of ME2, but before the Arrival DLC). Retribution also introduces and prominently features Kai Leng, who was Karpyshyn's creation. (If you haven't read Retribution, you should, just so you can read about Kai Leng getting his ass seriously kicked by Anderson .) This isn't a defense of Walters per se. I just find it hard to blame him for Cerberus when ME3 utilized previously established Cerberus lore, and didn't really introduce anything new regarding Cerberus. I'd agree you shouldn't have to read the novels for the games to make sense, but if you don't, Cerberus does seem to come out nowhere to be this gigantic organization with many connections. The reality is that Karpyshyn had established Cerberus' connections and reach four years before ME3 launched. (Curious why Tali and the Quarians distrust Cerberus at the start of ME2? Read ME Ascension.) It's also a common - trope, method, whatever it's called - to have a new-found friend of the second act (who is going to help you with the mission defined in the first act) turn out to be a villain in the third act. Maybe the mistake was forcing Mass Effect, with its choice-based reputation, into this structure. But somebody like TIM was (probably) always going to be the villain of ME3. The OT was conceived as a trilogy after all. |
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xaijin
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Post by xaijin on Apr 18, 2017 23:58:49 GMT
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Post by laughingbanana on Apr 19, 2017 4:42:42 GMT
Well, whatever people will say about how sucky Andromeda is and how big his role in that sucky-ness, one thing I really do appreciate for him is he actually responded to my Tweet highlighting a certain issue that affect me in the game with a "Really sorry for this, we are trying our best" talk. A small gesture, but very nice nonetheless, especially considering that I rarely use Twitter to begin with so basically I have no followers whatsoever.
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Post by kaistormer on Apr 19, 2017 7:06:46 GMT
Forums are great for discussion and feedback, while FB and twitter are great for promotion and PR. I think it's safe to say what they were really interested in at the time. What I find the most interesting about this interview is how badly prepared Mr. Frazier appears to be. He is a lead designer in a more or less scripted interview and yet he still manages to make such a silly statement about shutting down a forum to get better/more feedback. In a way, it reinforces the perception of bad management even more. But, then again, we're all human and it could be just a simple mistake.  |
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edisnooM
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 31 Likes: 47
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edisnoom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by edisnooM on Apr 20, 2017 1:55:15 GMT
Well, Cerberus was also Mac's pet project that he has said he wanted to do more with in ME1, so I think as soon as he had control of the story he didn't waste any time bringing them front and centre. That explains why Drew Karpyshyn put them front and center of ME 2 and two of his Mass Effect novels, Ascension from 2008 (which happens after the events of ME1) and Retribution from 2010 (which happens after the events of ME2, but before the Arrival DLC). Retribution also introduces and prominently features Kai Leng, who was Karpyshyn's creation. (If you haven't read Retribution, you should, just so you can read about Kai Leng getting his ass seriously kicked by Anderson .) This isn't a defense of Walters per se. I just find it hard to blame him for Cerberus when ME3 utilized previously established Cerberus lore, and didn't really introduce anything new regarding Cerberus. I'd agree you shouldn't have to read the novels for the games to make sense, but if you don't, Cerberus does seem to come out nowhere to be this gigantic organization with many connections. The reality is that Karpyshyn had established Cerberus' connections and reach four years before ME3 launched. (Curious why Tali and the Quarians distrust Cerberus at the start of ME2? Read ME Ascension.) It's also a common - trope, method, whatever it's called - to have a new-found friend of the second act (who is going to help you with the mission defined in the first act) turn out to be a villain in the third act. Maybe the mistake was forcing Mass Effect, with its choice-based reputation, into this structure. But somebody like TIM was (probably) always going to be the villain of ME3. The OT was conceived as a trilogy after all. I'm talking about Cerberus in ME2 not ME3, although that is another whole realm of ridiculousness. Mac has talked about how he came up with Cerberus in ME1 and that he wanted to do more with them but they couldn't fit it in, cue ME2 where his pet project is now central to the game (and Shepard can't say anything about all the stuff from ME1, not even a Sole Survivor). Drew is listed as a Lead Writer in ME2, and his dark energy plot was present, but he has said he bowed out early on, and Mac takes every opportunity to say that he was the Lead Writer for ME2, so I would say the Cerberus elements are on him. Also the books (as supporting media) would probably have been more likely to take plot cues from the game than the reverse. |
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