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Post by ayenari on Apr 18, 2017 22:43:54 GMT
The most obvious comparisons should be this vs Witcher 3 and Horizon. I havne't played HZD yet but I think Witcher 3 is better simply because its open world is better tailored around its narrative focus. Much better in fact. In Inquisition and Andromeda the "world building" in the open world areas is all window dressing. The visuals sell it and the rest is pretty static. It always impressed me how much detail went into Witcher 3's NPC systems so that you'll only see elves outside of the capital city in their ghettos but they don't just stand in place as in "HERE ARE THE OPPRESSED ELVES!", they're real NPCs that do daily routines but their behavior understands that they can't just move anywhere. Similarly I really liked how there's a theme of mages being hunted like witches inside the city so you'll often see "shady people" wearing robes with a cowl over their heads moving around in the city area alone. Those things are super neat. As for other things quest rewards in terms of gamification are kinda sucky both in Witcher and Andromeda but I feel like even the best story-driven quests in Andromeda shorten out right near the end. It feels like they skip past a proper wrapup while in Witcher 3 they always pay good attention to the exposition that starts the quest and the conversation that ends the quest where it's made very clear what the outcome is. A lot of the times like the saboteur on the Nexus it just ends like... "uh, so what happened afterwards?" and you can't know because there is no answer. The quest just stops. Its partly bioware that haven't left the last generation yet in terms of design and effort put into hub worlds causing this, imo. They still make small hub worlds like loading it all into memory at the same time is an issue despite not releasing the game on 360/ps3, rather than having an actual city in their game. The difference in size and scope between Novigrad and a bioware current gen one like Orlais, or in andromeda, Kadara or the Nexus is just ridiculous. |
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dm04
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dm04 on Apr 18, 2017 23:28:51 GMT
MEA is not an Open World game. (It is like there are SO many people complaining about now quick save during priority missions, just for your information, there is no q uick save in the whole game, going to menu and hitting save is "save" and not quick)
Open World games are NOT about the size of the world, it is about "you can go wherever you like, from the very beginning"... like the newest Zelda, if you like, you can go straight for teh End Boss and win the game, at level 1.
TES Oblivion, TES SKyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are also open world games, you can go wherever you like, whether you survived a deathclaw without proper equipment and few perks down your sleeves, is another story.
But MEA? There is just one planet open and you have to progress through the main story to access more, sure, at one point you can go wherever you like, but until then, it is restricted and linear. That is pretty much the opposite of open world.
You can revisit all of the open maps at a certain point of the game. You couldn't go anywhere and have access to the entire map/s for Witcher 3, Grand Theft auto 4, Red Dead Redemption, Horizon Zero Dawn until a certain point in the game. There are also linear sections in those games that you couldn't access again. Would you not consider those open world even when Witcher 3 have separated 5 maps? Zelda BOTW is only a certain type of open world Never said those were open world, OP said that, never going to buy PS4 so will nerver play Horizon Zero Dawn, RDD and GTA are not my type of game... and although I preordered Witcher 3, never played it, so no idea. Back to your post.. yes at certain point MEA becomes "open" in its world, but until then it is restricted and so by definition not open (if Witcher 3 is just like that, it is not open until "later" in the game). So lets agree MEA is closed world until quite late in the game, where it becomes open. Still got another problem with it... there is nothing to do once all missions are done. In Skyrim we get random quests and so tehre is always something to do, so it actualy feels like open world. And truth be told, right now I consider only Elite Dangerous as a true open world game. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 18, 2017 23:29:46 GMT
In those Glassdoor reviews I keep referring to, I also saw a couple talking about how the seniors at BioWare aren't welcoming of innovation and don't want to learn the ropes for newer tech or toolsets. As you say, they still use the same age-old, "tried and tested" methods and it's probably really scary to throw out the recipe for Coca-cola in hopes of redefining it better but sometimes you gotta do it when there's always good competition and a rapidly growing standard.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 19, 2017 1:38:35 GMT
The most obvious comparisons should be this vs Witcher 3 and Horizon. I havne't played HZD yet but I think Witcher 3 is better simply because its open world is better tailored around its narrative focus. Much better in fact. In Inquisition and Andromeda the "world building" in the open world areas is all window dressing. The visuals sell it and the rest is pretty static. It always impressed me how much detail went into Witcher 3's NPC systems so that you'll only see elves outside of the capital city in their ghettos but they don't just stand in place as in "HERE ARE THE OPPRESSED ELVES!", they're real NPCs that do daily routines but their behavior understands that they can't just move anywhere. Similarly I really liked how there's a theme of mages being hunted like witches inside the city so you'll often see "shady people" wearing robes with a cowl over their heads moving around in the city area alone. Those things are super neat. As for other things quest rewards in terms of gamification are kinda sucky both in Witcher and Andromeda but I feel like even the best story-driven quests in Andromeda shorten out right near the end. It feels like they skip past a proper wrapup while in Witcher 3 they always pay good attention to the exposition that starts the quest and the conversation that ends the quest where it's made very clear what the outcome is. A lot of the times like the saboteur on the Nexus it just ends like... "uh, so what happened afterwards?" and you can't know because there is no answer. The quest just stops. Its partly bioware that haven't left the last generation yet in terms of design and effort put into hub worlds causing this, imo. They still make small hub worlds like loading it all into memory at the same time is an issue despite not releasing the game on 360/ps3, rather than having an actual city in their game. The difference in size and scope between Novigrad and a bioware current gen one like Orlais, or in andromeda, Kadara or the Nexus is just ridiculous. I was hoping the Nexus or Aya (just new it as angaraville before release) would have been the size of novigrad. They could have easily made the Nexus into a space city that looked like ilium. It novigrad scale |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 19, 2017 3:10:54 GMT
I'll go a little out on a limb here, and let me explain a bit before tossing me into the fire.  I think ME:A is one of the better "open world" style games I've played. The best one before that was Morrowind. Skyrim was good, but got a bit old fast, Fallout 4 was quite fun, especially on the new Survival mode, but the relative lack of a solid main plot dragged that game down for me. TW3 was good, for about 5 hours. Then the combat got repetitive and dull, and I just didn't like the gameplay AT ALL. I'm sure I missed out on a bunch of good story stuff...but meh. I'll live. ME:A shouldn't be compared to the original trilogy, in my opinion. It invariably will, but it is its own game, and should be judged as such. The theme of exploration and finding out how to survive in this new galaxy fit the "open world" style better than most games that have tried it (that I've played.) Scanning rocks and other things, taken out of context, could be seen to be boring, and I can understand that. But to me, it fit with the whole exploration theme, learning about our new "home" and figuring out how to survive here. Not the most stimulating side content, I'll agree, but it fit into the whole "theme" of the game. Most of the other tasks tied into that same idea quite well, too, either through world building or giving context to events before we arrived, or personalizing the "faceless" NPCs who tried to make a go at surviving here before the Hyperion arrived. That all being said, while I feel ME:A did a pretty damned good job of tying all of the side content into the exploration theme, I do think the main story arc was a bit too disjointed. People have said that the main arc was too short, but I disagree. Setting up the various outposts and getting them up and running well (viability) was a large part of the main arc, but the Archon/Meridian portion of the main arc felt just that bit too disconnected from the rest. I feel that tightening up the "open world" elements a bit, slightly smaller maps with maybe 30% fewer "filler" quests for a more fleshed out critical path and a few more "meatier" side missions, and a bit more crew/squad content would make any potential sequel quite a bit stronger as an "open world" game. ME:A did a great job in my opinion. Tighten things up a bit, and a sequel would be absolutely brilliant. |
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