roselavellan
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Post by roselavellan on Jul 13, 2017 2:32:00 GMT
So I don't think we can blame Bianca entirely for leaking it's location, since the genie was (probably) already out of the bottle. Well... even if we don't blame her for what happened with Corypheus, it still doesn't excuse her for being an obnoxiously hypocritical brat who thinks that causing Varric to suffer is her sole and exclusive right. (Sorry, just wanted to clarify that this is not a criticism of your point, Sifr, rather to say that, Corypheus aside, her attitude regarding Varric is absolutely galling.) Anyhoo... agree with Sutherland and I'd also add Fairbanks.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 14, 2017 6:30:03 GMT
Well... even if we don't blame her for what happened with Corypheus, it still doesn't excuse her for being an obnoxiously hypocritical brat who thinks that causing Varric to suffer is her sole and exclusive right. (Sorry, just wanted to clarify that this is not a criticism of your point, Sifr, rather to say that, Corypheus aside, her attitude regarding Varric is absolutely galling.) Anyhoo... agree with Sutherland and I'd also add Fairbanks. While I think Bianca deserves half the flack she gets from most quarters of the fandom, I do agree that their relationship is dysfunctional and extremely one-sided. (Long semi-defense of Bianca's character, as the victim of botching writing) I don't think that this is entirely her fault however. Bianca was pretty much forced into a loveless marriage by extremely conservative parents who didn't approve of Varric and even threatened to have him killed unless she complied. That Bianca attempted to flee one wedding ceremony makes it clear that she really didn't want to go through with the arrangement and only eventually consented to keep Varric safe and prevent the all-out clan war they nearly caused.
The main problem with Bianca's character is that they didn't exactly give us any reasons to be endeared to her in Inquisition.
Varric has been pining for her for years and is content to be relegated to being her bit on the side, but we never really get the sense that Bianca views the relationship the same way and with the same level of commitment. She's also presented as this genius smith who's being rumoured to become the first Surface Paragon, which unfortunately ticks off a few too many boxes on the Mary-Sue checklist. Then throw in her screw-up with leaking the Thaig's location to Corypheus, as well as her messing around with Red Lyrium despite Varric's warnings not too, which makes her come across as a tad arrogant.
Bianca refusing to take responsibility when called out on it by Varric, doesn't strike me as a mark against her character though. Most people who've screwed up badly tend to be defensive at first and attempt to rationalise the situation away, rather than own up and admit to their mistake. Deep down Bianca knows she screwed up, having let her own curiosity and self-assurance (or arrogance) in her own abilities blind her to the danger that Varric was warning her about.
I never understood how people often seem to overblow Bianca's final line to the Inquisitor as a "threat" though. The line itself is merely a warning to not let Varric come to harm and said out of concern for his well-being, so I don't know why people view it as being serious?
Maybe it's because it wasn't said in the light-hearted manner that those sorts of threats usually are issued in, although given that Bianca had just been chewed out by Varric seconds earlier, she's not going to be in the best of moods in that moment. She's likely venting her frustration and/or coming across as more sharp than she intended, something that most people tend to do following an argument they've been on the receiving end of.
(Although it could merely be a rare misstep by Laura Bailey on how she delivered of that line?)
I think that the writers of Inquisition botched her character a little bit. They didn't give us enough time with her, paint her in a good enough light to show why Varric would be so enamoured with her. Having Bianca show up somewhere like the Winter Palace as a guest or hanging out at Skyhold for a period of time (maybe as a war-table chain giver) might have gone some way to giving us more reasons to like (or hate) her.
Bianca and Hawke were the two characters with the most experience dealing with Red Lyrium and Corypheus besides Varric, so it made zero sense why they didn't stay or do more to help the Inquisition. With how much Varric needed cheering up later in the game, he could definitely have used some friendly faces in Skyhold. Agree with Sutherland and Fairbanks. Wish that they'd given Fairbanks and the Emerald Graves more plot relevancy though, you'd have thought with all the Robin Hood allusions, they'd have made him a Jenny or something? Could have given Sera some more content, because she doesn't really have anything plot relevant to do in DAI either.
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 14, 2017 16:01:32 GMT
Well... even if we don't blame her for what happened with Corypheus, it still doesn't excuse her for being an obnoxiously hypocritical brat who thinks that causing Varric to suffer is her sole and exclusive right. (Sorry, just wanted to clarify that this is not a criticism of your point, Sifr, rather to say that, Corypheus aside, her attitude regarding Varric is absolutely galling.) Anyhoo... agree with Sutherland and I'd also add Fairbanks. While I think Bianca deserves half the flack she gets from most quarters of the fandom, I do agree that their relationship is dysfunctional and extremely one-sided. (Long semi-defense of Bianca's character, as the victim of botching writing) I don't think that this is entirely her fault however. Bianca was pretty much forced into a loveless marriage by extremely conservative parents who didn't approve of Varric and even threatened to have him killed unless she complied. That Bianca attempted to flee one wedding ceremony makes it clear that she really didn't want to go through with the arrangement and only eventually consented to keep Varric safe and prevent the all-out clan war they nearly caused.
The main problem with Bianca's character is that they didn't exactly give us any reasons to be endeared to her in Inquisition.
Varric has been pining for her for years and is content to be relegated to being her bit on the side, but we never really get the sense that Bianca views the relationship the same way and with the same level of commitment(1). She's also presented as this genius smith who's being rumoured to become the first Surface Paragon, which unfortunately ticks off a few too many boxes on the Mary-Sue checklist(2). Then throw in her screw-up with leaking the Thaig's location to Corypheus, as well as her messing around with Red Lyrium despite Varric's warnings not too, which makes her come across as a tad arrogant.
Bianca refusing to take responsibility when called out on it by Varric, doesn't strike me as a mark against her character though. Most people who've screwed up badly tend to be defensive at first and attempt to rationalise the situation away, rather than own up and admit to their mistake. Deep down Bianca knows she screwed up, having let her own curiosity and self-assurance (or arrogance) in her own abilities blind her to the danger that Varric was warning her about.
I never understood how people often seem to overblow Bianca's final line to the Inquisitor as a "threat" though. The line itself is merely a warning to not let Varric come to harm and said out of concern for his well-being, so I don't know why people view it as being serious?
Maybe it's because it wasn't said in the light-hearted manner that those sorts of threats usually are issued in, although given that Bianca had just been chewed out by Varric seconds earlier, she's not going to be in the best of moods in that moment. She's likely venting her frustration and/or coming across as more sharp than she intended, something that most people tend to do following an argument they've been on the receiving end of(3).
(Although it could merely be a rare misstep by Laura Bailey on how she delivered of that line?)
I think that the writers of Inquisition botched her character a little bit. They didn't give us enough time with her, paint her in a good enough light to show why Varric would be so enamoured with her. Having Bianca show up somewhere like the Winter Palace as a guest or hanging out at Skyhold for a period of time (maybe as a war-table chain giver) might have gone some way to giving us more reasons to like (or hate) her.
Bianca and Hawke were the two characters with the most experience dealing with Red Lyrium and Corypheus besides Varric, so it made zero sense why they didn't stay or do more to help the Inquisition. With how much Varric needed cheering up later in the game, he could definitely have used some friendly faces in Skyhold. Agree with Sutherland and Fairbanks. Wish that they'd given Fairbanks and the Emerald Graves more plot relevancy though, you'd have thought with all the Robin Hood allusions, they'd have made him a Jenny or something? Could have given Sera some more content, because she doesn't really have anything plot relevant to do in DAI either. (1) Varric has a bad habit of taking "write who you know" a little too close to heart. Since most of his stories favor the noir style, I think it makes perfect sense to pine for a woman completely wrong for him. (2) Only Varric brings up these "rumors", and he's hardly unbiased. Not what I would call Mary Sue shilling. (3) I think it had more to do with the fact that the writers didn't allow the player respond to Bianca's threat, rather than the threat itself. That moment could have been Sueish, or the possible responses could have been cut to maintain the word budget. Either way, some players take the PC Power Fantasy way too seriously, and can't handle not being to crush anyone who doesn't worship them. Myself, I think if they were going to have Bianca threaten the Inquisitor at all, we should have been able to respond several ways; say we and Varric already watch each other's back as trusted friends, flippantly brush her off, issue a viscous warning of our own, or outright attack. And accept the appropriate consequences from Varric .
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roselavellan
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Post by roselavellan on Jul 14, 2017 16:37:18 GMT
While I think Bianca deserves half the flack she gets from most quarters of the fandom, I do agree that their relationship is dysfunctional and extremely one-sided. (Long semi-defense of Bianca's character, as the victim of botching writing) I don't think that this is entirely her fault however. Bianca was pretty much forced into a loveless marriage by extremely conservative parents who didn't approve of Varric and even threatened to have him killed unless she complied. That Bianca attempted to flee one wedding ceremony makes it clear that she really didn't want to go through with the arrangement and only eventually consented to keep Varric safe and prevent the all-out clan war they nearly caused.
The main problem with Bianca's character is that they didn't exactly give us any reasons to be endeared to her in Inquisition.
Varric has been pining for her for years and is content to be relegated to being her bit on the side, but we never really get the sense that Bianca views the relationship the same way and with the same level of commitment. She's also presented as this genius smith who's being rumoured to become the first Surface Paragon, which unfortunately ticks off a few too many boxes on the Mary-Sue checklist. Then throw in her screw-up with leaking the Thaig's location to Corypheus, as well as her messing around with Red Lyrium despite Varric's warnings not too, which makes her come across as a tad arrogant.
Bianca refusing to take responsibility when called out on it by Varric, doesn't strike me as a mark against her character though. Most people who've screwed up badly tend to be defensive at first and attempt to rationalise the situation away, rather than own up and admit to their mistake. Deep down Bianca knows she screwed up, having let her own curiosity and self-assurance (or arrogance) in her own abilities blind her to the danger that Varric was warning her about.
I never understood how people often seem to overblow Bianca's final line to the Inquisitor as a "threat" though. The line itself is merely a warning to not let Varric come to harm and said out of concern for his well-being, so I don't know why people view it as being serious?
Maybe it's because it wasn't said in the light-hearted manner that those sorts of threats usually are issued in, although given that Bianca had just been chewed out by Varric seconds earlier, she's not going to be in the best of moods in that moment. She's likely venting her frustration and/or coming across as more sharp than she intended, something that most people tend to do following an argument they've been on the receiving end of.
(Although it could merely be a rare misstep by Laura Bailey on how she delivered of that line?)
I think that the writers of Inquisition botched her character a little bit. They didn't give us enough time with her, paint her in a good enough light to show why Varric would be so enamoured with her. Having Bianca show up somewhere like the Winter Palace as a guest or hanging out at Skyhold for a period of time (maybe as a war-table chain giver) might have gone some way to giving us more reasons to like (or hate) her.
Bianca and Hawke were the two characters with the most experience dealing with Red Lyrium and Corypheus besides Varric, so it made zero sense why they didn't stay or do more to help the Inquisition. With how much Varric needed cheering up later in the game, he could definitely have used some friendly faces in Skyhold. Agree with Sutherland and Fairbanks. Wish that they'd given Fairbanks and the Emerald Graves more plot relevancy though, you'd have thought with all the Robin Hood allusions, they'd have made him a Jenny or something? Could have given Sera some more content, because she doesn't really have anything plot relevant to do in DAI either. I actually don't have much of a problem with her mistake, or her reaction to her mistake. I understand people get defensive, and while the mature thing would be to swallow one's pride and apologise, I accept that she saw her mistake and tried to correct it. With Varric, though, the situation is different. I agree we haven't seen enough of Bianca to form an in-depth opinion of her, yet we can see her attitude to their relationship. I think she does care about Varric in her own way, but (you're right, their relationship is extremely dysfunctional and one-sided) not to the same extent as his feelings for her. She's happy to have him as her bit on the side, although she knows how much pain that causes him. That's pretty selfish. Oh, and don't forget the assassins that her own family sends after him - because of her. So that's what grates on me, that she, of all people, feels it appropriate to threaten the Inquisitor about Varric's welfare. And yes, it's a threat. Telling someone you will feed them their eyeballs is a threat of violence. I can't imagine how else it is supposed to be interpreted - by the writers or by her VA. It might be botchy writing in that they shouldn't have made her say it, or perhaps they really did mean for her to be that inappropriate. I mean, there are people like that in real life; smart, selfish and entitled - so this negative portrayal of Bianca isn't unrealistic.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 15, 2017 8:58:24 GMT
(2) Only Varric brings up these "rumors", and he's hardly unbiased. Not what I would call Mary Sue shilling. (3) I think it had more to do with the fact that the writers didn't allow the player respond to Bianca's threat, rather than the threat itself. That moment could have been Sueish, or the possible responses could have been cut to maintain the word budget. Either way, some players take the PC Power Fantasy way too seriously, and can't handle not being to crush anyone who doesn't worship them. (2) Well, I wasn't accusing Bianca of being a Sue (nor do I think that), only that the writers do sometimes veer close to that territory at times. There's nothing wrong with writing a character who's brilliant, but the audience needs to see some evidence of their genius in action rather than simply being told how intelligent they are. Varric is definitely a biased source when it comes to this information, however World of Thedas Vol 2 backs it up by stating that Bianca has invented a revolutionary type of seed drill, spinning frame and thresher which have become the standard across most of Thedas. The rumours of her being put forth by the Assembly as a prospective Paragon are also somewhat true according to WOT. I do like Bianca, but I can definitely see there are problems with how they went about introducing her character in DAI. I'd like to see her come back again in the franchise, giving us more characterisation from her and letting them hammer out some of the kinks from last time. Like maybe reveal that she's been pining for Varric just as much, but was trying her best to mask it in Inquisition? Or that she throws herself into her work because she's so unhappy with her loveless marriage to Bogdan? Maybe reveal that she's got all of Varric's books in her workspace, even the terrible romance ones? Moments like that would present her as far more fallible and (for lack of a better word) human. (3) Yeah, I think that's the most likely explanation for most fan dislike, that Bianca is one of the few characters in the game who had the audacity to snap at the Inquisitor and "get away with it". But people are supposed to love our characters without exception, right?! Like that guy in the Exalted Plains who wrote that he "never thought much of the Hero of Ferelden"... how dare he? Probably also accounts for the huge shift in opinion of Teagan when Trespasser rolled around. Ignoring the ungratefulness if we helped remove the Venatori from Redcliffe, it kinda stung that the awesome "Bann-hammer" from Origins who was an ally to our Warden, ended up as a complete curmudgeon who distrusted the Inquisitor.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 20, 2017 17:27:58 GMT
(3) Yeah, I think that's the most likely explanation for most fan dislike, that Bianca is one of the few characters in the game who had the audacity to snap at the Inquisitor and "get away with it". But people are supposed to love our characters without exception, right?! Like that guy in the Exalted Plains who wrote that he "never thought much of the Hero of Ferelden"... how dare he? Where in the Exalted Plains does this writer live and what is his name?
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Post by Sifr on Jul 21, 2017 12:03:50 GMT
Where in the Exalted Plains does this writer live and what is his name? It's heavily implied he was eaten by the Dragon in the Crow Fens.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 25, 2017 2:02:44 GMT
How about honorable mention to the weapons? Without them, the main character and companions could not defeat the baddies. So here's to you, sword and shield, bow, dual daggers, two-handed axe/maul/greatsword, and staves. Everyone give them a round of applause
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Post by XJlock on Jul 25, 2017 5:47:35 GMT
Mouse and Anora.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 3:23:35 GMT
Oghren Fenris Sten Isabela
can't remember more now.
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boxofscreaming
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 28, 2017 17:40:23 GMT
I like Bianca. She's kind of an arse and I can relate to that! I'd deck the Inquisitor too if anything bad happened to Varric.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jul 29, 2017 15:59:37 GMT
(2) Only Varric brings up these "rumors", and he's hardly unbiased. Not what I would call Mary Sue shilling. (3) I think it had more to do with the fact that the writers didn't allow the player respond to Bianca's threat, rather than the threat itself. That moment could have been Sueish, or the possible responses could have been cut to maintain the word budget. Either way, some players take the PC Power Fantasy way too seriously, and can't handle not being to crush anyone who doesn't worship them. (2) Well, I wasn't accusing Bianca of being a Sue (nor do I think that), only that the writers do sometimes veer close to that territory at times. There's nothing wrong with writing a character who's brilliant, but the audience needs to see some evidence of their genius in action rather than simply being told how intelligent they are. Varric is definitely a biased source when it comes to this information, however World of Thedas Vol 2 backs it up by stating that Bianca has invented a revolutionary type of seed drill, spinning frame and thresher which have become the standard across most of Thedas. The rumours of her being put forth by the Assembly as a prospective Paragon are also somewhat true according to WOT. I do like Bianca, but I can definitely see there are problems with how they went about introducing her character in DAI. I'd like to see her come back again in the franchise, giving us more characterisation from her and letting them hammer out some of the kinks from last time. Like maybe reveal that she's been pining for Varric just as much, but was trying her best to mask it in Inquisition? Or that she throws herself into her work because she's so unhappy with her loveless marriage to Bogdan? Maybe reveal that she's got all of Varric's books in her workspace, even the terrible romance ones? Moments like that would present her as far more fallible and (for lack of a better word) human. (3) Yeah, I think that's the most likely explanation for most fan dislike, that Bianca is one of the few characters in the game who had the audacity to snap at the Inquisitor and "get away with it". But people are supposed to love our characters without exception, right?! Like that guy in the Exalted Plains who wrote that he "never thought much of the Hero of Ferelden"... how dare he? Probably also accounts for the huge shift in opinion of Teagan when Trespasser rolled around. Ignoring the ungratefulness if we helped remove the Venatori from Redcliffe, it kinda stung that the awesome "Bann-hammer" from Origins who was an ally to our Warden, ended up as a complete curmudgeon who distrusted the Inquisitor.I am basically the only person in existence who thinks Tegan's reaction is totally normal. Because he does not know the Inquisitor, all he sees is the leader of a foreign military power occupying Ferelden Land 2 years after the crisis is over. he was fine with it during the crisis, because the Inquisition had a clear and obvious purposes. Two years later though? Everyone acts like he should be treating the Inquisitor like he's the god damn Hero of Ferelden. Spoiler Alert, their not. he has no personal relationship with this PC, He feels two years of occupation is adequate repayment for your help during the Crisis, and more importantly, you are headquartered in Orlaisan Territory, fully supported by the Ruler of Orlais. Ferelden isn't exactly over those multiple decades of occupation yet.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 29, 2017 16:32:00 GMT
I am basically the only person in existence who thinks Tegan's reaction is totally normal. Because he does not know the Inquisitor, all he sees is the leader of a foreign military power occupying Ferelden Land 2 years after the crisis is over. he was fine with it during the crisis, because the Inquisition had a clear and obvious purposes. Two years later though? Everyone acts like he should be treating the Inquisitor like he's the god damn Hero of Ferelden. Spoiler Alert, their not. he has no personal relationship with this PC, He feels two years of occupation is adequate repayment for your help during the Crisis, and more importantly, you are headquartered in Orlaisan Territory, fully supported by the Ruler of Orlais. Ferelden isn't exactly over those multiple decades of occupation yet. The trouble with Teagan is that he's still rude to you even if you try to be nice to him.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 30, 2017 8:23:45 GMT
I am basically the only person in existence who thinks Tegan's reaction is totally normal. Because he does not know the Inquisitor, all he sees is the leader of a foreign military power occupying Ferelden Land 2 years after the crisis is over. he was fine with it during the crisis, because the Inquisition had a clear and obvious purposes. Two years later though? Everyone acts like he should be treating the Inquisitor like he's the god damn Hero of Ferelden. Spoiler Alert, their not. he has no personal relationship with this PC, He feels two years of occupation is adequate repayment for your help during the Crisis, and more importantly, you are headquartered in Orlaisan Territory, fully supported by the Ruler of Orlais. Ferelden isn't exactly over those multiple decades of occupation yet. However if you sided with the mages, you are personally responsible for getting Teagan's home back, defeating the Venatori who usurped him, clearing the Rebels out of Redcliffe and saving Connor (if alive) from getting press-ganged into Corypheus' army. Teagan's response is a haughty letter demanding reparations for any and all damages caused by the Rebels caused while in Redcliffe. The Inquisitor can agree to pay these reparations or send people to help repair any damages, despite not technically being responsible for any of the Rebels actions prior to your alliance/conscription of them. I don't know about you, but I'd think giving someone their home back should earn slightly more gratitude than being given a bill for damages. (Granted, that's only on the mage path, but it's more than doing nothing for Redcliffe if you went with the Templars) It's true that Teagan doesn't have the same relationship with the Inquisitor as he had with the Hero of Ferelden (although the Warden can potentially kill Isolde, Connor and Alistair, as well as leave Redcliffe to the Undead, so maybe not a bad thing). Regardless, he can't deny that the Inquisitor helped bring a lot of stability, security and prosperity to Ferelden both during and after the crisis. For example, Teagan objects to the "occupation" of Caer Bronarch, all while seemingly ignoring that the Inquisition helped save Crestwood from the bandits harassing the town, who were using it as a stronghold. By securing the Keep and ensuring the roads were kept safe, the Inquisition helped encouraged traders back to Crestwood once more. The other example he can use is the Inquisition forces stationed in the Hinterlands. Teagan seems to have forgotten that prior to the Inquisition's arrival, the place had descended into an active warzone between Mages and Templars, bandits were roaming unchecked, dead bodies were pilled up on the sides of the roads, all while the refugees were starving and about to freeze to death. The Inquisition's efforts helped end most of the Mage-Templar fighting in the region, set up watchtowers, sealed rifts, as well as found food, medicine and supplies for displaced refugees, along with shelter and protection. As for the Inquisition being in "Orlesian" territory, that's always struck me as a petty excuse. Skyhold lies deep in the Frostbacks, somewhere you probably couldn't even find on a map, let alone know what side of the border you were on. Neither nation has much say, presence or dominion in that region... just ask the Avvar who actually "rules" them? We saw in Origins that Teagan was the first to speak against Loghain, so it's understandable why he'd be distrustful of the Inquisition. Using a crisis to take control while claiming noble intentions is how much despots start... but the difference he's seemed to have overlooked is that the Inquisition has actually put it's money where it's mouth is, but helping people regardless of their race, social status or nationality. I wish we'd had more dialogue with Teagan to flesh out his reasons for disliking the Inquisitor. On the mage path he could have seen this as siding with the people who forced him from his home (blaming the Rebels for "inviting" the Venatori). On the Templar side he might have seen it as siding with the same militants members of the order who had been threatening to raze Redcliffe for months (or the potential death of Connor at the hands of the Venatori or during the attack on Haven) It doesn't bother me that Teagan is antagonistic towards the Inquisitor, only that he seems to completely ignore all the good the Inquisition has done. Although he does have a point that the Inquisition's role in ending the Orlesian Civil War by playing Kingmaker (especially if allowing Celene's assassination to happen) does come across as rather shady.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 30, 2017 8:29:04 GMT
I am basically the only person in existence who thinks Tegan's reaction is totally normal. Because he does not know the Inquisitor, all he sees is the leader of a foreign military power occupying Ferelden Land 2 years after the crisis is over. he was fine with it during the crisis, because the Inquisition had a clear and obvious purposes. Two years later though? Everyone acts like he should be treating the Inquisitor like he's the god damn Hero of Ferelden. Spoiler Alert, their not. he has no personal relationship with this PC, He feels two years of occupation is adequate repayment for your help during the Crisis, and more importantly, you are headquartered in Orlaisan Territory, fully supported by the Ruler of Orlais. Ferelden isn't exactly over those multiple decades of occupation yet. However if you sided with the mages, you are personally responsible for getting Teagan's home back, defeating the Venatori who usurped him, clearing the Rebels out of Redcliffe and saving Connor (if alive) from getting press-ganged into Corypheus' army.
Teagan's response is a haughty letter demanding reparations for any and all damages caused by the Rebels caused while in Redcliffe. The Inquisitor can agree to pay these reparations or send people to help repair any damages, despite not technically being responsible for any of the Rebels actions prior to your alliance/conscription of them.
I don't know about you, but I'd think giving someone their home back should earn slightly more gratitude than being given a bill for damages.
(Granted, that's only on the mage path, but it's more than doing nothing for Redcliffe if you went with the Templars)
It's true that Teagan doesn't have the same relationship with the Inquisitor as he had with the Hero of Ferelden (although the Warden can potentially kill Isolde, Connor and Alistair, as well as leave Redcliffe to the Undead, so maybe not a bad thing). Regardless, he can't deny that the Inquisitor helped bring a lot of stability, security and prosperity to Ferelden both during and after the crisis.
For example, Teagan objects to the "occupation" of Caer Bronarch, all while seemingly ignoring that the Inquisition helped save Crestwood from the bandits harassing the town, who were using it as a stronghold. By securing the Keep and ensuring the roads were kept safe, the Inquisition helped encouraged traders back to Crestwood once more.
The other example he can use is the Inquisition forces stationed in the Hinterlands. Teagan seems to have forgotten that prior to the Inquisition's arrival, the place had descended into an active warzone between Mages and Templars, bandits were roaming unchecked, dead bodies were pilled up on the sides of the roads, all while the refugees were starving and about to freeze to death. The Inquisition's efforts helped end most of the Mage-Templar fighting in the region, set up watchtowers, sealed rifts, as well as found food, medicine and supplies for displaced refugees, along with shelter and protection.
As for the Inquisition being in "Orlesian" territory, that's always struck me as a petty excuse. Skyhold lies deep in the Frostbacks, somewhere you probably couldn't even find on a map, let alone know what side of the border you were on. Neither nation has much say, presence or dominion in that region... just ask the Avvar who actually "rules" them?
We saw in Origins that Teagan was the first to speak against Loghain, so it's understandable why he'd be distrustful of the Inquisition. Using a crisis to take control while claiming noble intentions is how much despots start... but the difference he's seemed to have overlooked is that the Inquisition has actually put it's money where it's mouth is, but helping people regardless of their race, social status or nationality.
I wish we'd had more dialogue with Teagan to flesh out his reasons for disliking the Inquisitor.
On the mage path he could have seen this as siding with the people who forced him from his home (blaming the Rebels for "inviting" the Venatori). On the Templar side he might have seen it as siding with the same militants members of the order who had been threatening to raze Redcliffe for months (or the potential death of Connor at the hands of the Venatori or during the attack on Haven) It doesn't bother me that Teagan is antagonistic towards the Inquisitor, only that he seems to completely ignore all the good the Inquisition has done. Although he does have a point that the Inquisition's role in ending the Orlesian Civil War by playing Kingmaker (especially if allowing Celene's assassination to happen) does come across as rather shady. Still an army, on his land. Who likes an army on his land?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Jul 30, 2017 9:01:06 GMT
Still an army, on his land. Who likes an army on his land? True, but the Templars and Wardens seem to be able to get away with it. All three can effectively be considered independent armies belonging to NGO's stationed in various fortresses in Ferelden. The only difference is that unlike the Templars in Therinfal Redoubt and the Wardens in Soldier's Peak (and Vigil's Keep), the Inquisition didn't ask for permission or were officially granted Caer Bronach before they decided to occupy the place.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jul 30, 2017 9:07:48 GMT
Still an army, on his land. Who likes an army on his land? True, but the Templars and Wardens seem to be able to get away with it. All three can effectively be considered independent armies belonging to NGO's stationed in various fortresses in Ferelden. The only difference is that unlike the Templars in Therinfal Redoubt and the Wardens in Soldier's Peak (and Vigil's Keep), the Inquisition didn't ask for permission or were officially granted Caer Bronach before they decided to occupy the place. I see your points, but the people forget easily if feel safe. The army is a blessing in danger and a burden in peace. The thanks will not last forever.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jul 30, 2017 9:25:16 GMT
Still an army, on his land. Who likes an army on his land? True, but the Templars and Wardens seem to be able to get away with it. All three can effectively be considered independent armies belonging to NGO's stationed in various fortresses in Ferelden. The only difference is that unlike the Templars in Therinfal Redoubt and the Wardens in Soldier's Peak (and Vigil's Keep), the Inquisition didn't ask for permission or were officially granted Caer Bronach before they decided to occupy the place. And that could mean all the difference in the world couldn't it? Let's be honest here, we never really saw in Origins how Tegan approaches politics, aside from lashing out angrily at Loghain. So we've established that he has no issues lashing out angrily at highly respected political figures. Let's also keep in mind how absolutely humiliated Tegan was by Gaspard last time Tegan was in Orlais for a Diplomatic meeting. He was forced to wear a ridiculous outfit and fight a fencing duel with a feather. Our only experience with Tegan prior to this, was basically a purely humanitarian/ family concern. This does not truly involve politics, so we more or less see the None Political Tegan in Origins. In fact I don't think he even comes to the Landsmeet, if he did he contributed nothing, opting to let his brother Eamen do all the talking. Inquisition was our first real look at Arl Tegan, the politician, and he is a man who clearly does not want to be jerked around. As you said, what is he response to saving Redcliff? depends, sometimes it's an annoyed letter that is basically a Bill for the damages, sometimes it's "I'll let you use one of my mines for 1 year for you're service." with a heavy impression that you better not try to keep it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 9, 2017 11:01:58 GMT
Also if you really pay attention at the War Table: you can do a lot of things that should leave you wondering whether Teagan is right to ask that the Inquisition disband. In addition to the stuff I mentioned, you can destroy a woman's marriage during Choose Successor in Lydes, cut out a woman's tongue for Maryden, kill someone for your herbalist, assassinate a Grand Cleric whose only crime is speaking out against you and who you could handle non-lethally, free Thom Rainier from prison by storming the facility he's being held in, and I'm sure I'm missing some messed up stuff.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 18, 2017 13:42:11 GMT
That elf who says "I like eggs" during Awakening. He really likes his eggs.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Painkiller3477
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Post by tacsear on Aug 23, 2017 15:34:39 GMT
That elf who says "I like eggs" during Awakening. He really likes his eggs. Who doesn't?
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Champion of Kirkwall
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Sifr
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Aug 28, 2017 5:45:03 GMT
That elf who says "I like eggs" during Awakening. He really likes his eggs. That's why he ultimately becomes a turncoat and sides with Solas. Not because he desires Elven restoration, but because he's simply in awe of his boss' beautiful, bald dome. (And who can blame him? Stupid sexy Solas)
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boxofscreaming
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 943 Likes: 1,658
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 25, 2017 18:29:49 GMT
Here's one I'd almost forgotten about - Ariane from the Witch Hunt DLC. Being a dual-wielding warrior and having a sword called Rain of Petals are two points in her favour. I also seem to recall your first line to her can be "Are you threatening my dog?".
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Post by Artemis on Sept 26, 2017 2:51:36 GMT
Vivienne. I think she gets accused of being one note by fandom, and it's partially the writers fault for having too big a cast and thus being unable to fully develop all their characters. But Vivienne is actually quite interesting and there is a lot about her that isn't appreciated by fandom. She is genuinely in love with her love, the duke, so she's far from the cold and heartless bitch some accuse her of. And she also made herself something out of nothing. She's not nobility, and she's a mage; she even points out that court mage used to be a joke but she turned it into something more. She has worked her ass off to get where she is; unfortunately, the result is that she's become corrupted by her own success. She wonders why everyone in the Circle isn't as content as she is and can't see how wrong the Circles were. But to me that makes her a deep and interesting (flawed) character.
And yes, I find some of the things she says in banter to be eyeroll-inducing and just plain rude. But just because she's a jerk doesn't mean she isn't an interesting character!
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Post by shinary on Sept 30, 2017 15:56:57 GMT
Shale - She was so awesome! Finn AKA Flora from the witch hunt DLC. He was awesome! Aveline - She was one of the best characters in DA II, but is often overlooked because of Varric, Anders and Fenris. Vivienne - She can be a bitch and I don't care much for a views, but I actually really like her.
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