inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 18, 2017 18:14:17 GMT
Just a thought I had when thinking about the range of Dragon Age characters we've had, I've noticed that when it comes to your party's classic sword-and-shield tank, that job usually falls to a human. Case in point: Alistair, Aveline, Blackwall and Cassandra.
"Hold on," you say, "any warrior character can be specced to use a sword and shield or a two-handed weapon." That's true in DAI and to a limited extent in DAO, but generally speaking, party members are intended to be used a certain way. If you want to make Varric a dual-wielding dagger rogue, that's fine, but he's not going to stop talking about Bianca, and his specialization is more tailored to ranged attackers.
"Hold on," you say, "Justice wasn't human." No, but he was a spirit inhabiting a human body.
"Hold on, Brogan and Valta were dwarves and they used swords and shields." True, but they were only around for one DLC and you didn't even control Valta, so you can't call her a party member. Also, Brogan was a lousy tank.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just making an observation. Perhaps it's something the devs can keep in mind for the future when designing party members.
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inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,783
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 18, 2017 18:51:28 GMT
I suppose it is because sword and shield does seem the classic knightly combat combination and even in Thedas that culture is almost exclusively human. You could argue for dwarf culture as well but they probably do favour the two handed combat mode most of the time. The same seems to go for Qunari. If they were going to give them a combo at all, I think I would be spear and shield, as most of the ones we encounter seem to favour spears or two handed weapons.
I can understand them not making an elf warrior type as a companion, much less a sword and shield wielder, because it does seem that they are more likely to specialise in ranged combat or the lighter weight weapons associated with the rogue class.
What would be interesting would be if they introduced the possibility of the net and trident combination for a gladiator type in Tevinter.
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inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 18, 2017 19:42:26 GMT
I suppose it is because sword and shield does seem the classic knightly combat combination and even in Thedas that culture is almost exclusively human. You could argue for dwarf culture as well but they probably do favour the two handed combat mode most of the time. The same seems to go for Qunari. If they were going to give them a combo at all, I think I would be spear and shield, as most of the ones we encounter seem to favour spears or two handed weapons. I can understand them not making an elf warrior type as a companion, much less a sword and shield wielder, because it does seem that they are more likely to specialise in ranged combat or the lighter weight weapons associated with the rogue class. What would be interesting would be if they introduced the possibility of the net and trident combination for a gladiator type in Tevinter. Forget about Fenris? The issue with other types of combat, such as the spear, is that they will require additional animations, which will require more resources. That sort of specialized combat will also likely need its own tree or specialization to accommodate it. They have to weigh all of that in their decision to add any sort of new combat style in the game. NPC qunari can use spears, but they don't have to have a wide range of animations or a detailed skill tree; they can swipe at the player as they get mowed down.
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inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 18, 2017 19:44:01 GMT
There was also Ariane from Witch Hunt, although she was a dual-wielding warrior.
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inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 18, 2017 19:46:10 GMT
There was also Ariane from Witch Hunt, although she was a dual-wielding warrior. Damn, forgot about her.
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inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 18, 2017 19:54:53 GMT
I get why this trend exists. You think of a sword and shield warrior and you tend to think of someone who's self-sacrificing, willing to put their health and safety at risk to protect others. "I am the shield, and I will hold the line." As gervaise said, that conjures up the image of the classic knight in shining (or tarnished) armour.
Hence Alistair, Aveline, Justice (who was basically an undead knight), Cassandra and Blackwall (who was sort of a Black Knight on a redemption quest). But it might be fun to play with the archetype a little.
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inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Apr 18, 2017 23:05:12 GMT
The same seems to go for Qunari. If they were going to give them a combo at all, I think I would be spear and shield, as most of the ones we encounter seem to favour spears or two handed weapons. The Qunari's use of spears, dual-wielding, two-handed weapons and mages focussed entirely on offense, does play into the Qunari aesthetic of their people being like an unstoppable force of nature. The Qunari don't seem fond of being on the defensive* and prefer to engage only when they know they can steamroll over anyone or anything in their way. (*Barring Seheron, where Qunari are locked into a stalemate with the Imperium)
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inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 19, 2017 5:44:29 GMT
The same seems to go for Qunari. If they were going to give them a combo at all, I think I would be spear and shield, as most of the ones we encounter seem to favour spears or two handed weapons. The Qunari's use of spears, dual-wielding, two-handed weapons and mages focussed entirely on offense, does play into the Qunari aesthetic of their people being like an unstoppable force of nature. The Qunari don't seem fond of being on the defensive* and prefer to engage only when they know they can steamroll over anyone or anything in their way. (*Barring Seheron, where Qunari are locked into a stalemate with the Imperium) While I mostly agree with this, Iron Bull has shield training and specifically mentions a learned shield technique to block mage spells. His words and tone suggest that it is a routine part of qunari martial training.
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inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,783
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 19, 2017 9:24:28 GMT
To be honest I had forgotten about Fenris, shame on me, but he was something of a special case. I tend to think that the process that gave him his markings also gave him the strength to wield those incredibly large swords like he does. Also Denarius took the trouble to have him trained as a warrior. This may be true of other elves in Tevinter where historically slaves have formed the backbone of the army.
I was thinking more about elven culture in the south resulting in heavy weapon wielding warrior types, which is highly unlikely. City elves are not permitted to bear any blade larger than a knife and the Dalish focus is going to be more on hunter gathering and responding quickly to attacks on their clan. If they go on the offensive, they are more likely to engage in guerrilla warfare from the shadows.
I know PW has the clan training in conventional melee combat in Masked Empire under a "War Leader" but to be honest that makes little sense to me. I didn't play Witch Hunt so was not aware of Ariane's melee abilities.
The point about Iron Bull mentioning shields is a good one. The thing is it would be normal to train a warrior in more than one style of fighting, so they can adapt to different situations. You could actually imagine the Qunari employing the "turtle" when going into combat with mages or opponents with predominately ranged weapons as they certainly would have the strength to pull it off. However, at some point the warriors would have to specialise in a particular style to make maximum use of the skills it gives. Wielding a sword and shield requires a degree of self control to use successfully. Whilst the Qun make a lot of their "discipline" and "mastery of self" they also seem to promote the idea that the ordinary rank and file are inclined to lose control when stirred up in battle, which is why you imagine they channel that raw aggression into the two handed weapon specialties.
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inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Apr 23, 2017 9:31:57 GMT
While I mostly agree with this, Iron Bull has shield training and specifically mentions a learned shield technique to block mage spells. His words and tone suggest that it is a routine part of qunari martial training. True, had forgotten to consider that without any Templars in their ranks to negate enemy spellcasting, shield-training would be a necessity they wanted to deflect or endure being hit by magical attacks. Have to imagine that the Beresaad probably are equipped with heavier shields than the typical wooden Qunari shields we often see, since they don't look like they'd offer much protection against errant fireballs.
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inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
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Post by Iddy on May 5, 2017 17:23:38 GMT
To be honest I had forgotten about Fenris, shame on me, but he was something of a special case. I tend to think that the process that gave him his markings also gave him the strength to wield those incredibly large swords like he does. Also Denarius took the trouble to have him trained as a warrior. This may be true of other elves in Tevinter where historically slaves have formed the backbone of the army.
I was thinking more about elven culture in the south resulting in heavy weapon wielding warrior types, which is highly unlikely. City elves are not permitted to bear any blade larger than a knife and the Dalish focus is going to be more on hunter gathering and responding quickly to attacks on their clan. If they go on the offensive, they are more likely to engage in guerrilla warfare from the shadows.
I know PW has the clan training in conventional melee combat in Masked Empire under a "War Leader" but to be honest that makes little sense to me. I didn't play Witch Hunt so was not aware of Ariane's melee abilities.
The point about Iron Bull mentioning shields is a good one. The thing is it would be normal to train a warrior in more than one style of fighting, so they can adapt to different situations. You could actually imagine the Qunari employing the "turtle" when going into combat with mages or opponents with predominately ranged weapons as they certainly would have the strength to pull it off. However, at some point the warriors would have to specialise in a particular style to make maximum use of the skills it gives. Wielding a sword and shield requires a degree of self control to use successfully. Whilst the Qun make a lot of their "discipline" and "mastery of self" they also seem to promote the idea that the ordinary rank and file are inclined to lose control when stirred up in battle, which is why you imagine they channel that raw aggression into the two handed weapon specialties. The Dalish clan in DA2 consisted almost entirely of warriors. You might spot one or two rogues at best when exploring the camp. It was an odd change, considering that they were more diverse in terms of class in DAO's version.
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