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Post by malthazar on Apr 19, 2017 23:09:19 GMT
CDPR is an independent studio who can freely decide when the game is good to Launch while bioware is EA games'bitch doing whatever they tell them and releasing the game when the boss wants
Being independent or just a slave is the most important factor, not just how much they had as budget
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 19, 2017 23:17:35 GMT
I guess in the end, a product's a product. How it was funded or how each developer operates is really not going to matter. That being said, the two games cater to so many different interests of mine that I'm not really compelled to compare the two anyway.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 19, 2017 23:20:17 GMT
A Dev chooses, a slave makes deadlines.
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Post by malthazar on Apr 19, 2017 23:23:10 GMT
I guess in the end, a product's a product. How it was funded or how each developer operates is really not going to matter. That being said, the two games cater to so many different interests of mine that I'm not really compelled to compare the two anyway. What i mean is basically this: Bioware have no say on the matter. The game must be launched when EA games Wang White CDRP can launch a game when they decide their game is good to go. They can decide to postpone a release date while vieste Don't
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 19, 2017 23:24:53 GMT
the devs themselves wished to make comparisons
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Post by isaidlunch on Apr 19, 2017 23:30:43 GMT
How is 5 years not a reasonable timeframe to create a game? TW3 had around four years, even DAI managed to be a bigger and more polished game than MEA in only 3 years.
If you want to blame big bad EA for something then blame them for the budget instead.
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Post by Pyrceval78 on Apr 19, 2017 23:30:51 GMT
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 19, 2017 23:32:47 GMT
I don't think they should make comparisons simply because it serves no purpose. The Witcher doing something better doesn't mean not-The-Witcher is a completely bad game. Further, doing something better than The Witcher is not an excuse if it is still terrible.
For me, comparisons show a lack of ability to articulate a position on its own merits.
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Post by Cyonan on Apr 19, 2017 23:35:09 GMT
I know blaming EA is the popular thing to do, and they certainly deserve a lot of it, but BioWare isn't exactly entirely free of being at fault here.
They had 5 years to make this game and they do actually have plenty of say on the game. EA may be able to decide not to delay it, but it's not like they have a guy sitting there telling every BioWare employee precisely what needs to go into the game.
Even then my understanding is that BioWare goes to EA and says "We need this much money and this much time to make this game" and EA either green lights it or says no at which point they either scrap the project or negotiate. BioWare knew full well what budget and timeframe they had to work with going in, and they attempted to make something on this scale with it.
Honestly, it sounds like the game just had a troubled development cycle more so than anything else.
Although at the end of the day ME:A is a AAA RPG, and if you're going to enter that ring then the current standard is The Witcher 3. All things in that get compared to it. It doesn't really matter what your budget, publisher, or development troubles were.
There was a time when BioWare was the standard, and AAA RPGs got compared to their games. That's just how things are.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 19, 2017 23:46:52 GMT
CDPR is an independent studio who can freely decide when the game is good to Launch while bioware is EA games'bitch doing whatever they tell them and releasing the game when the boss wants Being independent or just a slave is the most important factor, not just how much they had as budget To say that being "independent developer" means you can make only great games is 100% BULLSHIT. Independent/low budget games doesn't equal good because there are just much if not more shitty independent games than AAA games.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 19, 2017 23:48:34 GMT
The key problems of Andromeda have nothing to do with its 5 years development time.
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Post by malgus on Apr 19, 2017 23:57:30 GMT
Many people forgot that it was certainly not a full studio working for five years on MEA, Bioware montreal worked to make ME 3 multiplayer dlc and Omega dlc, that ended I believe in february 28 of 2013. the full team was not working on this game for 5 years, at best it was for four. adding to that the tons of creator who left during production, the development of this game was completely chaothic and troubled production can destroy many products, not just games but movies, series, etc. There is not one specific people to blame in these types of case, sometimes it just sucks that there is too many things that happen at the wrong time.
By the way many people loves to innocent EA saying that "oh bioware had 5 years so that is their fault", sorry to tell you that is still the job of EA to publish the game, they knew that Mass effect andromeda was not as good as it should have been and they still decided to release it. And if they did not knew about the products they were selling, well that means they are incompetent.
EA should have seen that the game needed more polish, they should have seen that it needed more time, its the fucking job of EA to see that the game needs more development because they are the one selling it, its their job to look into that before they sell it to the consumer.
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Post by timebean on Apr 20, 2017 0:03:50 GMT
The key problems of Andromeda have nothing to do with its 5 years development time. This! After too long, it just kinda crumbles...
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 20, 2017 0:04:37 GMT
Many people forgot that it was certainly not a full studio working for five years on MEA, Bioware montreal worked to make ME 3 multiplayer dlc and Omega dlc, that ended I believe in february 28 of 2013. the full team was not working on this game for 5 years, at best it was for four. adding to that the tons of creator who left during production, the development of this game was completely chaothic and troubled production can destroy many products, not just games but movies, series, etc. There is not one specific people to blame in these types of case, sometimes it just sucks that there is too many things that happen at the wrong time. By the way many people loves to innocent EA saying that "oh bioware had 5 years so that is their fault", sorry to tell you that is still the job of EA to publish the game, they knew that Mass effect andromeda was not as good as it should have been and they still decided to release it. And if they did not knew about the products they were selling, well that means they are incompetent. EA should have seen that the game needed more polish, they should have seen that it needed more time, its the fucking job of EA to see that the game needs more development because they are the one selling it, its their job to look into that before they sell it to the consumer. At some point the publisher has to draw the line and say this is the final extension. Especially once the product has been announced to the public. Or you get what happened with the Duke Nukem sequel. I don't know how many extensions Bioware had so saying the blame is fully on EA is wrong. There's probably blame to go to both sides.
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Post by naxterra on Apr 20, 2017 0:06:58 GMT
One company actually focuses on player needs and actual game like story, graphics, extra content and other company focuses on... nothing. Yeah literally nothing.
Sorry but copy paste animations, lots of bugs, lack of content, no story, micro transactions doesn't make a game. Sorry EA but you failed like always.
You know, CDPR actually released 16 DLCs for free and 2 paid DLCs with a lot of content? I mean A LOT of content. Not just one or two hour but actually 20-25 hours of gametime content with actual story.
Also about money. I don't know how much people gain around these days but 40 million USD for 5 years of development is a lot. Some people said Andromeda's engine changed to Frostbyte and they had to do everything from zero but remember that, they had a professional team to help them. It is not like no one knows in Bioware about this new graphic engine. EA can easily assign people who is experienced on Frostbyte to Andromeda project.
Problem is EA and their divisions don't care about players. They only care about profits. People bought ME:Andromeda because everyone loved Mass Effect series. Now it is very clear they screwed up and still there is not enough communication between officials and gamers.
I spend around 160ish hours for this game in one playthrough, because I wanted it to end with full completion but it is not possible thanks to bugs and non existent quest markers. I am now just logging in to do Strike Missions and then log out. I have no idea what they are either. They are timed missions but still no rewards. Silver box credits are like 70-80 credits, but anyways.
In 5 years and with 40 million dollars they should have made much more better game, but this game is sadly no where closer to original trilogy.
Also I am still playing Witcher 3 and enjoying it, but I have no intention to play ME:Andromeda again. Ryder and his/her copy paste companions, NPCs can do whatever they want. Shame on me that I actually paid 60 USD for it.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 20, 2017 0:08:02 GMT
Let me explain something about he video game business...it's a business. The point is to make money. Also didn't MEA have a large budget and a long development time.
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Post by malthazar on Apr 20, 2017 0:18:01 GMT
Well, i must say that i'm very sad that bioware didn't seem to put the same effort in andromeda as they did with inquisition Maybe the true problem may be the team who developer. I loved Andromeda, i really loved the game, but it feels like it could be much better.
It being a business alone is reason enough to make the best game possible, because the better the quality, more people will buy ir, unless you are a fanboy
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Post by malgus on Apr 20, 2017 0:27:13 GMT
Many people forgot that it was certainly not a full studio working for five years on MEA, Bioware montreal worked to make ME 3 multiplayer dlc and Omega dlc, that ended I believe in february 28 of 2013. the full team was not working on this game for 5 years, at best it was for four. adding to that the tons of creator who left during production, the development of this game was completely chaothic and troubled production can destroy many products, not just games but movies, series, etc. There is not one specific people to blame in these types of case, sometimes it just sucks that there is too many things that happen at the wrong time. By the way many people loves to innocent EA saying that "oh bioware had 5 years so that is their fault", sorry to tell you that is still the job of EA to publish the game, they knew that Mass effect andromeda was not as good as it should have been and they still decided to release it. And if they did not knew about the products they were selling, well that means they are incompetent. EA should have seen that the game needed more polish, they should have seen that it needed more time, its the fucking job of EA to see that the game needs more development because they are the one selling it, its their job to look into that before they sell it to the consumer. At some point the publisher has to draw the line and say this is the final extension. Especially once the product has been announced to the public. Or you get what happened with the Duke Nukem sequel. I don't know how many extensions Bioware had so saying the blame is fully on EA is wrong. There's probably blame to go to both sides. NO absolutely fucking not! There is no "has to draw the line", its the job of the publisher to make sure the game is finished before it goes in stores. If a game needs more polish, it needs more polish and that's it. If it release a game without the polish it needs, it is 100% responsible for deciding to do that. Now they can decides to take actions and send people to bioware to tell them to finish more quickly, but the decision to release the game is still all theirs, not Bioware. But Let's say for a moment that Bioware was the one responsible for the bad release or did not worked quick enough on the project, I do not think that's true considering EA history of releasing games before the developpers tells them its over, but for the sake of the exemple let's go for it for two seconds : If you hired someone to build you a house, and this guys has workers at his service. So the work begins, but after a certain amount of time the house is still not finished because the workers did not work quick enough, and the building contractor knows the house is not finished but still decide to tell you that you can go live into it. When you are there, you realize the house is not finished. Are you gonna say "Oh but the building contractor had to draw the line to his worker, so he is only partially responsible for me being in an unfinished house."? I do not think you would do that, at least I know I would not, the building contractor job would have been to tell his worker to finish the job, inform you that the house was not ready because it was not ready and it was going to be longer. That would have been his job and that is not something he did. Even in your scenario where bioware are the incompetent one, there is no excuse for EA to decides release the game in march when they knew it needed more time, their decision to do it.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:34:56 GMT
Many people forgot that it was certainly not a full studio working for five years on MEA, Bioware montreal worked to make ME 3 multiplayer dlc and Omega dlc, that ended I believe in february 28 of 2013. the full team was not working on this game for 5 years, at best it was for four. adding to that the tons of creator who left during production, the development of this game was completely chaothic and troubled production can destroy many products, not just games but movies, series, etc. There is not one specific people to blame in these types of case, sometimes it just sucks that there is too many things that happen at the wrong time. By the way many people loves to innocent EA saying that "oh bioware had 5 years so that is their fault", sorry to tell you that is still the job of EA to publish the game, they knew that Mass effect andromeda was not as good as it should have been and they still decided to release it. And if they did not knew about the products they were selling, well that means they are incompetent. EA should have seen that the game needed more polish, they should have seen that it needed more time, its the fucking job of EA to see that the game needs more development because they are the one selling it, its their job to look into that before they sell it to the consumer. Development on MEA is said to have begun directly after ME3 finished, with half the team working on ME3 DLC and the other half on Andromeda. The problem is that extending production more would have rapidly increased the costs of development
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 0:35:51 GMT
Well, i must say that i'm very sad that bioware didn't seem to put the same effort in andromeda as they did with inquisition Maybe the true problem may be the team who developer. I loved Andromeda, i really loved the game, but it feels like it could be much better. It being a business alone is reason enough to make the best game possible, because the better the quality, more people will buy ir, unless you are a fanboy Hard for them to muster the same kind of heart and enthusiasm for ME:A after facing so much flack over ME3. They were obviously undertaking ME:A with a whole lot of angst and trepidation. Their nervousness is evident in the interviews with them. There is a big wall of mistrust between Bioware and their fans... it existed long before ME:A was released and it still exists today... made worse when the fans started generating a big meme fest over the facial animations.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 20, 2017 0:40:28 GMT
At some point the publisher has to draw the line and say this is the final extension. Especially once the product has been announced to the public. Or you get what happened with the Duke Nukem sequel. I don't know how many extensions Bioware had so saying the blame is fully on EA is wrong. There's probably blame to go to both sides. NO absolutely fucking not! There is no "has to draw the line", its the job of the publisher to make sure the game is finished before it goes in stores. If a game needs more polish, it needs more polish and that's it. If it release a game without the polish it needs, it is 100% responsible for deciding to do that. Now they can decides to take actions and send people to bioware to tell them to finish more quickly, but the decision to release the game is still all theirs, not Bioware. But Let's say for a moment that Bioware was the one responsible for the bad release or did not worked quick enough on the project, I do not think that's true considering EA history of releasing games before the developpers tells them its over, but for the sake of the exemple let's go for it for two seconds : If you hired someone to build you a house, and this guys has workers at his service. So the work begins, but after a certain amount of time the house is still not finished because the workers did not work quick enough, and the building contractor knows the house is not finished but still decide to tell you that you can go live into it. When you are there, you realize the house is not finished. Are you gonna say "Oh but the building contractor had to draw the line to his worker, so he is only partially responsible for me being in an unfinished house."? I do not think you would do that, at least I know I would not, the building contractor job would have been to tell his worker to finish the job, inform you that the house was not ready because it was not ready and it was going to be longer. That would have been his job and that is not something he did. Even in your scenario where bioware are the incompetent one, there is no excuse for EA to decides release the game in march when they knew it needed more time, their decision to do it. Please go read up on Duke Nukem Forever. You might change your mind on there being no point where it's publish or perish. You get more time the longer you hold off on announcing it. But once you announce it, you put a clock on when people will care enough about the game to get the costs back out of it. Without knowing how many times EA gave Bioware a deadline extension it's impossible to say who has the most blame for the faults not being gone at launch. It's probably a mixture. Bioware for not utilizing time well (took too long to realize the No Man's Sky route wasn't going to pan out) and EA for not giving enough time on the deadline extensions (underestimating how long it would take to fix bugs, didn't factor in the employees leaving, etc).
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Post by colfoley on Apr 20, 2017 1:06:50 GMT
Why not? Mea compares very favorably to Witcher 3
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 20, 2017 1:10:14 GMT
I blame EA for giving this project to a green inexperience studio and ask them to use an engine that they clearly do not know how to use.
I blame Bioware for not knowing how technically inferior and limited their team is and went for such ambitious scope.
I firmly believe that if Bioware is only responsible for the writing and game design and DICE was actually handling all technicalities, this game would have turned out a few thousand times better in terms of overall quality.
[p/s] What we should be comparing are the business practices of EA/Bioware versus CDP/CDPR. 1-2hours long DLC or full expansion story DLC? Automatic upgrade from launch edition to GOTY edition etc.
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Post by malgus on Apr 20, 2017 1:11:25 GMT
Please go read up on Duke Nukem Forever. You might change your mind on there being no point where it's publish or perish. You get more time the longer you hold off on announcing it. But once you announce it, you put a clock on when people will care enough about the game to get the costs back out of it. Without knowing how many times EA gave Bioware a deadline extension it's impossible to say who has the most blame for the faults not being gone at launch. It's probably a mixture. Bioware for not utilizing time well (took too long to realize the No Man's Sky route wasn't going to pan out) and EA for not giving enough time on the deadline extensions (underestimating how long it would take to fix bugs, didn't factor in the employees leaving, etc). There is a difference between a game that took 15 years to finish and was remade with multiple engine and a creator that went crazy over things, and take two did not own 3d realms like EA owns Bioware. So if EA wants the project to be finished they can go ahead and tell their employees to quick it up. They don,t have to sue 3d realms like take two had to do, these situations are completely different. MEA did have a troubled production but not to that point. Andromeda would have just needed a few more months before it would have been significantly better, hell 2 weeks and a half after that and this controversy with facial animation would have been much less big if the patch 1.05 was included from the beginning. And Ea could have easily taked that time. By the way announcment can be delayed, just like andromeda was at first announced for the end of 2016, it could have easily been delayed again, just like blizzard game did for years of pushing back the release date of their games. So no that,s certainly not a clock like you say it is. And from everything I know, EA only gave them ONE delay for MEA, it would have just needed one more and the game would not have been overshadowed by controversy. That is 100% EA decision to release it in this state, they are the publisher and the owner.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 20, 2017 1:20:13 GMT
Compare by products not by the circumstances of how they were made. These are two similar games in 2015 and 2017 respectively by genre, focus, and gameplay to some extent. They're both of AAA calibre. You can't not compare them.
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