dm04
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Post by dm04 on Apr 24, 2017 1:12:29 GMT
Another example of poor writing. Why didn't a pathfinder travel with the Nexus? Good question. Why did the Hyperion hit the Scourge? Answer: to take Ryder #2 out of the equation for 80% of the game. Ryder #2 could have been with good ol' dad on shuttle 1 and during the skirmish with the Kett be hit hard, get a wound and fall into a coma. Would be more plausible then the Ark blindly plotting a course... with all this "radiation" and size of the scourge, it is hardly to miss. "Space" between galaxies may be empty, space within a cluster is not... all kinds of debris, asteroids, meteorites, solarflares, em storms, comets and and and and and.
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 24, 2017 1:12:36 GMT
Boom! Goes Garrus' sniper rifle... head shot. However, there is a counterpoint to this: Every colonization effort, historically from an Earthly view, was usually done by adventurers, desperadoes, indentured servants, etc. I can't remember who said it here, but you're not going to send the very best to sacrifice everything they love on a risk. The people that you will get are ready for a new life and who knows what is motivating them. Though, N7 knew about the initiative and would've had to go through their ranks to find suitable candidates, you can't tell the quality of the soldier going. It could be used as an excuse to get a team member that wasn't performing in their unit. It's a crap shoot at best and whoever you are... you're right. You got a point, but then again, such people will make the bulk of the ark population. Forward bases were established by military, it took years for a "fort" to actualy grow and few more before colonists were moving in. So, maybe they would not send their best, but surely not instable people who would jeopardize the whole endeavor. I agree, but how do you deal with a 600 year time lapse? Everything mundane is literally erased from your entire experience up until the cryogenic pod opens up. I can see someone getting a wild hair up their ass and declare mutiny or even worse... a Cerberus sleeper agent ready to create havoc for the other alien races. I could see chaos occurring because 600 years into the future... anything goes.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2017 1:13:35 GMT
Why not Alec and the Ryders? He has the most advanced SAM, he has been working with Garsen the whole time, you would think Alec would be among the first to arrive. It would not have been hard to explain why there wasn't one on the Nexus when the Hyperion arrives. The pathfinder was killed along with the leaders when the Nexus hit the scourge.
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dm04
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Post by dm04 on Apr 24, 2017 1:30:55 GMT
I agree, but how do you deal with a 600 year time lapse? Everything mundane is literally erased from your entire experience up until the cryogenic pod opens up. I can see someone getting a wild hair up their ass and declare mutiny or even worse... a Cerberus sleeper agent ready to create havoc for the other alien races. I could see chaos occurring because 600 years into the future... anything goes. If you are going to do something like this, you are going to know this, its not as if you would do it without knowing to be asleep for 600 years. I am pretty sure they had some psych profiles done first, long before entering cryo. Also, you have AI personel... it is even said in game, AI personel was handpicked and is brought out of cryo, not the regular colonists, who expect to wake up and go straight to their new colony. Tann is 8t in line, which is still inner circle and stable to do the right things under pressure. Whas did they told us? Exiles did not want to go back in cryo and wanted to wake up more? Like... for what? Nexus is hit by the scourge, so reactor core damaged (assumption, as they are happy to have the Hyperion core), ressources are thin, the golden worlds are found out to be everything but golden, no/low energy, large partions of the Nexus damaged (hydroponics), food/water is low... and they want to wake up more, so... when the rations are not enough for 500 people, it will be enough for 10.000 ? What are the exiles thinking? What if they won? Wake up more? And then? THe Nexus folk know about the Kett, but had no idea about Kadara, so basicaly, they would load shutles as they have no other spaceships and fly out into the unknown, aboard a few hundred shuttles. Now that is a plan that guarantees survival. Edit: I think this whole "uprising" plot serves only the purpose to have a third faction in fights and some pirates and outlaws.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 24, 2017 1:34:19 GMT
This whole uprising makes no sense, if you are going to send someone ahead of the arks to serve as a forward operation base, you are going to hire only extremely reliable, disciplined people who keep their bearings together, no matter how badly south things go. With this in mind I always had to laugh when you heard an npc whining about "this isn't a military operation". Yeah, well, maybe it should have been. The civies mutinied the first chance they got. If the AI would have had a strong military contingent instead maybe they would have had people willing to follow orders for the greater good instead of bolting at the first sign of trouble.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 24, 2017 1:36:17 GMT
I agree, but how do you deal with a 600 year time lapse? Everything mundane is literally erased from your entire experience up until the cryogenic pod opens up. I can see someone getting a wild hair up their ass and declare mutiny or even worse... a Cerberus sleeper agent ready to create havoc for the other alien races. I could see chaos occurring because 600 years into the future... anything goes. If you are going to do something like this, you are going to know this, its not as if you would do it without knowing to be asleep for 600 years. I am pretty sure they had some psych profiles done first, long before entering cryo. Also, you have AI personel... it is even said in game, AI personel was handpicked and is brought out of cryo, not the regular colonists, who expect to wake up and go straight to their new colony. Tann is 8t in line, which is still inner circle and stable to do the right things under pressure. Whas did they told us? Exiles did not want to go back in cryo and wanted to wake up more? Like... for what? Nexus is hit by the scourge, so reactor core damaged (assumption, as they are happy to have the Hyperion core), ressources are thin, the golden worlds are found out to be everything but golden, no/low energy, large partions of the Nexus damaged (hydroponics), food/water is low... and they want to wake up more, so... when the rations are not enough for 500 people, it will be enough for 10.000 ? What are the exiles thinking? What if they won? Wake up more? And then? THe Nexus folk know about the Kett, but had no idea about Kadara, so basicaly, they would load shutles as they have no other spaceships and fly out into the unknown, aboard a few hundred shuttles. Now that is a plan that guarantees survival. Edit: I think this whole "uprising" plot serves only the purpose to have a third faction in fights and some pirates and outlaws. Boom! Goes Wrex's shotgun. You're right.
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Post by Laughing_Crow on Apr 24, 2017 2:12:56 GMT
Another example of poor writing. Why didn't a pathfinder travel with the Nexus The story explanation would seem to be that each Ark had a specific golden planet as it's preprogrammed destination and thus needed a Pathfinder and team... But the Nexus intent was to be the political center like the Citadel and hub for all the planets. However, as the first ship, even if the Nexus didn't warrant a Pathfinder, it would need some science, engineering and exploration teams along with military or some form of militia support or defense infrastructure because the potential unknowns.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 24, 2017 6:10:12 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks one of the problems with this game is too many people? There's what 800,000 on the 4 arks (though not all survive) and who knows how many on the Nexus. Just about everybody has their favorite race from the Milky Way represented. I would have rather had 2 or maybe 3 new races from the Helios Cluster rather than have 'old home' week on every planet with Raiders and Outcasts. Wrong. How did you get 800,000? AFAIK, the arks can carry 100,000 apiece - that's 400,000. Still a lot of course. And they do all look the same. What's going on there? Cloning? Wrong. The Arks carry 20,000 people each. This is explicitly stated. I'm not sure how many were on the Nexus, but I think that was also around 20,000. So 100,000 total approximately. Correct! I'm not trying to be a douche. (Seriously. ) I just think it's humorous how wildly these figures vary. The 100K total figure is stated by Alec Ryder in the opening scene, and reiterated repeatedly.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 24, 2017 7:21:35 GMT
Yanno. I had the same thoughts about the exiles on Kadara and Elaadan. And I noticed several other plotholes that I'm just not gonna list here 'cause I'm tired and don't wanna accidentally screw something up while typing. I've played Bioware games since KotOR. And every one of them that I can remember the game with fluency has had plotholes big enough to fly a Reaper through. And not just the small ones either. It's just gotten to the point where I just shake my head, mutter a barely coherent "here we go again," then get on with enjoying the game, 'cause despite the story flaws, most Bioware games are just...fun. ME2 was perhaps the only Bioware game that I almost uninstalled 5 minutes after starting to play for the first time. I literally shut it off, walked away, then just said fuck it and played the game 'cause I wanted to see how Shepard's story played out. I mean, to keep my sanity I had to basically look at the 3 games of the MET as seperate games with kinda similar characters, kinda similar game play, and kinda similar main hero who happend to have the same name as the previous one, but they were all fun games in their own right. I'm just old and tired enough now not to get so worked up about the plot holes in Bioware games anymore. It's like saying Bethesda games will have short, shitty main storylines. Bioware's stories will have huge plotholes.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 24, 2017 7:25:23 GMT
Speak for yourself, my favourite race is the Geth.
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dm04
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Post by dm04 on Apr 24, 2017 7:46:12 GMT
This whole uprising makes no sense, if you are going to send someone ahead of the arks to serve as a forward operation base, you are going to hire only extremely reliable, disciplined people who keep their bearings together, no matter how badly south things go. With this in mind I always had to laugh when you heard an npc whining about "this isn't a military operation". Yeah, well, maybe it should have been. The civies mutinied the first chance they got. If the AI would have had a strong military contingent instead maybe they would have had people willing to follow orders for the greater good instead of bolting at the first sign of trouble. I hear you, and I heard ths whining, it made me laugh too... for two reasons 1) you do not have to be military to be disciplined and rational 2) a lot of this whining people actualy is ex-military (or something similar) I wonder if there are no mothers, fathers, wives and husbands working at BioWare... lets say I have food/water for 1000 days and I have to work things out, the more days I have to "finish" the better and I have no idea knowing how many days I will need to make things work. So if my rations last for 1000, would I actualy wake up 3 more people to keep me company, reduce the days to 250 and hope I can finish the work in 250, as opposed to 1000 days, when I have no idea how many days it will realy take? The draw to wake up your relatives is extremely strong, BUT to know "if I do not finish my work, I die and so do my kidsl, starvation is realy painfull"... you are just not going to do it. The movie "passengers" depict this quite well... this guy was awake and alone for what, like 2-3 years before deliberatery waking up that girl? And he was alone. On the Nexus, there are hundreds of people. No chance a fahter/mother is going to wake up their kid in such a situation, better to let them sleep forever and hope for some miracle solution then to let them die.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 24, 2017 8:01:19 GMT
I feel like BSN is running out of things to talk about or at least complain about.
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VanSinn
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 24, 2017 8:05:27 GMT
I feel like BSN is running out of things to talk about or at least complain about.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 24, 2017 8:08:27 GMT
Yanno. I had the same thoughts about the exiles on Kadara and Elaadan. And I noticed several other plotholes that I'm just not gonna list here 'cause I'm tired and don't wanna accidentally screw something up while typing. I've played Bioware games since KotOR. And every one of them that I can remember the game with fluency has had plotholes big enough to fly a Reaper through. And not just the small ones either. It's just gotten to the point where I just shake my head, mutter a barely coherent "here we go again," then get on with enjoying the game, 'cause despite the story flaws, most Bioware games are just...fun. ME2 was perhaps the only Bioware game that I almost uninstalled 5 minutes after starting to play for the first time. I literally shut it off, walked away, then just said fuck it and played the game 'cause I wanted to see how Shepard's story played out. I mean, to keep my sanity I had to basically look at the 3 games of the MET as seperate games with kinda similar characters, kinda similar game play, and kinda similar main hero who happend to have the same name as the previous one, but they were all fun games in their own right. I'm just old and tired enough now not to get so worked up about the plot holes in Bioware games anymore. It's like saying Bethesda games will have short, shitty main storylines. Bioware's stories will have huge plotholes. Yah, but despite of this... I did play, finished the game, and at the end I could says: hm, I would have added this and that, would have changed this and that. But basicaly, I had fun playing the game, destpite the plotholes. And MEA? Every second or third scene I think: why he hell would they do that? Why would they DO that? Why would they do THAT?? Having ideas how they could have improved the scene in the second they happen... Like this bio trap on the archonship, I did expect that to happen, but they not? They board the flagship of the archenemy, the alarms are rining, and they expect to waltz to archons quarters without problems? I have no problems with Ryder & Co to be trapped like this, but how the run in the trap... I am still grinding my teeth. Or Vetras "loyalty" mission... Ryder just "tripping" over the laser wire... seriously? SUre Ryder is no N7 but at this stage of the game? And I even had Cora and Vetra with me... this is just. So, the team going "down" a hatch, sure why not. Like this? Nope.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 24, 2017 8:21:04 GMT
I feel like BSN is running out of things to talk about or at least complain about. Hm what do you expect? It is a forum about a game. All topics are already covered. So... let them just shut down the forum? Having a forum to talk about the same stuff over and over again is actualy pretty normal. Besides, when you tell me s...t smells good and tastes deliciuosly, I am going to talk to you for the rest of my life till you change your mind. Aaaand, not everyone read every thread and every post. The chances are high you miss something, so, with repeated topics, chances increase you get it all.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 24, 2017 8:30:08 GMT
Yanno. I had the same thoughts about the exiles on Kadara and Elaadan. And I noticed several other plotholes that I'm just not gonna list here 'cause I'm tired and don't wanna accidentally screw something up while typing. I've played Bioware games since KotOR. And every one of them that I can remember the game with fluency has had plotholes big enough to fly a Reaper through. And not just the small ones either. It's just gotten to the point where I just shake my head, mutter a barely coherent "here we go again," then get on with enjoying the game, 'cause despite the story flaws, most Bioware games are just...fun. ME2 was perhaps the only Bioware game that I almost uninstalled 5 minutes after starting to play for the first time. I literally shut it off, walked away, then just said fuck it and played the game 'cause I wanted to see how Shepard's story played out. I mean, to keep my sanity I had to basically look at the 3 games of the MET as seperate games with kinda similar characters, kinda similar game play, and kinda similar main hero who happend to have the same name as the previous one, but they were all fun games in their own right. I'm just old and tired enough now not to get so worked up about the plot holes in Bioware games anymore. It's like saying Bethesda games will have short, shitty main storylines. Bioware's stories will have huge plotholes. Yah, but despite of this... I did play, finished the game, and at the end I could says: hm, I would have added this and that, would have changed this and that. But basicaly, I had fun playing the game, destpite the plotholes. And MEA? Every second or third scene I think: why he hell would they do that? Why would they DO that? Why would they do THAT?? Having ideas how they could have improved the scene in the second they happen... Like this bio trap on the archonship, I did expect that to happen, but they not? They board the flagship of the archenemy, the alarms are rining, and they expect to waltz to archons quarters without problems? I have no problems with Ryder & Co to be trapped like this, but how the run in the trap... I am still grinding my teeth. Or Vetras "loyalty" mission... Ryder just "tripping" over the laser wire... seriously? SUre Ryder is no N7 but at this stage of the game? And I even had Cora and Vetra with me... this is just. So, the team going "down" a hatch, sure why not. Like this? Nope.
Eh. I'll grant you there was some stuff that was off in ME:A. I still think that ME2 was the absolute worst offender BY FAR of the Mass Effect games in this regard. Even with as much as I hated some of the plot stuff in ME2, I wound up enjoying the game. I had to damn near turn my head off to do it, but I don't regret my purchase overall. ME:A, while certainly not lacking in this kinda thing either, didn't force me to turn my head off NEARLY as much as ME2 did, so I'd say it was an improvement. You're more than welcome to disagree with me, but I'm right and I know it, and I'm comfortable with that.
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canuckgamer
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Post by canuckgamer on Apr 24, 2017 15:39:31 GMT
There was 100,000 between the 4 arks and the Nexus. 20,000 per ark and an additional 20,000 on the Nexus.
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Post by DarkBeaver on Apr 24, 2017 15:46:08 GMT
Why not Alec and the Ryders? He has the most advanced SAM, he has been working with Garsen the whole time, you would think Alec would be among the first to arrive. It would not have been hard to explain why there wasn't one on the Nexus when the Hyperion arrives. The pathfinder was killed along with the leaders when the Nexus hit the scourge. Now,if you started out as the human pathfinder and Alec Ryder went with the Nexus, however on arrival you discover he has been murdered along with Garsen, making you "Pathfinder Prime"....now that would pique my interest!
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Post by sdzald on Apr 24, 2017 15:46:51 GMT
Say 120,000 if you include the Qurian ark, but how many Asari, Turians, and Salarians didnt make it? Those arks may have only had half their pods survive, or less.And not everyone is out of cryo yet. I would guess by the end if the game there's only 40,000-50,000 Milky Way individuals awake in Andromeda. Yea and I have single handily killed half of them
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Post by Muddy Boots on Apr 24, 2017 15:49:53 GMT
Well, there must have been a secret ark of criminals (unknown population) The impression I get from the story with the Nexus and exiles, was they didn't have a lot of people out of cryo, yet there's a large enough population of Krogan to start a colony, lots of crooks, bandits and pirates where ever you go in Heleus. Supposedly we've got the Krogan genophage that keeps their population down and supposedly humans under some form of birth control. I don't recall seeing how many were aboard the Nexus, but the Nexus survivors seemed stuck with keeping the population low because of low resources. I don't know if you read the book, but almost, if not all, were released from cryo during the uprising.
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Post by Muddy Boots on Apr 24, 2017 15:51:54 GMT
Well, it is a migration/colonization effort. I don't think the species representation is that far fetched. You need serious funds to pull that off. Unfortunately, not every race had it and this is pretty much a last-ditch effort to get some species to survive a very possible catastrophic and genocidal win by the Reapers. I'm just surprised the Volus didn't make it onto a ship because they're big-time money handlers. I think they will be included along with the other races on the incoming ark.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by Muddy Boots on Apr 24, 2017 16:03:19 GMT
Why didn't a pathfinder travel with the Nexus The story explanation would seem to be that each Ark had a specific golden planet as it's preprogrammed destination and thus needed a Pathfinder and team... But the Nexus intent was to be the political center like the Citadel and hub for all the planets. However, as the first ship, even if the Nexus didn't warrant a Pathfinder, it would need some science, engineering and exploration teams along with military or some form of militia support or defense infrastructure because the potential unknowns. They do have all that. Or did. They had the scientists where were there to do deeper studies on whatever pathfinders might send their way. A militia of sorts once the original security team lost their leader, but they're there to secure the Nexus. Honestly, you'd think they'd have more to have to protect colonies. I do agree that it was incredibly naive to think there would be no hostile activity on arrival just because the AI has peaceful intent. They still have engineering. Exploration was supposed to have been left to pathfinder teams. Everyone else on board the Nexus was to study and do R&D with whatever pathfinders found in their travels. I think it's a bit strange that the pathfinder can do his own R&D on that tiny ship with all the resources required, but it's something I've been overlooking.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Apr 24, 2017 17:30:41 GMT
How did you get 800,000? AFAIK, the arks can carry 100,000 apiece - that's 400,000. Still a lot of course. And they do all look the same. What's going on there? Cloning? You guys don't even pay attention to the fucking writing. Each ark is 20k a piece and intotal its 100k for the expedition which is too small frankly.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Apr 24, 2017 17:32:06 GMT
The Arks carry 20,000 people each. This is explicitly stated. I'm not sure how many were on the Nexus, but I think that was also around 20,000. So 100,000 total approximately. The game also explicitly states that the whole intiative numbers around 100,0000. People just don't listen.
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Laughing_Crow
N2
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Laughing_Crow on Apr 24, 2017 17:56:47 GMT
I don't recall seeing how many were aboard the Nexus, but the Nexus survivors seemed stuck with keeping the population low because of low resources. I don't know if you read the book, but almost, if not all, were released from cryo during the uprising. We know the Ark cryo population as that's mentioned in several places in the game. But was a number given or hinted at in the book for the Nexus? Or how many lost on arrival? It's a much larger ship, so it's feasible that it carried a much larger cryo population. However, the Nexus was only partially completed; at no point in the story do I get a sense that there's a lot of people still aboard.
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