inherit
3164
0
Aug 19, 2021 11:58:46 GMT
426
souljahbill14
297
Jan 31, 2017 21:13:13 GMT
January 2017
souljahbill14
|
Post by souljahbill14 on Apr 21, 2017 14:12:48 GMT
You may not trust AI but Ryder does soooooo....
|
|
sdzald
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 367 Likes: 307
inherit
5880
0
307
sdzald
367
Mar 24, 2017 18:27:01 GMT
March 2017
sdzald
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sdzald on Apr 21, 2017 15:03:35 GMT
Always find it quite peculiar what people choose to complain about. Joining a terrorist organisation of space racists, where you're constantly accompanied by an AI, without as much as even a beep? After you've been risen from possibly the deadest state a human being can be in, aside from just desintegrating? Best game ever. Not complaining about an AI in your head in a game where the AI makes the entire setting possible? Worst game ever. Whatever. Your kidding right? ME2 was my least favorite story. They should of given Shepard the ability to walk away from Cerbus the first chance he got. Instead they forced him to work with them the entire game. Just look at a couple of post in this thread to see the dissatisfaction with the main story in ME2. I don't know where you get your idea we were all down with it.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,687
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,066
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 21, 2017 15:06:31 GMT
That's consistent, anyway. The problem comes when someone is bothered by ME:A but isn't bothered by ME2.
I'm still not clear on how you improve either game without a total rewrite.
|
|
Muddy Boots
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 594 Likes: 764
inherit
2406
0
764
Muddy Boots
594
Dec 15, 2016 21:00:44 GMT
December 2016
boots
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
|
Post by Muddy Boots on Apr 21, 2017 15:12:11 GMT
Let us say I will take this at face value, according to the Andromeda Initiative having a SAM is quite normal for a pathfinder. So there is nothing controversial about that because everyone knew, what they were in for. New galaxy, new rules... dont like it, do not leave the milkway. Still let me help you, yes your SAM is a little different and in a way more advance and potencial more dangerous. One of the options could be to take it out, so yes having that option should be there but you would die. So sure lets have a Morinth kinda of gameover, I am totally fine with that. From the story I played in MEA you are wrong about people knowing about SAM. Hell even Ryder Jr was surprised when he found out about SAM, but like everyone else who finds out about SAM he just fluffs it off. SAM is kept a secret in the Initiative except for the leadership, for a very good reason, people would freak. Yet anyone who finds out just ho hums, that cool. My character in the ME universe the second he learned SAM was embedded he would of told them to remove it, even if it risked his life. Yet not only are we NOT given a choice, our character is FORCED to carry on like, no big deal. Not only does that break canon but that is NOT allowing us to Role Play. Thank You Mr. Walters. No, everyone knows about SAM and the pathfinders having implants. SAM is present throughout all the ships, including the Nexus. All pathfinders have a somewhat advanced version of SAM and their teams have implants that allow them all to communicate faster than their own voice. SAM implants can also read a team's vitals and track one another when necessary. What surprised Ryder was the fact that his implant is more advanced than the others and is capable of sensing Ryder's emotions and tactile sensations, so the relationship with SAM and Ryder is more intimate than with the others. SAM also makes Ryder his/its main priority. And yes, there is a privacy mode where SAM can be muted, though that is just done in one scene as far as I know and the player can't control that.
|
|
DarkBeaver
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 125 Likes: 119
inherit
7715
0
119
DarkBeaver
125
Apr 16, 2017 15:53:42 GMT
April 2017
darkbeaver
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by DarkBeaver on Apr 21, 2017 15:16:41 GMT
There are some inconsistencies with the whole SAM implant in everyone's head. If everyone in the pathfinder team had one, why on the intro planet am I the only one scanning stuff? Liam is right next to me...I am not THE pathfinder yet...are the implants different for the Ryder kids? Even at the very beginning, the first tutorial on scanning, Cora says, "Ryder has a scanner". Doesnt she have one, too? It's just one of those little things that bug you, among many others.
|
|
sdzald
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 367 Likes: 307
inherit
5880
0
307
sdzald
367
Mar 24, 2017 18:27:01 GMT
March 2017
sdzald
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sdzald on Apr 21, 2017 15:19:15 GMT
That's consistent, anyway. The problem comes when someone is bothered by ME:A but isn't bothered by ME2. I'm still not clear on how you improve either game without a total rewrite. I don't think ME2 would have needed a total rewrite. Shepard could of just convinced the crew and stolen the ship. and the story could have progressed from there. You are right MEA would have needed a total rewrite, or better yet it shouldn't have been written that way from the get go. It is just Mr Walters once again preaching the greatness and forcing the player base to accept his vision of synthesis. I swear the way he defended it after ME3 and the way the entire story of MEA is based around it, without any choice by the player, it approaches a religious level for him. I can tell you this. It is the last ME game I buy and ANY title where I know he is involved won't see any of my money.
|
|
dm04
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 342 Likes: 432
inherit
7767
0
432
dm04
342
Apr 17, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
April 2017
dm04
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dm04 on Apr 21, 2017 15:22:38 GMT
It's your Ryder, not your character. You can't have a character entirely RP'd in a game with complex relationships, voice acting and an overreaching story. There has to be some base character writing. Sure, some things could have done with maybe one more choice, but nothing is perfect. Games like Mass Effect and the Witcher have a defined protagonist that you can RP within what is reasonable for their personality. Fallout is a good series if you want more RP in your protagonist, though even that has some kind of character limitation. Then I gues the original ME trilogy was just a dream. Shepard had some "base character writing" as well... no matter what background, Shepard was N7 by the start of the game. And the player had NO say in it whether we wanted to be a Spectre or not. And our choices were all tied to the bounds of the game: Paragon-Neutral-Renegade. That said, we (ok at least I) never had any feeling Shepard is "out of character" You could go all paragon and everything felt right, you could go all renegade and all felt right, you could go 80% paragon and do some renegade choices now and then and it still all felt just right. And whatever we did, it had a different outcome. Now look at Ryder, whatever option we choose (emotion, logic, casual, prof) the response we get from the NPC is quite often the same and varies just a little bit, and even worse, the outcome is almost always the same, except for some "big" decisions. If you go "all logic" or "prof" and then at some ocasion pick casual, Ryder feels very out of character. And as said, the NPC reactions are the same (I keep reading, mostly in profesional review, how my dialogue choices matter... they do not, tried it out more then once, saved, picked something, aha, loaded, picked something else.. aha the same, like always, almost always). Shepard was mine, whether you see it or not. Limited by the bounds set by the game, but it was still "me". Ryder... feels like playing an interactive movie game. PS: Mind, I am not saying the game is total BS and bad. It is playable, and enjoyable, more then ME3, to me, right now it does not achieve the "greatness" of ME1 and 2. however we choose to speak, the lines (responded by the NPC we talk to) SOMETIMES vary a bit (but more then often are the same) and the outcome is almost always the same
|
|
inherit
ღ Too witty for a title
6261
0
Aug 12, 2023 11:35:22 GMT
8,655
decafhigh
3,011
March 2017
decafhigh
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by decafhigh on Apr 21, 2017 15:27:04 GMT
You may not trust AI but Ryder does soooooo.... I never really got the impression Scott/Sara bothered to really think about it enough to trust it or not. To me it is rather jarring how easily pretty much everyone just accepts it. You would think they all had been living with AI constructs and companions for generations. Aside from Drack no one ever really questions the whole premise to begin with, it just is the way things are for them. BW even makes it a point to show you that AI is not only something that isn't common, but was actually illegal where all these people came from, but aside from a few fringe 'fanatics' everyone just wholly accepts the premise that the Pathfinders, the ones responsible for establishing the entire initiative, are organic-AI hybrids. They don't seem to treat it any different than you or I would someone with a pacemaker.
|
|
VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
inherit
2579
0
Sept 18, 2021 9:17:16 GMT
1,429
VanSinn
576
January 2017
vansinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
VanSinn77
|
Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 15:29:42 GMT
There are some inconsistencies with the whole SAM implant in everyone's head. If everyone in the pathfinder team had one, why on the intro planet am I the only one scanning stuff? Liam is right next to me...I am not THE pathfinder yet...are the implants different for the Ryder kids? Even at the very beginning, the first tutorial on scanning, Cora says, "Ryder has a scanner". Doesnt she have one, too? It's just one of those little things that bug you, among many others. Um...because you're playing as Ryder, and not Cora/Liam? I mean, we could go back to the days where games would pause and a tutorial message popped up telling us about the scanner...but I kinda like having these little moments where the flow of the game itself doesn't stop. You're the one doing the scanning during gameplay because you're the one playing. Having your squad do your scanning for you kinda removes the whole idea of having the scanning outside of cutscenes in the first place. The game could just give you enough research points for the gear you want to craft, or hey! What about removing crafting all together! Or wait, even better! Since we're not crafting anything, let's just get rid of the inventory all together! Let's just randomly find weapons on couches in the middle of schools (ME3 Grissom Academy?) and then we can use 'em however we want! I know, I'm being hyperbolic here. It's intentional. Sometimes people need to just step back and think about things before coming to an internet forum and complaining about them.
|
|
dm04
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 342 Likes: 432
inherit
7767
0
432
dm04
342
Apr 17, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
April 2017
dm04
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dm04 on Apr 21, 2017 15:56:58 GMT
Um...because you're playing as Ryder, and not Cora/Liam? I mean, we could go back to the days where games would pause and a tutorial message popped up telling us about the scanner...but I kinda like having these little moments where the flow of the game itself doesn't stop. You're the one doing the scanning during gameplay because you're the one playing. Having your squad do your scanning for you kinda removes the whole idea of having the scanning outside of cutscenes in the first place. The game could just give you enough research points for the gear you want to craft, or hey! What about removing crafting all together! Or wait, even better! Since we're not crafting anything, let's just get rid of the inventory all together! Let's just randomly find weapons on couches in the middle of schools (ME3 Grissom Academy?) and then we can use 'em however we want! I know, I'm being hyperbolic here. It's intentional. Sometimes people need to just step back and think about things before coming to an internet forum and complaining about them. Seriously, would you miss the inventory if it were gone? We can't change our weapons on the fly, not our armor, the equipment of our squad neither. What is the inventory ANY different to ME2/3 armory? We need that armory (loadout station) anyway. The inventory only limits as how many items we can have, want to have all weapon in all tiers? Well not in this game. On the other hand, who would want to anyway? When we find a new weapon/armor, we either run to the next loadout station to equip it, but 99% of the time it is deconstructed, because our "crafted" stuff is better anyway. So it limits us actualy just on the "mod" part, but there are not that many mods anyway. And with the 1.05 patch and increase of inv size, I do not even bother with cryo pods. Btw, when I found the first "turian calibrator" or "quarian nav sensor"... it was a little bit funny the first time, but 1 hour later, I give s... about salvage found. I don't need an inv for that. And the crafting? We did fine with "pre made" weapons/armor in ME2/3, the mods available were enough. Is MEA any special? Well it is there, an added feature. So ok for that, but it is nothing special... we research the same weapons just a tier higher all the time (now crafting a la DAI would be more interesting...) Btw this whole crafting requires this "mining"... everyone hated the scanning + mining in ME2, MEA is even worse, because we have to cruise with the Nomad through the mineral zone, I am not sure if "having THIS crafting" makes up for being forced to mine again. Hey Grissom Academy was already evacuated and under attack, so I gues some merc left it behind. If you want, you can justify everything. (An empty armory in the Grissom Academy that you only get access to if this overlord guy is alive, that bugs me more then the Shotgun laying on a couch.
|
|
sdzald
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 367 Likes: 307
inherit
5880
0
307
sdzald
367
Mar 24, 2017 18:27:01 GMT
March 2017
sdzald
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sdzald on Apr 21, 2017 16:09:10 GMT
dem04 yep, I really got a laugh when in the first patch Bioware drastically upped the allowed inventory space. What the heck for???? I don't use any of this crap anyway So now rather then carrying around 50 pieces of junk I can carry around 100. Yahoooo hoooo. Oh right I can sell it all! Great I really need more credits so I can buy ... give me a second I will come up with something I want to buy ... never mind
|
|
danishgambit
N3
A master of his game
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 364 Likes: 367
inherit
3867
0
367
danishgambit
A master of his game
364
February 2017
danishgambit
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by danishgambit on Apr 21, 2017 16:26:16 GMT
This is why the Paragon/Renegade system was better. It wasn't spectacular and had some problems but at least you could respond to situations differently. In this game you're just agreeing in four different tones and it's just terrible.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,687
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,066
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 21, 2017 16:31:48 GMT
That's consistent, anyway. The problem comes when someone is bothered by ME:A but isn't bothered by ME2. I'm still not clear on how you improve either game without a total rewrite. I don't think ME2 would have needed a total rewrite. Shepard could of just convinced the crew and stolen the ship. and the story could have progressed from there. You are right MEA would have needed a total rewrite, or better yet it shouldn't have been written that way from the get go. It is just Mr Walters once again preaching the greatness and forcing the player base to accept his vision of synthesis. I swear the way he defended it after ME3 and the way the entire story of MEA is based around it, without any choice by the player, it approaches a religious level for him. I can tell you this. It is the last ME game I buy and ANY title where I know he is involved won't see any of my money. It's little more than that for ME2. The Cerberus crew would have to go or be rewritten, all the critical path mission intros would need to have alternate intros for the new path, and I'm not sure how the Collector Cruiser and Reaper IFF missions would work. Soluble, but you'd need to cut a lot of stuff to free up this much wordcount.
|
|
danishgambit
N3
A master of his game
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 364 Likes: 367
inherit
3867
0
367
danishgambit
A master of his game
364
February 2017
danishgambit
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by danishgambit on Apr 21, 2017 16:32:27 GMT
There are some inconsistencies with the whole SAM implant in everyone's head. If everyone in the pathfinder team had one, why on the intro planet am I the only one scanning stuff? Liam is right next to me...I am not THE pathfinder yet...are the implants different for the Ryder kids? Even at the very beginning, the first tutorial on scanning, Cora says, "Ryder has a scanner". Doesnt she have one, too? It's just one of those little things that bug you, among many others. Um...because you're playing as Ryder, and not Cora/Liam? I mean, we could go back to the days where games would pause and a tutorial message popped up telling us about the scanner...but I kinda like having these little moments where the flow of the game itself doesn't stop. You're the one doing the scanning during gameplay because you're the one playing. Having your squad do your scanning for you kinda removes the whole idea of having the scanning outside of cutscenes in the first place. The game could just give you enough research points for the gear you want to craft, or hey! What about removing crafting all together! Or wait, even better! Since we're not crafting anything, let's just get rid of the inventory all together! Let's just randomly find weapons on couches in the middle of schools (ME3 Grissom Academy?) and then we can use 'em however we want! I know, I'm being hyperbolic here. It's intentional. Sometimes people need to just step back and think about things before coming to an internet forum and complaining about them. The problem is that it makes no sense. Allowing the player to do things is fine but there needs to be a logical reason that the player would have to do these things. If the only answer to why something in a plot happens is "video game logic" then something is wrong with the plot. This happens even earlier in the game when a group of ENGINEERS doesn't have an omni-tool to fix a part of the ship that would get people killed if it wasn't fixed with an omni tool. It's just not well written...
|
|
dm04
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 342 Likes: 432
inherit
7767
0
432
dm04
342
Apr 17, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
April 2017
dm04
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dm04 on Apr 21, 2017 16:35:37 GMT
This is why the Paragon/Renegade system was better. It wasn't spectacular and had some problems but at least you could respond to situations differently. In this game you're just agreeing in four different tones and it's just terrible. Well said . Usualy I struggle finding the words to describe my opinion, but this two lines perfectly sum up the problem at hand.
|
|
inherit
1286
0
2,137
SofNascimento
1,316
Aug 27, 2016 13:51:04 GMT
August 2016
sofnascimento
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
|
Post by SofNascimento on Apr 21, 2017 16:40:14 GMT
People talk about ME2, but the very first time you meet EDI onboard the Normandy you can say something like "shut that thing off!". Throught the game, even in ME3 a bit, you can show your distrust with EDI and not give her much credit. Same thing with Cerberus. You can throughtout the game show reluctance in working with them and making a lot of choices that go against TIM's interesting. You can 100% play a Shepard that wish he didn't worked with Cerberus and only did that because it was the only way. That's not a headcanon (a very important distinction), it's a possibility whithin the game.
The problem with SAM, in this case, is that you have only a very slight margin on how to respond to have an AI being part of you, literally controlling if you live or die. You should have been able to roleplay this differently. Maybe show indignation, anger or even fear with the situation. Do all that and still work with SAM. After all, you don't have to like, or even trust, someone to work with them (sometimes very effectively).
Long story short, in ME2 you had to accept a few things ncessary to move the plot foward, but you chould choose how to respond to them. In MEA you have to accept a thing things necessary to mvoe the plot foward, but you also have to accept how your character respond to them. The former is fine, necessary even, but the other doesn't match a game that allows you to create on own character. Hence so many people disliking its roleplaying elements.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1818
0
Nov 29, 2024 10:29:56 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 29, 2024 10:29:56 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 17:23:26 GMT
Shepard was mine, whether you see it or not. Limited by the bounds set by the game, but it was still "me". I realized that Shepard wasn't my character during the first mission in ME1 - when she ran off to knock Kaidan away from the beam. Shepard also had to accept the cipher from Shiala and mind-meld with Liara to progress the story (among other things). I don't find the SAM implant any more intrusive than these examples from earlier games. Any adept, vanguard, or sentinel Shep also had a biotic implant and amp. I've always felt that way to a greater or lesser degree with any cinematic, voiced protag PC. I don't think ME2 would have needed a total rewrite. Shepard could of just convinced the crew and stolen the ship. and the story could have progressed from there. You are right MEA would have needed a total rewrite, or better yet it shouldn't have been written that way from the get go. It is just Mr Walters once again preaching the greatness and forcing the player base to accept his vision of synthesis. I swear the way he defended it after ME3 and the way the entire story of MEA is based around it, without any choice by the player, it approaches a religious level for him. I can tell you this. It is the last ME game I buy and ANY title where I know he is involved won't see any of my money. It's little more than that for ME2. The Cerberus crew would have to go or be rewritten, all the critical path mission intros would need to have alternate intros for the new path, and I'm not sure how the Collector Cruiser and Reaper IFF missions would work. Soluble, but you'd need to cut a lot of stuff to free up this much wordcount. There would be more to it than that - for one thing, you'd have to be getting your intel from somewhere else. The encounter with the VS would need to be entirely different if Shep wasn't working with Cerberus, Jack's intro would be much different, and some of the dialogue from other characters would change. How/why would Shepard even find out about, pay, or recruit some of the characters? Also, Shep having worked with Cerberus carried over into some interactions in ME3 - all of that would need to have alternate paths.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Apr 21, 2017 17:26:28 GMT
Always find it quite peculiar what people choose to complain about. Joining a terrorist organisation of space racists, where you're constantly accompanied by an AI, without as much as even a beep? After you've been risen from possibly the deadest state a human being can be in, aside from just desintegrating? Best game ever. Not complaining about an AI in your head in a game where the AI makes the entire setting possible? Worst game ever. Whatever. Your kidding right? ME2 was my least favorite story. They should of given Shepard the ability to walk away from Cerbus the first chance he got. Instead they forced him to work with them the entire game. Just look at a couple of post in this thread to see the dissatisfaction with the main story in ME2. I don't know where you get your idea we were all down with it. I doubt BioWare could really have committed the effort that would really be necessary to pull off faction switching. Like, if you were able to walk away from Cerberus from the start, there would have to be a bunch of mutually exclusive content spanning the entire game.
|
|
Sondergaard
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975
inherit
1505
0
Sept 27, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
975
Sondergaard
572
Sept 8, 2016 21:17:59 GMT
September 2016
sondergaard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
|
Post by Sondergaard on Apr 21, 2017 17:27:25 GMT
People talk about ME2, but the very first time you meet EDI onboard the Normandy you can say something like "shut that thing off!". Throught the game, even in ME3 a bit, you can show your distrust with EDI and not give her much credit. Same thing with Cerberus. You can throughtout the game show reluctance in working with them and making a lot of choices that go against TIM's interesting. You can 100% play a Shepard that wish he didn't worked with Cerberus and only did that because it was the only way. That's not a headcanon (a very important distinction), it's a possibility whithin the game. The problem with SAM, in this case, is that you have only a very slight margin on how to respond to have an AI being part of you, literally controlling if you live or die. You should have been able to roleplay this differently. Maybe show indignation, anger or even fear with the situation. Do all that and still work with SAM. After all, you don't have to like, or even trust, someone to work with them (sometimes very effectively). Long story short, in ME2 you had to accept a few things ncessary to move the plot foward, but you chould choose how to respond to them. In MEA you have to accept a thing things necessary to mvoe the plot foward, but you also have to accept how your character respond to them. The former is fine, necessary even, but the other doesn't match a game that allows you to create on own character. Hence so many people disliking its roleplaying elements. Excellent. I now await the inevitable 'but you couldn't execute Jacob and Miranda in ME2 so your argument is shit!'.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Apr 21, 2017 17:30:59 GMT
Well, technically you can execute them.....with neglect.
|
|
Sondergaard
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975
inherit
1505
0
Sept 27, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
975
Sondergaard
572
Sept 8, 2016 21:17:59 GMT
September 2016
sondergaard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
|
Post by Sondergaard on Apr 21, 2017 17:39:38 GMT
Shepard was mine, whether you see it or not. Limited by the bounds set by the game, but it was still "me". I realized that Shepard wasn't my character during the first mission in ME1 - when she ran off to knock Kaidan away from the beam. Shepard also had to accept the cipher from Shiala and mind-meld with Liara to progress the story (among other things). I don't find the SAM implant any more intrusive than these examples from earlier games. Any adept, vanguard, or sentinel Shep also had a biotic implant and amp. As has been said, nobody (at least nobody in any way reasonable) would expect total control in a computer/console rpg. A lesser degree in the OT, a greater degree in Andromeda. And that's the problem. People who have played the OT expected the same level of control. Not complete, obviously, but some freedom within the limits of the medium and script to roleplay. That was taken away for, as far as I can see, no reason beyond 'too hard, concentrate on shooting stuff'. That limited freedom is what gives the OT such massive replayability.
|
|
inherit
738
0
4,633
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
|
Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 21, 2017 17:44:59 GMT
#YouAreNotRyder
That's the problem. BioWare went half the way this time making THEIR protagonist but avoided the "autodialogue" by giving us more responses but they all just suited the Ryder they wanted. I can see how these games end up this way from the writers' POV because a writer is always looking for clear motivations to pull out the themes and drive the plot but I've noticed how the writers's opinions on the storytelling in BioWare games (like choices) usually suck and seem uninformed of the game-design mindset or the "video game language" that should be used to tell stories effectively with gaming.
|
|
dm04
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 342 Likes: 432
inherit
7767
0
432
dm04
342
Apr 17, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
April 2017
dm04
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dm04 on Apr 21, 2017 17:46:54 GMT
I realized that Shepard wasn't my character during the first mission in ME1 - when she ran off to knock Kaidan away from the beam. Shepard also had to accept the cipher from Shiala and mind-meld with Liara to progress the story (among other things). I don't find the SAM implant any more intrusive than these examples from earlier games. Any adept, vanguard, or sentinel Shep also had a biotic implant and amp. I've always felt that way to a greater or lesser degree with any cinematic, voiced protag PC. We can go deeper and analyze one scene after another. But it serves noone. So basicaly you are right, Shep also did stuff without direct control of the player. As said, the char is bound by the story to some degree. What I speak about are the decisions. We DO decide what to say about SAM, but both are virtualy the same. We DO decide what to say, but it is the same in 4 different "tones" and the response is the same (renegade-neutral-paragon were all different and the outcome was all different). (To analyze your two situations. Pushing Alenco out of the way of the beam served to progress the story and more important, it was perfectly in Shepard character. The mind melding was... inevitable, it was the only known way how to make sense out of the vision and Shepard could object his/her doubts about it. As about SAM, the AI is transfered to your brain without imediate constent, necessary for the plot and well, there is not much that can be done about that. I am actualy not angry about it. But... when we can speak about it, I should at least have the opportunity to express my doubts about this "symbiosis". And I would not mind if SAM would hack doors/terminals to save me some, usualy bad, minigames and analyze DNA and/or whatever, just like EDI did. But SAM is doing everything. Shepard was the protagonist and EDI a helping hand, now, SAM is the protagonist and Ryder the helping hand, legs/arms/hands for SAM. Is this so hard to understand? Or am I just some idiot who knows nothing?)
|
|
Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
Posts: 1,303 Likes: 2,754
inherit
1951
0
Jun 10, 2024 22:52:29 GMT
2,754
Mihura
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
1,303
November 2016
mihura
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
MihuraL
|
Post by Mihura on Apr 21, 2017 17:55:14 GMT
That makes no sense, especially if you are RPing a Ryder. Sam is the work of your parents and the reason their name got trashed, if anything you would want to preserve it. Now if you mean, like "I cannot RP a character that I want and tailor for my needs"? sure that is true but there is no video game like that. Unless of course you are playing a tabletop or inside your head. Why does it make no sense? My father uploads an "unshackled" AI in my brain and I have to go with it just because he is my father? If my father did it, no matter if his "life" was ruined because of creating it, I would throw him out a window, literaly speaking.
What we know is... the Ryder siblings have the SAM implants in their heads, so they actualy did agree to this to some degree. But noone ever told them they will ahve SAM uploaded, which can pretty much control their bodies. Even when SAM reassures me all the time he won't harm me, I do not have to just agree with it and should be allowed to have objections about this matter. But rather then giving us a choice how we react to this, we are given 2 options that are basicaly the same. This is actualy one of the reasons why MEA is not, and never will be, as great as ME1-3, the lack or real choices. Shepard was mine, the background aside, I shaped the character as I saw fit, remove the name and it was just one character, it could be anyone, it was my character, this is what roleplaying is about. MEA... I play Ryder and this char is done, no matter what I do, everything is made in context of the Ryder character. You know, even if I run my Ryder 90% of the game logical and professional, one would think, the char is more serious then and a casual answer, or even emotional, which are sometimes more appropriate for a situation, would be based more on logic/professionalism but no, 90% logical/profesional and when I pick casual, it is the same old sarcasm and weird approach like before. (And yes I am aware of the fact how many variables this would mean and how many dialogues the voice actors would have to record to fit all the possible variations, but well, that comes with this 4-side options, rather then the simple good-neutra-bad approach from previous games.) Whatever, I want my Ryder to be professional, I have to pick professional everytime, even when it does not fit the situation and the line is actualy quite awkward. And nevertheless, at the end, it is still Ryder and not "my playcharacter". This whole thing feels like I am an observer and not the protagonist. Because the way they frame the issues. Even if you are distant with your father, Alec still sacrifices his life for yours and you latter found out why and what is involved. Now if you told me that DA2 handle this better, ya they did, you could be an ass to your family, could be close or both but in ME:A those relationships are set in stone.
|
|
VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
inherit
2579
0
Sept 18, 2021 9:17:16 GMT
1,429
VanSinn
576
January 2017
vansinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
VanSinn77
|
Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 18:12:50 GMT
Um...because you're playing as Ryder, and not Cora/Liam? I mean, we could go back to the days where games would pause and a tutorial message popped up telling us about the scanner...but I kinda like having these little moments where the flow of the game itself doesn't stop. You're the one doing the scanning during gameplay because you're the one playing. Having your squad do your scanning for you kinda removes the whole idea of having the scanning outside of cutscenes in the first place. The game could just give you enough research points for the gear you want to craft, or hey! What about removing crafting all together! Or wait, even better! Since we're not crafting anything, let's just get rid of the inventory all together! Let's just randomly find weapons on couches in the middle of schools (ME3 Grissom Academy?) and then we can use 'em however we want! I know, I'm being hyperbolic here. It's intentional. Sometimes people need to just step back and think about things before coming to an internet forum and complaining about them. Seriously, would you miss the inventory if it were gone? We can't change our weapons on the fly, not our armor, the equipment of our squad neither. What is the inventory ANY different to ME2/3 armory? We need that armory (loadout station) anyway. The inventory only limits as how many items we can have, want to have all weapon in all tiers? Well not in this game. On the other hand, who would want to anyway? When we find a new weapon/armor, we either run to the next loadout station to equip it, but 99% of the time it is deconstructed, because our "crafted" stuff is better anyway. So it limits us actualy just on the "mod" part, but there are not that many mods anyway. And with the 1.05 patch and increase of inv size, I do not even bother with cryo pods. Btw, when I found the first "turian calibrator" or "quarian nav sensor"... it was a little bit funny the first time, but 1 hour later, I give s... about salvage found. I don't need an inv for that. And the crafting? We did fine with "pre made" weapons/armor in ME2/3, the mods available were enough. Is MEA any special? Well it is there, an added feature. So ok for that, but it is nothing special... we research the same weapons just a tier higher all the time (now crafting a la DAI would be more interesting...) Btw this whole crafting requires this "mining"... everyone hated the scanning + mining in ME2, MEA is even worse, because we have to cruise with the Nomad through the mineral zone, I am not sure if "having THIS crafting" makes up for being forced to mine again. Hey Grissom Academy was already evacuated and under attack, so I gues some merc left it behind. If you want, you can justify everything. (An empty armory in the Grissom Academy that you only get access to if this overlord guy is alive, that bugs me more then the Shotgun laying on a couch. Yes, I would miss the inventory. The UI is retarded, but the inventory works. People think you can carry 50 sniper rifles around (the original inventory limit before the patch) at a time, or stacks of 5000 iron or omni-gel canisters. A TINY, MINISCULE amount of deductive reasoning shows that that is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RETARDED. The inventory limit IS WHAT YOU STORE ON THE TEMPEST. There is a realism element here. You store weapons you're not using, you take the weapons and gear with you that you're actually using. This is why you can have 10+ different consumable options, but only equip 2-4 types. Those are what you actually take with you. Crafting gives a customization element. One that needs improvement, I think but not scrapped. Mods serve to further customize. In ME2/ME3 there was no life to the economy. Every item, weapon or armor could be found in the exact same place at the exact same time. Each store had an entirely different inventory that was completely static, save for after different story gates. Hell, I wanted the game to stop giving me credits and stupidly placed items, and just put the damned things into my "inventory." It was that stupid. Having rank I-X of different weapons isn't the best idea, I'll grant that. I'd rather they come up with a different system for crafting in any sequel. But it's MILES ahead of ME2 and ME3. I've been an opponent of "loot systems" since ME1 at least. But I'd rather have that than the moronic way we acquired new gear in ME2/ME3. The Scanner could be seen in a similar light to what I described above, but it introduces a new gameplay mechanic that has more uses than simply "scan for minerals" or whatnot. It gives a plausible way to find out information we otherwise wouldn't have access to. So I do agree that there could have been a better introduction to the thing, this is an area where the gameplay/story segregation thing is just not an issue, unless people are simply trying to find things to bitch about in this game, because it's cool to jump on the hate train. ME:A has definite, legitimate issues. There are no denying that, and I've stated my dislike of several things in the past. This, and issues similar to it, are just reaching the point of the ridiculously absurd. You may not like the scanner, fine. It may not be a gameplay mechanic you enjoy. But at least be HONEST about the damned thing and say "I just don't like it" instead of finding the dumbest damned arguments to say WHY you don't like it. Eh, whatever. I'm done here. I'm just getting really sick and tired of hearing the same old stupid complaints that just a little bit of common sense would give an answer to, but people make out like it's the worst goddamned thing ever, and this game is absolute shit and HERE'S WHY!
|
|