brad2240
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 140 Likes: 320
inherit
3527
0
Jul 28, 2018 19:06:30 GMT
320
brad2240
140
Feb 12, 2017 18:07:45 GMT
February 2017
brad2240
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by brad2240 on Apr 21, 2017 18:14:13 GMT
People talk about ME2, but the very first time you meet EDI onboard the Normandy you can say something like "shut that thing off!". Throught the game, even in ME3 a bit, you can show your distrust with EDI and not give her much credit. Same thing with Cerberus. You can throughtout the game show reluctance in working with them and making a lot of choices that go against TIM's interesting. You can 100% play a Shepard that wish he didn't worked with Cerberus and only did that because it was the only way. That's not a headcanon (a very important distinction), it's a possibility whithin the game. The problem with SAM, in this case, is that you have only a very slight margin on how to respond to have an AI being part of you, literally controlling if you live or die. You should have been able to roleplay this differently. Maybe show indignation, anger or even fear with the situation. Do all that and still work with SAM. After all, you don't have to like, or even trust, someone to work with them (sometimes very effectively). Long story short, in ME2 you had to accept a few things ncessary to move the plot foward, but you chould choose how to respond to them. In MEA you have to accept a thing things necessary to mvoe the plot foward, but you also have to accept how your character respond to them. The former is fine, necessary even, but the other doesn't match a game that allows you to create on own character. Hence so many people disliking its roleplaying elements.
Here's the thing with EDI: saying "shut it off" amounts to nothing. Distrusting it amounts to nothing. No matter what you say or do, it's still an important plot device, it's still going to save the Normandy and Joker's still going to fall in love with it.
And players are still going to gripe about "my choices don't matter."
Now come to SAM. Sure, BW could add options to not like, distrust or even get rid of SAM. But it wouldn't matter because SAM is still an important plot device, it's still going to save you and still going to allow you to interface with Remnant tech. And if BW added those options and they amounted to nothing, players would still be griping about "my choices don't matter." Its the nature of the beast.
|
|
inherit
2137
0
Dec 18, 2021 22:02:27 GMT
1,222
dropzofcrimzon
1,391
November 2016
dropzofcrimzon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
DropzOfCrimzon
|
Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 21, 2017 18:17:15 GMT
Uhm. OP where were you during ME2???
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,323
themikefest
15,643
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Apr 21, 2017 18:23:58 GMT
After Miranda revives you to save you have a conversation with her and jacob where she calls out cerberus' motives and powers. And all Shep can say is "sure I'll join you!". WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! You have to join a known terrorist organisation (we're living in the universe of being a council SPECTRE here) and you can't even choose to go back? Nope we have to swallow what BioWare is feeding us and choose to work for TIM despite shep possibly having had his unit wiped out by them, and knowing they've been murdering alliance admirals. Someone at BioWare had a hard-on for Cerberus. Explains why it won't stop showing Miranda's arse all the time. Personally I'd be like "Screw you I'm taking this ship back to the citadel and the fifth fleet is coming for your massive arse"." Where's that option? #airlockjacobandmiranda If Garrus and Tali survive ME2, they're squadmates in ME3, but the others can't be. My Shepard has to accept that. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP The same with the asari. Someone at Bioware had a hard-on for her. Explains why she's in cutscenes that made no sense having her in. Personally I'd be like "Who said you can put that crap in Miranda's office? Get off my ship. NOW". Where's that option? #airlockliara
|
|
inherit
1286
0
2,137
SofNascimento
1,316
Aug 27, 2016 13:51:04 GMT
August 2016
sofnascimento
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
|
Post by SofNascimento on Apr 21, 2017 18:33:32 GMT
People talk about ME2, but the very first time you meet EDI onboard the Normandy you can say something like "shut that thing off!". Throught the game, even in ME3 a bit, you can show your distrust with EDI and not give her much credit. Same thing with Cerberus. You can throughtout the game show reluctance in working with them and making a lot of choices that go against TIM's interesting. You can 100% play a Shepard that wish he didn't worked with Cerberus and only did that because it was the only way. That's not a headcanon (a very important distinction), it's a possibility whithin the game. The problem with SAM, in this case, is that you have only a very slight margin on how to respond to have an AI being part of you, literally controlling if you live or die. You should have been able to roleplay this differently. Maybe show indignation, anger or even fear with the situation. Do all that and still work with SAM. After all, you don't have to like, or even trust, someone to work with them (sometimes very effectively). Long story short, in ME2 you had to accept a few things ncessary to move the plot foward, but you chould choose how to respond to them. In MEA you have to accept a thing things necessary to mvoe the plot foward, but you also have to accept how your character respond to them. The former is fine, necessary even, but the other doesn't match a game that allows you to create on own character. Hence so many people disliking its roleplaying elements.
Here's the thing with EDI: saying "shut it off" amounts to nothing. Distrusting it amounts to nothing. No matter what you say or do, it's still an important plot device, it's still going to save the Normandy and Joker's still going to fall in love with it.
And players are still going to gripe about "my choices don't matter."
Now come to SAM. Sure, BW could add options to not like, distrust or even get rid of SAM. But it wouldn't matter because SAM is still an important plot device, it's still going to save you and still going to allow you to interface with Remnant tech. And if BW added those options and they amounted to nothing, players would still be griping about "my choices don't matter." Its the nature of the beast.
But it does matter. It matter in your charater building, it matters for roleplaying. A Shepard that says "It's good to have an AI or board" is very different than one that says "shut that thing off!". Sure, when it comes to plot development, it doesn't matter. EDI will still to the same things and so on. But it matters for the player, and I cannot overstate how important that is. So I'd say that people who are saying Andromeda = ME2 in this matter are missing the point entirely and are making a wrong assessment.
|
|
VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
inherit
2579
0
Sept 18, 2021 9:17:16 GMT
1,429
VanSinn
576
January 2017
vansinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
VanSinn77
|
Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 18:39:08 GMT
Here's the thing with EDI: saying "shut it off" amounts to nothing. Distrusting it amounts to nothing. No matter what you say or do, it's still an important plot device, it's still going to save the Normandy and Joker's still going to fall in love with it.
And players are still going to gripe about "my choices don't matter."
Now come to SAM. Sure, BW could add options to not like, distrust or even get rid of SAM. But it wouldn't matter because SAM is still an important plot device, it's still going to save you and still going to allow you to interface with Remnant tech. And if BW added those options and they amounted to nothing, players would still be griping about "my choices don't matter." Its the nature of the beast.
But it does matter. It matter in your charater building, it matters for roleplaying. A Shepard that says "It's good to have an AI or board" is very different than one that says "shut that thing off!". Sure, when it comes to plot development, it doesn't matter. EDI will still to the same things and so on. But it matters for the player, and I cannot overstate how important that is. So I'd say that people who are saying Andromeda = ME2 in this matter are missing the point entirely and are making a wrong assessment. I agree here. I think OVERALL, the 4 different tones give a decent amount of personalization to "your" Ryder, but there were definitely situations like this that could have used, if not flat out needed, a different kind of response compared to the ones we got. ME2 was fairly egregious, though, in that we spent a good portion of the previous game cleaning up all of the various crap that Cerberus left lying around, and they went so far as to assassinate an Alliance Admiral. Being forced to join Cerberus in the sequel nearly made me drop the game and quit the series then and there. I stuck it out, and I did enjoy the game itself, but from that very first moment in ME2, I simply stopped looking at it as a trilogy. It was 3 different games, with kinda sorta the same plot, and kinda sorta the same characters, but there wasn't a whole lot tying them together.
|
|
LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,849
inherit
2060
0
1,849
LogicGunn
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
909
November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
|
Post by LogicGunn on Apr 21, 2017 18:44:58 GMT
It's your Ryder, not your character. You can't have a character entirely RP'd in a game with complex relationships, voice acting and an overreaching story. There has to be some base character writing. Sure, some things could have done with maybe one more choice, but nothing is perfect. Games like Mass Effect and the Witcher have a defined protagonist that you can RP within what is reasonable for their personality. Fallout is a good series if you want more RP in your protagonist, though even that has some kind of character limitation. Then I gues the original ME trilogy was just a dream. Shepard had some "base character writing" as well... no matter what background, Shepard was N7 by the start of the game. And the player had NO say in it whether we wanted to be a Spectre or not. And our choices were all tied to the bounds of the game: Paragon-Neutral-Renegade. That said, we (ok at least I) never had any feeling Shepard is "out of character" You could go all paragon and everything felt right, you could go all renegade and all felt right, you could go 80% paragon and do some renegade choices now and then and it still all felt just right. And whatever we did, it had a different outcome. Now look at Ryder, whatever option we choose (emotion, logic, casual, prof) the response we get from the NPC is quite often the same and varies just a little bit, and even worse, the outcome is almost always the same, except for some "big" decisions. If you go "all logic" or "prof" and then at some ocasion pick casual, Ryder feels very out of character. And as said, the NPC reactions are the same (I keep reading, mostly in profesional review, how my dialogue choices matter... they do not, tried it out more then once, saved, picked something, aha, loaded, picked something else.. aha the same, like always, almost always). Shepard was mine, whether you see it or not. Limited by the bounds set by the game, but it was still "me". Ryder... feels like playing an interactive movie game. PS: Mind, I am not saying the game is total BS and bad. It is playable, and enjoyable, more then ME3, to me, right now it does not achieve the "greatness" of ME1 and 2. however we choose to speak, the lines (responded by the NPC we talk to) SOMETIMES vary a bit (but more then often are the same) and the outcome is almost always the same I find the ability to have a logical character who responds emotionally to my LI very immersive. Or a character who is casual with her team but can be a professional diplomat. People aren't one thing in real life, we adapt to the situation we are in, and I love to have a game that allows you not to be limited by Good/Bad/Neutral. I find it the polar opposite of OOC. I also love how I make choices in the game, but they are almost always separate from the personality of Ryder. Save Sloan or don't, doesn't matter if you are logical or emotional, you can make the choice how you want to either way. Shep had just as much RP limitation as Ryder, but she has 3 games worth of consequences in our memories. ME1 had almost zero consequences to things we said and did, it wasn't till 2 and 3 that Shep's choices had an impact on the universe. MEA is doing the same thing. Shep will always be my girl, but I have room for Ryder too.
|
|
LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,849
inherit
2060
0
1,849
LogicGunn
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
909
November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
|
Post by LogicGunn on Apr 21, 2017 18:45:31 GMT
It's your Ryder, not your character. Yeah but I bet my Ryder is exactly the same as 50% of the player-base. Your Shepard was too.
|
|
inherit
2137
0
Dec 18, 2021 22:02:27 GMT
1,222
dropzofcrimzon
1,391
November 2016
dropzofcrimzon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
DropzOfCrimzon
|
Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 21, 2017 18:46:53 GMT
It is funny, I have been saying this for years (Nascimento knows this from the original BSN)
Within HOURS of his awakening Shepard is back at the citadel and within minutes of that he can be reinstated as a spectre with full blessing from the council and the alliance (admiral Hackett who flat out stonewalls attempts from alliance military to interfere with Shepard)....so why exactly would Shepard not throw Miranda and Jacob and the rest of the crew in jail and proceed to recruit the rest of the suicide squad under the authority of the council? Not to mention...torturing Miranda would have given us the location of TIM and likely allowed us to catch him during the events of ME2
But noooooo so much fucking better to backtrack and pretend Cerberus is something other than a terrorist organization with the competence level of a comic book villain
|
|
rpgmaster
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 220 Likes: 483
inherit
6259
0
Oct 18, 2017 22:12:20 GMT
483
rpgmaster
220
March 2017
rpgmaster
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by rpgmaster on Apr 21, 2017 19:03:43 GMT
Uhm. OP where were you during ME2??? On the BioWare forums criticising its awful story, terrible continuity, lame Hollywoodized gritty superhero action movie tone, gutted RPG mechanics and wasted potential from ME1.
|
|
dm04
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 342 Likes: 432
inherit
7767
0
432
dm04
342
Apr 17, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
April 2017
dm04
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dm04 on Apr 21, 2017 19:04:12 GMT
Yes, I would miss the inventory. The UI is retarded, but the inventory works. People think you can carry 50 sniper rifles around (the original inventory limit before the patch) at a time, or stacks of 5000 iron or omni-gel canisters. A TINY, MINISCULE amount of deductive reasoning shows that that is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RETARDED. The inventory limit IS WHAT YOU STORE ON THE TEMPEST. There is a realism element here. You store weapons you're not using, you take the weapons and gear with you that you're actually using. This is why you can have 10+ different consumable options, but only equip 2-4 types. Those are what you actually take with you. Crafting gives a customization element. One that needs improvement, I think but not scrapped. Mods serve to further customize. In ME2/ME3 there was no life to the economy. Every item, weapon or armor could be found in the exact same place at the exact same time. Each store had an entirely different inventory that was completely static, save for after different story gates. Hell, I wanted the game to stop giving me credits and stupidly placed items, and just put the damned things into my "inventory." It was that stupid. Having rank I-X of different weapons isn't the best idea, I'll grant that. I'd rather they come up with a different system for crafting in any sequel. But it's MILES ahead of ME2 and ME3. I've been an opponent of "loot systems" since ME1 at least. But I'd rather have that than the moronic way we acquired new gear in ME2/ME3. The Scanner could be seen in a similar light to what I described above, but it introduces a new gameplay mechanic that has more uses than simply "scan for minerals" or whatnot. It gives a plausible way to find out information we otherwise wouldn't have access to. So I do agree that there could have been a better introduction to the thing, this is an area where the gameplay/story segregation thing is just not an issue, unless people are simply trying to find things to bitch about in this game, because it's cool to jump on the hate train. ME:A has definite, legitimate issues. There are no denying that, and I've stated my dislike of several things in the past. This, and issues similar to it, are just reaching the point of the ridiculously absurd. You may not like the scanner, fine. It may not be a gameplay mechanic you enjoy. But at least be HONEST about the damned thing and say "I just don't like it" instead of finding the dumbest damned arguments to say WHY you don't like it. Eh, whatever. I'm done here. I'm just getting really sick and tired of hearing the same old stupid complaints that just a little bit of common sense would give an answer to, but people make out like it's the worst goddamned thing ever, and this game is absolute shit and HERE'S WHY! This is an interesting approach to the iventory. So basicaly, whatever you pick up is "beamed" right to the cargo bay of the tempest, even salvage that is only "sell stuff"? Going with that... inventory space is only limited to equippable items like weapons/armor/mods... are you telling me there is just room for 100 on the tempest? Well, 100 carnifex and the inv is full and they would not even fill half the kitchen. And you also bring up something interesting, we have to wake up colonists in order to have one consumable slot more, yay . If the inentory is the inventory of the tempest, we clearly need more "slots" (though do not know for what, 50 were enough, 100 are more then enough) and if it is your personal inventory, all the stuff you take should be counted (you have 30 shield capacitors on you? ok, but that is 30/100 slots taken). The ressources are... leave them be, we just dont know how they are measure... we cant store 5000t iron on the Tempest, on the other hand 5000g is like nothing... but I do not get the ressources. We find a large deposit of iron on a planet surface (planet scanning) but get only 80, on the other hand, it takes 100 to craft an armor... so, we picked 80t from the planet and used just 100kg for crafting? I do not know, it is so confusing. I would not remove the inventory, but I would not miss it if it were gone. Right now, if the inventory represents room on the Tempest, 100 is not enough, if it represpets your personal inventory, 100 is enough and everything should count (salvage too), but then we would have to go to a merchant every 10 minutes, since that is how the random encounters were designed (poor design), if a scenera (area) is loaded, mobs are back... clear a spot, drive away, return, mobs back. Yay. Crafting done RIGHt gives a customization element. And yah, I would not srap it, but it needs a LOT of work. Well... does MEA economy feel alive? I don't think so. There are merchants around, yup. They have stuff to sell, yup. But nothing I realy need. Occasionaly they got a mod I did not loot somewhere. Occasionaly there are some augmentations I could use (like Extended Modslot +2, or kinetic, or newtonian). I actualy never bought materials. Grey market cryo gives us access to "special inventories" but so far I have found nothing... the black market guy on Kadara is a joke, no different then the guy in Port itself or at the Nexus. And I do not know if buying Nomad paints make the economy more alive. Now... if out outposts would be attacked and we would have to equip our "colonists"... that would make sense for some of the merchants, as we can not craft everything. Well. The hubs are more "alive" with merchants around, but their "relevance" to the game is questionable. We could upgrade our weapons from I-X in ME3, here we have to do it manualy. Research first, craft later. Basic items are already researched. I actualy can not remember how we aquired gear in ME2 since in a New Game+ had actualy all weapons available. And ME3 had all weapons available as well. It does not matter whether we aquire new stuff by loot, merchant or crafting, without a purpose beside limination, there is no need for an inventory. I scrap anything anyway and if everything is stored on the Tempest and I can carry as many consumables with me as I please, then there is no need for an inventory. Is there a problem with the scanner I missed? I have a problem with SAM being everything, not the scanner and scanning. I actualy do not think a player needs the scanner to see a conduit/powerline below the surface to follow from a door to the right console, but I do not mind either if it is there. So teasing and joking aside. Inventory need work. Crafting need work. Merchants need a bigger purpose then just being there. And on the scanning thing, I think you mix me up with someone else .
|
|
inherit
2137
0
Dec 18, 2021 22:02:27 GMT
1,222
dropzofcrimzon
1,391
November 2016
dropzofcrimzon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
DropzOfCrimzon
|
Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 21, 2017 19:05:37 GMT
Uhm. OP where were you during ME2??? On the BioWare forums criticising its awful story, terrible continuity, lame Hollywoodized gritty superhero action movie tone, gutted RPG mechanics and wasted potential from ME1. it was rhetorical...
|
|
Sondergaard
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975
inherit
1505
0
Sept 27, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
975
Sondergaard
572
Sept 8, 2016 21:17:59 GMT
September 2016
sondergaard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
|
Post by Sondergaard on Apr 21, 2017 19:10:04 GMT
Yeah but I bet my Ryder is exactly the same as 50% of the player-base. Your Shepard was too. Rubbish. I'm on to my 6th Shepard and they're all different within the game. Yeah, the story plays out the same way with minor (and not so minor) differences, but my Shepards span an emotional and intellectual range from thug to thinker, all catered for in game.
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Apr 21, 2017 19:14:07 GMT
Now come to SAM. Sure, BW could add options to not like, distrust or even get rid of SAM. But it wouldn't matter because SAM is still an important plot device, it's still going to save you and still going to allow you to interface with Remnant tech. And if BW added those options and they amounted to nothing, players would still be griping about "my choices don't matter." Its the nature of the beast.
Frankly, the only problems I have with SAM is the constant repetition of this area can be mined for resources when I already opened the mining screen. Well, yes, that's what I opened it for. No reason to tell me after the fact. The other one, not sure if it's a glitch, a bug or whatever, there's the constant reminder of having new email when there's absolutely nothing in my inbox.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1818
0
Nov 29, 2024 10:31:46 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 29, 2024 10:31:46 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 19:15:53 GMT
I realized that Shepard wasn't my character during the first mission in ME1 - when she ran off to knock Kaidan away from the beam. Shepard also had to accept the cipher from Shiala and mind-meld with Liara to progress the story (among other things). I don't find the SAM implant any more intrusive than these examples from earlier games. Any adept, vanguard, or sentinel Shep also had a biotic implant and amp. I've always felt that way to a greater or lesser degree with any cinematic, voiced protag PC. We can go deeper and analyze one scene after another. But it serves noone. So basicaly you are right, Shep also did stuff without direct control of the player. As said, the char is bound by the story to some degree. What I speak about are the decisions. We DO decide what to say about SAM, but both are virtualy the same. We DO decide what to say, but it is the same in 4 different "tones" and the response is the same (renegade-neutral-paragon were all different and the outcome was all different). If you're referring to Shepard's initial reaction to EDI - the outcome was identical. EDI's participation remained the same. Well, it was in tune with the Shepard BioWare wrote. It was the first time I really recognized that Shepard wasn't going to be entirely under my control, and I needed to accept that fact. I was not at all happy when I learned that the PC in this game would have an AI implant - or a family, or be 22 years old, for that matter. Part of my process in deciding to purchase the game was choosing to accept that this was the PC I would be playing. Ryder accepted the SAM implant as part of the decision to join the Pathfinder Team - so I guess to me, that's all water under the bridge. Have you perchance gotten to the end of the game? I would agree that SAM is a lot more intrusive than I would have liked - but I think that calling SAM the protagonist is going too far. Ryder is the one who interacts with other characters, decides where to go/what to do at any given point, and makes all of the decisions to be made. But it does matter. It matter in your charater building, it matters for roleplaying. A Shepard that says "It's good to have an AI or board" is very different than one that says "shut that thing off!". Sure, when it comes to plot development, it doesn't matter. EDI will still to the same things and so on. But it matters for the player, and I cannot overstate how important that is. So I'd say that people who are saying Andromeda = ME2 in this matter are missing the point entirely and are making a wrong assessment. In general, I'd agree. However, I view Ryder as someone who'd accepted SAM as a partner in Pathfinding when s/he decided to join the team. S/he should have worked out any issues she had with it prior to having the implant surgery and leaving TMW. Although you were limited in what you can express about SAM, I've noticed other areas where Ryder has multiple opportunities to express an opinion about a topic. I've come across multiple opportunities to talk about faith/beliefs/religion - one with Suvi, one with Vederia, one with one of the angaran sages (I think?), plus there was the stuff with angaran reincarnation.
|
|
VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
inherit
2579
0
Sept 18, 2021 9:17:16 GMT
1,429
VanSinn
576
January 2017
vansinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
VanSinn77
|
Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 19:28:05 GMT
Yes, I would miss the inventory. The UI is retarded, but the inventory works. People think you can carry 50 sniper rifles around (the original inventory limit before the patch) at a time, or stacks of 5000 iron or omni-gel canisters. A TINY, MINISCULE amount of deductive reasoning shows that that is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RETARDED. The inventory limit IS WHAT YOU STORE ON THE TEMPEST. There is a realism element here. You store weapons you're not using, you take the weapons and gear with you that you're actually using. This is why you can have 10+ different consumable options, but only equip 2-4 types. Those are what you actually take with you. Crafting gives a customization element. One that needs improvement, I think but not scrapped. Mods serve to further customize. In ME2/ME3 there was no life to the economy. Every item, weapon or armor could be found in the exact same place at the exact same time. Each store had an entirely different inventory that was completely static, save for after different story gates. Hell, I wanted the game to stop giving me credits and stupidly placed items, and just put the damned things into my "inventory." It was that stupid. Having rank I-X of different weapons isn't the best idea, I'll grant that. I'd rather they come up with a different system for crafting in any sequel. But it's MILES ahead of ME2 and ME3. I've been an opponent of "loot systems" since ME1 at least. But I'd rather have that than the moronic way we acquired new gear in ME2/ME3. The Scanner could be seen in a similar light to what I described above, but it introduces a new gameplay mechanic that has more uses than simply "scan for minerals" or whatnot. It gives a plausible way to find out information we otherwise wouldn't have access to. So I do agree that there could have been a better introduction to the thing, this is an area where the gameplay/story segregation thing is just not an issue, unless people are simply trying to find things to bitch about in this game, because it's cool to jump on the hate train. ME:A has definite, legitimate issues. There are no denying that, and I've stated my dislike of several things in the past. This, and issues similar to it, are just reaching the point of the ridiculously absurd. You may not like the scanner, fine. It may not be a gameplay mechanic you enjoy. But at least be HONEST about the damned thing and say "I just don't like it" instead of finding the dumbest damned arguments to say WHY you don't like it. Eh, whatever. I'm done here. I'm just getting really sick and tired of hearing the same old stupid complaints that just a little bit of common sense would give an answer to, but people make out like it's the worst goddamned thing ever, and this game is absolute shit and HERE'S WHY! This is an interesting approach to the iventory. So basicaly, whatever you pick up is "beamed" right to the cargo bay of the tempest, even salvage that is only "sell stuff"? Going with that... inventory space is only limited to equippable items like weapons/armor/mods... are you telling me there is just room for 100 on the tempest? Well, 100 carnifex and the inv is full and they would not even fill half the kitchen. And you also bring up something interesting, we have to wake up colonists in order to have one consumable slot more, yay . If the inentory is the inventory of the tempest, we clearly need more "slots" (though do not know for what, 50 were enough, 100 are more then enough) and if it is your personal inventory, all the stuff you take should be counted (you have 30 shield capacitors on you? ok, but that is 30/100 slots taken). The ressources are... leave them be, we just dont know how they are measure... we cant store 5000t iron on the Tempest, on the other hand 5000g is like nothing... but I do not get the ressources. We find a large deposit of iron on a planet surface (planet scanning) but get only 80, on the other hand, it takes 100 to craft an armor... so, we picked 80t from the planet and used just 100kg for crafting? I do not know, it is so confusing. I would not remove the inventory, but I would not miss it if it were gone. Right now, if the inventory represents room on the Tempest, 100 is not enough, if it represpets your personal inventory, 100 is enough and everything should count (salvage too), but then we would have to go to a merchant every 10 minutes, since that is how the random encounters were designed (poor design), if a scenera (area) is loaded, mobs are back... clear a spot, drive away, return, mobs back. Yay. Crafting done RIGHt gives a customization element. And yah, I would not srap it, but it needs a LOT of work. Well... does MEA economy feel alive? I don't think so. There are merchants around, yup. They have stuff to sell, yup. But nothing I realy need. Occasionaly they got a mod I did not loot somewhere. Occasionaly there are some augmentations I could use (like Extended Modslot +2, or kinetic, or newtonian). I actualy never bought materials. Grey market cryo gives us access to "special inventories" but so far I have found nothing... the black market guy on Kadara is a joke, no different then the guy in Port itself or at the Nexus. And I do not know if buying Nomad paints make the economy more alive. Now... if out outposts would be attacked and we would have to equip our "colonists"... that would make sense for some of the merchants, as we can not craft everything. Well. The hubs are more "alive" with merchants around, but their "relevance" to the game is questionable. We could upgrade our weapons from I-X in ME3, here we have to do it manualy. Research first, craft later. Basic items are already researched. I actualy can not remember how we aquired gear in ME2 since in a New Game+ had actualy all weapons available. And ME3 had all weapons available as well. It does not matter whether we aquire new stuff by loot, merchant or crafting, without a purpose beside limination, there is no need for an inventory. I scrap anything anyway and if everything is stored on the Tempest and I can carry as many consumables with me as I please, then there is no need for an inventory. Is there a problem with the scanner I missed? I have a problem with SAM being everything, not the scanner and scanning. I actualy do not think a player needs the scanner to see a conduit/powerline below the surface to follow from a door to the right console, but I do not mind either if it is there. So teasing and joking aside. Inventory need work. Crafting need work. Merchants need a bigger purpose then just being there. And on the scanning thing, I think you mix me up with someone else . First of all, the post you quoted was in response to someone complaining about the scanner. That's why the scanner bit was in there, perhaps you missed it in the original post of mine that you quoted. Moving on, though... When you pick up a weapon in the field, you have the option to equip it there. If you do, there is a gameplay/story segregation thing that "skips" the storing it in the Tempest. Not a fan of that, since I don't like loot systems, but I covered that in my prior post to you. If you choose not to equip it, same gameplay/story segregation thing. The storage room we have available for gameplay items isn't the entire storage capability of the Tempest. There's OBVIOUSLY other storage areas for food, basic necessities, or what have you. But they're not gameplay relevant, so there's no gameplay element for them. I'm not saying this to be rude, but again, common sense provides an answer once again. Materials for crafting is...wonky. I won't deny that. I'd hafta do a proper sit-down and think on how I would change or improve a crafting system. What we have now isn't the worst thing ever, but it could definitely use improvement. My preference for an inventory/crafting thing is one of two seperate extremes. 1) go whole hog with no inventory, and no stores or any pretense at any economy. Give us a selection of "basic" weapons that we can choose from, and at various story gates make others available. But make the acquisition of those weapons make SENSE. "A new weapon is being tested at XYZ Lab, we acquired a few samples for testing." or "So-and-so we met has access to weapon plans we didn't have access to before" or whatever. Then we can mod them ala ME3. 2) Remove loot systems, and keep the research option, but remove the level 1-10 system. We research a weapon, we can either craft it if we want to dick around with materials and such, or it slowly becomes available to various vendors after a certain set of missions (to simulate time passing for the weapons to be created.) If we choose to craft, we have the opportunity to add various augments (as ME:A does) that give a slight boost to the weapon performance, to reward us for dicking with the materials and such. Having different qualities of mods can improve the weapon's capabilities without requiring us to craft more than one of the weapons, unless we simply want different augmentations (vintage heat sink vs electrical discharge, for example.) I would honestly prefer the second option, because it gives us the flexibility the ME:A system does, but makes the inventory system a little more useful because you're not just trying to store junk. I think, though, that the inventory system is a good thing because it forces us to prioritize, to choose which items we want to keep and which we want to get rid of. I understand people wanting to hoard, but that's the kinda thing you do in Bethesda games, not Bioware games. Go play Fallout 4 if you want one of everything, and store 'em in a box or something. I think a 40 or 50 item storage limit is more than plenty for this kinda thing, enough to have the things you want, but small enough to make you pick and choose.
|
|
inherit
2137
0
Dec 18, 2021 22:02:27 GMT
1,222
dropzofcrimzon
1,391
November 2016
dropzofcrimzon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
DropzOfCrimzon
|
Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 21, 2017 19:32:52 GMT
Regarding the crafting vs purchasing
WTF is up with augmentations???
Why can't I craft more than one per type? If I am not allowed to craft them where can I buy the ultra rare ones??
|
|
inherit
3164
0
Aug 19, 2021 11:58:46 GMT
426
souljahbill14
297
Jan 31, 2017 21:13:13 GMT
January 2017
souljahbill14
|
Post by souljahbill14 on Apr 21, 2017 20:05:09 GMT
This is why the Paragon/Renegade system was better. It wasn't spectacular and had some problems but at least you could respond to situations differently. In this game you're just agreeing in four different tones and it's just terrible. I couldn't disagree more. I only liked it in ME3. Hated it most in ME2. There's no reason the responses couldn't have been written MET-style in MEA. They just weren't. But having to pick a side before playing and always pressing up or down with no thought was lame. There was only one decision in ME1 and 2. Up or down. If you wanted to do a mixture of both, you had to exploit glitches to not be penalized.
|
|
brad2240
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 140 Likes: 320
inherit
3527
0
Jul 28, 2018 19:06:30 GMT
320
brad2240
140
Feb 12, 2017 18:07:45 GMT
February 2017
brad2240
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by brad2240 on Apr 21, 2017 20:09:28 GMT
But it does matter. It matter in your charater building, it matters for roleplaying. A Shepard that says "It's good to have an AI or board" is very different than one that says "shut that thing off!". Sure, when it comes to plot development, it doesn't matter. EDI will still to the same things and so on. But it matters for the player, and I cannot overstate how important that is. So I'd say that people who are saying Andromeda = ME2 in this matter are missing the point entirely and are making a wrong assessment.
I agree with your first statement, actually, it does matter to building your character. I probably could have worded it better and I apologize for failing to make my point clear.
The bolded part is what I was trying to say, though. In the context of this thread, the OP was talking about plot development, or rather plot destruction. He asks for an option to completely derail the plot and calls the lack of such an option "lame RP." Despite the fact that no ME game, and no Bioware game I know of, has ever let you destroy its plot in such a manner, and all have forced plot devices/squadmates/etc. on you that you might not want.
And if such options were present, for the sake of good character building, people like the OP would still be right here complaining that they can't roleplay because their choices don't change anything in the grand scheme of things.
Let me ask you this: By the point in the story of SAM "killing" Ryder, do you agree that Ryder accepts and trusts SAM? That's pretty well established, right? SAM only stopped Ryder's heart with his/her permission, and has previously stated that it needs Ryder alive and well. And if you do agree that Ryder trusts SAM, do you think it makes sense that he/she would suddenly stop after SAM has proven itself?
|
|
raikas
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 280 Likes: 340
inherit
6809
0
Feb 12, 2018 22:29:34 GMT
340
raikas
280
April 2017
raikas
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by raikas on Apr 21, 2017 20:14:18 GMT
Uhm. OP where were you during ME2??? On the BioWare forums criticising its awful story, terrible continuity, lame Hollywoodized gritty superhero action movie tone, gutted RPG mechanics and wasted potential from ME1. I was initially disappointed with the direction ME2 took as well, but at this point it's pretty clear that they're creating games with a more limited set of dialogue choices. Surely it's not a surprise at this point?
|
|
VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
inherit
2579
0
Sept 18, 2021 9:17:16 GMT
1,429
VanSinn
576
January 2017
vansinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
VanSinn77
|
Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 20:20:08 GMT
Regarding the crafting vs purchasing WTF is up with augmentations??? Why can't I craft more than one per type? If I am not allowed to craft them where can I buy the ultra rare ones?? Once you research them, you can start looting them, and in some cases, you can purchase them from vendors. My first run, I wound up with like 6 Shield Oscillators (or whatever the ones are called that you have to research, that gives +25% shields per kill) and 3 Vintage Heat sinks. They're out there. Just need to, yanno, look.
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Apr 21, 2017 20:47:15 GMT
On the BioWare forums criticising its awful story, terrible continuity, lame Hollywoodized gritty superhero action movie tone, gutted RPG mechanics and wasted potential from ME1. I was initially disappointed with the direction ME2 took as well, but at this point it's pretty clear that they're creating games with a more limited set of dialogue choices. Surely it's not a surprise at this point? It's along the lines of everything basically meaning the same, even if the options look differently. This is really a game where I was amazed by what my character was saying and how little it mattered. Btw, has anyone stumbled over anything that really mattered in the end? Apart from trying to bring everyone together and building outposts? I mean, before founding Podromos I'm warned that choosing military or science may make an impression and a different statement. Does it actually have any consequences? If so, they must be pretty well hidden.
|
|
VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
inherit
2579
0
Sept 18, 2021 9:17:16 GMT
1,429
VanSinn
576
January 2017
vansinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
VanSinn77
|
Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 20:57:55 GMT
I was initially disappointed with the direction ME2 took as well, but at this point it's pretty clear that they're creating games with a more limited set of dialogue choices. Surely it's not a surprise at this point? It's along the lines of everything basically meaning the same, even if the options look differently. This is really a game where I was amazed by what my character was saying and how little it mattered. Btw, has anyone stumbled over anything that really mattered in the end? Apart from trying to bring everyone together and building outposts? I mean, before founding Podromos I'm warned that choosing military or science may make an impression and a different statement. Does it actually have any consequences? If so, they must be pretty well hidden. Choosing military vs science for Prodromos doesn't alter a whole helluva lot, but there are definite differences in game. When speaking to the Angaran ambassador on the Nexus for the first time, if you chose Science, he's more willing to trust the Initiative races, and has his guards give up their guns. If you chose military, he won't give up the guns, but he'll restrict armed Angarans to guarding his ship, away from the rest of the populace. Choosing Military gives you more people in the final battle in Meridian, and Jaal has a few different lines depending on your choice. These are the things I can think of off the top of my head, there may be others, but if so they're minor even compared to the above. It's not a huge difference, but there is one, and it's enough of one that I can appreciate there being one.
|
|
inherit
5341
0
59
egeslean05
51
Mar 21, 2017 12:16:10 GMT
March 2017
egeslean05
|
Post by egeslean05 on Apr 21, 2017 21:01:07 GMT
(Slight Spoilers I guess) Everyone on a Pathfinder team has a SAM implant I think, and not just the Human Pathfinder team. When you first wake up, the first thing Lexi does is check your SAM implant, and she says if it's working correctly SAM sees everything that you see. Then you you reach the Salarian ship, their pathfinder took her SAM offline to hide, then your SAM interfaces with her, and she says it's good to hear a SAM in her head again. I think everyone on every Pathfinder team has a SAM implant so that they can record everything they see on the worlds they were going to, and receive Pathfinder codes. I just think something caused Ryder's SAM to interface with him/her on a deeper level because SAM had to interject itself into Ryder to save Ryder's life. But the entire game was confusing and inconsistent about all of this. On the Asari ship there was no transfer at the end. The captain just said who's next in line, someone raised their hand and she said you're Pathfinder now. There was no transfer of anything. But then on the Turian Ship it got even more confusing. In the opening of the game they made it seem like Alec giving the codes the Sara/Scott was imperative and critical. It seemed like if Alec didn't pass them on to Sara they would have been lost or something. But the Turian went to the SAM node on his Ark and got the Pathfinder codes from his SAM node. So Alec chose Sara over Cora, it wasn't done out of urgent need. Actually it's very easy to explain. Ryder!SAM is different than the other SAMs, it's more advanced and, at least when connected to one of the Ryders, is more deeply connected and integrated into them. When Alec was transferring SAM to Ryder, he had to allow SAM to fully integrate with them, also lock off memories and files, and set up those 'memory shard' things to (as far as the story goes) slow things down for Ryder so they don't get overwhelmed with everyone all at once. I'm 100% certain that if SAM was to be transferred to Cora, it would just transfer automatically with no fuss. The Pathfinder team (on all the ships, including the other Pathfinders) have the basic SAM implant, whereas the Ryders have better implants. The Asari SAM transferred to the one next in line as soon as the other Pathfinder died. SAM isn't a physical thing in them that needs to be handed off, it's in the Arc communicating through their communication systems, that's why it can be blocked, like on Habitat 7.
Wasn't the Turian SAM damaged before being able to transfer the codes from the previous Pathfinder to the next in line, and could only complete that action once Ryder!SAM was there to help fix it?
The Salarian SAM was shut down and the connection to the Pathfinder was cut to try and hide the Pathfinder so they could save the crew...later...I guess (stupid). I'm going to guess it would take a bit of time to restart SAM, not to mention that sort of power draw to a single point on the ship would be immediately noticeable to anybody watching (and if you have a ship captured like they did, you'd be watching).
|
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Apr 21, 2017 21:02:30 GMT
It's along the lines of everything basically meaning the same, even if the options look differently. This is really a game where I was amazed by what my character was saying and how little it mattered. Btw, has anyone stumbled over anything that really mattered in the end? Apart from trying to bring everyone together and building outposts? I mean, before founding Podromos I'm warned that choosing military or science may make an impression and a different statement. Does it actually have any consequences? If so, they must be pretty well hidden. Choosing military vs science for Prodromos doesn't alter a whole helluva lot, but there are definite differences in game. When speaking to the Angaran ambassador on the Nexus for the first time, if you chose Science, he's more willing to trust the Initiative races, and has his guards give up their guns. Interesting, since I was perfectly able to persuade the Angaran to give up their guns when choosing military.
|
|
indrexu
N3
Certified Gay Mess™
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 381 Likes: 767
inherit
4473
0
May 25, 2017 23:54:15 GMT
767
indrexu
Certified Gay Mess™
381
March 2017
indrexu
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by indrexu on Apr 21, 2017 21:04:17 GMT
Btw, has anyone stumbled over anything that really mattered in the end? Apart from trying to bring everyone together and building outposts? I mean, before founding Podromos I'm warned that choosing military or science may make an impression and a different statement. Does it actually have any consequences? If so, they must be pretty well hidden. Well, what do you mean by "really mattered"? There are a shit ton of side quests and crit path missions that involve choices that can change aspects of the final mission. There are allies that show up, both in cutscenes and on the ground with you, or don't show up as the case may be. Your decisions can also change the way some of the fights work (number and type of enemies, for example). Is that something that "really matters" to you? The reactivity in this game is better than in any other modern BioWare game. That doesn't mean that every single thing you do has Consequences, nor that every player will always find the Consequences meaningful or worthwhile. The Prodromos outpost decision has a relatively small amount of reactivity. It changes some dialogue in Prodromos-related conversations, and a military outpost on Prodromos will contribute troops to the final battle. Which is still bigger than zero. Is that "real" to you? YMMV.
|
|