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Post by Iddy on May 30, 2017 11:31:09 GMT
I'd like to know if there are any conversations where you thought one of the characters could have countered the argument used by the other person, but stayed silent or admitted to being "wrong"about the subject. You may bring up examples from any of the three games.
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Post by Warrick on May 30, 2017 11:39:55 GMT
Bull and Cassandra.
"So I'm not truly a woman to you?" "Depends, in or out of that armour?"
Haha very funny Bull and very nice evasive. Now please answer the question.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 11:42:01 GMT
It's hard to give an example from DAI because of that fucking bater bug. In DA2 there is a banter of Fenris and Anders about Anders being an abomination, and Anders has the last word by saying it doesn't take to be an abomination to kill people (or something like that) and Fenris stops talking. I feel like he should've defended his idea since he only "fists" people who are slavers or blood mages.
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Post by Iddy on May 30, 2017 11:45:30 GMT
It's hard to give an example from DAI because of that fucking bater bug. In DA2 there is a banter of Fenris and Anders about Anders being an abomination, and Anders has the last word by saying it doesn't take to be an abomination to kill people (or something like that) and Fenris stops talking. I feel like he should've defend ederim his idea since he only "fists" people who are slavers or blood mages. Yeah, I thought of that one too. Fenris can choose not to kill children or bystanders. An abomination makes no distinction.
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Post by Catilina on May 30, 2017 11:46:08 GMT
It's hard to give an example from DAI because of that fucking bater bug. In DA2 there is a banter of Fenris and Anders about Anders being an abomination, and Anders has the last word by saying it doesn't take to be an abomination to kill people (or something like that) and Fenris stops talking. I feel like he should've defend ederim his idea since he only "fists" people who are slavers or blood mages. But he killed others too ... the Fog Warriors, for example. Probably this is why he didn't reply.
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Post by Iddy on May 30, 2017 11:49:02 GMT
Great, Catilina is here. Let us hope the incoming Anders debate doesn't overtake the thread. Bull also tries to avoid the question about whether it would be good if Thedas dominated the Qun, but Solas was having none of that BS and got an answer out of him.
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Post by leadintea on May 30, 2017 11:56:50 GMT
Welp. Let the Vivienne bitching commence.
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Post by Catilina on May 30, 2017 11:59:00 GMT
Great, Catilina is here. Let us hope the incoming Anders debate doesn't overtake the thread.
Bull also tries to avoid the question about whether it would be good if Thedas dominated the Qun, but Solas was having none of that BS and got an answer out of him. At your service. I'm glad that you're happy. I always try to meet the expectations and fulfill the desires.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 30, 2017 15:34:38 GMT
Dorian talking about slavery, which to me was so clearly written for a human Inquisitor. With my Dalish Inquisitor it made him seem so utterly ignorant that he wouldn't appreciate why I might feel so strongly on the matter and yet he had the last word. I wish there had been an extra dialogue for my Dalish to explain exactly why they feel so strongly on the issue.
What makes it worse is that if you bring up the slavery issue when he talks about you being a Dalish, he disapproves, yet if Sera makes exactly the same sort of comment with regard to him saying she is an elf, he is okay with it. It's like when Dorian apologises to Solas for what Tevinter did to his people, which is doubly annoying considering neither Solas, nor Abelas, think modern elves are their people.
Actually I found another one on You tube today regarding Solas. If a female Inquisitor asks him about a gift for Sera, Solas disapproves and says he wouldn't know since "she has turned her back on what we should be". Hold on Solas, don't you criticise the other elves for their pathetic attempts at trying to remember? Make up you mind.
Also when Solas talks to Abelas and translates what he said for our benefit, a Dalish would know that it wasn't what he said. "Why are you lying, Solas?", along with "Why does he recognise you as one of his people and not me?"
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Post by simit on May 30, 2017 16:02:48 GMT
am playing on xbone the now, silence i get mostly, tumbleweeds an flies
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Post by Ean'Harel on May 30, 2017 16:07:18 GMT
(newbie here, don't bite my head off quite yet ) Pretty much everything you said, Gervaise! Some dialogues were retrofitted for elves, with special options, but quite a lot are clearly designed for non-Dalish Inkys; and sometimes in almost the same scene. I did the Temple of Mythal last night, where one moment my very-elfy-Inquisitor was wondering who Mythal was, then stated that of course elves had statues of Fen'Harel in their camps, which made me feel all wise and stuff... until Morrigan felt that she needed to translate "Well of Sorrows" for him. He didn't understand what Solas told Abelas, either... even though he seemed pretty fluent during Solas' personal quest. It leads me to wonder if my poor Inky fell on his head when he plopped off the Fade. Regarding Solas, I love the dude, but whenever he states something absurd such as "Oh you feel sorry about old stuff the Vints did, Dorian? Easy fix. Free all the slaves!", Vivienne should barge in, pat him on the head, and finish it off with a "That's nice, dear."
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Post by Iddy on May 30, 2017 16:22:29 GMT
(newbie here, don't bite my head off quite yet ) Pretty much everything you said, Gervaise! Some dialogues were retrofitted for elves, with special options, but quite a lot are clearly designed for non-Dalish Inkys; and sometimes in almost the same scene. I did the Temple of Mythal last night, where one moment my very-elfy-Inquisitor was wondering who Mythal was, then stated that of course elves had statues of Fen'Harel in their camps, which made me feel all wise and stuff... until Morrigan felt that she needed to translate "Well of Sorrows" for him. He didn't understand what Solas told Abelas, either... even though he seemed pretty fluent during Solas' personal quest. By Andruil's tits, am I tired of seeing people complain about that. What about the fact that Lavellan can explain his/her clan's beliefs about different elven gods when you activate each codex at the temple of Mythal? And all those times you get to actually speak elven like you do when meeting Mihris, when marrying Cullen or at the end of Trespasser? What about the fact that you can tell both Cassandra and Mother Giselle that you have your own gods? Doesn't any of that count at all?
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Post by Ean'Harel on May 30, 2017 17:12:54 GMT
(newbie here, don't bite my head off quite yet ) Pretty much everything you said, Gervaise! Some dialogues were retrofitted for elves, with special options, but quite a lot are clearly designed for non-Dalish Inkys; and sometimes in almost the same scene. I did the Temple of Mythal last night, where one moment my very-elfy-Inquisitor was wondering who Mythal was, then stated that of course elves had statues of Fen'Harel in their camps, which made me feel all wise and stuff... until Morrigan felt that she needed to translate "Well of Sorrows" for him. He didn't understand what Solas told Abelas, either... even though he seemed pretty fluent during Solas' personal quest. By Andruil's tits, am I tired of seeing people complain about that. What about the fact that Lavellan can explain his/her clan's beliefs about different elven gods when you activate each codex at the temple of Mythal? And all those times you get to actually speak elven like you do when meeting Mihris, when marrying Cullen or at the end of Trespasser? What about the fact that you can tell both Cassandra and Mother Giselle that you have your own gods? Doesn't any of that count at all? So much for a nice welcome. I've lurked a bit before joining; still, you can't expect me to know what people constantly complain about. What I've seen so far, mostly, is people complaining about DA:I being open world. Now, as to what's wrong with it? For me, it's the lack of consistency. I'm happy to accept that Lavellan isn't fluent in ancient Elvhen -- frankly, he shouldn't be; but in one scene he is, in the next one he isn't. In one scene he pretty much doesn't seem to know who Mythal is; in the next he teaches Morrigan a bit about (modern) Elvhen culture. I understand a lot can be explained by the fact the game was initially designed for a human-only Inky, so I *do* make allowances, gladly so, and sing la-la-la when my Inky says something he really shouldn't, as an elf. I also think the "shemsplaining" options should remain, even for Dalish Inquisitors, simply because players may not have played Dragon Age before, so a bit of exposition is required. Doesn't stop me from rolling my eyes at times, though. Re. extra elfy-elf bits: I've never romanced Cullen (and probably never will), so I didn't know that; nice touch though. As for shouting over the roofs that my Inquisitor doesn't believe in the Maker, yes, I've done that, for all the good it did. I was glad to have the option.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 17:22:07 GMT
By Andruil's tits, am I tired of seeing people complain about that. What about the fact that Lavellan can explain his/her clan's beliefs about different elven gods when you activate each codex at the temple of Mythal? And all those times you get to actually speak elven like you do when meeting Mihris, when marrying Cullen or at the end of Trespasser? What about the fact that you can tell both Cassandra and Mother Giselle that you have your own gods? Doesn't any of that count at all? So much for a nice welcome. I've lurked a bit before joining; still, you can't expect me to know what people constantly complain about. What I've seen so far, mostly, is people complaining about DA:I being open world. Now, as to what's wrong with it? For me, it's the lack of consistency. I'm happy to accept that Lavellan isn't fluent in ancient Elvhen -- frankly, he shouldn't be; but in one scene he is, in the next one he isn't. In one scene he pretty much doesn't seem to know who Mythal is; in the next he teaches Morrigan a bit about (modern) Elvhen culture. I understand a lot can be explained by the fact the game was initially designed for a human-only Inky, so I *do* make allowances, gladly so, and sing la-la-la when my Inky says something he really shouldn't, as an elf. I also think the "shemsplaining" options should remain, even for Dalish Inquisitors, simply because players may not have played Dragon Age before, so a bit of exposition is required. Doesn't stop me from rolling my eyes at times, though. Re. extra elfy-elf bits: I've never romanced Cullen (and probably never will), so I didn't know that; nice touch though. As for shouting over the roofs that my Inquisitor doesn't believe in the Maker, yes, I've done that, for all the good it did. I was glad to have the option. It is worse for other races. They give you an option here and there, but then it goes forgotten for the most part. It's just, the game already feels like it is elven and human centric, so Qunari and Dwarves get it worse, their lore not really featured, and their background not reflected or shown at all. It is a touch of a sensitive issue for me tbh, particularly because the female elf gets hugely preferential treatment over all other characters in the romantic department.
It's really sad to abandon a character you really like because it is not particularly fun to play. So just narrowing it to "elves don't get enough elvish content" is a bit out of touch with the gaming reality.
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Post by Ean'Harel on May 30, 2017 18:26:17 GMT
It is worse for other races. They give you an option here and there, but then it goes forgotten for the most part. It's just, the game already feels like it is elven and human centric, so Qunari and Dwarves get it worse, their lore not really featured, and their background not reflected or shown at all. It is a touch of a sensitive issue for me tbh, particularly because the female elf gets hugely preferential treatment over all other characters in the romantic department.
It's really sad to abandon a character you really like because it is not particularly fun to play. So just narrowing it to "elves don't get enough elvish content" is a bit out of touch with the gaming reality.
It's definitely not what I meant... there's definitely a lot of elvish content. I have yet to play a non-elf (I finished my first playthrough about a week ago). My next character will probably be a dwarf or a qunari, but I'm on the fence exactly because of what you said. I want my dwarf to say dwarven/carta-related stuff, and my qunari telling me off for calling them a qunari rather than a vashoth. I know I won't get that, and I also understand why, but it is, indeed, sad. I suspect I'll have to do a lot of head-cannoning, a lot more than what I've done with my elf. I'm not sure how well I can fill in the blanks -- especially for the vashoth, as I know pretty much nothing about them. Easier to roleplay an elf and ignore the things my Inky wouldn't say, than to roleplay a Vashoth when I don't have the foggiest clue what they would do differently.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 18:35:29 GMT
It is worse for other races. They give you an option here and there, but then it goes forgotten for the most part. It's just, the game already feels like it is elven and human centric, so Qunari and Dwarves get it worse, their lore not really featured, and their background not reflected or shown at all. It is a touch of a sensitive issue for me tbh, particularly because the female elf gets hugely preferential treatment over all other characters in the romantic department.
It's really sad to abandon a character you really like because it is not particularly fun to play. So just narrowing it to "elves don't get enough elvish content" is a bit out of touch with the gaming reality.
It's definitely not what I meant... there's definitely a lot of elvish content. I have yet to play a non-elf (I finished my first playthrough about a week ago). My next character will probably be a dwarf or a qunari, but I'm on the fence exactly because of what you said. I want my dwarf to say dwarven/carta-related stuff, and my qunari telling me off for calling them a qunari rather than a vashoth. I know I won't get that, and I also understand why, but it is, indeed, sad. I suspect I'll have to do a lot of head-cannoning, a lot more than what I've done with my elf. I'm not sure how well I can fill in the blanks -- especially for the vashoth, as I know pretty much nothing about them. Easier to roleplay an elf and ignore the things my Inky wouldn't say, than to roleplay a Vashoth when I don't have the foggiest clue what they would do differently. Well, fwiw, you will have conversation with Bull if you recruit him, who will rub your nose in the dirt about who you are definitely not a Qunari or anything really, but (maybe) a Kossith. At best. Most of the Qunari content that I saw was negative. Though I did feel sort of a need to refer to my character as a Bas proudly after killing Bull.
I've abandoned a female Qunari, and completed a male Qunari run. Doing an elf now, and I can only wish that in DA4, a Qunari gets as much nice things as I see for an elf at least in the beginning of the game And I don't even like Dalish, but who can argue with LI choices...
I have not played a Dwarf yet, so I can't tell. Qunari is my thing, and I could not help but be disappointed.
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Post by Iddy on May 30, 2017 18:40:57 GMT
It is worse for other races. They give you an option here and there, but then it goes forgotten for the most part. It's just, the game already feels like it is elven and human centric, so Qunari and Dwarves get it worse, their lore not really featured, and their background not reflected or shown at all. It is a touch of a sensitive issue for me tbh, particularly because the female elf gets hugely preferential treatment over all other characters in the romantic department.
It's really sad to abandon a character you really like because it is not particularly fun to play. So just narrowing it to "elves don't get enough elvish content" is a bit out of touch with the gaming reality.
It's definitely not what I meant... there's definitely a lot of elvish content. I have yet to play a non-elf (I finished my first playthrough about a week ago). My next character will probably be a dwarf or a qunari, but I'm on the fence exactly because of what you said. I want my dwarf to say dwarven/carta-related stuff, and my qunari telling me off for calling them a qunari rather than a vashoth. I know I won't get that, and I also understand why, but it is, indeed, sad. I suspect I'll have to do a lot of head-cannoning, a lot more than what I've done with my elf. I'm not sure how well I can fill in the blanks -- especially for the vashoth, as I know pretty much nothing about them. Easier to roleplay an elf and ignore the things my Inky wouldn't say, than to roleplay a Vashoth when I don't have the foggiest clue what they would do differently. A Vashoth wouldn't do anything differently. It basically is a "Qunari" who was born outside Par Vollen and therefore has no connection to that culture. Honestly, even the idea that Adaar's parents passed down their heritage is kinda shaky, because if they thought the Qun's values were worth learning they wouldn't have left in the first place. In short... it's pretty much like playing a human mercenary that looks funny.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 18:47:33 GMT
It's definitely not what I meant... there's definitely a lot of elvish content. I have yet to play a non-elf (I finished my first playthrough about a week ago). My next character will probably be a dwarf or a qunari, but I'm on the fence exactly because of what you said. I want my dwarf to say dwarven/carta-related stuff, and my qunari telling me off for calling them a qunari rather than a vashoth. I know I won't get that, and I also understand why, but it is, indeed, sad. I suspect I'll have to do a lot of head-cannoning, a lot more than what I've done with my elf. I'm not sure how well I can fill in the blanks -- especially for the vashoth, as I know pretty much nothing about them. Easier to roleplay an elf and ignore the things my Inky wouldn't say, than to roleplay a Vashoth when I don't have the foggiest clue what they would do differently. A Vashoth wouldn't do anything differently. It basically is a "Qunari" who was born outside Par Vollen and therefore has no connection to that culture. Honestly, even the idea that Adaar's parents passed down their heritage is kinda shaky, because if they thought the Qun's values were worth learning they wouldn't have left in the first place. In short... it's pretty much like playing a human mercenary that looks funny. I did not. There are differences. For example, my character was the first in his family to be given a name at birth. He does stand seven foot tall with a fine rack of antlers, so he is a visible minority. He also is on a receiving end from racial slur from his lover in Trespasser, and could not react. Finally, if I ever run my second Qunari, or my canon Inquisitor continued into DA4, I'd call myself Bas as a badge of honour. There is a certain mindset of being a visible immigrant from a country that is basically considered hostile, particularly if you are a second generation, and have neither intergrated, nor have interest or illusions in your own land.
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Post by Ean'Harel on May 30, 2017 18:49:00 GMT
Thanks, that's good to know! And I'm *so* going to reject Bull's offer for an alliance once I play my Vashoth... Why would I, a Vashoth, ally myself with the Qun? Nope. No way. That's probably the only thing I know about my (still potential) "Qunari" character. Shame about The Bull, but hey.
(I can't bring myself to sacrifice the Chargers. I'm a softie.)
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Post by phoray on May 30, 2017 18:52:15 GMT
have Leliana in my party a lot for once. Simultaneously, I also have Morrigan.
Lel is pushing religion on Morrigan, Morrigan is having none of it, and then Leliana essentially accuses Morrigan of lacking love and friendship and even a jab at low self esteem in general
This is not a religious argument at all at this point, but a personal attack to try to "win" on Lel's part. Morrigan gets flustered and shuts upand one can easily imagine a smug look on Lel's behalf.
Morrigan should have pointedout the obvious red herring and shrugged it off
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Post by Lazarillo on May 30, 2017 19:38:35 GMT
Thanks, that's good to know! And I'm *so* going to reject Bull's offer for an alliance once I play my Vashoth... Why would I, a Vashoth, ally myself with the Qun? Nope. No way. That's probably the only thing I know about my (still potential) "Qunari" character. Shame about The Bull, but hey. (I can't bring myself to sacrifice the Chargers. I'm a softie.) I dunno, Adaar's parents were rebels, so if Adaar were rebellious by nature, s/he might rebel against their parents' rebellion, and thus, be more interested in the Qun. Or maybe that was just my Adaar. On the topic of banter, Shale has a couple that end in some weaseling, both in a giving and taking sort of way. Oghren points out some inconsistencies in Shale's story but rather than keep pushing decides to wait for her to "screw up". Similarly, Shale questions Morrigan's motives until Morrigan threatens to turn into a bird and...hover. In neither case do we get any answers. Vivienne gets a ton of "freebies", too. It's a wonder almost anyone even bothers to acknowledge her in the first place.
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Post by Warrick on May 30, 2017 22:25:14 GMT
Tallis telling Varric the qunari can steal anything they want from others because "things are just things, they belong to everyone". Except when someone takes something from them, in which case it's not a thing anymore but a "soul". Come on that's such a cop-out.
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Post by lordofwar on May 31, 2017 0:33:41 GMT
Solas's banters with Varric about the fall of the Dwarves and with Sera about the Jennies are the worst for me. Solas is right both times, but he concedes the point for no real reason.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 31, 2017 0:39:11 GMT
Bull and Cassandra. "So I'm not truly a woman to you?" "Depends, in or out of that armour?" Haha very funny Bull and very nice evasive. Now please answer the question. I'm not sure that was an evasion. Since Qunari don't consider fighters women and don't consider women fighters, and since Cassandra doesn't identify as a man and enjoys traditionally feminine things when she's not fighting, Bull might honestly consider her putting on armor to be her changing genders. Solas's banters with Varric about the fall of the Dwarves and with Sera about the Jennies are the worst for me. Solas is right both times, but he concedes the point for no real reason. Does he? In Sera's case it seems to me that he goes in assuming she wants power, when really she's scared of it and wants someone else to have it, but for that someone else to be scared to misuse it. It seems to me that Solas drops the argument because he figures out what her goal is, and that what he suggests won't get it for her. As for Varric, Solas seems to be saying that Varric should do whatever he can to keep fighting even if it's hopeless, rather than give in to the inevitable destruction of Orzammar. I'll admit that I'm less sure I understand what's going on here, but it seems to me Varric says that it's not going to work no matter how hard he tries, and that it's better (and not necessarily cowardly) to accept it and make something new where it's possible to do so.
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Post by Warrick on May 31, 2017 13:36:56 GMT
The conversations about faith between Fenris and Sebastian.
"The Maker has a plan for everyone" "My master killed a boy to entertain his guests at a party. What was the plan there?" "Perhaps you needed to see that to make sure it wouldn't happen again"
That's very fine Sebastian, I guess Anders blowing up the Chantry had to happen too then. Chill out about Elthina, it's all for a good cause.
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