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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 16:40:06 GMT
Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck are both bad at being Batman and Superman because they look nothing like those Seriously though, I think Gal Gadot is amazing, shes a great actress and she plays a good part, I dont think they could have found someone better to play Wonderwoman Also, DC is a multiverse so er other versions of wonderwoman will exist including ones which look like what people expect which is something along the lines of a famous actress to constantly drink protein shakes and work out which would probably cost a lot of money, and then they probably would have to buy more clothes because they wouldnt fit in the ones they usually wear, just to play a part and then spend more time returning to how they usually are which REALLY cant be healthy just to look like something close to a character in a comic book who really arent the best for realism/body proportions anyhow Even with all the changes Id make to the DC movies, basically involving lots of crossovers... Christian Bales Batman, the CW Flash... I wouldnt touch Gal Gadot being wonderwoman But come on, the Flash's lightning is blue and Batman murders people, its obviously an alternate universe anyhow
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on May 31, 2017 18:38:26 GMT
That's some claim- got sources on it? You may have done military service but that doesn't mean your experiences will be the same as those from another country, though there may be several common elements. Back when I joined the military I spent a lot of time exploring the military training of various ( mostly western) countries that have a draft, most of them are very basic and roughly the same in training goals and performance. The IDF is especially known for having a very friendly and relaxed military system with low performance standards for their recruits who do mandatory service, especially for women. Not wanting to downplay their performance in any way, their professional army enjoys very good training. Of course I cannot claim to know everything about it without first hand experience bit it absolutely does feel a little like a serious summer camp with shooting. Also, I have friends who joined special branches of the armed forces, my countries equivalent of the SWAT team and our equivalent of the Green Berets. Holy cow, that has nothing to do with standard military service time. They're doing extreme stuff, their physical requirements are an excellent mix of endurance and brute strength you have to train for years to achieve, and they even have to learn how to resist torture. With actual torture. Without knowing what her training really looked like - whenever I read those magazines where famous actresses or models spill their guts about their painful exercise regime -for a movie or stage performance- I have to laugh out so loud. The male actors usually spend some time lifting weights and running which is ok but the female actors or models spend horrible time with stretching, working out with extremely light weights or doing pilates mixed with light running. Oh boy. I have yet to read about a legit tough exercise regime for female actresses. To take Cavils' performance as Superman, his training and diet was legit and hard. I have yet to see an actress doing a third of that for a role. I am a normal human being - I'm a good example of what a completely average guy can do if he just focuses hard enough. Most people could achieve my results. Again, without knowing her exact training schedule its a bit hard to judge, but if it was like all those other Hollywood fitness programs then I have to laugh. Those are ridiculous and barely qualify as absolute beginners exercises for introducing out of shape people into the world of sports. Gald Gadot does not look like she has touched any weights at all, I would be very surprised if she possessed any strength beyond that for a perfectly normal untrained woman. There is many lifters that don't pack a lot of muscle but are relatively strong, but there are still some key features that give away their strength. Core width is a good example, or neck muscles which are impossible to avoid growing when doing strength exercises. I can't see any of those subtle clues in Gadot. Without wanting to boast, for once I think I am qualified to have a legit opinion about this. Working out for Wonder Woman would have been very easy though, as I already mentioned most Women who do spend some quality time in the Gym look like her. This would have been very far from method acting. We don't know what she was doing for her ''practical physicality'', all I can say is that she doesn't look considerably stronger than the average woman which she should have according to the comics. Yes, big muscles alone doe not automatically equal strength but muscle size is still very important for strength, what many people do not understand is you need big muscle, the right training and CNS connection to become strong. Just picking one of those things like many people like to fantasize about does not work. Bruce Lee would be an excellent example for possessing a good amount of practical strength and fitness, and he spent tons of time lifting weights for his movies for muscle size. He was wiry but still muscular, perfect for a martial arts fighter and perfect for his role. A lot of things were different back then. We should focus on making things better.
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Post by Lady Artifice on May 31, 2017 18:45:25 GMT
But can we all agree that Batman versus Superman was horrible?
I'm kidding. I know we can't.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 18:53:02 GMT
But can we all agree that Batman versus Superman was horrible? I'm kidding. I know we can't.
It was ok I think, it had its problems and there are many things I would have done differently, but its an enjoyable movie Would have been better with Christian Bales Batman and Grant Gustins The Flash thats for sure... oh well
Just as a general thing: I think actresses would find it very hard to 'bulk up' for a role... they often have other responsibilities like modelling and/or fashion, that isnt to say that men dont but having big muscles would probably help in that to some extent whereas it would do the opposite for most actresses
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 18:57:34 GMT
But can we all agree that Batman versus Superman was horrible? I'm kidding. I know we can't. Great casting, bad script, and to many over the top sequences. The Batman fighting goons scenes were pretty damn awesome and brutal. Felt like there was some inspiration from the Arkham series in how Batfleck fights.
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 31, 2017 19:31:43 GMT
I am a normal human being - I'm a good example of what a completely average guy can do if he just focuses hard enough. Most people could achieve my results. Again, without knowing her exact training schedule its a bit hard to judge, but if it was like all those other Hollywood fitness programs then I have to laugh. Those are ridiculous and barely qualify as absolute beginners exercises for getting out of shape people into the game of sports. Gald Gadot does not look like she has touched any weights at all, I would be very surprised if she possessed any strength beyond that for a perfectly normal untrained woman. There is many lifters that don't pack a lot of muscle but are relatively strong, but there are still some key features that give away their strength. Core width is a good example, and so are neck muscles which are basically impossible to avoid growing when doing strength exercises. I can't see any of those subtle clues in Gadot. Without wanting to boast, for once I think I have the experience and abilities to have a legit opinion about this. I don't know- I still reserve the right to suspect some type of demigod lineage. Fair enough about the rest. We don't know what she was doing for her ''practical physicality'', all I can say is that she doesn't look considerably stronger than the average woman which she should have according to the comics. Eh, I guess I can just leave this with personal opinon- the character is magical, so she doesn't have to. In the context of the fictional universe, she seems to have the strength necessary for what she needs to get done. Indeed the argument might be made that with "magic" or "superpowers" doing most of the actual heavy lifting, muscles would actually not develop as much as they would on a normal human. I mean, muscles basically grow to adapt to the strain that's constantly being put on them via working out, right? But if you never have to strain to do anything, why should the muscles grow? From that sense, maybe Cavill should've taken it easy too. Superman's been absorbing sunlight all his life and he was alread strong enough to lift a bus like it was nothing as a teenager. So to gain musclemass the way a human would he'd have to work out with... what, steel coils? Literal 10 ton weights? Regardless of whether you buy into that argument or not I actually enjoy the subversion of that expectation. There's an interesting book series by Fred Saberhagen that deconstructs/retells some of the Greek Myths. The Books of the Gods. Would recommend, it has an interesting premise (the take on the gods themselves) outside of this topic. Anyway, I started out with the third book The Arms of Hercules, which is obivously about Hercules. Now in most depictions Hercules is well, a hulk, as befitting a hero that symbolizes strength. But in this book he appears completely average, even skinny. But of course it's the power of the gods that runs through his veins and gives him his strength. Quite a few underestimate him as a result. The reason for this is explained in the plot and I won't give it away, but I just found that neat. But can we all agree that Batman versus Superman was horrible? I'm kidding. I know we can't. Not as horrible as some make it. They Spider-Man 3'd it (too much shit shoved in, not because they needed it but because they could). That's more or less the gist of it.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:00:10 GMT
I mean, muscles basically grow to adapt to the strain that's constantly being put on them via working out, right? But if you never have to strain to do anything, why should the muscles grow? From that sense, maybe Cavill should've taken it easy too. Superman's been absorbing sunlight all his life and he was alread strong enough to lift a bus like it was nothing as a teenager. So to gain musclemass the way a human would he'd have to work out with... what, steel coils? Literal 10 ton weights?
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Post by Lady Artifice on May 31, 2017 20:38:33 GMT
But can we all agree that Batman versus Superman was horrible? I'm kidding. I know we can't. Not as horrible as some make it. They Spider-Man 3'd it (too much shit shoved in, not because they needed it but because they could). That's more or less the gist of it. It was so much more than that. The dialogue was stilted, awkward, and faux-edgy ("I'm not a lady, I'm a journalist"). The fight scenes were dull and hazily filmed. The characterization was weird. Even setting aside my irritation about the new adjustments they deemed necessary to Batman, like his being so chill with criminal on criminal murder, his being swayed from a sworn purpose by some random commonality like a person's name is one of the least compelling and inventive possible resolutions they could have come up with. Worse, it was all rushed until the funeral scene, which was painfully slow. Especially for audiences that are, on average, not remotely fooled.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on May 31, 2017 20:39:48 GMT
I don't know- I still reserve the right to suspect some type of demigod lineage. If anything my lineage is demonic. :dirty:
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Post by Nightman on May 31, 2017 20:45:30 GMT
everybody needs more Juri in their lives
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on May 31, 2017 21:05:57 GMT
But can we all agree that Batman versus Superman was horrible? I'm kidding. I know we can't. Great casting, bad script, and to many over the top sequences. The Batman fighting goons scenes were pretty damn awesome and brutal. Felt like there was some inspiration from the Arkham series in how Batfleck fights. It was better than Suicide Squad.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:20:16 GMT
I've always liked Natasha from Star Trek Next Gen
(no she's not my favourite character on that show; that honor goes to Data but nevertheless, she's awesome)
and Janeway (she's my second favourite captain after Picard)
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 31, 2017 21:21:35 GMT
It was so much more than that. The dialogue was stilted, awkward, and faux-edgy ("I'm not a lady, I'm a journalist"). The fight scenes were dull and hazily filmed. The characterization was weird. Even setting aside my irritation about the new adjustments they deemed necessary to Batman, like his being so chill with criminal on criminal murder, his being swayed from a sworn purpose by some random commonality like a person's name is one of the least compelling and inventive possible resolutions they could have come up with. Worse, it was all rushed until the funeral scene, which was painfully slow. Especially for audiences that are, on average, not remotely fooled. There was not enough Batman v Superman-ing, I'll give you that. And someone really needed to tell Eisenberg he was playing Luthor, not the Joker. Other than that.... ehh. I didn't have a problem with Batman. I never chained myself to his "one rule". Old, old school Batman killed. He even used a gun on occasion, back when he was more of a detective and less "my superpower is money and being Sue levels of competent at whatever the plot requires". Don't get me wrong, I like the generally accepted version of Batman. But I'm also not opposed to pushing that envelope a little, so long as he doesn't just turn into the Punisher. And besides, the no killing thing gets thinner and thinner the more thugs you beat the everloving piss out of and/or the more property damage you cause. They even lampoon that at the start of Injustice 2 where Robin says something like "oh you won't kill but severe head trauma is fine". I think the story of a Batman pushed over the edge a little is one worth telling. Though it's probably best told in its own movie as opposed to merely referenced in an already oversaturated vs flick. And yeah, I enjoy lulz about the Martha thing as much as the next guy on the internet, but you do see what they going for there right? It's not quite as dumb as people make it. Batman has completely dehumanized Superman in order to do what he thinks must be done. And even starving children in Africa know Bruce's parents and their murder still shadow basically everything he is and does. So "save Martha...mother" is pretty much the exact thing needed to cut right through his thoughts and make him realize that Superman is also human. There were technical flaws and blunders as well, of course. And yeah the pacing was weird. I do think DC fell on their face with this one. But I don't think it's quite as bad as people make it.
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Post by KingDarious BBB on May 31, 2017 21:23:45 GMT
Best females tbh I respectfully disagree
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Post by Lady Artifice on May 31, 2017 21:28:58 GMT
Great casting, bad script, and to many over the top sequences. The Batman fighting goons scenes were pretty damn awesome and brutal. Felt like there was some inspiration from the Arkham series in how Batfleck fights. It was better than Suicide Squad. Children of the Corn VI aka Children of the Corn 666 was a better movie than Suicide Squad. It's not saying that much.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:43:07 GMT
It was so much more than that. The dialogue was stilted, awkward, and faux-edgy ("I'm not a lady, I'm a journalist"). The fight scenes were dull and hazily filmed. The characterization was weird. Even setting aside my irritation about the new adjustments they deemed necessary to Batman, like his being so chill with criminal on criminal murder, his being swayed from a sworn purpose by some random commonality like a person's name is one of the least compelling and inventive possible resolutions they could have come up with. Worse, it was all rushed until the funeral scene, which was painfully slow. Especially for audiences that are, on average, not remotely fooled. There was not enough Batman v Superman-ing, I'll give you that. And someone really needed to tell Eisenberg he was playing Luthor, not the Joker. Other than that.... ehh. I didn't have a problem with Batman. I never chained myself to his "one rule". Old, old school Batman killed. He even used a gun on occasion, back when he was more of a detective and less "my superpower is money and being Sue levels of competent at whatever the plot requires". Don't get me wrong, I like the generally accepted version of Batman. But I'm also not opposed to pushing that envelope a little, so long as he doesn't just turn into the Punisher. And besides, the no killing thing gets thinner and thinner the more thugs you beat the everloving piss out of and/or the more property damage you cause. They even lampoon that at the start of Injustice 2 where Robin says something like "oh you won't kill but severe head trauma is fine". I think the story of a Batman pushed over the edge a little is one worth telling. Though it's probably best told in its own movie as opposed to merely referenced in an already oversaturated vs flick. And yeah, I enjoy lulz about the Martha thing as much as the next guy on the internet, but you do see what they going for there right? It's not quite as dumb as people make it. Batman has completely dehumanized Superman in order to do what he thinks must be done. And even starving children in Africa know Bruce's parents and their murder still shadow basically everything he is and does. So "save Martha...mother" is pretty much the exact thing needed to cut right through his thoughts and make him realize that Superman is also human. There were technical flaws and blunders as well, of course. And yeah the pacing was weird. I do think DC fell on their face with this one. But I don't think it's quite as bad as people make it. When I first saw the trailers for Batman v Superman I genuinely thought Jesse Eisenberg was playing the Riddler
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:22:29 GMT
Ok. Let me explain something to you. When you are a man, there is a certain level of horniness that it is wired into the back of your mind. It's how you function. And some women appeal to that for profit. Everyone from actors to video game artists to sex workers. So, if a woman voluntarily objectifies herself for one reason or another, I'm not going to feel bad about her being objectified. I'm not complaining that women in games can be hot or that actresses wear skimpy clothing. I tend to get my own enjoyment out of that (not in that way those who are from THAT thread) but im complaint about the way men en mass let that affect real women and how they talk to and treat women. And that it's not some games and some hot girls it's every female hero. We don't have much to look up to without worrying how we look. And not only are they hot they draw attention to how hot they are all the time. Showing off more legs or more body. Having male characters discuss it or females envy or grope each other. If you don't feel hot or don't happen to have big boobs sometimes you don't feel like you can be as great as female heroes. Thats all ~ Wat? Then don't worry about how you look? Men who let themselves get influenced by video games off all things to talk with women have issues. Issues that would have been there even if they hadn't played games. ---If you don't feel hot or don't happen to have big boobs sometimes you don't feel like you can be as great as female heroes. Well the same thing could be said about male heroes right? Most guys that play Uncharted probably don't look like Nathan Drake and it shouldn't bother them because most people can see the difference between fiction and reality. Eh, Eirika is better than Celica when it comes to a female FE lord character anyway. Celica did some really stupid shit.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:34:05 GMT
For a long time men had more heroes than women to look up to. Again as I said several times, I'm not saying men have it perfect but yet again men not having it perfect is no reason to ignore women having it worse in that specific regard.
For my whole life the male characters in video games usually are attractive or at least try to be. But they highlight they love of exploration and fun. Their heroism. For the women all that is hughlighted are her looks. Couple this with that girls can get better jobs just for looks at times? Girls are sold make up at young ages when commercials shownit off on young girls? It gets hard not to worry about your looks as a man or a woman but at least for men there are heroes who highlight more than their sex and for women that is a fairly new concept. "Get over it" is a really bad defense when look good or be worse has been drilled into you from childhood.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on May 31, 2017 22:42:02 GMT
Pff, quality is always more important than quantity. There is a ton of male heroes out there, true, but Xena singlehandedly beats them all.
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Post by DomeWing333 on May 31, 2017 22:59:30 GMT
For a long time men had more heroes than women to look up to. Again as I said several times, I'm not saying men have it perfect but yet again men not having it perfect is no reason to ignore women having it worse in that specific regard. For my whole life the male characters in video games usually are attractive or at least try to be. But they highlight they love of exploration and fun. Their heroism. For the women all that is hughlighted are her looks. Couple this with that girls can get better jobs just for looks at times? Girls are sold make up at young ages when commercials shownit off on young girls? It gets hard not to worry about your looks as a man or a woman but at least for men there are heroes who highlight more than their sex and for women that is a fairly new concept. "Get over it" is a really bad defense when look good or be worse has been drilled into you from childhood. It's worth pointing out that it is improving though. Girls today have many more female role models in video games and other media who don't have their sexuality front and center as their characterization (Ellie from The Last of Us, Cassandra from Dragon Age, Cassie Cage from Mortal Kombat). There's still plenty of progress to be made no doubt (and that goes for male representation too), but that's just going to take time.
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Post by Red on May 31, 2017 23:01:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:05:17 GMT
For a long time men had more heroes than women to look up to. Again as I said several times, I'm not saying men have it perfect but yet again men not having it perfect is no reason to ignore women having it worse in that specific regard. For my whole life the male characters in video games usually are attractive or at least try to be. But they highlight they love of exploration and fun. Their heroism. For the women all that is hughlighted are her looks. Couple this with that girls can get better jobs just for looks at times? Girls are sold make up at young ages when commercials shownit off on young girls? It gets hard not to worry about your looks as a man or a woman but at least for men there are heroes who highlight more than their sex and for women that is a fairly new concept. "Get over it" is a really bad defense when look good or be worse has been drilled into you from childhood. It's worth pointing out that it is improving though. Girls today have many more female role models in video games and other media who don't have their sexuality front and center as their characterization (Ellie from The Last of Us, Cassandra from Dragon Age, Cassie Cage from Mortal Kombat). There's still plenty of progress to be made no doubt (and that goes for male representation too), but that's just going to take time. Itnwont magicslly fix. We need to be willing to discuss it
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Post by DomeWing333 on May 31, 2017 23:17:27 GMT
It's worth pointing out that it is improving though. Girls today have many more female role models in video games and other media who don't have their sexuality front and center as their characterization (Ellie from The Last of Us, Cassandra from Dragon Age, Cassie Cage from Mortal Kombat). There's still plenty of progress to be made no doubt (and that goes for male representation too), but that's just going to take time. Itnwont magicslly fix. We need to be willing to discuss it Definitely true. The problem is that a lot of the room for discussion has been taken over by figures and viewpoints that are very vocal and have wide reach, but don't necessarily have the best argument or represent a good common ground. That goes for both sides.
Almost everyone thinks that more kickass female characters is a good thing. The reception of the characters I mentioned have been really positive for the most part, by men and women. But, because of certain popularized figures, some people have been conditioned to interpret someone actually asking for more as them whiny and entitled.
So the conversation is more difficult now and reasonable viewpoints are going to run into people who've built up an unreasonable guard against anything remotely resembling the viewpoint that they (perhaps validly) dislike. But I agree, it remains a good thing that these issues are being discussed.
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Post by Lorn on May 31, 2017 23:20:04 GMT
Oh look, the condescension has come out again, and then it makes a post that almost proves my point! Who would have thought?! If she were so outraged by the oversexualization of the media she would have agreed or understood my point in response to her oversexualized anime character (that I am going to assume was older than the age of consent). However, that is not what she did is it? No, she took offense to it! Now, let's move off of that contradiction to address your wording. I already highlighted, but I suppose I should repost it here so you know exactly what I am referring to: Unless I am mistaken, anime is a part of that "media" you just mentioned. So what exactly are you arguing here, that only video games count as the media? That is the REAL head-scratcher here... Her words: ...To which you proceeded to complain about her representation of a woman wearing skimpy clothing and are now faulting her for not agreeing with you? See the disconnect, Lorn?S he was complaining about oversexualization as a societal effect; what it does. Not the fact that it exists. Yes, I do see the disconnect. However I don't think you see it just yet, otherwise you wouldn't have decided to highlight it. What she said is "I hate oversexualization of women because has a bad effect on women (somehow), but I like oversexualization of women because that's how I get enjoyment". If she truly thought that the oversexualization of women was such a bad thing, she wouldn't get enjoyment out of it. In fact, she would be opposed to it regardless of whether she found "enjoyment" in it. Which again, was my original point. If truly you believe oversexualization causes women to suffer from "body shaming" (or some other maladaptive condition) you would never engage in it, because by engaging in it you are perpetuating the negative effect it has on society. If oversexualization leads to negative effects, why would you ever engage in it and defend it while claiming to hate it? Now do you see the disconnect? For a long time men had more heroes than women to look up to. Again as I said several times, I'm not saying men have it perfect but yet again men not having it perfect is no reason to ignore women having it worse in that specific regard. For my whole life the male characters in video games usually are attractive or at least try to be. But they highlight they love of exploration and fun. Their heroism. For the women all that is hughlighted are her looks. Couple this with that girls can get better jobs just for looks at times? Girls are sold make up at young ages when commercials shownit off on young girls? It gets hard not to worry about your looks as a man or a woman but at least for men there are heroes who highlight more than their sex and for women that is a fairly new concept. "Get over it" is a really bad defense when look good or be worse has been drilled into you from childhood. So what are you complaining about exactly?
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