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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 14:39:07 GMT
Avenger X does 52 damage per shot and Avenger SX does 66 damage per shot. That +!4 damage per bullet really adds up with bonuses...
| Avenger SX | Avenger X | | Base Damage Per Clip | 30 x 66 = 1980 | 30x 52 = 1560 | | Damage per clip w/ Barrell X | 30x66(1+.21) = 2396 | R30 x 52 (1+.21) = 1887.6 | | w/ Barrell X and AR Gear | 30x66(1+.21 + .1) = 2594 | 30x52(1+.21+.1) = 20 43.6 | | w/ Barrell X and AR Gear AR Rail III | 30x66(1+.21+.1 +.3) = 3188 | 30x52(1+.21+.1 +.3) = 2512 | | w/ above + 30% dmg passive | 30x66(1+.21+.1 +.3 +.3 +.) = 3782 | 30x52(1+.21+.1 +.3+.3) = 2980 |
The 30% damage passive is just generic, weapon damage passive. Some characters have 28%, some get/give 20% debuts, you have potential level III ammo, etc... Barell X with no other passives on Avenger SX will kill all redbars in a single clip on gold. An annointed’s health and shields comes out to 4275. A single clip of the avenger can almost strip the shields and kill an anointed on gold wot the right setup. If you use the ammo mod to increase magazine capacity, one clip should now do this with the right passives and gear. This of course assumes you are hitting your shots. But all the data in the table can be used with a stock as its just with a 30 bullet magazine. I'm thinking the avenger will be my new favorite AR and something I might actually enjoy playing....put it on a soldier with concussive shot, lots of damage/accuracy passives and turbo charge with elemental ammo and I bet it will be really really strong. CHARGER vs CHARGER S Charger X does 48 per shot and the S does 56 | Row 1 column 1 | Charger SX | Charger X | | Base Damage Per Cip | 50 x 56 = 2800 | 50x 48 = 2400 | | With barely X | 50x56(1+.21) = 3388 | 50 x 48 (1+.21) = 2904 | | Barely X and AR Gear | 50x56(1+.21 + .1) = 3668 | 50x48(1+.21+.1) = 3144 | | Barely X and AR Gear and Rail III | 50x66(1+.21+.1 +.3) = 4508
| 50x48(1+.21+.1 +.3) = 3864 | | Bw/ above + 30% dmg passive | 50x56(1+.21+.1 +.3 +.3 +.) = 5248 | 50x48(1+.21+.1 +.3+.3) = 4584 |
Using the rate of fire numbers (not counting any raise time) , Avenger SX fully modded takes 3.42s to dish out 3782 damage (full clip) for 1105.8 DPS Charger SX fully modded = 4.6 seconds to fire its whole (50 rnd) clip for 996.5 DPS Avenger is also more accurate at 65 vs 56 for charger. So the Avenger SX does more DPS and is more accurate but the Charger SX can put out damage for ~1.2 more seconds before reloading... but the avenger will land more bullets.. Also the upgrade to the avenger is MORE significant than the upgrade to the charger... |
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 14:42:07 GMT
I played the katana SX last night and without crunching numbers, its definitely solid. Not saying it is outclassing URs like the than or crusader but it was certianly viable on gold. I'll play test all the weapons over the next few days and update this, maybe with more tables...
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Post by gethadept on Jun 2, 2017 14:54:38 GMT
Wow, Annoint has over 4000 shield?
Damn.. it has nothing to do with topic.. but all of sudden I realize how amazing feat it is for my Asari Huntress to be able to strip their shield with two punch...
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 15:04:09 GMT
Wow, Annoint has over 4000 shield? Damn.. it has nothing to do with topic.. but all of sudden I realize how amazing feat it is for my Asari Huntress to be able to strip their shield with two punch... Combined health and shields is over 4K... |
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Post by Feneckus on Jun 2, 2017 15:07:38 GMT
An annointed’s health and shields comes out to 4275. A single clip of the avenger can almost strip the shields and kill an anointed on gold wot the right setup. It's pretty sad when the criteria for a weapon being "really solid" is almost being able to kill a shielded enemy with one clip when using appropriate gear + rank III booster. |
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 15:14:45 GMT
An annointed’s health and shields comes out to 4275. A single clip of the avenger can almost strip the shields and kill an anointed on gold wot the right setup. It's pretty sad when the criteria for a weapon being "really solid" is almost being able to kill a shielded enemy with one clip when using appropriate gear + rank III booster. Fiend --> Ascendant --> Anointed --> Destined --> Chosen -->Dog its a level 4 enemy in the KETT faction...Almost killing it with a single clip on gold is pretty solid...and it can be killed if you land some head-shots...its balanced fine. If you want weapons that insta--melt things just play on PC in hacked lobbies...the game needs to have some challenge (its already super easy)... |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 2, 2017 15:23:03 GMT
But most weapons still don't feel satisfying to use.
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 15:30:08 GMT
But most weapons still don't feel satisfying to use. A lot of weapons weren't satisfying to me in ME3 either. I found a bunch I liked and used them. Game has some solid weapons and a bit of variety (HIGH ROF shotties or slower, harder hitting ones, same with pistols), snipers are decent but think the BW should get more love and innate piercing but to me its really the AR class that has been lacking since the game came out. I think the Avenger SX helps fill this void a little. Still need a solid UR assault rifle (soned is a novelty gimmick and the paw is decent as it primes well but I want a solid ROF, high damage UR AR (not a finger hurting valkyrie or a guess where the bullets will go soned)... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 15:56:08 GMT
All weapons in ME3 had their own unique sounds (with the exception of Wraith/Evis, Carnifex/Paladin/Eagle) and all felt different. In MEA all guns in each class have the same sounds except for Kett, Angara, grenade launching and outlaw guns. It's like the got their sound design ideas from the Gran Turismo team. Furthermore, in ME3 when a guy got blasted by a shotgun--even Phantoms-got stunned or showed it. It's one thing MEA still lacks in as well as proper sound balancing. Guns are the loudest things in the game, and it drowns out enemy sounds and music.
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Post by riotinducer on Jun 2, 2017 15:59:24 GMT
Can we do a similar comparison with the Charger and Charger S? I'm normally one to favor accuracy over bullet hoses but I gotta say even with the accuracy nerf the Charger feels a lot more potent than the Avenger. I really feel like the Avenger X should be doing more like 56-58 damage and the S model should be more like 70-72
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 16:16:42 GMT
Can we do a similar comparison with the Charger and Charger S? I'm normally one to favor accuracy over bullet hoses but I gotta say even with the accuracy nerf the Charger feels a lot more potent than the Avenger. I really feel like the Avenger X should be doing more like 56-58 damage and the S model should be more like 70-72 I'll put the table in the opening post and this summary but this is what I found... Using the rate of fire numbers (not counting any raise time) , Avenger SX fully modded takes 3.42s to dish out 3782 damage (full clip) for 1105.8 DPS Charger SX fully modded = 4.6 seconds to fire its whole (50 rnd) clip for 996.5 DPS Avenger is also more accurate at 65 vs 56 for charger. So the Avenger SX does more DPS and is more accurate but the Charger SX can put out damage for ~1.2 more seconds before reloading... |
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 16:23:07 GMT
Updated OP with charger INFO
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Post by vacaneon on Jun 2, 2017 16:25:14 GMT
It's pretty sad when the criteria for a weapon being "really solid" is almost being able to kill a shielded enemy with one clip when using appropriate gear + rank III booster. If you want weapons that insta--melt things just play on PC in hacked lobbies...the game needs to have some challenge (its already super easy)... Want a not-so-shitty new weapon = want an instant-win weapon? Great logic over there. Just FYI, X5Ghost is very close to strictly superior than AvengerS. And Disciple is strictly superior than KatanaS. You don't realease a new weapon that is stritcly or near strictly inferior to the old ones. Only a fanboy would feel fine about it. |
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 16:50:10 GMT
If you want weapons that insta--melt things just play on PC in hacked lobbies...the game needs to have some challenge (its already super easy)... Want a not-so-shitty new weapon = want an instant-win weapon? Great logic over there. Just FYI, X5Ghost is very close to strictly superior than AvengerS. And Disciple is strictly superior than KatanaS. You don't realease a new weapon that is stritcly or near strictly inferior to the old ones. Only a fanboy would feel fine about it. The avenger S is a big improvement and fills an AR void. Its a huge buff over the existing one and brings a solid traditional AR to the game that has balance in terms of damage, accuracy, mag size and rate of fire. DOesn't excel in any of them but is okay in all of them. Its solid all around. Now in the future I'd like an UR version of this (e.g. harrier). You can have your reverse bloom ghost. The ghost has a slightly higher ROF but the Avenger S does more damage per shot. Avenger has less ammo but doesn't start off inaccurate (reverse bloom)... We are just reverting back to pre 1.06, bitching just to bitch about something. There are plenty of justifiable things to complain about in this game, the avengerS is not one of them. |
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Post by pitka17 on Jun 2, 2017 17:00:25 GMT
My initial response is to judge them based on their original weapon values, plus the 15-30% damage, placed into the tables from the thread: Weapon DPS Charts (UPDATED for 1.06) by Hardcoresalmon bsn.boards.net/thread/8882/weapon-dps-charts-updated-06Basically, the avenger is still weaker than the mattock and halberd, which aren't amazing but are serviceable in gold (I usually bring a very strong lightweight secondary weapon for fiends and hydras). The charger S II is equal to the charger X, making its gains pretty small (only 17% it seems). It falls into the same boat as the avenger, but has better priming ability. The predator S might be the best weapon of the "s" series, gaining 10% damage by rank II. I'm not sure about the final stats. Assuming it's gains keep up, it basically becomes a 3 weight mattock pistol. Viper is going to be terrible regardless, it would need a 60% damage boost to become a heavier, 3shot version of the nerfed vanquisher. And katanaS is indeed a small clip, weaker Disciple. |
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 17:23:16 GMT
My initial response is to judge them based on their original weapon values, plus the 15-30% damage, placed into the tables from the thread: Weapon DPS Charts (UPDATED for 1.06) by Hardcoresalmon bsn.boards.net/thread/8882/weapon-dps-charts-updated-06Basically, the avenger is still weaker than the mattock and halberd, which aren't amazing but are serviceable in gold (I usually bring a very strong lightweight secondary weapon for fiends and hydras). The charger S II is equal to the charger X, making its gains pretty small (only 17% it seems). It falls into the same boat as the avenger, but has better priming ability. The predator S might be the best weapon of the "s" series, gaining 10% damage by rank II. I'm not sure about the final stats. Assuming it's gains keep up, it basically becomes a 3 weight mattock pistol. Viper is going to be terrible regardless, it would need a 60% damage boost to become a heavier, 3shot version of the nerfed vanquisher. And katanaS is indeed a small clip, weaker Disciple. Avenger is full auto. |
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Post by pitka17 on Jun 2, 2017 17:31:12 GMT
I know. But the damage output is less than those semi-auto, accurate, not-bloom-plagued weapons. Thats my point. Really, avenger S X could be seen as a pray and spray PAW if we want to compare it to only automatics.
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Post by gethadept on Jun 2, 2017 17:32:49 GMT
You know these S weapons would have been awesome if they were uncommon instead of rare.... :dumb:
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Post by SocorroTortoise on Jun 2, 2017 17:44:25 GMT
My most charitable take on it, ignoring URs, is that 3/5 add something of any meaning. Predator has some upsides and downsides compared to other semi-auto pistols, so that's 1. Charger is competing with Equalizer but has upsides, so that's 2. Avenger is somewhere between Revenant and Ghost and there are reasons to use it, so 3. Viper is worse than or equal to Vanq in every stat but accuracy, which the Vanq has no problem with in most cases. Katana is worse than or equal to Disciple is every stat but spare ammo, which is very minor. Those two are strictly outclassed and are the ones I have a problem with. They don't add anything to the game that we didn't already have. There's no reason to take them right now outside of challenges, wanting to use them for aesthetic reasons (or something along those lines), or manifest limitations - which these make worse.
I don't want them to be best in class, I just want them to have some reason for existing other than "people liked the common weapons and those aren't gold viable."
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Post by vacaneon on Jun 2, 2017 17:49:24 GMT
Want a not-so-shitty new weapon = want an instant-win weapon? Great logic over there. Just FYI, X5Ghost is very close to strictly superior than AvengerS. And Disciple is strictly superior than KatanaS. You don't realease a new weapon that is stritcly or near strictly inferior to the old ones. Only a fanboy would feel fine about it. The avenger S is a big improvement and fills an AR void. Its a huge buff over the existing one and brings a solid traditional AR to the game that has balance in terms of damage, accuracy, mag size and rate of fire. DOesn't excel in any of them but is okay in all of them. You can have your reverse bloom ghost. The ghost has a slightly higher ROF but the Avenger S does more damage per shot. Avenger has less ammo but doesn't start off inaccurate (reverse bloom)... We are just reverting back to pre 1.06, bitching just to bitch about something. There are plenty of justifiable things to complain about in this game, the avengerS is not one of them. Pfft, that is not how you compare weapons. In terms of DPS & multi-clip DPS: 1. AvengerS and Ghost both have meh DPS (577.5 vs 580) 2. But Ghost has better multi-clip DPS because its clip size is much larger than AvengerS AvengerS with magazine mod=（45/（525/60））/（45/（525/60）+1.5)*577.5 = 447.10 Ghost with magazine mod = （113/（600/60））/（113/（600/60）+1.5)*580 = 512.03 In terms of priming: Since both weapons don't have good DPS, their role serves as a primer at best, and in this case Ghost's 600rof is priming 1.14x faster than Avengers's 525 rof. In terms of range (which is determined by accuracy): Being very accurate after 1 sec of shooting VS Only accurate for the first one sec. And you can't tell which one is FAR better?  In terms of weight: Ghost has a weight of 10, Avenger has a weight of 13 In terms of max ammo: Ghost has 985 max ammo, AvengerS has 656 max ammo. Seriously, any sane person would choose Ghost over AvengerS if it is unrelated to any subjective factors such as being a Bioware fanboy. And your logic is still funny. Even if I stop bitching as if I am, it doesn't mean it is okay for you to tell lies that the new weapons are okay. Edit: Oh btw, vanquisher is also near-strictly better than viperS, only because viperS is slightly more accurate than vanquisher, lol. I havn't taken a closer look at the pistols, as I am going to sleep now. |
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dcal31
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Post by dcal31 on Jun 2, 2017 17:56:29 GMT
You know these S weapons would have been awesome if they were uncommon instead of rare.... :dumb: Very much this. The gold weapon pool is already overinflated. These would have helped balance out the silver pool very nicely. That one change and pretty much all of the criticize goes away. |
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Post by TormDK on Jun 2, 2017 18:23:55 GMT
Want a not-so-shitty new weapon = want an instant-win weapon? Great logic over there. Just FYI, X5Ghost is very close to strictly superior than AvengerS. And Disciple is strictly superior than KatanaS. You don't realease a new weapon that is stritcly or near strictly inferior to the old ones. Only a fanboy would feel fine about it. The avenger S is a big improvement and fills an AR void. Its a huge buff over the existing one and brings a solid traditional AR to the game that has balance in terms of damage, accuracy, mag size and rate of fire. DOesn't excel in any of them but is okay in all of them. Its solid all around. Now in the future I'd like an UR version of this (e.g. harrier). You can have your reverse bloom ghost. The ghost has a slightly higher ROF but the Avenger S does more damage per shot. Avenger has less ammo but doesn't start off inaccurate (reverse bloom)... We are just reverting back to pre 1.06, bitching just to bitch about something. There are plenty of justifiable things to complain about in this game, the avengerS is not one of them. You sound serious, but that low damage per bullet is a joke on Gold (remember the default mob armour here). The AR "void" As you called it worked with the Ghost, and even that weapon had too low base damage, which is a general problem across all ARs. |
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Post by Sentinel2010 on Jun 2, 2017 18:35:00 GMT
I am always disappointed with the ARs in MEMP.
I wanted a good standard, full-auto rifle but nope, they only gave me 3-point-burst, spray machine-gun, laser and other shits. Saber is a good gun but that's semi-auto, more like battle rifle than AR.
Ghost is the closest thing to my expectation in this game. Sad thing its damage doesn't do any good.
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Post by gethadept on Jun 2, 2017 18:38:47 GMT
I am always disappointed with the ARs in MEMP. I wanted a good standard, full-auto rifle but nope, they only gave me 3-point-burst, spray machine-gun, laser and other shits. Saber is a good gun but that's semi-auto, more like battle rifle than AR. Ghost is the closest thing to my expectation in this game. Sad thing its damage doesn't do any good. Here are some facts about MEAMP ARs. 1. ARs were very popular pre-patch 1.06. People used AR unless they are using Vanquisher. 2. Patch 1.06 buffed things based on user feedback and usage statistics. 3. Popular ARs(including Revenant, Falcon, Zalkin etc) which were used a lot not because they are good but because they are barely tolerable compare to other garbage weapons got absolutely no buff in patch 1.06. **Because we didn`t bitch about Revenant, Falcon and Zalkin... unlike Soned and Mattock. Other ARs were not even discussed for most part so they were presumed to be perfectly balanced by BW. 4. As the result of not being touched by patch 1.06 (which buffed some weapons' effectiveness by over 200%)... now ARs have become garbage. BW sucks at balancing and have no idea what they are doing. We just gotta be patient as they catch up very very slow. |
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 2, 2017 18:55:33 GMT
The avenger S is a big improvement and fills an AR void. Its a huge buff over the existing one and brings a solid traditional AR to the game that has balance in terms of damage, accuracy, mag size and rate of fire. DOesn't excel in any of them but is okay in all of them. You can have your reverse bloom ghost. The ghost has a slightly higher ROF but the Avenger S does more damage per shot. Avenger has less ammo but doesn't start off inaccurate (reverse bloom)... We are just reverting back to pre 1.06, bitching just to bitch about something. There are plenty of justifiable things to complain about in this game, the avengerS is not one of them. Pfft, that is not how you compare weapons. In terms of DPS & multi-clip DPS: 1. AvengerS and Ghost both have meh DPS (577.5 vs 580) 2. But Ghost has better multi-clip DPS because its clip size is much larger than AvengerS AvengerS with magazine mod=（45/（525/60））/（45/（525/60）+1.5)*577.5 = 447.10 Ghost with magazine mod = （113/（600/60））/（113/（600/60）+1.5)*580 = 512.03 In terms of priming: Since both weapons don't have good DPS, their role serves as a primer at best, and in this case Ghost's 600rof is priming 1.14x faster than Avengers's 525 rof. In terms of range (which is determined by accuracy): Being very accurate after 1 sec of shooting VS Only accurate for the first one sec. And you can't tell which one is FAR better? In terms of weight: Ghost has a weight of 10, Avenger has a weight of 13 In terms of max ammo: Ghost has 985 max ammo, AvengerS has 656 max ammo. Seriously, any sane person would choose Ghost over AvengerS if it is unrelated to any subjective factors such as being a Bioware fanboy. And your logic is still funny. Even if I stop bitching as if I am, it doesn't mean it is okay for you to tell lies that the new weapons are okay. Edit: Oh btw, vanquisher is also near-strictly better than viperS, only because viperS is slightly more accurate than vanquisher, lol. I havn't taken a closer look at the pistols, as I am going to sleep now. You are quoting weight ( 13vs10 ) and max ammo reserves like they mean something here. |
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