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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 19, 2017 18:44:59 GMT
I think you like to contradict me just for the fun of it. Please read what I said. I was focussing on why the Dalish think of him as a god of trickery and deceit. The codex reinforces that idea. Even the memories in the Fade seem to do so since at least one of them was aware of who was responsible for the destruction, which suggests they knew in advance he was going to do something and it is clear they feel they were tricked.
The thing is I got a bit tired of the scholars of Orlais, who would have even less idea of elven than the Dalish do, of suggesting that somehow the meaning the Dalish had assigned to him was wrong. Solas admits himself that Harel = Dread. He adopted the name as a badge of pride to give his followers strength in the fight. Yes, it might have meant simply "rebel" wolf but to be honest why would that instil fear in his enemies? "Dread" gives a much more sinister meaning to it, which would be why the Evanuris called him that and why Solas decided to appropriate it as his title.
As for the Dalish thinking of him as a god of misfortune, or trickery or whatever, I also stress that would be because that is how their ancestors saw him. They didn't get it wrong, they are just descended from people who were on the other side of the war. Seeing as they also have this idea that they are descended from nobility, if that was nobility in the time of the Evanuris rather than in the time of the Dales, that would explain why they their memories of the Creators are positive rather than negative, since their ancestors benefitted from the status quo and suffered the greatest loss of power when the gods were shut away. Quite possibly the reason they don't remember that their ancestors were slaves of the Evanuris is that they weren't. As for the vallaslin, whilst Solas says the nobles marked their slaves to show ownership, it is also possible that they marked themselves to show allegiance. Not all the elves in the memories appeared to be slaves and they certainly weren't all gods, so some of them were nobility that got up to all the courtly intrigue that at one time Solas enjoyed getting involved in (as he states after the ball at the Winter Palace).
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 19, 2017 19:58:39 GMT
You literally stated "I don't think that Fen'Harel being seen as the god of deception is down to mistranslation at all." You're now talking about a different thing. It's one thing for the idea to be reinforced among the Dalish (who, in fact, were not a thing that existed for long, all things considered) - it's another to what it originally was or what it translated to. After all, the whole 'deception' angle seem to be stemming directly from events that have happened after Evanuris have disappeared, or rather - what has caused their disappearance. The codex is obviously written before that, and rather than focusing of Dread Wolf's deception, it warns the followers of consequences of treason. ..."Tired of the scholars of Orlais?" That doesn't sound like a logical argument, but a knee-jerk reaction at the possibility that Orlesian scholars might be right about a thing or two that the Dalish aren't. I don't understand such mindset. The Dalish, despite their best efforts, aren't ancient elves. The ancient culture is lost to practically everyone, and the Dalish are scattered all around the continent, so it's only natural for them to not know everything accurately (which we already know they don't), WHILE the university of Orlais, being one of the best and likely having access to way more ancient elvhen texts, would have way more substantial basis to conduct linguistic research. Besides - we don't even know when that research has been done. In fact, considering that the codex is attached to statue of Fen'Harel in Temple Of Mythal (and ignoring all the meta-implications of it) it likely means that it's research conducted after receiving various materials from Inquisition's various pursuits, and is done at the request of Empress Celene - the same Empress that has let elves study at the University. In fact, the name of the researcher - Senallen - sounds distinctly like an elven name, so it's actually very possible that instead of criticizing a pompous Orlesian professor, you may be criticizing area of work pursued by a dedicated young elven scholar, like Colette, who has managed to have her papers published. Okay... but how does that proves that point? "Dread" has nothing to do with deception. Besides, where does he "admits" to Dread Wolf literally translating to "Dread Wolf"? It seems to support my notion that the word may have many meanings more than one specific meaning. Misfortune and trickery are two different things - besides, if that's what ancient elves viewed him as, I don't think Solas would have ever managed to lead a rebellion that has threatened the god-like Evanuris. Not necessarily. A lot of my countrymen like to see themselves as descending from nobility. In reality, most of our ancestors were 'filthy peasants'. In fact the whole 'nobility' angle mostly makes people feel better about themselves as well as covers up the fact that we weren't really better than others in terms of how we treated whole groups of people (hint - like cattle). Such little details are especially easy to tune out while an oppressed nation dreams of return of better times. It is a real mess to untangle once the time comes to replace legends, dreams, hearsay and myths with something more substantial. ... I think we ventured well away from original point with this. The fact that there was nobility among ancient elves is well-established, but we don't know who and why would wear vallaslin, aside from slaves and priests/guards.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 19, 2017 20:23:36 GMT
However it goes, I hope that the Solasmancers get closure and yet those who want to kill the sonofabitch for dooming the world can get their own kind of closure too. I wonder if they are entertaining the idea that this is the last of the DA series so they'll go out with a bang by dropping the veil and destroying us all regardless of which choice we make ala Mass Effect 3. I would truly hate Bioware for that. Hmmm, doesn't seem like it. It especially doesn't seem like it if you take into consideration that DA4 may be the 2nd part of DAI. And according to David Gaider the "pace of reveal" of lore and plot twists remains about the same in the game cut in half as it was in the first drafts. Needless to say, at the end of DAI we merely start scratching the surface - much less see the resolution of all accumulated conflicts. So I think that decision what to do with the Veil may not be the final one - or maybe that dealing with its creator will be the final conflict of the series. Heck, it's possible not even other Evanuris will be the final threat. The 'main baddie' likely has a lot to do with the Blight - and not like Corypheus or Archdemon, who seem to be more unwitting lackeys or tools, but whatever hides behind it and perhaps hid behind it for a very long time. I mean... even Solas is terrified of it. He warns to never try and even get close to it. The Wardens plan seems to have truly scared him. And there are hints in the main game and Trespasser that Solas tried to protect the world not much from Evanuris, but possibly the Blight. And in base game he even hints (in banter with Blackwall) that the threat still looms on the horizon and everybody is running out of time, himself included. Ultimately, I think things like Sandal's prophecy or Flemythal's or OGBs comment suggest that the world is about to change - although whether that change is tied to Veil dropping or not remains to be seen. Perhaps the choice is not binary - maybe the world would need to change in a different way. We're yet to find out.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 20, 2017 19:15:16 GMT
I would just point out that in addition to the warning against treason the Evanuris quite clearly state that his "words seem fair but turn slowly to poison", so they are good as admitting that he makes a very persuasive argument but instead of then just warning people against treason, they specifically suggest that the fair words will backfire on the listener, not because of the actions of the Evanuris but because of the nature of Fen'Harel. In fact another thing that Solas admits to is sacrificing numerous friends in pursuit of his goals. I don't think that started with Felassan. For all we know, those memories in the Library were of his fellow rebels who were left stranded in a collapsing world. Those who subsequently escaped would not remember Fen'Harel as the rebel hero but as the one responsible for destroying their world by shutting their gods away. These were the people who handed down the stories among the elven slaves of Tevinter. In the past it was stated by the writers that not everything in Dalish lore was found in ruins but some of it had been handed on among the slaves, I would say by word of mouth although someone, I think it was Felicia Day, had the absurd idea that they wrote things down on pieces of paper - hardly likely since in DAI the ruins in the Western Approach detail how the majority of the slaves would have been illiterate and in any case paper is not a very durable medium for transmission over thousands of years.
However, another group clearly did survive, the ones who kept the memory of the rebellion alive in the folk tale of the "trickster warrior who fought against tyrants". Their thoughts on the events can be found in the tablet that was recovered from the Temple of Mythal. They fully acknowledge that what resulted from the "wolf's" actions was the price of freedom. Not only that but this tale obviously went further than the Temple ruins because it ended up in an Alamarri war poem. One of the most intriguing aspects of the elven story for me is what happened to Solas' followers in the intervening years. WoT2 makes it quite clear that Felassan was an ancient elf, not a modern elf recruited via the Fade, so in what part of the world did he sleep out the years until Solas activated him? Since the legend of the trickster warrior found its way into Dalish lore, I must assume that some of their descendants also ended up slaves of Tevinter or there were followers of Solas around at the time of Andraste's march. There is the possibility that one of them was Shartan but I really hope not.
An interesting thought though. Solas is very bothered by the Wardens and the way they deal with archdemons. Andraste was born in the year that Dumat allegedly died and heard the Maker at an early stage in her life. Everything we know of Andraste seems to suggest that she was very committed to freeing the slaves and also getting to Minrathous, may be because of what lies hidden in its depths. Whilst the writers said they would never definitively say whether the Maker is real or not, I'm pretty much convinced that Solas is going to be the "Maker" that Andraste heard. He was certainly responsible for creating Thedas as modern people know it, including the Veil, just as Andraste taught that the Maker was. Alternatively, if not him then quite possibly some other deity that has an interest in the secrets of Minrathous.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2017 20:09:48 GMT
I would just point out that in addition to the warning against treason the Evanuris quite clearly state that his "words seem fair but turn slowly to poison", so they are good as admitting that he makes a very persuasive argument but instead of then just warning people against treason, they specifically suggest that the fair words will backfire on the listener, not because of the actions of the Evanuris but because of the nature of Fen'Harel. The backfire you mention is treason. The leaflet literally ends with a veiled threat "obey us, or else". Heck, the poison they mention is 90% doubt not deception - because doubt oftentimes is what dismantles religions or religious regimes, and it would have also been a VERY 'Solas' thing to do: instilling doubt in people, that would eventually lead to Evanuris followers question their leaders. And as it happens, Evanuris didn't just create a government, they've created a whole religion with them at the center. So anything that instills doubt in their follower's heart would be deeply undesirable. I think you misunderstand what he means, plus - sacrificing friends or followers doesn't mean that they've been deceived. He didn't deceive Felassan after all. Felassan was killed because he disobeyed orders and knew what his fate was when he did. The memories saved in the library are those of people surprised or shocked with sudden change in the world - some try and call for gods to help them and have no idea what Fen'Harel has done, have no idea what Veil is and only know that the Dread Wolf has disappeared once it was lifted, together with other Evanuris. They don't sound like rebels at all, nor act as people betrayed by their leader or something - they act like surprised bystanders caught in apocalypse. You're still talking about perception of Fen'Harel long after he got his nickname, and after he got rid of Evanuris. Majority of slaves - that still leaves the minority. And some of the slaves would definitely be taught how to read and write, because slaves fulfill many roles their masters want them to, like scribes or assistants in their rituals. We KNOW some of the slaves have written letters, because we find some of the codices written by them or even mentioning that their masters have taught them how to write and read. Plus - there are certainly slaves who have learned to read and write on their own, like Calpernia. Shartan has already been implied (by WOT2 if I remember correctly) to be connected with Fen'Harel - in a sense that people have conflated or attributed older legends about unknown rebel hero to Shartan. That is probably the only connection he has. Also - we have no idea what has happened to Solas's followers, or who they were exactly. The reality is that we don't even know if their memory was eroded with time, or someone helped them to forget, or shaped the narrative of deceptive god. All we know that not only elves have connection to wolves - Alamarri, and in consequence Fereldans, have considered wolf to be the guide and protector of humanity. The implications are, at the very least, interesting. While I certainly agree that Solas has shaped the world AND the Maker people ultimately believed in is based off him (we certainly know that Solas's deeds have been attributed to Maker, like creation of the Veil), but I'm not really buying that Solas IS the Maker, or that he's actively played that part. The Maker is probably an amalgam of many things, real and not.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Jun 21, 2017 3:14:30 GMT
I think you like to contradict me just for the fun of it. Lol why you're surprised at all. That's one of @midnightea hobbies,to "contradict" people to fit in the perspective she has built upon a certain thing.
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Post by Prince on Jun 21, 2017 3:26:23 GMT
we certainly know that Solas's deeds have been attributed to Maker, like creation of the Veil), but I'm not really buying that Solas IS the Maker, or that he's actively played that part. The Maker is probably an amalgam of many things, real and not. The Maker isn't an amalgam of anything. People don't know what is the original cult of the Maker which it predates both Andraste and Tevinter. Whatever they have in the chant of light is not the original cult of the Maker,which writers for now have not bothered to include in the game.The chant of light is nothing more but a cult started by the Emperor of Orlais and the Divines.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 21, 2017 14:13:32 GMT
The Maker isn't an amalgam of anything. People don't know what is There's strong evidence that he is. The creation of the Veil has been attributed to the Maker. We now know that it is in fact Solas's creation. Indeed, the Dread Wolf is directly responsible for shaping Thedas as it is now - something that, yet again, has been attributed to the Maker. Um... Elvenhan, Evanuris and Solas's Veil all predate Andraste and Tevinter. We're not talking about "original cult of the Maker", but what the Maker is for Thedosians now.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 21, 2017 14:36:46 GMT
I think you like to contradict me just for the fun of it. Lol why you're surprised at all. That's one of @midnightea hobbies,to "contradict" people to fit in the perspective she has built upon a certain thing. Let that be a lesson to anyone who starts to throw ad hominems and stirring up personal sh*t for no reason - if you do that, it summons trolls like don.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 21, 2017 18:50:37 GMT
I do hope you weren't suggesting I was "Stirring up personal sh*t for no reason". I was just making a jokey comment since at times it does seem that way. Lighten up, I just like to knock ideas around and see whether it produces anything new. After all no one is definitively correct or not until the writers reveal all.
So another just for the record: there was at least one memory in the library where the person says that they are really unhappy with Fen'Harel and will kill him if they ever catch up with him. What struck me as strange is how they knew Fen'Harel was responsible for the disappearance of their gods and the destruction that resulted from raising the Veil if he hadn't told them that is what he was going to do. Since it is very unlikely he would tell the followers of his enemies the Enanuris in advance as they might warn them, it seemed only logical that the memory must have been someone closely connected with Fen'Harel who was rather unhappy at the results of his actions.
As for the Maker, I believe it was David Gaider who confirmed that originally the Maker was worshipped by the early human Neromenians, not exclusively but as part of a pantheon of gods. This is why part of the Chant of Light attributed to Andraste actually seems to be recounting human folk lore concerning why they no longer worshipped him, at least in the Tevinter Imperium. Dumat, who became the patron of the later Neromenian kingdom, and an unidentified female goddess, who became the patron of the Planeasene kingdom, both offered their assistance in return for the respective monarchs rejecting worship of the Maker. I say it is probably part of human folk lore because it seems very specific and detailed in the account of how this came about, unlike the various conversations Andraste is said to have had with the Maker which seem more concerned with the here and now rather than ancient history.
Shartan as not specifically connected with Solas in WoT2. There are two pieces that have caused people to make the connection. The first is the fact that scholars suggest that the Canticle of Shartan seems to contain elements of that earlier elven folk tale of the "trickster warrior who fought against tyrants" which of course naturally suggests Fen'Harel. I thought that could be explained by the fact that Shartan had heard these earlier tales and used them to inspire his followers in turn. Then after his death trying to rescue Andraste, those of his followers who didn't die with him kept his memory alive by telling both of his actions and the story which inspired them. Gradually the two stories became intertwined with each successive telling until the version that was passed on to the scribes of Divine Justinia I when she requested an account. WoT2 definitely says the story of Shartan was an oral tradition until the Divine asked for it to be written down.
The other reference is a picture the accompanies Gisharel's account of Shartan. It is an illustration of the stained glass window that we see at the head of the aisle in Redcliffe Chantry. This seems to confirm that the window is a depiction of Shartan, which is odd on two accounts. First, we were told that the Divine ordered all images of Shartan to be destroyed at the time of the Exalted March, so why did this one in Redcliffe survive? Secondly, in religious iconography the image at the head of the aisle is usually either the most important figure in the religion or the saint to whom the building is dedicated. Why then is Shartan given the place of honour in Redcliffe Chantry?
Of course the other oddity about the stained glass window as a depiction of Shartan is that he doesn't look like a warrior at all but seems to be dressed in robes of some form, thus leading people to think he must have been a mage not a warrior and then making the jump to saying it is Solas.
I do agree with you Midnight that it seems very significant that the barbarian tribes not only seem to have a common source of lore with the elves at some point but that they revere wolves and regard them as saviours and guardians of humanity. This is why I wonder if the reason the followers of the Evanuris linked humans to the fall of their original empire was because humans had recently appeared and the followers of Fen'Harel protected them from gods like Andruil who just wanted to hunt them for sport. In the version of Gisharel he speaks of the fact that the elves thought of humans as little more than pests at the height of the empire, which would lend some credence to this idea. It will be very interesting to see what the truth is about that early period of human history.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 21, 2017 21:04:02 GMT
I do hope you weren't suggesting I was "Stirring up personal sh*t for no reason". I was just making a jokey comment since at times it does seem that way. Lighten up, I just like to knock ideas around and see whether it produces anything new. After all no one is definitively correct or not until the writers reveal all. The "joke" didn't land and trolls only use it to try and st*r shit up - as evidenced above. If you want to make jokes, it'd probably be best to make it about presented arguments or topic at hand, not about people who happen to be active here. After all, we're both here to discuss ideas, not 'jokingly' guess personal motivations of people wanting to discuss them. Not necessarily. Abelas in Temple Of Mythal tells Inquisitor that they are bearing "familiar" magic. How familiar it was to him we can't tell, but it'd seem he can distinguish the types of magic - so it's possible ancient elves are able to distinguish who has cast a spell. The Veil was one heck of a magical feat, so it likely bore some characteristics of the caster. In fact Cole does say that Solas's "hurt" is "vast across the Veil". So his connection to the Veil is palpable at least to spirits. And we know some spirits were trapped in Vir Dirthara and could probably identify the caster, even if ancient elves trapped there couldn't. And if not - Fen'Harel was the one opposing Evanuris (we don't know of any prominent opponents active at that time), so figuring out that the Veil is his invention is not that far-fetched (and ultimately correct) of a guess. That doesn't really tell us much, aside from hints of a bigger power play happening between powerful entities that seem to have been vying for attention of mortals. The connection to Fen'Harel is a likely a result of Shartan's rebellion, rather than the cause of it. If the guy was charismatic enough, he would've found enough support among the slaves, especially with Andraste's successful rebellion marching on Tevinter. If the stained glass was considered too much of a valuable work of art, then it'd survive - just look how many depictions of ancient gods and goddesses and figures from Greek or Roman myths have survived even times of darkest religious repressions and counter-reformation movements in Europe. As for Shartan being given the place of honor in Redcliffe chantry... I'd say that it may symbolic reasons, but on meta level. I don't think it's that much of a coincidence for "Fen'Harel knockoff" to still be somewhat remembered in the middle of Ferlden, considering their curious dedication to dog and wolf imagery. I'm fairly sure the early history of humanity may be even more interesting than we imagine. Especially that so far we really don't have much to go by. We know of mysterious and ancient pyramids on Par Vollen, and of ruins of Brecilian forest that were inhabited both by elves and men - and we can't even tell at what time period it was, only that both elves and mankind seemed to live in harmony there and both were attacked by something menacing. I'd also like to point out that in Brecilian ruins we find description of some sort of strange ritual site that may or may not bear some connection to Well Of Sorrows.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 22, 2017 13:38:22 GMT
release date - November 11 2019
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2017 19:18:15 GMT
Is that just speculation or has one of the Devs broken ranks and revealed it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 3:09:44 GMT
release date - November 11 2019 Should we start a betting pool?
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Post by congokong on Jun 26, 2017 19:36:53 GMT
All I know is that I'll be very disappointed if I don't have the opportunity to wipe out a dalish clan again. It's been a tradition in every Dragon Age game thus far. It's also safe to assume after Morrigan, Anders, Solas, and Blackwall that any potential love interest who repeatedly warns you not to seriously get involved with them is hiding something pretty nasty. You've been warned.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 26, 2017 19:46:25 GMT
All I know is that I'll be very disappointed if I don't have the opportunity to wipe out a dalish clan again. It's been a tradition in every Dragon Age game thus far. It's also safe to assume after Morrigan, Anders, Solas, and Blackwall that any potential love interest who repeatedly warns you not to seriously get involved with them is hiding something pretty nasty. You've been warned. I'm almost waiting for a plot twist - a romanceable mage who repeatedly warns about romancing them will turn out to be THE perfect cinnamon roll, while most trustworthy companion will turn out to have the nastiest secret, lul.
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Post by jadedragon on Jun 26, 2017 19:48:43 GMT
Just some events I think DA4 will focus on throughout its story.
-Tevinter Reform: this maybe a main focus of Dorian and his group and given past games I am sure we will have more then a hand in reshaping Tevinter politically. I expect this storyline to be what really introduces us to the culture in Tevinter.
-Qunari Invasion: Every game has its wars or conflict, if Qunari are making moves in the south I can only imagine it will be a matter of time before they go with a full scale Invasion especially with some of the other countries going through a rebuilding phase. I expect this to be the central conflict of the game. I am assuming possibly appearance from Sten(Arishok if alive), Tallis and or Rasaan(possibly maybe Ariqun by the Invasion).
-Dread Wolf Elf Uprising: This is the conflict centering around Solas while I suspect it to be a major conflict in DA4 I doubt our 1st game in Tevinter we are going to center it solely around elves. While a important event to the series I think whatever Solas is doing with the elves will be hinted through out the game and slowly built up till after the other two events take place with this story rapping up the game either extending Solas arc for another game or ending it.
Things I would like to see in game
-Seheron: Fog Warriors included
-Rivani: Raiders of the Walking Sea have there logo all over DAI. From the war table map to locations in game, DAI was the most heavy there presence has been hinted at apart from DA2 and actually having Isabela as a companion. I think Isabela will return DA4 central to the story concerning the Qunari and whatever story includes the Armada. This is the only faction I hope our character joins especially since Bioware seems to be testing out going in the Water more.
-Grand Tevinter Cities: Orlais has some grand landmarks within the city we never got to see at all. Hopefully DA4 can balance out the wildlife and regions Tevinter has that makes them unique but also the cities and culture that makes them unique also.
-Digging Deeper with Dwarves: DA2 was the time to put a focus on the Mages conflict while DAI wrapped it up. DAI introduced us deeper into Elf history and DA4 has a good chance of wrapping that up or at least getting the main meat of the story out. DA4 has a chance at diving deeper into not just Dwarves and Titans but also Kal-Sharok. At the very least the Grand Proving should be explored as well as some Dwarven Embassies given that Dwarves have a higher social standing in Tevinter then Elves and Qunrai and it would suck if they got little to no content besides ruins and deep roads.
-Arlathan: Doubtful but if we are going to really run with this Elf story places like the Crossroads, Ancient Elves, and unlikely but possibly Arlathan needs to be focused on when its time for the Elf events.
-Another Magisters Sidereal: To be in Tevinter and not some how get more history on these 7 would be a shame. I expect we will get some Old God history both what current Tevinter thinks and past but I am hoping at least either in DLC or as a side superboss we fight. Hopefully the one who ate the other in the codex to explain that situation. With two old gods left I expect at least one of the Sidereal members of those two make a appearance or hint at in DA4.
-Kossith: The truth about Qunari and Kossith to me would be best explained in this game as I expect DA4 Qunari to be the most heavy focused game this race may have in the series.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2017 10:53:12 GMT
I'd like to at least find out what became of the other Magisters Sidereal. It seems pretty obvious that the Architect was one now but had no memory of his former life, at least not admitting as much. There was a codex indicating that one may have been killed and eaten by a couple of others who seemed to have gone pretty much crazy and may still be wandering the Deep Roads. Is it possible they were in some way linked to their respective Old God and their song, that their Old God was one of the ones already released in a Blight and that the death of their god and its associated song is what drove them to madness (a bit like the Mother)?
That would still leave two unaccounted for if there really was one representative of each Old God that went to the Golden City. So where are they? Is it possible that they actually managed to find their Old God's prison and hook up with them without starting a Blight? That is a truly terrifying thought, that the Old God is entirely in control of its mind and just biding its time with the High Priest before launching an assault on the world. What could they be waiting for? How about Solas dropping the Veil?
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Post by tacsear on Jul 1, 2017 18:08:26 GMT
How do you guys think DA4 will rank in your DA rankings. I know we don't know anything about it but we can play just for the heck of it right? I think it will be; O>4>I>2
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 1, 2017 19:02:06 GMT
How do you guys think DA4 will rank in your DA rankings. I know we don't know anything about it but we can play just for the heck of it right? I think it will be; O>4>I>2 No idea. Ideally, it would be excellent all around, but considering that we're not even at a time when the game is officially announced, I prefer not to speculate how much enjoyment it'd bring me. Chances are that even if the game would be well-received among critics and wide gaming community, it may just not hit the right kind of vibe for me, for whatever reason. It happens sometimes, even if (in theory) the game should be right up my alley. I sure hope it wont!... but it's a possibility :/ Anyway - so far most of my curiosity or downright impatience when it comes to DA4 is reserved for answers to at least some question and more lore to sink teeth in. In that regard I expect for the game to be fairly meaty and therefore satisfying. I think we're too far into the story for it to slow down.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 1, 2017 19:19:16 GMT
I don't really like ranking the games because each one has had its good and bad points. So long as they don't go off at a complete tangent and ignore what Solas is doing, I will be satisfied. If DAI represented half of the Solas plotline then I want DA4 to give us the other half, even if it is largely going on in the background to the main action, just as we knew the archdemon and the Blight was what we were ultimately needing to defeat but we had to do various other things along the way before we confronted it.
In terms of enemies though, Solas has the potential to be the best antagonist to date. Previously I thought the Arishok was the most interesting adversary we have encountered but Solas can blow him out of the water.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 1, 2017 19:28:49 GMT
I don't really like ranking the games because each one has had its good and bad points. So long as they don't go off at a complete tangent and ignore what Solas is doing, I will be satisfied. If DAI represented half of the Solas plotline then I want DA4 to give us the other half, even if it is largely going on in the background to the main action, just as we knew the archdemon and the Blight was what we were ultimately needing to defeat but we had to do various other things along the way before we confronted it. In terms of enemies though, Solas has the potential to be the best antagonist to date. Previously I thought the Arishok was the most interesting adversary we have encountered but Solas can blow him out of the water. I don't like ranking them too because it is my favourite franchise as a whole, but for the sake of starting a discussion I did it anyway. Someone said that Solas can be a reverse Loghain I can't remember who, but that was really on point
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Post by themikefest on Jul 1, 2017 19:34:19 GMT
I say leveling a character will be much higher in DA4 than it was for DAI. I would say level 35. It was frustrating that I could reach the highest level with my Inquisitor and still have a lot of the game left to complete
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Post by Lazarillo on Jul 1, 2017 19:40:03 GMT
I'm with gervaise21 in that I have a really hard time ranking the games against each other, because they all have really distinct high and low points, that it's surprisingly hard to compare them, despite enjoying them all. That said, my expectations for DA4 in terms of quality compared to the previous entries is very low. In terms of story, I fear we're going to get "Dragon Age Inquisition: Part 2", and more of the same stumbling points in the writing right along with that, which is going to cascade down into the presentation of the game being very similar as well. The two things that could save it could be a really good and compelling set of companions with game systems that work well with that, or some significant improvements to gameplay. In the case of the latter, it's gonna be hard to tweak what Inquisition had further, just because it already was a lot of fun. And in the case of the former, it's far too early to even begin to guess how that's going to look. So while I currently feel that, more or less, Origins = 2 = Inquisition, I also think, or maybe just strongly fear, that I'll find DA4 worse than the rest.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 1, 2017 19:51:07 GMT
I'm with gervaise21 in that I have a really hard time ranking the games against each other, because they all have really distinct high and low points, that it's surprisingly hard to compare them, despite enjoying them all. That said, my expectations for DA4 in terms of quality compared to the previous entries is very low. In terms of story, I fear we're going to get "Dragon Age Inquisition: Part 2", and more of the same stumbling points in the writing right along with that, which is going to cascade down into the presentation of the game being very similar as well. The two things that could save it could be a really good and compelling set of companions with game systems that work well with that, or some significant improvements to gameplay. In the case of the latter, it's gonna be hard to tweak what Inquisition had further, just because it already was a lot of fun. And in the case of the former, it's far too early to even begin to guess how that's going to look. So while I currently feel that, more or less, Origins = 2 = Inquisition, I also think, or maybe just strongly fear, that I'll find DA4 worse than the rest. It is curious. People feared andromeda would be inquisition in space, and now you fear that DA4 will be inquisition part 2. It seems the plots of and gameplay of modern Bioware games are being predicted based on DAI
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