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Post by hanskey on Jun 9, 2017 18:48:50 GMT
I think you mentioned you didn't want the job, but you would be a great community manager. Thanks, bro. (If I were really the community manager would I still have to Tweet @ Bioware employees to get info? Hmm!) yes, yes you would
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 18:54:21 GMT
This is not an exaggeration at all:
In my current workplace communication methods includes work email, the IM program that goes with the email, Flowdock, Trello, Basecamp, Slack, Google Chat, work cell phone text messages, and personal phone text messages.
I don't think anyone is Tweeting @ each other for work purposes but I cannot rule out that it is happening somewhere.
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Post by hanskey on Jun 9, 2017 18:59:54 GMT
This is not an exaggeration at all: In my current workplace communication methods includes work email, the IM program that goes with the email, Flowdock, Trello, Basecamp, Slack, Google Chat, work cell phone text messages, and personal phone text messages. I don't think anyone is Tweeting @ each other for work purposes but I cannot rule out that it is happening somewhere. lol! I was starting from "joke", but I ended on "actually, no that's totally plausible"
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 9, 2017 19:26:49 GMT
This is not an exaggeration at all: In my current workplace communication methods includes work email, the IM program that goes with the email, Flowdock, Trello, Basecamp, Slack, Google Chat, work cell phone text messages, and personal phone text messages. I don't think anyone is Tweeting @ each other for work purposes but I cannot rule out that it is happening somewhere. I thought we had it bad.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 19:47:01 GMT
Apparently 'communications' is the #1 complaint on employee surveys.
I feel that somehow these two pieces of information may be linked, but I can't put my finger on how....
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Post by Tigger on Jun 9, 2017 19:52:45 GMT
Congratulations. That is the most retarded shit I've read on BSN. What you are describing is a 100k Expert Pack with a higher chance of the single Rare being a weapon or character depending on which one you picked.
And the description of the Arsenal and Reserve Packs states "Contains 5 random items or characters, including at least 2 that are Rare or better, with a higher chance for weapons/characters."
Please run brainfart check before posting.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 19:52:45 GMT
This is a different game though: 1) there are 200 ultra rares. 200. 2) reserves and arsenal packs didn't matter like they do now. In ME3 there were 3 ultra rare kits, but all of which were not the same kind of drop as a weapon. There is a chance for an ultra rare character to drop AND and ultra rare gun to drop. They are separate chances in that game. Not in this one. I'm just saying they've made stupid decisions before with packs. If they make a change that gives that one extra real rare, they will soon discover (if not when they make the change) premium packs will be obsolete. Don't you think they'll do something to not make this the case? Right now, premiums give variety to the store: two cards. The new packs also give variety: one true card, but a higher chance at one type of drop than another. This is the most legitimate form of "working as intended" I've ever seen. And people need to get that before it's taken away from them and hindsight shows them what idiots they were to complain in the first place. No offence to anyone here, I'm just trying to save you and the community from a terrible mistake. None of this theory is valid because they explicitly said that they're supposed to drop two rares like the premium packs. It doesn't matter whether you think it's a good idea or not that they work as they do because people bought packs (myself included) based on their representations that turned out to be false. The misleading information is both in the store itself and was stated on stream. If you sell a Lamborghini for $15k, you can't ship a Volvo just because you think it's still a fair deal. It's just a fear that I have for the community at large. As someone who has maxed their character kits and removed 30% of the drops from the pool of ultra rares from these maxes, even if this does happen, I won't have to worry about the adverse affects of any kind of negative change until another ultra rare kit drops. And even then, probably to a lesser degree than most, again as at that point, assuming a new gun, about 1/4 of the drops will no longer be in my pool. I'm just worried about the negative impact the community might face if they make a change based on this kind of feedback, sit a while, then realize that the change leaves premium packs untouched because they've become worthless. Granted, no one at Bioware/EA should care. Whether 200 AP or 100K credits, what pack sells is irrelevant - this isn't inventory that needs to move, they are ones and zeros that have zero intrinsic value outside of the single physical charges they hold. But I've seen them involve themselves, and act on more stupid concerns than before. To be frank, I think this is a completely fair trade off to the expert pack nerf, and I was very outspoken about that bs at the time. But the fact that they didn't make both changes at the same time just leaves room for non-association potentially enabling the short sighted, long-term memory lacking schema of bioware's decisions (both tangible and lack there of) to continue that pattern. TL:DR - Faith in Bioware = less than great.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 20:13:42 GMT
Congratulations. That is the most retarded shit I've read on BSN. What you are describing is a 100k Expert Pack with a higher chance of the single Rare being a weapon or character depending on which one you picked. And the description of the Arsenal and Reserve Packs states "Contains 5 random items or characters, including at least 2 that are Rare or better, with a higher chance for weapons/characters." Please run brainfart check before posting. 1) You're completely ignoring the UR drop rate differences which are presently about the same as premium packs when picking reserves, at least from what I've seen. Assuming they haven't given us back the 10 count pity timer on experts, they are still garbage rates. 2) An overview of what the new packs actually give us: Inherent value of the new packs, particularly reserves: Rare maxed manifest time with standard premium: ________________ Rare maxed manifest time using new packs: ___________________________________ <-- what people are worried about UR maxed manifest time with standard premium: ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ UR maxed manifest time with new packs (reserves): ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ |________________________________________________| | | ________________________________________________________________| | | | only guns left (est. pool of 12-14) |window of time/unlocks it will take to max character kits given a 3/4 chance of UR being character. I.E. 75/200 unlocks/37.5% of all unlocks. Adjust for present # of unlocks and there's still a great benefit up to, say half of all ultra rares unlocked, if not more. ^-- the bigger pictureIf this somehow gets changed in response to "what people are worried about," I'd expect that bioware would counter the benefit of these packs to be cut by half or a third - example: UR drop rate nerf. There are two rares in the pack description: fine. You know what's not in the pack description? UR drop rates. Which one do you think they could legitimately fiddle with if they wanted to?
If you can live with not as much right now in order to get more in the long run, why wouldn't you? I really can't think of a good example, so I just asked the question said example would present.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 20:21:19 GMT
I think you think you're explaining your theory better than you're actually explaining your theory.
You keep implying that people will unlock Ultra Rares faster if things are left the way they are, and I really doubt that's true, given that the drop rate (by your own admission) has not increased.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 20:33:02 GMT
I think you think you're explaining your theory better than you're actually explaining your theory. You keep implying that people will unlock Ultra Rares faster if things are left the way they are, and I really doubt that's true, given that the drop rate (by your own admission) has not increased. The new pack benefit: 1) maxing a small pool of 6 kits long before maxing out everything. Getting all of your kits at 40% completion rather than encountering your first and second maxed kit at 80-90% completion. Benefit continues with a new UR kit being dropped. 2) having a small pool of maxed UR cards sooner lessening the pool of UR cards left. Also useful when a new UR gun drops. 3) locked points problem solved. 4) hunt UR kits much easier than before/with some modicum of control and not 100% rngsus. Bioware could easily put a price on this if they wanted to. The initial price: one less true rare. The future price of the true rare is replaced: more likely something than nothing. Yes, nothing has happened to how long it takes to max your manifest. I'm not hiding that. But for anyone to think or assert that what I'm pointing out is a distinction with no difference is completely false. You or anyone else on the grind. This actually gives your grind something to look forward to at about the half way point. How would you feel if your UR kits were all maxed but you still had about 80 URs to unlock? Well, speaking from experience, it feels pretty damn good and like I actually got somewhere along the journey.
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Post by Tigger on Jun 9, 2017 20:39:10 GMT
I think you think you're explaining your theory better than you're actually explaining your theory. You keep implying that people will unlock Ultra Rares faster if things are left the way they are, and I really doubt that's true, given that the drop rate (by your own admission) has not increased. You mean to tell me the same drop rate with half as many chances isn't better?
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Post by lennybusker on Jun 9, 2017 20:43:36 GMT
I asked him the same question a few hours before JRandall0308 and that was the answer: So, one slot like Premium while the other always goes for weapons (Arsenal) or characters (Reserves). And if you dont't have any rares of that type left and didn't roll UR, then you get something from the fallback pool aka boosters. well this explains it perfectly. /thread.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 20:47:12 GMT
Except... there's also this exchange: So at this point: - Do I know how Premiums are supposed to work?
- Does Fernando know how Premiums are supposed to work?
- Are Premiums actually working the way they are supposed to work?
WHO KNOWS?!
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 20:53:33 GMT
Okay, I'll give it a shot. The new pack benefit: 1) maxing a small pool of 6 kits long before maxing out everything. You would need a lot of evidence to support this. You seem to be under the impression that these packs will unlock Ultra Rares faster. You are literally saying that you unlock a pool of 6 ultra rares faster because of a small increase in a a card sub-type probability, despite it having exactly the same ultra rare drop rate either way. The likelihood of weapons over characters or vice versa (which is a lot smaller than you seem to think it is) is not going to make the total pool get unlocked any faster, regardless of which type of unlockable it is. You keep saying otherwise, but have not provided anything but your personal purchase pool to support this, and that does not actually prove anything but what one RNG experience showed. Getting all of your kits at 40% completion rather than encountering your first and second maxed kit at 80-90% completion. Even if that were true (you are much more convinced of it than I am) then the benefit is limited to the people who consider that something they care about. Since, in the long run, it makes no difference to how long it takes to max a manifest either way, it's not something most people are likely to consider serious. It's fine if you do, but I'd guess that less than 1 % of total players will ever even max their manifest. 2) having a small pool of maxed UR cards sooner lessening the pool of UR cards left. Also useful when a new UR gun drops. I'm pretty sure you suffer from gambler's fallacy. Maybe not, but it really sounds a lot like it. How many Ultra Rares you have unlocked of a certain type does not speed up the rate at which you unlock the remaining ultra rares. It will always be the same RNG drop rate, regardless of whether you have unlocked weapons or characters. _________________________ At this point, it's up to you if you want to run with the crusade. I'm telling you two things that I hope register: 1 - Most people aren't going to see this the way that you do, and are almost certainly going to see the two guaranteed rares as the important thing to address community-wise. You're free to disagree, but I hope you recognize you represent a very small minority of RNG concerns, long-term. 2 - Your understanding of how gambling odds work shows characteristics of gambler's fallacy (albeit with a distinctly optimistic bent when it comes to odds) and it's important to recognize what that is when you're dealing with statistics. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking things are more or less likely based on confirmation bias, rather than actual odds.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 20:55:55 GMT
You mean to tell me the same drop rate with half as many chances isn't better? It really depends on what exactly you think is happening. Is it better to be half-way through unlocking your manifest than at the beginning? Yes. It means you're probably half-way there. Does it mean that it will take less time to unlock the second half then the first because now the odds are twice as high in each pack? No. Edit: I think I just realized that may have been sarcasm.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 20:59:27 GMT
I feel like I need to try summing this thread up again:
Right now, the "cost" of an arsenal or reserves pack is the one less true rare. If it's given back due to these complaints, there will be another type of cost thrown back in, be it UR drop rate nerf or pack price increase.
I'm not crazy, this has happened before: The expert pack nerf.
There was no reason to buy premium packs - the ratio was turning out to be only slightly better (1$ to 2% more UR drop rate) than if people just stuck to expert packs.
Granted, this time there isn't the question of people getting double consumables or the more expensive pack not being bought, but what do you think will happen when the premium pack becomes obsolete again? My guess would be something.
All in all, non of this is going to matter. People looking the gift horse in the mouth are still going to complain. 1000 people complaining vs say 900 or 800 people complain isn't going to matter. They'll still be pushed toward a change that I'd wished for the community's sake, they weren't even pushed toward in the first place.
I just really don't want to have to tell everyone I told you so.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 21:05:11 GMT
I feel like I need to try summing this thread up again: Right now, the "cost" of an arsenal or reserves pack is the one less true rare. If it's given back due to these complaints, there will be another type of cost thrown back in, be it UR drop rate nerf or pack price increase. Honestly, I'll stop after I make this point: You need evidence for your assertions to convince people, and you don't have it. If you had a statement from a BioWare employee saying "The Cost of Reserve/Arsenal is intended to be one less guaranteed Rare" than some of what you're saying would make sense. But the statements from BioWare contradict you. They do not support the lack of second Rare as a "cost" that is intended, but rather a quirk of the priority system that may not be working correctly. And with that, I will call it a day, and hope everything works out the best for everyone.
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Post by lennybusker on Jun 9, 2017 21:10:22 GMT
Except... there's also this exchange: So at this point: - Do I know how Premiums are supposed to work?
- Does Fernando know how Premiums are supposed to work?
- Are Premiums actually working the way they are supposed to work?
WHO KNOWS?! - I've never seen any evidence ever of a Premium not providing 2 rares provided there are 2 separate rares left in the manifest (i.e. I don't think they can give Reegar V and Reegar VI in one pack) I think it's pretty easy to see that Arsenals and Reserves are the only ones with the odd mechanic - they have 1 rare slot that works like the Premium Rare Slot, and 1 rare slot that works as a [Arsenal/Reserve] Rare Slot. If you don't have anything the Arsenal or Reserve Rare Slot can unlock, it goes to booster. It's not really confusing at all.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 21:16:12 GMT
(1) - I've never seen any evidence ever of a Premium not providing 2 rares provided there are 2 separate rares left in the manifest (i.e. I don't think they can give Reegar V and Reegar VI in one pack) (2) I think it's pretty easy to see that Arsenals and Reserves are the only ones with the odd mechanic - they have 1 rare slot that works like the Premium Rare Slot, and 1 rare slot that works as a [Arsenal/Reserve] Rare Slot. If you don't have anything the Arsenal or Reserve Rare Slot can unlock, it goes to booster. (3) It's not really confusing at all. (1) Agreed, I've *always* received at least 2 non-booster (R/UR) when it was possible to do so. But, how to parse Fernando's tweet: "... same as reg premium pk the wp/kit aren't guaranteed, may still get boost[er]". Now, it is hard to convey nuance in 140 characters. But is he saying that "regular premium packs" do *not* guarantee at least 2 (R/UR) weapons or kits (characters)? Because if that is what he is saying that is VASTLY different than how Premiums ever worked in the past. (2) Well that is an interesting hypothesis - let's get to testing! (3) It is at least mildly confusing because we don't know the expected results with any level of precision. We are going based on in-game descriptions (which are notoriously dodgy) or cryptic Tweets. I would prefer some nice straightforward Cucumber to read.
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Post by lennybusker on Jun 9, 2017 21:17:23 GMT
I mean, BW not knowing how the game works is pretty much par for the course, innit
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 21:21:14 GMT
I feel like I need to try summing this thread up again: Right now, the "cost" of an arsenal or reserves pack is the one less true rare. If it's given back due to these complaints, there will be another type of cost thrown back in, be it UR drop rate nerf or pack price increase. Honestly, I'll stop after I make this point: You need evidence for your assertions to convince people, and you don't have it. If you had a statement from a BioWare employee saying "The Cost of Reserve/Arsenal is intended to be one less guaranteed Rare" than some of what you're saying would make sense. But the statements from BioWare contradict you. They do not support the lack of second Rare as a "cost" that is intended, but rather a quirk of the priority system that may not be working correctly. And with that, I will call it a day, and hope everything works out the best for everyone. Fair enough. But I'm not saying "here's what bioware intended." What I'm AM saying is "here are the assertions/conclusions that can be drawn based on x findings" which I just posted album proof to my topic: bsn.boards.net/thread/11121/premium-arsenal-conclusion-before-updatedI'm drawing conclusions and assertions from the results, I'm not saying I'm the unofficial bioware insider and know how it all goes down. For all I know this could have all been sparked by two maxed rare manifest peeps who didn't know they can't get duplicate cards if there's only one left and these packs are working fine for non rare maxed people. I don't know.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 21:21:31 GMT
I mean, BW not knowing how the game works is pretty much par for the course, innit Oh Lenny, it is the same everywhere. The company I work for now does not know for sure what emails get sent to customers who order from them. The company I worked for before did not for sure what happens on an insurance policy when you added a child under 16. The company I worked for before that did not know for sure what happens when money attempts to deposit to an account that has been locked for potential fraud. THAT'S BECAUSE NOBODY EVER WROTE ANY GORRAM TESTS AROUND ANYTHING. It was all based on ancient "documentation" or knowledge in somebody's head. The ONLY way to know what code does is to execute the code and observe the results. And, the ONLY way to write good code is to wrap it with tests. Bioware is not the only company that does neither.
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