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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 1:56:56 GMT
I've seen two posts on here regarding people getting a single rare weapon/character card in a arsenal/reserves pack. This is working as intended - not the sarcastic no-one-cares working as intended, but actually: bsn.boards.net/thread/11131/beware-rare-consumables-reserve-packsThe reason this is not a screw-you-players "working as intended is as follows: Bioware had to put some kind of a "price" on higher chance drops of characters/weapons on packs that cost the same as the standard premiums. They had three options: 1) increase the price (highly unlikely) 2) decrease the ultra rare drop rate 3) have a consumable count as one of the "rare" cards Also, proof of same drop rate of standard premium packs outside of it being confirmed in the live stream: bsn.boards.net/thread/11121/premium-arsenal-conclusion-before-changeIt doesn't take a genius to realize that the option that is best for the community is 3. But in case it needs spelling out, which it clearly does based on the complaints that are taken all the way to service tickets, here's the skinny: If this keeps up and people keep complaining directly to support and Bioware actually listens by putting in a second weapon/kit card, they're going to have to rebalance that somehow in order to make the premium pack not obsolete. I.E. option 2) decrease ultra rare drop rate. This would be a complete reversal of the good these packs do. TL:DR: People, please, realize that even with half of the rare cards dropping, in the ultra rare grind long run, it's not going to matter even if it takes you twice as long to max your rares. By the time you do, you'll still have probably half of the ultra rares left to unlock.Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. And these packs let you go gun/kit hunting a LOT better than you had to subject yourself to before. Take it from me as someone who just maxed all 6 ultra rare kits thanks to the reserves pack. That is INSANELY useful as the ultra rares with the greatest reward (locked skill points) are also in the smallest pool (6 characters as opposed to 14 weapons). Without these, it's back to either more rng or more money. If this keeps up and people keep complaining directly to support and Bioware actually listens by putting in a second weapon/kit card at the expense of UR drop rates, it will only be the fault of the community and non on their part. If you have to complain about something, complain about the credits adjustment based on waves completed and how it is terrible for the game and community. But please god leave these packs alone. So, with all due respect... Everyone, please shut the hell up before you all screw the rest of us.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 2:03:55 GMT
The Arsenal/Reserve pack's description does not actually say that it offers a higher chance for ultra rare than the premium. The higher chance is supposed to be for characters or weapons depending on the pack you choose.
If it is actually offering a higher UR drop rate than the Premium pack, I think you're deluding yourself if you believe the eventual change will be because of community complaints. If they change it, it will be because Premium packs aren't selling due to having a lower UR drop rate.
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Post by Gya on Jun 9, 2017 2:06:03 GMT
Spread the word and educate... Spreaducate.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 2:06:19 GMT
The Arsenal/Reserve pack's description does not actually say that it offers a higher chance for ultra rare than the premium. The higher chance is supposed to be for characters or weapons depending on the pack you choose. If it is actually offering a higher UR drop rate than the Premium pack, I think you're deluding yourself if you think the eventual change will be because of community complaints. If they change it, it will be because Premium packs aren't selling due to having a lower UR drop rate. No the drop rates are the same as the premium packs for ultra rares. I'm saying the chance of weapons/character kits are higher, as the pack states, and it gives players more control over what they unlock. We're going to lose that if players are too short sighted and are only upset because they don't see a true second rare.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 2:07:18 GMT
Spread the word and educate... Spreaducate. Stwistusion.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 2:11:17 GMT
The Arsenal/Reserve pack's description does not actually say that it offers a higher chance for ultra rare than the premium. The higher chance is supposed to be for characters or weapons depending on the pack you choose. If it is actually offering a higher UR drop rate than the Premium pack, I think you're deluding yourself if you think the eventual change will be because of community complaints. If they change it, it will be because Premium packs aren't selling due to having a lower UR drop rate. No the drop rates are the same as the premium packs for ultra rares. I'm saying the chance of weapons/character kits are higher, as the pack states, and it gives players more control over what they unlock. We're going to lose that if players are too short sighted and are only upset because they don't see a true second rare. I can see your point, but I think you're over-reacting to a couple of people's posts. It's hard to imagine that they'll change much based on what anyone in here says. I don't see there being a problem with the cards working as described. If they don't return two rares when people still have the appropriate ones to unlock, it can probably be addressed.
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Post by vomder on Jun 9, 2017 2:59:01 GMT
So these respective packs don't give two weapons/characters if you still have them to unlock? That makes them inferior to the Premium packs.
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Post by passacaglia on Jun 9, 2017 3:19:54 GMT
Yes, the math works out great for you if you're already maxed. For many players, though, we're months of play away from maxing rares. When we open a pack that says "two rares", that's what we expect. If, as you say, rares aren't even a consideration for people who are on the grand hunt for ultra rares, then it shouldn't cost Bioware anything to drop two normal rares for unmaxed manifests, since either way, we casuals are still spending 100k/300AP on a two-rare pack, and either way, the hardcores won't notice because they're maxed on rares anyway.
If nothing else, they could have at least explained it a bit better, since the Premiums clearly don't have the "consumable as rare" feature, the Arsenal/Reserves packs didn't do this in ME3MP, and it's a nasty surprise when you only get to play a few games a day.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 3:28:50 GMT
Yes, the math works out great for you if you're already maxed. Not really. By which I don't mean to contradict you, just to point out that it doesn't work out great for anyone. It just doesn't work out badly for people with maxed Rares, because they're getting exactly what they're paying for - two ultra rare chances of equal value. But as far as it actually helping unlock the ultra rare manifest - it doesn't. It takes exactly the same number of drops at exactly the same rate, regardless of whether you buy Arsenal or Reserve packs. There is no increased drop rate, so the only difference the cards offer is a small chance that you will get a weapon over a character and vice/versa. Given the size of the pool, the statistical difference would be very small.
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Post by shinobiwan on Jun 9, 2017 3:37:35 GMT
No. Absolutely not ok.
The relevant portion of the description is the same as premium packs. If the rare slots don't work the same, it's at best extremely misleading even if you ascribe value to the ability to skew the results towards weapons or characters.
Not that I agree with the premise, but even if they felt the need to effectively take one of the rare slots away to offset the selection value, they needed to say that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 4:12:31 GMT
Personally I think these packs are a cool idea. Helps to sift through things faster much like ME3's weapon and characters specific packs. Glad that they're finally on track to start competing with ME3 seriously now.
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Post by xaijin on Jun 9, 2017 4:41:52 GMT
Histrionic thread is histrionic.
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Post by onehitparry on Jun 9, 2017 4:56:08 GMT
The reason this is not a screw-you-players "working as intended is as follows: Bioware had to put some kind of a "price" on higher chance drops of characters/weapons on packs that cost the same as the standard premiums. In a vacuum I would agree with your logic. But this seems different from ME3. If I understand correctly, people are getting only one rare even though they don't have rares maxed out. This isn't how Reserve and Arsenal packs worked in the previous game. Premeium, Reserve, Arsenal packs were all the same price and always gave two rares (only gave consumables if your rares were maxed out). You just picked a pack based on whether you wanted weapons, characters, or didn't care.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jun 9, 2017 5:03:30 GMT
The reason this is not a screw-you-players "working as intended is as follows: Bioware had to put some kind of a "price" on higher chance drops of characters/weapons on packs that cost the same as the standard premiums. In a vacuum I would agree with your logic. But this seems different from ME3. If I understand correctly, people are getting only one rare even though they don't have rares maxed out. This isn't how Reserve and Arsenal packs worked in the previous game. Premeium, Reserve, Arsenal packs were all the same price and always gave two rares (only gave consumables if your rares were maxed out). You just picked a pack based on whether you wanted weapons, characters, or didn't care. This is a different game though: 1) there are 200 ultra rares. 200. 2) reserves and arsenal packs didn't matter like they do now. In ME3 there were 3 ultra rare kits, but all of which were not the same kind of drop as a weapon. There is a chance for an ultra rare character to drop AND and ultra rare gun to drop. They are separate chances in that game. Not in this one. I'm just saying they've made stupid decisions before with packs. If they make a change that gives that one extra real rare, they will soon discover (if not when they make the change) premium packs will be obsolete. Don't you think they'll do something to not make this the case? Right now, premiums give variety to the store: two cards. The new packs also give variety: one true card, but a higher chance at one type of drop than another. This is the most legitimate form of "working as intended" I've ever seen. And people need to get that before it's taken away from them and hindsight shows them what idiots they were to complain in the first place. No offence to anyone here, I'm just trying to save you and the community from a terrible mistake.
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Post by N7Mith on Jun 9, 2017 5:10:33 GMT
I also got only 1 rare weapon in a premium pack. So my guess is; Firstly these packs were there from the start, but for some stupid reason they thought it better to release them late. Second they've reverted the fix where this would happen with the update. Thirdly they intended to so people who spend real money get screwed.
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Post by TheThirdRace on Jun 9, 2017 14:03:28 GMT
I respectfully disagree and do think you're completely wrong. Bioware specifically stated that Arsenal/Reserve packs are the same as Premium, but when you do unlock an UR, you have an higher chance that UR is a Weapon or Character respectively. The odds of an UR are the same, the price of the packs is the same. They included such pack so people have a tiny bit more choice within the RNG system. Given they are the same as Premium packs for all intent and purpose, they should behave exactly the same as the Premium pack except for the UR type when a UR is unlocked. Consumables have never been considered as an "expected card". The proof is in all the other packs:- Basic packs don't consider a consumable as a Common card
- Advanced packs don't consider a consumable as an Uncommon card
- Expert packs don't consider a consumable as a Rare card
- Premium packs don't consider a consumable as a Rare/UR card
I think you can easily see why people are complaining... While your argument is logical, it's much much more likely there's a bug with the packs than they decided to screw us over. Especially since the packs are new... The fact EA support isn't aware of anything doesn't prove anything. They're still referring people to this forum for help instead of actually doing their job... They have absolutely no idea what they're talking about...
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 14:09:19 GMT
I asked Fernando Melo on Twitter. He was super active yesterday - let's hope he is also checking today. P.S. It is just now ~ 07:00 in Edmonton so give him some time.
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Post by EatYourOatmeal on Jun 9, 2017 16:28:09 GMT
So, from what I've read so far: Buy Premium packs until Rares are maxed. Then buy Arsenal or Reserves depending on what you want to max first? Also, probably a bug in Arsenal/Reserve packs dropping only 1 Rare whereas Premium packs always gave you 2 Rares.
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Post by shinobiwan on Jun 9, 2017 16:41:01 GMT
In a vacuum I would agree with your logic. But this seems different from ME3. If I understand correctly, people are getting only one rare even though they don't have rares maxed out. This isn't how Reserve and Arsenal packs worked in the previous game. Premeium, Reserve, Arsenal packs were all the same price and always gave two rares (only gave consumables if your rares were maxed out). You just picked a pack based on whether you wanted weapons, characters, or didn't care. This is a different game though: 1) there are 200 ultra rares. 200. 2) reserves and arsenal packs didn't matter like they do now. In ME3 there were 3 ultra rare kits, but all of which were not the same kind of drop as a weapon. There is a chance for an ultra rare character to drop AND and ultra rare gun to drop. They are separate chances in that game. Not in this one. I'm just saying they've made stupid decisions before with packs. If they make a change that gives that one extra real rare, they will soon discover (if not when they make the change) premium packs will be obsolete. Don't you think they'll do something to not make this the case? Right now, premiums give variety to the store: two cards. The new packs also give variety: one true card, but a higher chance at one type of drop than another. This is the most legitimate form of "working as intended" I've ever seen. And people need to get that before it's taken away from them and hindsight shows them what idiots they were to complain in the first place. No offence to anyone here, I'm just trying to save you and the community from a terrible mistake. None of this theory is valid because they explicitly said that they're supposed to drop two rares like the premium packs. It doesn't matter whether you think it's a good idea or not that they work as they do because people bought packs (myself included) based on their representations that turned out to be false. The misleading information is both in the store itself and was stated on stream. If you sell a Lamborghini for $15k, you can't ship a Volvo just because you think it's still a fair deal.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 16:54:18 GMT
Fernando Melo's response: If I am interpreting this correctly -- if you did NOT have Rares maxed (or all but 1 category of Rares maxed, as with people just spamming packs for the Reegar) and you got < 2 Rares this is *probably* a bug. You can wait and see what info filter out today, or you can open a ticket on EA Answers. help.ea.com/en/contact-us/Choose your game, choose your platform, "Select topic" = Missing Content, "Select issue" = Never received content, then click the blue "Select contact option" button and choose how you want to interact with them (Chat or Get a Call).
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 9, 2017 17:25:02 GMT
So, from what I've read so far: Buy Premium packs until Rares are maxed. Then buy Arsenal or Reserves depending on what you want to max first? Also, probably a bug in Arsenal/Reserve packs dropping only 1 Rare whereas Premium packs always gave you 2 Rares. I would say that these are the safest assumptions to operate under until we have more concrete information, or something changes. (With the possible exception of it being a bug, because at the moment, I'm no longer convinced there is enough information to assume either that less than one rare is intended, or that there is even is a statistical issue with receiving two rares.)
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Post by onehitparry on Jun 9, 2017 18:21:06 GMT
Fernando Melo's response: If I am interpreting this correctly -- if you did NOT have Rares maxed (or all but 1 category of Rares maxed, as with people just spamming packs for the Reegar) and you got < 2 Rares this is *probably* a bug. You can wait and see what info filter out today, or you can open a ticket on EA Answers. help.ea.com/en/contact-us/Choose your game, choose your platform, "Select topic" = Missing Content, "Select issue" = Never received content, then click the blue "Select contact option" button and choose how you want to interact with them (Chat or Get a Call). I think you mentioned you didn't want the job, but you would be a great community manager.
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Post by SentinelBorg on Jun 9, 2017 18:25:24 GMT
I asked him the same question a few hours before JRandall0308 and that was the answer: So, one slot like Premium while the other always goes for weapons (Arsenal) or characters (Reserves). And if you dont't have any rares of that type left and didn't roll UR, then you get something from the fallback pool aka boosters.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 9, 2017 18:26:10 GMT
I think you mentioned you didn't want the job, but you would be a great community manager. Thanks, bro. (If I were really the community manager would I still have to Tweet @ Bioware employees to get info? Hmm!)
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Post by someN7orother on Jun 9, 2017 18:39:15 GMT
I think you mentioned you didn't want the job, but you would be a great community manager. Thanks, bro. (If I were really the community manager would I still have to Tweet @ Bioware employees to get info? Hmm!) You'd likely have to use their internal email system that needs to be triple-checked by the Marketing dept and then sent over to Legal for final approval. And... wow, it's friday already? Get back to ya on monday, have a nice weekend. Be thankful for Twitter.
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