viperion
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by viperion on Jun 12, 2017 19:03:05 GMT
Hey all
After seeing the game play trailer.. i got exited... but after 5 min later something nagged at my mind.
How big is the chance that this game would be graphically downgraded?
I'm sure everyone has heard about the famous The Division game play trailer and everyone wanted to play it, but when it came out live, most of players left with a bitter taste in the mouth. "this game wasn't any close like in the game play trailer!!!"
So i ask the devs or the community managers
Are y'all gonna keep on promises to not shed the quality of the game such as ye showed in game play trailer?
Trust me on this, there are a lot of players that would be far more cautious to not be baited by a cgi like game play trailer.
No pressure bioware!
- Viperion
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 12, 2017 19:13:36 GMT
It's a good question. History has shown that downgrades are inevitable. But, so many game developers have been severely punished for overpromising and underdelivering that it seems almost criminally stupid to repeat that mistake.
So I think it will land somewhere in the middle. As long as you have a top tier gaming rig with Windows 10 / XBoneX / PS4 Pro, you'll get the full experience, perhaps with a few glitches here and there. Everyone else will get a sub-par experience. Which doesn't bode well for me with my Win7 4-year old PC and PS4 (no Pro). That would allow them to claim they delivered what they promised, even if it's to only 27% of the customer base. The other 73% get a lot less.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 12, 2017 19:24:40 GMT
Hey all After seeing the game play trailer.. i got exited... but after 5 min later something nagged at my mind. How big is the chance that this game would be graphically downgraded? I'm sure everyone has heard about the famous The Division game play trailer and everyone wanted to play it, but when it came out live, most of players left with a bitter taste in the mouth. "this game wasn't any close like in the game play trailer!!!" So i ask the devs or the community managers Are y'all gonna keep on promises to not shed the quality of the game such as ye showed in game play trailer? Trust me on this, there are a lot of players that would be far more cautious to not be baited by a cgi like game play trailer. No pressure bioware! - Viperion I imagine Anthem will launch on EA Access. Like MEA before it, people can try the game before ordering or listen to feedback from those that try it. There's no reason for anyone who is cautious to be tricked into anything.
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viperion
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by viperion on Jun 12, 2017 19:36:08 GMT
I'm aware of that, not all has the top tier gaming rig. But I kind of expect such max settings as in the trailer for those who has the juice to do it.
but problem isn't just graphics, game-play as well. I just hope ... that Bioware don't over promising and ending up to have a game that everyone have bought and being so disappointed.
And i do hope EA/Bioware don't rush it! We have all seeing how it ends.
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 12, 2017 19:38:58 GMT
It's a good question. History has shown that downgrades are inevitable. But, so many game developers have been severely punished for overpromising and underdelivering that it seems almost criminally stupid to repeat that mistake. So I think it will land somewhere in the middle. As long as you have a top tier gaming rig with Windows 10 / XBoneX / PS4 Pro, you'll get the full experience, perhaps with a few glitches here and there. Everyone else will get a sub-par experience. Which doesn't bode well for me with my Win7 4-year old PC and PS4 (no Pro). That would allow them to claim they delivered what they promised, even if it's to only 27% of the customer base. The other 73% get a lot less. That's not good, but I'd rather that than have it be like Dragon Age Inquisition where the whole game was limited by the capabilities of the previous gen consoles. Catering to the least capable machine isn't necessarily desirable.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Jun 12, 2017 22:11:14 GMT
Graphical downgrades and delivering games with less than promised is sadly a part of how the industry works. Earlier I was watching Mass Effect Andromedas E3 2016 video and I remembered how freakin awesome it looked and how thw end product was different.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 12, 2017 22:26:43 GMT
In most cases visual downgrades will happen. Doubly so if you aren't running it on a PC at ultra settings/4k, since that tends to be what developers use to show off a game.
That said people will quickly forget about the visual downgrade so long as the game itself is actually good, which is what matters far more than the game looking like it did in the trailer in my opinion.
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Post by lennybusker on Jun 13, 2017 0:18:41 GMT
What I've never understood is why everyone has to suffer because lower-end machines (read: consoles) can't handle running things how the developers often envision things in the early days of development. "Well there's not enough memory to have male and female versions of all the aliens" = no one gets female Turians/Krogans, etc.
I assume that it's something like doing a global cut back on textures, models, and overall graphical settings somehow saves time and/or money, but I would think in a perfect world high end PCs would be able to hit the lofty development goals. I could understand cutting something because no one can run it, but cutting it because only a portion of the audience can't run it just seems odd to me.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 13, 2017 0:43:09 GMT
What I've never understood is why everyone has to suffer because lower-end machines (read: consoles) can't handle running things how the developers often envision things in the early days of development. "Well there's not enough memory to have male and female versions of all the aliens" = no one gets female Turians/Krogans, etc. I assume that it's something like doing a global cut back on textures, models, and overall graphical settings somehow saves time and/or money, but I would think in a perfect world high end PCs would be able to hit the lofty development goals. I could understand cutting something because no one can run it, but cutting it because only a portion of the audience can't run it just seems odd to me. Consoles are a lot closer to the average PC gaming rig, particularly with PS4 Pro and XBoneX. The specs are getting quite decent. So it should no longer be the case of having to "dumb down" a game to fit in a console. On the contrary, the average to below average gaming PC running Win7 is looking like the least common denominator. But designing to the LCD is still going to happen, how could it not? You want the broadest possible market for a game, particularly a version 1.0 new franchise. Hopefully, though, the dumbing down will be graceful degradation without sacrificing anything in the high-end. HDR vs. non-HDR and 4K vs. HD are obvious trade-offs that shouldn't hurt the high end at all. Maybe someday will get to the point where the game looks and performs as well as possible for each of low-end, mid-range, and high-end. You just get more awesome on the high-end.
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Post by lennybusker on Jun 13, 2017 1:15:49 GMT
But what I mean is I want those of us with the hardware to push the game to its limits to get the most outstanding experience possible. As it is now, it's like a car manufacturer saying "well most roads only have a speed limit of 50, therefore I'll make this car that can't go over 50."
And those of us with access to a highway are left saying "uhhhhh, wow. ok then."
Resources during development crunch time notwithstanding, I don't see why a game can't just be designed to run on low settings on low hardware, medium settings on medium hardware (consoles included), and high settings on high hardware. And the high settings should look as good as they can possible make it look.
There should be no downgrade for those of us with top of the line hardware, is what I'm saying. In case I'm rambling. I do that sometimes.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 13, 2017 21:36:07 GMT
What I've never understood is why everyone has to suffer because lower-end machines (read: consoles) can't handle running things how the developers often envision things in the early days of development. "Well there's not enough memory to have male and female versions of all the aliens" = no one gets female Turians/Krogans, etc. I assume that it's something like doing a global cut back on textures, models, and overall graphical settings somehow saves time and/or money, but I would think in a perfect world high end PCs would be able to hit the lofty development goals. I could understand cutting something because no one can run it, but cutting it because only a portion of the audience can't run it just seems odd to me. To be honest I would blame mid-range PCs as much as I do consoles for them not wanting to push things. The reality is that the average PC gamer isn't running a rig with a 1080ti or Titan Xp, which are about the only 2 cards you should even think about right now if you're aiming for 4k @ 60 FPS(and even then, they'll struggle to maintain it at all times). Also things like no female Krogans or Turians in the earlier Mass Effect games wasn't because the Xbox 360 couldn't handle it, but rather because they didn't want to use the development resources on making those models and animations. Though the visual downgrade usually comes in the form of visual effects so that they don't have to worry about optimizing them or developing them further so they actually work properly. What we saw was a heavily scripted few minutes of Anthem, so many of the things we saw wont be working properly as they say it's going to just yet. If the percentage of people who will experience it is too small, it's often not considering as being worth spending that much of your development time on it. Keeping the visuals as we saw it in the trailer very well might require that they give up something else in the game that's more important than pretty visuals.
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Post by lennybusker on Jun 13, 2017 22:20:34 GMT
What I've never understood is why everyone has to suffer because lower-end machines (read: consoles) can't handle running things how the developers often envision things in the early days of development. "Well there's not enough memory to have male and female versions of all the aliens" = no one gets female Turians/Krogans, etc. I assume that it's something like doing a global cut back on textures, models, and overall graphical settings somehow saves time and/or money, but I would think in a perfect world high end PCs would be able to hit the lofty development goals. I could understand cutting something because no one can run it, but cutting it because only a portion of the audience can't run it just seems odd to me. To be honest I would blame mid-range PCs as much as I do consoles for them not wanting to push things. The reality is that the average PC gamer isn't running a rig with a 1080ti or Titan Xp, which are about the only 2 cards you should even think about right now if you're aiming for 4k @ 60 FPS(and even then, they'll struggle to maintain it at all times). Also things like no female Krogans or Turians in the earlier Mass Effect games wasn't because the Xbox 360 couldn't handle it, but rather because they didn't want to use the development resources on making those models and animations. Though the visual downgrade usually comes in the form of visual effects so that they don't have to worry about optimizing them or developing them further so they actually work properly. What we saw was a heavily scripted few minutes of Anthem, so many of the things we saw wont be working properly as they say it's going to just yet. If the percentage of people who will experience it is too small, it's often not considering as being worth spending that much of your development time on it. Keeping the visuals as we saw it in the trailer very well might require that they give up something else in the game that's more important than pretty visuals. I wish that they would just leave those effects and whatnot in the game and lock it behind "Ultra" settings or something. Don't even bother doing a performance optimization pass until after launch, if ever. Just put a note on the setting screen that says "experimental settings- may adversely affect game performance and stability." If they put them in the presentation (and the presentation isn't totally prerendered) then they already did the hard work of coding it.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 13, 2017 23:00:55 GMT
To be honest I would blame mid-range PCs as much as I do consoles for them not wanting to push things. The reality is that the average PC gamer isn't running a rig with a 1080ti or Titan Xp, which are about the only 2 cards you should even think about right now if you're aiming for 4k @ 60 FPS(and even then, they'll struggle to maintain it at all times). Also things like no female Krogans or Turians in the earlier Mass Effect games wasn't because the Xbox 360 couldn't handle it, but rather because they didn't want to use the development resources on making those models and animations. Though the visual downgrade usually comes in the form of visual effects so that they don't have to worry about optimizing them or developing them further so they actually work properly. What we saw was a heavily scripted few minutes of Anthem, so many of the things we saw wont be working properly as they say it's going to just yet. If the percentage of people who will experience it is too small, it's often not considering as being worth spending that much of your development time on it. Keeping the visuals as we saw it in the trailer very well might require that they give up something else in the game that's more important than pretty visuals. I wish that they would just leave those effects and whatnot in the game and lock it behind "Ultra" settings or something. Don't even bother doing a performance optimization pass until after launch, if ever. Just put a note on the setting screen that says "experimental settings- may adversely affect game performance and stability." If they put them in the presentation (and the presentation isn't totally prerendered) then they already did the hard work of coding it. A lot of the time they use tricks to make it look like how they intend for it to be in the final game. That dynamic weather we saw in the Anthem trailer for example probably isn't dynamic right now in the game. It was very likely a script designed to do exactly what we saw in the game, because that's much easier to code and that's how they intend the final thing to look anyway. This is why changes from presentations even happen in the first place, sometimes they figure out that they don't have the time or resources to do what they originally showed off. When we're talking about stuff that's in alpha that was never developed further, it's a miracle that it even runs on the developer's machines much less the wide array of machines that customers will have. It's generally just not worth putting into the game, not even with a note about how unstable it's going to be. Most of the time developers get bashed for putting half developed features in their games.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 15, 2017 0:25:58 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Not an issue with me.
After DA:I, I buy games after launch and after reviews and from users who bought the game. ANTHEM's "live service" already put me in the negative.
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