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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Mar 5, 2019 23:59:13 GMT
Let's see how the producers will finish ruining the story. Oh I cant wait for the tears and whining and sweet drama of the book hardliners, this is gonna be glorious.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 6, 2019 0:17:29 GMT
Let's see how the producers will finish ruining the story. Oh I cant wait for the tears and whining and sweet drama of the book hardliners, this is gonna be glorious. It's nothing about being a book hardliner, it's about the story being absurdely stupid and making no sense.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Mar 6, 2019 1:31:46 GMT
Oh I cant wait for the tears and whining and sweet drama of the book hardliners, this is gonna be glorious. It's nothing about being a book hardliner, it's about the story being absurdely stupid and making no sense. Can't wait for that kind if whining either, people are so passionate about GOT that their whining is always so enjoyable.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 6, 2019 1:37:44 GMT
It's nothing about being a book hardliner, it's about the story being absurdely stupid and making no sense. Can't wait for that kind if whining either, people are so passionate about GOT that their whining is always so enjoyable. Yeah, I get you're quite experienced at it.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Mar 6, 2019 1:41:06 GMT
Can't wait for that kind if whining either, people are so passionate about GOT that their whining is always so enjoyable. Yeah, I get you're quite experienced at it. No. Its nice little show, but I don't take it too seriously. Same with the books.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Mar 6, 2019 3:53:19 GMT
Let's see how the producers will finish ruining the story. Oh I cant wait for the tears and whining and sweet drama of the book hardliners, this is gonna be glorious. The books are technically behind the show, there's nothing to ruin from the book perspective... technically
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Post by wickedcool on Mar 6, 2019 14:47:33 GMT
They haven’t ruined anything Casting and acting-a+ Visuals-a+ Story changes-clearly minimal as Martin had input. Seriously what’s been ruined(the omitted characters that have no bearing on the plot) One of the best ever fantasy book-film conversions of all time One Of the best tv shows of all time
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 6, 2019 15:45:57 GMT
Do we know how many episodes they'll have? Hope it's not another 6 episode BS because "we spent all the money on CGI" . Seems like it was yesterday when I started watching this, Burned all S1 in like 2 weekends, and now it's the final one.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 6, 2019 16:50:04 GMT
They haven’t ruined anything Casting and acting-a+ Visuals-a+ Story changes-clearly minimal as Martin had input. Seriously what’s been ruined(the omitted characters that have no bearing on the plot) One of the best ever fantasy book-film conversions of all time One Of the best tv shows of all time The story last season was absolutely pathetic. Martin stopped having input on season 5, which is exactly when things started going down. He already stated the ending in the books will be very different. Some characters were just clearly lost: Melisandre, Varys (HEY GUY, I THOUGHT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THE MASTER OF WHISPERS?), Tyrion became stupid, Littlefinger also becomes stupid (they also made it seem like he was the one that ordered Bran killed, which makes no sense), Daenerys became a tyrant bitch, Randyll Tarly in one episode says "I don't backstab", next episode he backstabs That "fight" between Sansa and Arya was so forced, and only solved with deus ex-machina (brother with access to medieval internet) Jonerys so terribly built But the worst was the so-called "plan" to get a zombie to present to Cersei, that's gotta be the most stupid plan ever. 07x06 was, no question, the worst episode on the show, absolutely nothing there made sense. To top it, not only their plan was stupid and didn't work (since Cersei plans to betray them), but gave the Night King the means to actually blow the wall. Which means if they didn't do anything, the Night King wouldn't be able to go through the wall? Ugh, so many things wrong with that episode and that season. Since season 5, the show has been going down. The only good moments on season 7 were Olenna's death and Arya killing the rest of the Freys.
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Post by mousestalker on Mar 6, 2019 16:58:41 GMT
Game of Thrones was great in season one, then once Sean Bean was executed it went into a bit of of a decline. But once season four started it just became ever better. Once the writers felt free to depart from the Martini canon and began to stretch their wings, it really began to take off. If the trend continues it will end on quite a high note. Looking forward to the final season!
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 6, 2019 19:44:06 GMT
The story last season was absolutely pathetic. Martin stopped having input on season 5, which is exactly when things started going down. He already stated the ending in the books will be very different. Some characters were just clearly lost: Melisandre, Varys (HEY GUY, I THOUGHT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THE MASTER OF WHISPERS?), Tyrion became stupid, Littlefinger also becomes stupid (they also made it seem like he was the one that ordered Bran killed, which makes no sense), Daenerys became a tyrant bitch, Randyll Tarly in one episode says "I don't backstab", next episode he backstabs That "fight" between Sansa and Arya was so forced, and only solved with deus ex-machina (brother with access to medieval internet) Jonerys so terribly built But the worst was the so-called "plan" to get a zombie to present to Cersei, that's gotta be the most stupid plan ever. 07x06 was, no question, the worst episode on the show, absolutely nothing there made sense. To top it, not only their plan was stupid and didn't work (since Cersei plans to betray them), but gave the Night King the means to actually blow the wall. Which means if they didn't do anything, the Night King wouldn't be able to go through the wall? Ugh, so many things wrong with that episode and that season. Since season 5, the show has been going down. The only good moments on season 7 were Olenna's death and Arya killing the rest of the Freys. I agree to an extent. Don't mind some characters turning out to be one thing or the other so long as it makes sense. But true, a lot of the plots were created or solved in such bullshit manners ever since S5 I believe, it's not even funny. Getting rid of characters for no purpose, things that make no sense, and the "there's always something..." feeling. All this was particularly present in the last Season, which for me was the worst of all. My hope is the last Season turns out to be good, otherwise it will be a bad way of ending this for me at least.
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Post by Blast Processor on Mar 6, 2019 23:46:01 GMT
The problem I have with it is how predicable its gotten. Season 7 practically wrote itself. In my opinion the show has been pretty rocky post season 4. It has been interesting watching the shows transition from high fantasy masquerading as low fantasy, to your standard high fantasy tale.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 7, 2019 2:45:41 GMT
Also, I used to be afraid of my favorite characters dying. Now I don't have that fear, because most of the characters became pretty boring. I couldn't care two shits if Jon or Daenerys die. Hell, I actually hope they both die. The only character I really care is Arya, and maybe Sandor/Brienne, but I couldn't care less for the rest. Even Tyrion, who I used to love, became a complete unlikable (?) character
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Post by Sifr on Mar 7, 2019 7:20:17 GMT
Some characters were just clearly lost: Melisandre, Varys (HEY GUY, I THOUGHT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THE MASTER OF WHISPERS?), Tyrion became stupid, Littlefinger also becomes stupid (they also made it seem like he was the one that ordered Bran killed, which makes no sense), Daenerys became a tyrant bitch, Randyll Tarly in one episode says "I don't backstab", next episode he backstabs That "fight" between Sansa and Arya was so forced, and only solved with deus ex-machina (brother with access to medieval internet) Jonerys so terribly built Tyrion's ineptness when left in charge of Meereen could at least be justified by his unfamiliarity with Essos, the players and their politics, putting him at a clear disadvantage when trying to negotiate with them. But it's not excusable that that Tyrion and Varys, two people highly familiar and adept at Westerosi politics should find themselves repeatedly blindsided throughout S6.
Tyrion may be a better at dealing with people during peacetime than during wartime, but we've seen him to be a highly intelligent and adaptable man. Meanwhile Varys is someone who has experience dealing with the 7 Kingdoms during wartime, as he served the Mad King during Robert's Rebellion.
Honestly, it feels like the writers needed some way to nerf Dany's massive army so she didn't roll over everyone, so they made Tyrion and Varys appear like incompetent fools by getting half her army killed in various ways? Because they couldn't have Dany's overconfidence and typical aggressive approach be the reason her entire party was nearly wiped out, which would have been completely in-character.
Dany becoming a tyrant isn't out of character though, she's been acting like an entitled brat (look at her ever growing list of names she loves to rattle off) ever since Qarth. As I've often said before, Dany sadly comes across as a terrible leader in the show, going by the unmitigated disaster that was her tenure as Queen of Meereen and the chaos she left Slavery's Bay in.
For all the flack that we given Tyrion over his failed negotiation with the Masters, at least he knows how to negotiate. Dany's idea of negotiation seems to be "Do what I say or I'll burn you alive with my dragons", which has left her rather conceited. Her reaction to Jon refusing to bend the knee was obvious annoyance, as though she's no longer used to not getting her own way immediately.
Speaking of bending the knee, Randall Tarly's refusal to do so doesn't really make much sense. They'd already established that he was a loyalist who fought for the Targaryen's during Robert's Rebellion and was responsible for orchestrating the only battle that Robert lost during the war, so you'd think he'd welcome their restoration? He might a stubborn jerkass who takes his vows seriously, but he should really have no reason to be loyal to Cersei, a pretender on the throne, over Dany?
Arya and Sansa's "fight" came across as ridiculous and nonsensical. It would have been so much better if they had been deliberately playing Littlefinger, pretending that there was this huge rift between the sisters, allowing them to lure Littlefinger into a sense of false complacency.
As for Jonerys, they should have built up that relationship over the last two seasons before hooking them up in S8, as the limited amount of episodes and condense story made that seem way too rushed. They took their time over a couple seasons when it came to showing the progression of the relationships between Dany and Daario, as well as Jon and Ygritte.
(Hell, by the time it took for Dany to finally sleep with Daario, he wasn't even played by the same actor any more!)
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Post by House Targaryen on Mar 7, 2019 17:22:14 GMT
Actually Tarly's disgust and hatred of savages is made clear. He hates the Wildlings and Dany bringing over savages and foreigners onto Westrosi soil to fight for her was too much for him. Therefore he lost any loyalty to her.
Even though their convo is brief, he would rather follow someone of Westros blood than someone who allowed foreigners to invade their lands.
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Post by wickedcool on Mar 7, 2019 18:33:44 GMT
In the books didn’t the night watch try the same thing with bringing a zombie hand?
Pretty sure i read that Martin gave them a rough template for the ending . If so many of you hate it then why watch and ruin the books (assuming he finishes it)
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 7, 2019 23:20:13 GMT
In the books didn’t the night watch try the same thing with bringing a zombie hand? Pretty sure i read that Martin gave them a rough template for the ending . If so many of you hate it then why watch and ruin the books (assuming he finishes it) They brought a zombie hand they already had They didn't go to the other side of the wall just to try to get an alive zombie, that would be absurdely stupid. Especially among 7 guys.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 7, 2019 23:21:36 GMT
Actually Tarly's disgust and hatred of savages is made clear. He hates the Wildlings and Dany bringing over savages and foreigners onto Westrosi soil to fight for her was too much for him. Therefore he lost any loyalty to her. Even though their convo is brief, he would rather follow someone of Westros blood than someone who allowed foreigners to invade their lands. Even though he hates savages, he would surely hate the Lannisters more. Daenerys is Aerys' daughter, he fought for Aerys and the Lannister genocided the house he served. There's no way book Tarly would ally with them. At best he wouldn't support either side.
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Post by wickedcool on Mar 8, 2019 3:02:16 GMT
In regards to sending 7 men over the wall as stupid
Isn’t the 12 soldiers a true story? Sounds similar In fact aren’t there many instances of this in world history. Didn’t they create a fake movie to rescue hostages?
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 17:11:41 GMT
In the books didn’t the night watch try the same thing with bringing a zombie hand? Pretty sure i read that Martin gave them a rough template for the ending . If so many of you hate it then why watch and ruin the books (assuming he finishes it) They brought a zombie hand they already had They didn't go to the other side of the wall just to try to get an alive zombie, that would be absurdely stupid. Especially among 7 guys. I can't recall, but wasn't the Wight hand dismissed in the books as some kind of trick? Actually Tarly's disgust and hatred of savages is made clear. He hates the Wildlings and Dany bringing over savages and foreigners onto Westrosi soil to fight for her was too much for him. Therefore he lost any loyalty to her. Even though their convo is brief, he would rather follow someone of Westros blood than someone who allowed foreigners to invade their lands. Even though he hates savages, he would surely hate the Lannisters more. Daenerys is Aerys' daughter, he fought for Aerys and the Lannister genocided the house he served. There's no way book Tarly would ally with them. At best he wouldn't support either side. You'd have thought that someone would have brought up his prior service to the Targaryens during that scene?
Randall could have mentioned it when giving his reasons for not accepting her as his Queen, Tyrion could have when trying to convince Dany to spare Randall or Dickon... or even Dany, to show that she's actually savvy about the Great Houses of Westeros she wishes to rule over? It's weird no-one mentions it at all.
What they could have done was have Drogon kill Dickon during the battle, thereby giving Randall a far better reason why he'd refuse to bend the knee to Dany. With his favourite son dead and Sam disinherited, his House was now effectively ended anyway. Aside from his life, what else does he stand to lose by stubbornly defying her?
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 10, 2019 17:27:12 GMT
I can't recall, but wasn't the Wight hand dismissed in the books as some kind of trick? By the time Sir Allastair got to the south that thing looked like anyone's rotten hand. Plus the "child king" was on the throne, so what could be expected really.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 17:46:41 GMT
The "capture a wight" plan wasn't an inherently bad idea, but that doesn't really excuse how badly prepared they were when it came to actually carrying it out.
What was their exfiltration plan after capturing the wight and how did they think they'd get it back to the Wall without the Night's King catching on? Why wasn't the Night's Watch more involved in this plan and why didn't they consider sending out multiple parties to increase their chances of success? Why didn't Jon scout the coast for wights via ship or see if there were any stragglers to be found at Hardhome?
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 10, 2019 17:53:51 GMT
I can't recall, but wasn't the Wight hand dismissed in the books as some kind of trick? By the time Sir Allastair got to the south that thing looked like anyone's rotten hand. Plus the "child king" was on the throne, so what could be expected really. I think he mentioned the hand actually became dust or something like that. And who dismissed him was Tyrion, if I'm not mistaken. Tyrion actually did take the matter seriously on his mind, but he couldn't really act on it, or it would make him look ridiculous in front of the court.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 10, 2019 18:02:38 GMT
The "capture a wight" plan wasn't an inherently bad idea, but that doesn't really excuse how badly prepared they were when it came to actually carrying it out. What was their exfiltration plan after capturing the wight and how did they think they'd get it back to the Wall without the Night's King catching on? Why wasn't the Night's Watch more involved in this plan and why didn't they consider sending out multiple parties to increase their chances of success? Why didn't Jon scout the coast for wights via ship or see if there were any stragglers to be found at Hardhome? That whole episode was freaking terrible to be honest. Absolutely nothing made sense. They never considered the Night King to catch up on them, and when he does, they tell Gendry to run away, and he actually becomes The Flash and sends a raven to Daenerys, and that's the most pathetic part: They actually wait there for days, maybe weeks until Daenerys arrive. Why didn't the night king throw those ice spears on them? Speaking of ice spears, it's absolutely pathetic that, instead of aiming on Drogon, he shoots it at a smaller dragon who was farther. And even being like 483209489234 against about 7 guys, they only miss a few red shirts. Then Jon for no reason at all decides to play the hero and stay and gets saved by Benjen ex-machina. Ugh. And the question remains: If they didn't follow this stupid plan, how would the Night King go through the wall? Did he have a plan B? I think we'll never know.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 18:37:26 GMT
If the episode had them using a ship, that could have solved a lot of these problems.
They could have gone ashore to capture a wight and then retreated onboard afterwards, only for some catastrophe to prevent them from sailing away. Maybe the extreme cold from the coming winter (as well as the magical snowstorm following the Others) caused ice to form around their ship, trapping them there.
Rather than sending Gendry, they could have a sent a raven from the ship to the Night's Watch, in the hopes that they'd be close enough to send another ship to rescue them. Then have it be a surprise for everyone (audience and characters alike) when Dany shows up instead, having received a raven from Bran about the situation.
(For added Bran creeps out everyone by knowing everything, have her convinced because he told her other things that no-one could have known, such as what she saw in the House of the Undying or how she often thinks about the House with the Red Door)
Finally, the episode should have shown that some time passed while they've been trapped there. Have the tension come how they begin to buckle under the pressure, knowing the dead are waiting them out on the shoreline and wondering whether they'll be rescued before they freeze to death, starve or the iceflow crushes their ship?
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