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Post by Lavochkin on Apr 27, 2019 23:10:45 GMT
As to who will die...
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ScumbagShepurd
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Apr 28, 2019 4:53:43 GMT
If we were to ignore gender, then I'd say Rickon had a better chance of representing innocence than Sansa. no, just no. Rickon simply doesn't have enough screen time (book-wise too) to be anything more than a skyrim NPC bimping into walls for no apparent reason. We just don't know enough about him that could indicate his innocence or the lack of it. Sansa, on the other hand, really does fit the innocence trope at the beginning of the story - granted, only to be deconstructed later, but still.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 5:18:39 GMT
If we were to ignore gender, then I'd say Rickon had a better chance of representing innocence than Sansa. no, just no. Rickon simply doesn't have enough screen time (book-wise too) to be anything more than a skyrim NPC bimping into walls for no apparent reason. We just don't know enough about him that could indicate his innocence or the lack of it. Sansa, on the other hand, really does fit the innocence trope at the beginning of the story - granted, only to be deconstructed later, but still. Sansa never fit the innocence trope, she was always too self-centered for that. She caused a lot of her own problems, then blamed everyone else and she's still doing it. She was stupid, more than innocent and as she's gotten older she's become more and more like a younger version of Cersi. Very manipulative and resentful. Myrcella was more innocent than Sansa and she was Cesi's daughter. Rickon was always just a sweet kid and he tried to help look after Bran. Nothing he did caused the grief he went through before he died, he was just the victim to a lot of ladder climbing @holes. Lady and Mica might still be alive if Sansa had spoken up when she was questioned about what happened when Joffery got bit, but she was trying to impress him by staying quiet, she's also the one who insisted on staying in King's Landing, had she left when people wanted her to, she would've never been held captive by Cersi and a lot of things would've been different, but all she was doing was trying to become queen by marrying Joffery. Nah, Sansa is too much of an opportunist to be considered an innocent.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 28, 2019 5:38:22 GMT
Melisandre I bet shows up with the red sword Lightbringer. I'll be interested to see who actually gets it to burn again. Speaking of Lightbringer... can Jon use his blood to create a flaming sword, much like Beric Dondarrion?
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 28, 2019 7:10:30 GMT
Sansa never fit the innocence trope, she was always too self-centered for that. She caused a lot of her own problems, then blamed everyone else and she's still doing it. She was stupid, more than innocent and as she's gotten older she's become more and more like a younger version of Cersi. Very manipulative and resentful. Myrcella was more innocent than Sansa and she was Cesi's daughter. Rickon was always just a sweet kid and he tried to help look after Bran. Nothing he did caused the grief he went through before he died, he was just the victim to a lot of ladder climbing @holes. Lady and Mica might still be alive if Sansa had spoken up when she was questioned about what happened when Joffery got bit, but she was trying to impress him by staying quiet, she's also the one who insisted on staying in King's Landing, had she left when people wanted her to, she would've never been held captive by Cersi and a lot of things would've been different, but all she was doing was trying to become queen by marrying Joffery. Nah, Sansa is too much of an opportunist to be considered an innocent. Causing trouble through stupidity and shortsightedness, rather than malice, is innocence too. "A strange word, innocence. It means lack of knowledge, like the innocence of a child, and also means lack of guilt. Only those entirely ignorant can lack all responsibility for the consequences of their actions. He knows not what he does, and therefore can be without harmful intent; so says that word."Personally, I'd argue that Catelyn embodies that concept in the story. Her motivations were always pure and good, she was never made to understand exactly what was going on, and every action she took directly or inadvertently destabilized the continent and endangered her family at the worst possible time. And when she died, so did any sense of ingrained optimism or idealism in the story. Which one might argue was necessary for the heroes to be able to face the real threat with the proper resolve and preparedness, fully understanding the stakes and their own responsibility.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 10:44:05 GMT
Sansa never fit the innocence trope, she was always too self-centered for that. She caused a lot of her own problems, then blamed everyone else and she's still doing it. She was stupid, more than innocent and as she's gotten older she's become more and more like a younger version of Cersi. Very manipulative and resentful. Myrcella was more innocent than Sansa and she was Cesi's daughter. Rickon was always just a sweet kid and he tried to help look after Bran. Nothing he did caused the grief he went through before he died, he was just the victim to a lot of ladder climbing @holes. Lady and Mica might still be alive if Sansa had spoken up when she was questioned about what happened when Joffery got bit, but she was trying to impress him by staying quiet, she's also the one who insisted on staying in King's Landing, had she left when people wanted her to, she would've never been held captive by Cersi and a lot of things would've been different, but all she was doing was trying to become queen by marrying Joffery. Nah, Sansa is too much of an opportunist to be considered an innocent. Causing trouble through stupidity and shortsightedness, rather than malice, is innocence too. "A strange word, innocence. It means lack of knowledge, like the innocence of a child, and also means lack of guilt. Only those entirely ignorant can lack all responsibility for the consequences of their actions. He knows not what he does, and therefore can be without harmful intent; so says that word."Personally, I'd argue that Catelyn embodies that concept in the story. Her motivations were always pure and good, she was never made to understand exactly what was going on, and every action she took directly or inadvertently destabilized the continent and endangered her family at the worst possible time. And when she died, so did any sense of ingrained optimism or idealism in the story. Which one might argue was necessary for the heroes to be able to face the real threat with the proper resolve and preparedness, fully understanding the stakes and their own responsibility. The "without malice" thing though...there were a few things Sansa did out of spite, hoping to get Arya in trouble and whatnot, so I really do have a problem with putting her in that category when the other members of the Stark family embody the term better. Catelyn, yes, definitely, her main focus was always on her family and what she felt was best for them and Ned was literally an innocent when he was executed for crimes he didn't commit. The Maiden is about purity, innocence, beauty and love. I don't think Sansa completely fits that description. Brienne, on the other hand, does. She may not be pretty, she's kind of plain to look at, but her character, spirit is beautiful. Jaime recognizes that in her. Another who could fit that description would be Missandei, she has a child-like innocence and I'd say she also embodies the characteristics of the Maiden better than Sansa too. To me, it doesn't seem like not all the Starks are meant to represent The 7. I don't see how Jon is supposed to represent the Smith either...I have never seen him being creative or a craftsman...Gendry suites the role better...and he is literally a blacksmith.
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Post by Kelwing on Apr 28, 2019 14:42:02 GMT
Melisandre I bet shows up with the red sword Lightbringer. I'll be interested to see who actually gets it to burn again. Speaking of Lightbringer... can Jon use his blood to create a flaming sword, much like Beric Dondarrion? Dunno, I would think that only works for those that follow R'hllor or believe in it. Hopefully we see something tonight during this great battle.
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Post by Lavochkin on Apr 28, 2019 21:40:31 GMT
My Aunt bought this and apparently the Night King is in the liquor business. Seems like he's trying to expand his franchise down south into Westeros.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 22:19:32 GMT
Looks like someone is going to be getting the King Cailan treatment tonight. Wish I hadn't seen that.
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Apr 28, 2019 23:24:28 GMT
"The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away."
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Apr 28, 2019 23:26:50 GMT
"The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away." Jet fuel can't melt valyrian steel beams.
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Post by House Targaryen on Apr 28, 2019 23:43:16 GMT
So many houses could come to an end tonight. Two Starks, well two that can carry on the line Two Targaryens Two Mormonts Two Lannisters One Tarly One Baratheon
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 28, 2019 23:45:11 GMT
Anyone like the fan theory that the King is going to skip the battle altogether, fly down to King's Landing, blow up the place, and start raising corpses?
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 29, 2019 1:21:37 GMT
Anyone like the fan theory that the King is going to skip the battle altogether, fly down to King's Landing, blow up the place, and start raising corpses? I think at the very end of the episode we saw the night king (with his signature curved ice sword) on his horse looking at Winterfell. Something tells me though that the golden company is about to get crushed hard, judging by the way they handled the golden company so far I think they will be largely irrelevant. But thats just my gut feeling. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 2.799999999999997px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_76217792" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 2.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_47536590" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 2.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 81px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_30013548" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 2.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 81px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_49213150" scrolling="no"></iframe>
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Apr 29, 2019 2:30:53 GMT
Well. House Mormont, their watch has ended. So what army does Dany have now?
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Post by Blast Processor on Apr 29, 2019 2:37:24 GMT
The Night King is Dead! Long Live The Night King!
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ღ The Untitled
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Post by mousestalker on Apr 29, 2019 2:41:15 GMT
Lower body count than I expected. Huh.
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Post by Kelwing on Apr 29, 2019 2:41:40 GMT
Well. House Mormont, their watch has ended. So what army does Dany have now? Maybe a quarter of the Unsullied. Rest of her army is dead. One dragon alive...not sure on other.
House Mormont....to the end with honor....raises a cup
That battle at start was brutal and gave me chills watching it. Had no idea who was going to survive that really. The end I was FK ya stick him with the pointy end
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Post by melbella on Apr 29, 2019 2:45:11 GMT
What is dead can never die. But, it can be shattered into a billion little icicles by a short girl with a pointy knife.
As for the death toll, looks like House Mormont got the worst of it. A good death for Theon as well. Fun, tense episode but damn if it really wasn't too dark to see very well. Thank goodness for the fires lighting things up a bit.
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Apr 29, 2019 2:49:30 GMT
Well. House Mormont, their watch has ended. So what army does Dany have now? Maybe a quarter of the Unsullied. Rest of her army is dead. One dragon alive...not sure on other.
House Mormont....to the end with honor....raises a cup
That battle at start was brutal and gave me chills watching it. Had no idea who was going to survive that really. The end I was FK ya stick him with the pointy end The Dothraki were cannon fodder in this ep. They've been wiped out. Other than her dragons, they were a feared adversary on the battlefield for their unconventional battle tactics. I never cared much for these barbarians but they were a force to be recon with.
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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Apr 29, 2019 2:50:06 GMT
Alright I'm pissed. Are both Ghost and Rhaegal dead now and is it too much to hope for that they're just wounded? If that's the case, Ghost really deserved better then to make a charge and die off screen away from Jon. Also it's pretty sad how the Dothraki got completely decimated. Yay for Arya though. I thought Bran was going to Warg into the night King at first. And a toast to Lady Mormont. I was really hoping she'd make it through.
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Post by melbella on Apr 29, 2019 2:53:44 GMT
One dragon alive...not sure on other. Was good to see at least one dragon at the end but I'm worried about the other one that fell after fighting his ice brother. And Ghost! He was part of the first attack and I didn't see him return.
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Apr 29, 2019 2:56:28 GMT
The body count didn't go as expected. Certain individuals were being overwhelmed yet survived. That's my biggest disappointment with this ep.
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Post by Kelwing on Apr 29, 2019 2:59:39 GMT
Alright I'm pissed. Are both Ghost and Rhaegal dead now and is it too much to hope for that they're just wounded? If that's the case, Ghost really deserved better then to make a charge and die off screen away from Jon. Also it's pretty sad how the Dothraki got completely decimated. Yay for Arya though. I thought Bran was going to Warg into the night King at first. And a toast to Lady Mormont. I was really hoping she'd make it through. Regarding the first. I have the same question as well. Last seen with Jorah and the Dothraki.
The second, again not sure, seriously wounded at best. Saw try landing and running before Jon fell off. Then crashed down into snow.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Apr 29, 2019 3:03:18 GMT
What is dead can never die. But, it can be shattered into a billion little icicles by a short girl with a pointy knife.
As for the death toll, looks like House Mormont got the worst of it. A good death for Theon as well. Fun, tense episode but damn if it really wasn't too dark to see very well. Thank goodness for the fires lighting things up a bit. Amen! Also, all the shots were like 2 seconds long. It was confusing at times. But a great episode.
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