davkar
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Post by davkar on Feb 19, 2018 17:28:37 GMT
I created a world state in Keep where all Dalish, City elves, elven mages and elf-sympathizers are killed/made tranquil. You know, they could be Solas' agents. So... yeah, I'm commiting a genocide in the name of possible metagaming! I bet it will pay off in the fight with Fen'Harel! Hmm. Fenny woke in 9:38(?) so I don't think any of the DAO/2 elves were his agents. Of course when he blows the elvesunite! horn many of them will potentially join him. Zathrian for example. Revenge against humans+restoring elven immortality?! Sign me up baldy-bro!
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Post by opuspace on Feb 19, 2018 17:35:46 GMT
I created a world state in Keep where all Dalish, City elves, elven mages and elf-sympathizers are killed/made tranquil. You know, they could be Solas' agents. So... yeah, I'm commiting a genocide in the name of possible metagaming! I bet it will pay off in the fight with Fen'Harel! I don't know why, but this made me laugh. It's soooo facetious.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Feb 19, 2018 18:31:29 GMT
I created a world state in Keep where all Dalish, City elves, elven mages and elf-sympathizers are killed/made tranquil. You know, they could be Solas' agents. So... yeah, I'm commiting a genocide in the name of possible metagaming! I bet it will pay off in the fight with Fen'Harel! Hmm. Fenny woke in 9:38(?) so I don't think any of the DAO/2 elves were his agents. Of course when he blows the elvesunite! horn many of them will potentially join him. Zathrian for example. Revenge against humans+restoring elven immortality?! Sign me up baldy-bro! Not necessarily. Masked Empire spoilers: Felassan is/was an agent and he has/had been awake for years.
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davkar
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Post by davkar on Feb 19, 2018 21:15:46 GMT
Hmm. Fenny woke in 9:38(?) so I don't think any of the DAO/2 elves were his agents. Of course when he blows the elvesunite! horn many of them will potentially join him. Zathrian for example. Revenge against humans+restoring elven immortality?! Sign me up baldy-bro! Not necessarily. Masked Empire spoilers: Felassan is/was an agent and he has/had been awake for years. Meh, I'm not a fan of the non-game bw fanfics. They should include the character and plot relevant stuff in the games. I know there's some Cole mystery monologue about this in trespasser and Solas refers to him but it's not the same.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 19, 2018 21:59:58 GMT
Not necessarily. Masked Empire spoilers: Felassan is/was an agent and he has/had been awake for years. Meh, I'm not a fan of the non-game bw fanfics. They should include the character and plot relevant stuff in the games. I know there's some Cole mystery monologue about this in trespasser and Solas refers to him but it's not the same. It's like what happened with Kai Leng. No one had a chance to get to know about him in the game and no one was given any incentive to mourn him in the game. They did a better job with Cole in making it so we weren't dependent on having outside knowledge to appreciate him, but still...
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 20, 2018 0:30:58 GMT
The worst part is the "Fiona is Alistair's mother" thing from The Calling novel. I'm still going to plug my ears and deny it. The book never *outright* said it, after all!
It just... it totally ruins the realistic/gritty feel of that aspect of the story, you know? And feels unnecessary, too.
When I was first playing Origins, I didn't know King Maric. He was dead and gone, a background detail. So it felt plausible that, in this dark medieval setting, a king respected for freeing his country could also be the type who forced himself on castle servants and sired bastards while married. Instead, Alistair is apparently the half-elf spawn of a Gray Warden who managed to magically overcome the taint and become Grand Enchanter, and also, not only was it totally consensual, but Queen Rowan was dead for a few years at that point, never mind what Loghain clearly says ingame! My theory is that Gaider got too attached to his lame 2D "nice funny guy" Maric portrayal while writing the prequel books and couldn't go through with it.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 20, 2018 6:55:58 GMT
When I was first playing Origins, I didn't know King Maric. He was dead and gone, a background detail. So it felt plausible that, in this dark medieval setting, a king respected for freeing his country could also be the type who forced himself on castle servants and sired bastards while married. Err, what gave you the impression he was forcing himself on castle servants? Back before we knew anything about Fiona I just assumed Alistair was the product of a consensual affair, albeit one with a really iffy power dynamic..... but I never got the impression that Maric was raping people.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 6:58:06 GMT
When I was first playing Origins, I didn't know King Maric. He was dead and gone, a background detail. So it felt plausible that, in this dark medieval setting, a king respected for freeing his country could also be the type who forced himself on castle servants and sired bastards while married. Err, what gave you the impression he was forcing himself on castle servants? Back before we knew anything about Fiona I just assumed Alistair was the product of a consensual affair, albeit one with a really iffy power dynamic..... but I never got the impression that Maric was raping people. I ignore the whole Fiona is my mother thing too for Alistair, considering I rather dislike Fiona as a whole..
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davkar
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Post by davkar on Feb 20, 2018 7:25:22 GMT
The worst part is the "Fiona is Alistair's mother" thing from The Calling novel. I'm still going to plug my ears and deny it. The book never *outright* said it, after all! It just... it totally ruins the realistic/gritty feel of that aspect of the story, you know? And feels unnecessary, too. When I was first playing Origins, I didn't know King Maric. He was dead and gone, a background detail. So it felt plausible that, in this dark medieval setting, a king respected for freeing his country could also be the type who forced himself on castle servants and sired bastards while married. Instead, Alistair is apparently the half-elf spawn of a Gray Warden who managed to magically overcome the taint and become Grand Enchanter, and also, not only was it totally consensual, but Queen Rowan was dead for a few years at that point, never mind what Loghain clearly says ingame! My theory is that Gaider got too attached to his lame 2D "nice funny guy" Maric portrayal while writing the prequel books and couldn't go through with it. Although the possibly quarter-elf Kieran became slightly more interesting after the FleMythal reveal. My biggest issue with Fiona is the 'cured by the writing'. BW can easily turn her into a 'Maelon's research data' so if you want to save your Warden/wardens you have to pick the mages in DAI. I still don't know what to make of the non-pope Lelimancer slides in tp. Was the Warden's quest successful and oh, it wasn't a big deal at all? Did they abandon it because they were bored or found that the calling can't be cured?
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Post by melbella on Feb 20, 2018 13:51:48 GMT
When I was first playing Origins, I didn't know King Maric. He was dead and gone, a background detail. So it felt plausible that, in this dark medieval setting, a king respected for freeing his country could also be the type who forced himself on castle servants and sired bastards while married. Err, what gave you the impression he was forcing himself on castle servants? Back before we knew anything about Fiona I just assumed Alistair was the product of a consensual affair, albeit one with a really iffy power dynamic..... but I never got the impression that Maric was raping people.
That's Goldanna's version of events when you talk to her. Until later, that is the only version we have.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 20, 2018 14:08:01 GMT
That's Goldanna's version of events when you talk to her. Until later, that is the only version we have.
Because if ever there was a reliable source, it's that horrible woman... You may as well ask Corypheous.
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Post by warden on Feb 20, 2018 14:13:53 GMT
The worst part is the "Fiona is Alistair's mother" thing from The Calling novel. I'm still going to plug my ears and deny it. The book never *outright* said it, after all! It just... it totally ruins the realistic/gritty feel of that aspect of the story, you know? And feels unnecessary, too. When I was first playing Origins, I didn't know King Maric. He was dead and gone, a background detail. So it felt plausible that, in this dark medieval setting, a king respected for freeing his country could also be the type who forced himself on castle servants and sired bastards while married. Instead, Alistair is apparently the half-elf spawn of a Gray Warden who managed to magically overcome the taint and become Grand Enchanter, and also, not only was it totally consensual, but Queen Rowan was dead for a few years at that point, never mind what Loghain clearly says ingame! My theory is that Gaider got too attached to his lame 2D "nice funny guy" Maric portrayal while writing the prequel books and couldn't go through with it. Although the possibly quarter-elf Kieran became slightly more interesting after the FleMythal reveal. My biggest issue with Fiona is the 'cured by the writing'. BW can easily turn her into a 'Maelon's research data' so if you want to save your Warden/wardens you have to pick the mages in DAI. I still don't know what to make of the non-pope Lelimancer slides in tp. Was the Warden's quest successful and oh, it wasn't a big deal at all? Did they abandon it because they were bored or found that the calling can't be cured? You know that all the cure for the taint was simply to keep alive wardens off-screen right? You should not expect much of it, they maybe let it ambiguous or come with a poor resolution about it.
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Post by copper on Feb 20, 2018 15:11:31 GMT
That's Goldanna's version of events when you talk to her. Until later, that is the only version we have.
Because if ever there was a reliable source, it's that horrible woman... You may as well ask Corypheous. I dunno, I never liked Goldanna but I always believed that she believed her version of events. She was just a kid when her mother died, and children don't always perceive events correctly. What I don't get is what really happened to her mother. Was it just some random noble who knocked her up rather than Maric? And why even tell Alistair that this random serving woman was his mother? Just to stop him from asking questions?
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Post by phoray on Feb 20, 2018 15:43:47 GMT
Because if ever there was a reliable source, it's that horrible woman... You may as well ask Corypheous. I dunno, I never liked Goldanna but I always believed that she believed her version of events. She was just a kid when her mother died, and children don't always perceive events correctly. What I don't get is what really happened to her mother. Was it just some random noble who knocked her up rather than Maric? And why even tell Alistair that this random serving woman was his mother? Just to stop him from asking questions? DG wrote the books after DAO release. He has proclaimed the book as canon, but it conflicts heavily with the game. The thing of the game, though, is that it's long development time meant the plot changed several times. So I'm open to the idea that the books are more canon to the game on this matter. At the making of the scenes with Goldanna and the later discussion with Loghain, Alistair was a 100% human bastard because it would be too expensive to bring in the voice actors to change it all as well as go back and change the programming of those scenes and conversations. For Example, Loghain says Marric not only slept with some servant but that it was while their mutual friend, the Queen Rowan, was ALIVE. Implying he's an infideltous who participated in shady sex with servants. Whereas Queen Rowan has been dead a year when MAric goes on an adventure with Fiona and he's absolutely devastated his wife died, which doesn't coincide with a man who cheated on her and is otherwise portrayed to have been a doting husband her entire life. It's easy enough for me to just assume that Goldanna's mom dying was just coincidentally convenient as a source for the baby so that not too many questions would be asked about Eamon keeping said baby in a barn on his estate. Then I just ignore Loghain's dialogue on the matter because who cares what that traitor has to say
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Post by melbella on Feb 20, 2018 15:46:56 GMT
The thing is though, why tell Goldanna the lie AND pay her to keep quiet if that woman wasn't really Al's mom? It serves no purpose. I hate the Fiona retcon. I prefer my headcanon where Fiona/Maric's baby was actually Anders.
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Post by Curious Crow on Feb 20, 2018 16:03:10 GMT
DG wrote the books after DAO release. But the publishing date for the Stolen Throne is March 3 2009, the Calling is October 13 2009 and the game is November 3 2009? How does that work? Has Gaider been fiddling with the time rifts again?
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Post by phoray on Feb 20, 2018 16:06:50 GMT
DG wrote the books after DAO release. But the publishing date for the Stolen Throne is March 3 2009, the Calling is October 13 2009 and the game is November 3 2009? How does that work? Has Gaider been fiddling with the time rifts again? I stand corrected on the release date. I fall back onto that the game was changed a lot over ten years and it would have cost too much money to change it in the late stage so they let it be. It's really only Loghain's dialogue that truly conflicts, and most people chop his head off.
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 20, 2018 18:28:45 GMT
That's Goldanna's version of events when you talk to her. Until later, that is the only version we have.
Because if ever there was a reliable source, it's that horrible woman... You may as well ask Corypheous. I was sympathetic to Goldanna myself. She seemed justifiably bitter, and that was the whole tragedy of it. It may help that whenever I've played through that part I've had enough money for Alistair to offer her some, which makes her more willing to listen and ends the encounter on slightly more pleasant terms (though she's still not prepared to accept Alistair, and who can blame her - she doesn't seem quite as negative towards him anymore. I don't think she's a bad person.)
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 20, 2018 18:46:31 GMT
I was sympathetic to Goldanna myself. She seemed justifiably bitter, and that was the whole tragedy of it. It may help that whenever I've played through that part I've had enough money for Alistair to offer her some, which makes her more willing to listen and ends the encounter on slightly more pleasant terms (though she's still not prepared to accept Alistair, and who can blame her - she doesn't seem quite as negative towards him anymore. I don't think she's a bad person.) Why would you ever give money to that awful, money grubbing woman? Even when you give her the money (15 Sovereigns. You can supply an entire army with 30 Sovereigns) she complains that its not enough.
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 20, 2018 18:52:33 GMT
I was sympathetic to Goldanna myself. She seemed justifiably bitter, and that was the whole tragedy of it. It may help that whenever I've played through that part I've had enough money for Alistair to offer her some, which makes her more willing to listen and ends the encounter on slightly more pleasant terms (though she's still not prepared to accept Alistair, and who can blame her - she doesn't seem quite as negative towards him anymore. I don't think she's a bad person.) Why would you ever give money to that awful, money grubbing woman? Even when you give her the money (15 Sovereigns. You can supply an entire army with 30 Sovereigns) she complains that its not enough. Because her mother got raped and died in childbirth, leaving her as an orphan with only some loose change for keeping quiet, probably lived a life of hardship and struggle and now has to try to support a whole gaggle of children on a washerwoman's salary?
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 20, 2018 18:55:26 GMT
Because her mother got raped and died in childbirth, leaving her as an orphan with only some loose change for keeping quiet, probably lived a life of hardship and struggle and now has to try to support a whole gaggle of children on a washerwoman's salary? If she couldn't afford it, she shouldn't have had children... I prefer giving my money to people who deserve it. Basically what I'm getting at is her having a life of "hardship" isn't my problem, nor is it Alister's. He showed up trying to find a family connection, and she immediately tries to use him. Also SHES NOT HIS SISTER.
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davkar
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Post by davkar on Feb 21, 2018 20:00:27 GMT
Although the possibly quarter-elf Kieran became slightly more interesting after the FleMythal reveal. My biggest issue with Fiona is the 'cured by the writing'. BW can easily turn her into a 'Maelon's research data' so if you want to save your Warden/wardens you have to pick the mages in DAI. I still don't know what to make of the non-pope Lelimancer slides in tp. Was the Warden's quest successful and oh, it wasn't a big deal at all? Did they abandon it because they were bored or found that the calling can't be cured? You know that all the cure for the taint was simply to keep alive wardens off-screen right? You should not expect much of it, they maybe let it ambiguous or come with a poor resolution about it. Well, duh. If their appearance is just another letter in DA4+ I'll change them to US instead, that's a fitting end for a warden. Mori's(/+ogb Kieran) future role might affect my choice too.
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Post by warden on Feb 22, 2018 4:06:48 GMT
You know that all the cure for the taint was simply to keep alive wardens off-screen right? You should not expect much of it, they maybe let it ambiguous or come with a poor resolution about it. Well, duh. If their appearance is just another letter in DA4+ I'll change them to US instead, that's a fitting end for a warden. Mori's(/+ogb Kieran) future role might affect my choice too. I did that, I must say that it feels way better, alive wardens are a waste unfortunately.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 22, 2018 4:11:21 GMT
I love that stupid end boss fight with Meredith in Dragon Age 2. Its the most over the top, dumb, videogame-y boss fight I can think of.
Meredith is glowing, and screaming crap at you, and your friends all show up, and the stupid statues start waking up and fighting you!
And it ends with her exploding and turning into a red lyrium statue.
God its just a masterwork of dumb awesome videogame boss-fights. I would name my first born child "That Wonderfully Stupid Bossfight at the End of Dragon Age 2" if I could.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 22, 2018 6:47:18 GMT
I think I almost want to see what happens if someone were to fight Josephine over Carastian candies. That weirdly immature streak of hers makes me wonder how addictive those Tevinter sweets are if she's willing to steal from the Inquisitor and keep them for herself.
"...Magister Tilani sent her thanks, and tells me that her opponents have backed off for the time being. She's sent along some additional supplies to use as you see fit, and some Carastian candies which you will pry from my cold, dead fingers." -Josephine
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