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Post by swjobson on Aug 2, 2017 8:05:48 GMT
Yes, you can "use" them in gold games... but you can still score well enough with the Common-tier versions in gold if you try, too.
Like in a previous thread where I said that all Remnant weapons should be downgraded a full tier, the reskinned S weapons should *replace* the existing versions and become the new Commons.
Why? Look at the Katana SX. It's marginally worse on every stat that matters when it's compared to the Disciple X: damage, clip size, reserve ammo, accuracy, weight. They share the same rate of fire, but does anyone think that's a good argument to have it on the Rare tier?
You can make similar comparisons for the others. Avenger-S is overall worse than the Cyclone, Predator-S is worse than *both* Carnifex and Phalanx. Viper-S is only equal to the Vanquisher because the dev team decided to ruin that gun and there's no small clip semiauto sniper rifle at Uncommon to compare it to.
If the devs want these weapons to be this way, fine, but in fairness to the players they should be placed at their proper tier. I'm starting to think that the entire weapon list needs to be reworked.
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Aug 2, 2017 11:07:09 GMT
If the devs want these weapons to be this way, fine, but in fairness to the players they should be placed at their proper tier. I'm starting to think realize that the entire weapon list needs to be reworked. don't worrie homeslice, I took care of it for ya!  |
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Post by ProbeAway on Aug 2, 2017 12:25:57 GMT
Yes.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 2, 2017 14:21:58 GMT
I don't think they were meant to be good. I think they were a fix for the weapon challenges not tracking, disguised as new weapons.
And actually the Predator S is pretty sexy if you have an auto-fire controller or mouse.
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Post by roninld on Aug 2, 2017 14:25:19 GMT
I don't think they were meant to be good. I think they were a fix for the weapon challenges not tracking, disguised as new weapons. And actually the Predator S is pretty sexy if you have an auto-fire controller or mouse. Wait, the S weapons count towards the weapon challenges?!?! For some reason I thought I read somewhere they didn't. Thanks |
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Post by swjobson on Aug 2, 2017 23:23:07 GMT
Sitting in an idle game lobby, so I might as well draw up a list for weapons based on their v1.10 performance. Anything below Common doesn't need to be in MP.
Removed: Avenger, Charger, Predator, Predator-S, Incisor, Viper, Katana, Katana-S
Common: Avenger-S, Zalkin, Mattock, Disciple, Charger-S, Phalanx, Raptor, Viper-S, Widow
Uncommon: Cyclone, Halberd, Sandstorm, Sweeper, Carnifex, Equalizer, Sidewinder, Indra, Vanquisher, Lanat, Hesh, Ruzad, Scattershot, Venom
Rare: Ghost, Falcon, PAW, Revenant, Thokin, Eagle, Hornet, Scorpion, Talon, Ushior, Kishock, Isharay, Shadow, Valiant, Reegar, Crusader, Pirahna
Ultra: Soned, Valkyrie, Hurricane, Rozerad, Black Widow, Dhan
Unplaced: Inferno (I haven't used mine yet)
I tried to avoid placing weapons that perform the same role together on the same tier. None of them are equal, so they should be ranked accordingly. Guns with a charge timer were automatically downgraded because of their low RoF.
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Post by The Joe-Man on Aug 2, 2017 23:34:33 GMT
Sitting in an idle game lobby, so I might as well draw up a list for weapons based on their v1.10 performance. Anything below Common doesn't need to be in MP. Removed: Avenger, Charger, Predator, Predator-S, Incisor, Viper, Katana, Katana-S Common: Avenger-S, Zalkin, Mattock, Disciple, Charger-S, Phalanx, Raptor, Viper-S, Widow Uncommon: Cyclone, Halberd, Sandstorm, Sweeper, Carnifex, Equalizer, Sidewinder, Indra, Vanquisher, Lanat, Hesh, Ruzad, Scattershot, Venom Rare: Ghost, Falcon, PAW, Revenant, Thokin, Eagle, Hornet, Scorpion, Talon, Ushior, Kishock, Isharay, Shadow, Valiant, Reegar, Crusader, Pirahna Ultra: Soned, Valkyrie, Hurricane, Rozerad, Black Widow, Dhan Unplaced: Inferno (I haven't used mine yet) I tried to avoid placing weapons that perform the same role together on the same tier. None of them are equal, so they should be ranked accordingly. Guns with a charge timer were automatically downgraded because of their low RoF. I think you need to try that Raptor again. Reminder: there's no hip fire penalty on that thing. Also, the Avenger S is better than the Halberd, Sandstorm, Sweeper and Ghost and for all intents and purposes the Charger S outperforms the Revenant. |
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Post by swjobson on Aug 2, 2017 23:52:57 GMT
I think you need to try that Raptor again. Reminder: there's no hip fire penalty on that thing. Also, the Avenger S is better than the Halberd, Sandstorm, Sweeper and Ghost and for all intents and purposes the Charger S outperforms the Revenant. Hipfire on anything is underwhelming because stray bullets are an effective damage downgrade. Avenger is bland. Moderate rof, accuracy, clip size, reserve ammo. Ghost is overall superior as an automatic weapon, plus its unique ADS feature. Comparing Avenger to semiautomatics or burst fire rifles is missing the point. The Charger is a pistol not an AR. It's inferior to the Equalizer. |
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Post by The Joe-Man on Aug 3, 2017 0:26:48 GMT
I think you need to try that Raptor again. Reminder: there's no hip fire penalty on that thing. Also, the Avenger S is better than the Halberd, Sandstorm, Sweeper and Ghost and for all intents and purposes the Charger S outperforms the Revenant. Hipfire on anything is underwhelming because stray bullets are an effective damage downgrade. Avenger is bland. Moderate rof, accuracy, clip size, reserve ammo. Ghost is overall superior as an automatic weapon, plus its unique ADS feature. Comparing Avenger to semiautomatics or burst fire rifles is missing the point. The Charger is a pistol not an AR. It's inferior to the Equalizer. Hipfire on the Raptor makes it about equal with other full auto ARs. The Avenger has a DPS of 691 vs 580 for the Ghost and doesn't take 2 seconds of fire before it's accurate enough to hit headshots. The Charger is inferior to the Equalizer but better than many of the golds you listed. The fact that it isn't an AR is irrelevant. |
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Post by swjobson on Aug 3, 2017 1:39:54 GMT
Hipfire on the Raptor makes it about equal with other full auto ARs. The Avenger has a DPS of 691 vs 580 for the Ghost and doesn't take 2 seconds of fire before it's accurate enough to hit headshots. The Charger is inferior to the Equalizer but better than many of the golds you listed. The fact that it isn't an AR is irrelevant. If you think a sniper rifle's hipfire makes it worth using, then good for you. I'll prefer to rate weapons for their categorical function. Theoretical DPS doesn't include interruptions for reload or reticle bloom. Like the sniper rifle, my rating for Avenger is based on overall performance for its intended purpose, not just marginal use. Charger being the worst auto pistol is what makes it Common tier. If you've been paying attention to the development of weapons in Mass Effect games you'd know that the pistol category has always had the best guns overall. Comparing different categories is meaningless. If you don't like it then make your own list \_(:/)_/ |
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Post by Kenny Bania on Aug 3, 2017 5:24:21 GMT
I don't think they were meant to be good. I think they were a fix for the weapon challenges not tracking, disguised as new weapons. And actually the Predator S is pretty sexy if you have an auto-fire controller or mouse. I'm 100% convinced that's what they were. |
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Post by N7Mith on Aug 3, 2017 9:37:21 GMT
I think you need to try that Raptor again. Reminder: there's no hip fire penalty on that thing. Also, the Avenger S is better than the Halberd, Sandstorm, Sweeper and Ghost and for all intents and purposes the Charger S outperforms the Revenant. Hipfire on anything is underwhelming because stray bullets are an effective damage downgrade. Avenger is bland. Moderate rof, accuracy, clip size, reserve ammo. Ghost is overall superior as an automatic weapon, plus its unique ADS feature. Comparing Avenger to semiautomatics or burst fire rifles is missing the point. The Charger is a pistol not an AR. It's inferior to the Equalizer. It's not inferior by a lot. And it makes up for it with the full range. And ghost should not be in the same sentence with superior. |
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Post by swjobson on Aug 3, 2017 17:39:08 GMT
It's not inferior by a lot. And it makes up for it with the full range. And ghost should not be in the same sentence with superior. Equalizer has >20% better damage and >25% better accuracy than the Charger. It has 8% less RoF but that doesn't close the gap in damage output. I don't like the Equalizer but if you're using SMGs (especially the charger...) for mid to long range shooting you're just being silly. Ghost is superior to Avenger. Deal with it. |
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Post by JulianVerse on Aug 3, 2017 17:46:31 GMT
You can't make a list encompassing all the guns and then complain when people say there are certain pistols that are better than certain ARs and thus question your rankings.
Either put the pistols that are better than shitty ARs above the shitty ARs or break up your list.
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Post by swjobson on Aug 4, 2017 4:21:41 GMT
You can't make a list encompassing all the guns and then complain when people say there are certain pistols that are better than certain ARs and thus question your rankings. Either put the pistols that are better than shitty ARs above the shitty ARs or break up your list. ARs have always been the worst category in the franchise, and pistols have been the best. If you don't like that then you're free to continue pretending that there are no categories, I guess. I won't. Or, like I told the other kid: make your own list. I'm not sure why you think that telling me what to do is going to change my mind, but it's not working. :/ |
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Post by JulianVerse on Aug 4, 2017 4:23:38 GMT
Because your methodology is fucking dumb.
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Post by swjobson on Aug 4, 2017 4:30:19 GMT
Because your methodology is fucking dumb. I'm not sure what question you think you're answering, because I didn't ask one. But you did just confirm that you're a kid, so there's that. I didn't bother reading the forum rules but I doubt acting like a petulant tween is acceptable behavior. 🤔 |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 4, 2017 13:03:52 GMT
I didn't bother reading the forum rules but I doubt acting like a petulant tween is acceptable behavior. WRONG!  Acting like petulant teens is ALL WE DO around here. P.S. Welcome to BSN. |
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Post by JulianVerse on Aug 4, 2017 14:42:14 GMT
Because your methodology is fucking dumb. I'm not sure what question you think you're answering, because I didn't ask one. But you did just confirm that you're a kid, so there's that. I didn't bother reading the forum rules but I doubt acting like a petulant tween is acceptable behavior. 🤔 If you don't like having someone tell you that your methodology is fucking dumb, don't use methodology that's fucking dumb. And if you can't handle an f bomb every once in a while, go back to kindergarten and play with the other 5 year olds. |
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Post by swjobson on Aug 4, 2017 15:20:17 GMT
WRONG! Acting like petulant teens is ALL WE DO around here. P.S. Welcome to BSN. I should have figured. The most active people on internet forums are mountain dew guzzeling kids, there's no reason for this place to be any different. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 4, 2017 15:42:58 GMT
Wow, a guy on the Internet complaining about the Internet being toxic? Never seen that before.
We are not all literally kids here -- a lot of us are in our 30s, 40s, 50s -- but we ARE all a bunch of sarcastic assholes just like everywhere else on the 'net has been since the 1990s.
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Post by JulianVerse on Aug 4, 2017 15:44:27 GMT
WRONG! Acting like petulant teens is ALL WE DO around here. P.S. Welcome to BSN. I should have figured. The most active people on internet forums are mountain dew guzzeling kids, there's no reason for this place to be any different. Bro, first off, cheerwine is significantly superior to mountain dew. If you're going to go into the mentally challenged realm of only using ad hominem stereotypes to try to bolster your argument, at least be a little more creative. Second, you got offended because someone else challenged your list and started namecalling waaaaaaaaaaay before I ever said "fuck." You've acted like an indignant 4 year old since the first post in this thread and now you've got the balls to whine about how forums are full of kids? Lol, turn your computer off, broheim. |
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Post by JulianVerse on Aug 4, 2017 15:58:06 GMT
[/quote] I think you need to try that Raptor again. Reminder: there's no hip fire penalty on that thing. Also, the Avenger S is better than the Halberd, Sandstorm, Sweeper and Ghost and for all intents and purposes the Charger S outperforms the Revenant. Hipfire on anything is underwhelming because stray bullets are an effective damage downgrade. Avenger is bland. Moderate rof, accuracy, clip size, reserve ammo. Ghost is overall superior as an automatic weapon, plus its unique ADS feature. Comparing Avenger to semiautomatics or burst fire rifles is missing the point. The Charger is a pistol not an AR. It's inferior to the Equalizer. I mean, really, let's not forget this post, where someone claims (completely correctly) about the avenger S being better than the halberd, sandstorm, and sweeper (I haven't used the ghost yet) and you just say that they are "missing the point," which makes no sense because your "point" was supposedly to rank guns by tiers. Then they say (also correctly) that the charger S outperforms the revenant (because it's a shit gun), and you... completely ignore that and just say that the charger isn't an AR and is inferior to the equalizer. Thanks captain obvious? That still doesn't address the fact that the charger S is better than the revenant or why you put a dumpster fire AR in rare and a decent SMG in common. tl;dr: your methodology is fucking dumb, and you're a petulant 4 year old that can't be bothered to make arguments above a 1st grade level. |
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Post by swjobson on Aug 4, 2017 17:38:14 GMT
It's like you showed up in this thread just to prove me right. JFC
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Post by JulianVerse on Aug 4, 2017 18:42:05 GMT
It's like you showed up in this thread just to prove me right. JFC I'm not really sure how I'm proving you right, unless your point is that this forum is filled with YOU, a whiny, petulant 4 year old who guzzles mountain dew. Again, let's recap: You started a pretentious thread. There were a couple of completely innocuous replies, then you put out a (bad) list of weapons. Someone very respectfully disagrees with some of your placements. You make a post completely ignoring almost all of what they posted, instead cherry picking only one thing as well as posting a statement that isn't even relevant. You also say that comparing guns that aren't the same type is "missing the point" even though that was what you did two posts prior.He makes a respectful posts using a couple numbers. You make a snarky, handwaving argument that basically serves no purpose other than to belittle the guy that disagrees with you. In this post you also, once again, state that pistols as a class are better than other guns (something literally no one ITT has disagreed with) but that also comparing guns of different types is stupid, even though you were the one to do it in the first place.Fast forward a couple of posts, I say that if you're going to make a list of tiers of guns, you can't whine and bitch about people then being like "hey why is this pistol not above this AR, it's blatantly better." You really can't whine and bitch when you are then going to immediately agree that pistols are, on average, better than ARs (again, something no one ITT has argued against). At the end of the day, if you're making a ranking based on what things should be based on their effectiveness, you have to put more effective guns higher than less effective guns or else, *gasp* separate your list into a list by type of gun before you start ranking them by effectiveness. Instead, you were like "I'm gonna throw shit places and completely ignore the (admittedly arbitrary) guidelines I set up in the first place! Hooray!" Then you called me a "petulant tween" (spoiler: I'm not) because I called your methodology "fucking dumb" (spoiler: it is). News flash, your arguments make no sense, and you started calling people names and being a whiny little bitch WAAAAAAAAAAY before anyone else did, so maybe stop throwing tungsten boulders in your paper-thin glass house, bitch. |
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