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Post by Tilarta on Sept 9, 2017 1:11:37 GMT
It was recently announced that Dark Matter was cancelled before the plotline was completed. The reason given was that because SyFy didn't own the creator rights, they were getting less residuals (money!) and decided to pull it to favor the show that they owned completely. Since season 3 thread ended on a cliffhanger, here are some petition links to support the completion of the story arc. To give some context, the show had been running for three seasons, with one main arc and a few subplots. All of which will be left unresolved if the show isn't renewed! We want Dark Matter Season 4.Renew Dark Matter
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Post by mattig89ch on Sept 15, 2017 11:41:53 GMT
Signed both. Love the show, and really want to see it completed. Maybe even renewed for 2-3 seasons. But the minimum is just having the plot completed
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 22:56:38 GMT
Newp. I like Killjoys but Dark Matter didn't grab me. I was happy with the way that went down.
Also happy that Sense8 is at least getting a wrap up finale. Now there was a true travesty of a cancellation.
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Post by Tilarta on Sept 16, 2017 11:09:19 GMT
The best we can hope for is that the plot gets completed. I'd prefer more seasons, at least one to tie up all the threads. I'm not a fan of direct2movie sequels attempting this, because compressing an entire season or more worth of plot threads into a movie makes it too rushed. Like rapid fire plot points.
Under most circumstances, fanbase rivalries don't have any rational reason as to why they fight. But unfortunately in this case, Dark Matter fans have a very good reason to be displeased with Killjoys. The reason cited by SyFy for cancelling Dark Matter is they didn't own the franchise directly, so they weren't getting 100% of the profits, as a percentage of it had to go to the original license holder. But they were getting all of Killjoys' profit, so that's why it got chosen to stay in production, because of greed. From my perspective, if Killjoys had never existed, then Dark Matter would have stayed in production.
I wasn't that interested in Killjoys, Dark Matter was the one I like best.
On a personal level, this caused me to cease to be interested in any new sci-fi shows, because this isn't an isolated occurrence. Most of the sci-fi shows I watched were cancelled before the plotlines were complete. So to prevent myself getting invested in a storyline that doesn't get it's ending, I will only watch a show if I know for certain it got to finish properly. Which means the show has to run for 4-5 seasons/years minimum in order to prove they finished the story.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 16, 2017 14:21:53 GMT
Newp. I like Killjoys but Dark Matter didn't grab me. I was happy with the way that went down. Also happy that Sense8 is at least getting a wrap up finale. Now there was a true travesty of a cancellation. I enjoyed the first season of Dark Matter. But it just seemed to lose steam afterwards.
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Post by CHRrOME on Sept 17, 2017 1:29:56 GMT
Hm, that's kinda sad. I saw the first season last year I think, it was a bit hard to pick for me, but eventually I ended up liking some of the humor and the characters, and the ending of S1 was super cliff hanger. However I get super turned down when a series gets canceled, to a point that I don't wanna watch any other episode.
Doubt a petition is gonna change anything.
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Post by Sah291 on Sept 17, 2017 13:05:10 GMT
This is disappointing, loved this show, was just looking forward to season 3 coming to Netflix this month too. Such a shame. Haven't seen Killjoys, but this is hardly the first show I liked SyFy decided to ax prematurely over the years, so I'm always a bit wary with them to begin with.
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Post by Tilarta on Sept 19, 2017 2:30:22 GMT
Trust me, the S3 cliffhanger was so big, there will be a lot of enimity generated if they don't resolve that storyline!
I don't know if the petition will change anything, but I still think we have to try, to at least let the corporation know there are people out there who cared enough about Dark Matter to make this statement. I do know of one case where a petition extended a show beyond it's 3 year plan, but that was during the 90s and in Australia, so it might not be a precedent for Dark Matter.
It is a possibility that Netflix will renew the contract if SyFy doesn't. But the director was clear on the fact that there is a time window concern. If the hiatus goes on for too long, the cast and production crew will find jobs elsewhere and they won't be available to work on the show. Also, the sets will have to be dismantled, they can't keep them in the production space if the show isn't being produced.
I am starting to wonder about SyFy. I assume their name means Sci-Fi, but I don't think they have any commitment to that genre anymore. I am unfamiliar with how many shows they have cancelled, but if they've done a few of them, that's going to leave a bad public impression. To be harsh, I hope they eventually close down because of their bad decisions.
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Post by Sah291 on Sept 19, 2017 12:32:11 GMT
Trust me, the S3 cliffhanger was so big, there will be a lot of enimity generated if they don't resolve that storyline! I don't know if the petition will change anything, but I still think we have to try, to at least let the corporation know there are people out there who cared enough about Dark Matter to make this statement. I do know of one case where a petition extended a show beyond it's 3 year plan, but that was during the 90s and in Australia, so it might not be a precedent for Dark Matter. It is a possibility that Netflix will renew the contract if SyFy doesn't. But the director was clear on the fact that there is a time window concern. If the hiatus goes on for too long, the cast and production crew will find jobs elsewhere and they won't be available to work on the show. Also, the sets will have to be dismantled, they can't keep them in the production space if the show isn't being produced. I am starting to wonder about SyFy. I assume their name means Sci-Fi, but I don't think they have any commitment to that genre anymore. I am unfamiliar with how many shows they have cancelled, but if they've done a few of them, that's going to leave a bad public impression. To be harsh, I hope they eventually close down because of their bad decisions. Yeah, they used to just be called The Sci-fi Channel years ago, and rebranded to SyFy right around the time they were starting to drop a lot of their scifi programming and expand out into reality tv, etc. I did participate in an old fashioned letter writing campaign for a cancelled show on there once. It did work, we got a tv movie to wrap up the series. But that was years ago, before Twitter and social media hash tags were a thing, and before the days of streaming on Netflix, Hulu...I'd say there is a better chance now, even if still a long shot. Anyway. Recently, with Dark matter and some of their other shows, it was looking like SyFy was finally getting back to their roots with good sci-fi programming...but this kind of leaves a bad taste, and reminds me why I stopped following them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 12:36:32 GMT
I like both shows, Killjoys and Dark Matter, so I am happy to hear at least one of them has a chance to continue. I was worried they'd cancel both. Haven't seen Seadon 3, will wait till it's on Crave TV next summer. I understand that they said they will release an epilogue of sorts to explain how the story concludes. I am sorry to say, I don't think the petition going to change much.
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Post by Tilarta on Sept 19, 2017 15:51:18 GMT
To be impartial, it's still possible that Killjoys will also be canceled. I am thinking it would generate too much fan hostility if they ended both of these shows at once, so they're going to wait until the public awareness of Dark Matter fades away, then remove Killjoys as well. In order to avoid having two fanbases enraged at them simultaneously. I did do a comparative study to work out how much of SyFy channel is still sci-fi and the results came back with 40% of content. I didn't know they were doing reality tv though, although someone mentioned they had a wrestling show. Can't make sense of that inclusion, how is sports fictional? I am wondering now, were they just doing a limited production of sci-fi shows in order to maintain the public impression they are still a sci-fi channel? As in, they make a few shows they deem expendable, then go back to whatever they doing before. If the above speculation is true, then I'm going to have even more reason to avoid this channel, as stated before, I can't take even more shows where the plot just stops because of cancellation. And if this is what SyFy is choosing to do, give us a taste of something sweet and then take it away before we finish the meal, then I'll be avoiding any show they make, just to avoid any kind of disappointment like I experienced many times previously. By the way, this already resulted in me having a negative response. I just changed ISPs and part of the deal they offered was a paid sub to an internet tv bundle of my choice. Since Dark Matter belonged to SyFy and the cancellation hadn't been announced at that time, I chose the bundle that included SyFy. Three days later, the announcement of Dark Matter's cancellation was made and I instantly decided to change to another paid sub that didn't include SyFy in retaliation. Yes, I am aware that just one individual denying them income doesn't make a difference, but if other subscribers make the same decision, it might have impact later on down the line. I wonder if the loss of dedicated fans can be compensated with by viewers who aren't as committed or whether the gradual loss of viewers over time will cause the company to suffer, both in online publicity/reputation and profits.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:11:22 GMT
Well, we do not subscribe, we just activate Crave Tv for the summer while our kid is away on vacations, and catch up on the seasons. It's cheaper and easier. Maybe it will eventually end up on Netflix, it will be so much more convenient.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 19, 2017 16:12:23 GMT
Trust me, the S3 cliffhanger was so big, there will be a lot of enimity generated if they don't resolve that storyline! I don't know if the petition will change anything, but I still think we have to try, to at least let the corporation know there are people out there who cared enough about Dark Matter to make this statement. I do know of one case where a petition extended a show beyond it's 3 year plan, but that was during the 90s and in Australia, so it might not be a precedent for Dark Matter. It is a possibility that Netflix will renew the contract if SyFy doesn't. But the director was clear on the fact that there is a time window concern. If the hiatus goes on for too long, the cast and production crew will find jobs elsewhere and they won't be available to work on the show. Also, the sets will have to be dismantled, they can't keep them in the production space if the show isn't being produced. I am starting to wonder about SyFy. I assume their name means Sci-Fi, but I don't think they have any commitment to that genre anymore. I am unfamiliar with how many shows they have cancelled, but if they've done a few of them, that's going to leave a bad public impression. To be harsh, I hope they eventually close down because of their bad decisions. Yeah, they used to just be called The Sci-fi Channel years ago, and rebranded to SyFy right around the time they were starting to drop a lot of their scifi programming and expand out into reality tv, etc. I did participate in an old fashioned letter writing campaign for a cancelled show on there once. It did work, we got a tv movie to wrap up the series. But that was years ago, before Twitter and social media hash tags were a thing, and before the days of streaming on Netflix, Hulu...I'd say there is a better chance now, even if still a long shot. Anyway. Recently, with Dark matter and some of their other shows, it was looking like SyFy was finally getting back to their roots with good sci-fi programming...but this is kind of leaves a bad taste, and reminds me why I stopped following them. The only show I watch on Syfy anymore is 12 Monkeys. And they ran the last season in a long marathon rather than a weekly show (good thing I recorded it or I'd have completely missed that), so I don't know what they're thinking anymore.
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Post by Sah291 on Sept 19, 2017 17:31:35 GMT
Tilarta , yep Syfy got into reality tv, back around the time when a lot of sci-fi shows were getting cancelled on major networks. So it wasn't just them. This was back around the time when Fox had cancelled Firefly, and other shows like Star Trek Enterprise followed. Reality Tv was booming and sci-fi was in decline pretty much everywhere... fans kept being told, sci-fi shows are just too expensive to produce, compared to other genres. So SyFy cut back their sci-fi programming, and picked up cheaper reality programs...they used to run a lot of paranormal type series about ghost hunting, and that sort of thing, monster movies, reruns of licensed older shows, etc. A few years ago, though, there seemed to be a push to rebrand their image again and get sci-fi back into their programming. Scifi/fantasy shows were popular again. But, who knows...maybe they are struggling to turn a profit now with so much other competition. My guess is yeah they will fall back on the same type of stuff they have been running for years, to fill out their programming, with maybe a few original shows here or there. They do have a track record of cancelling a lot of shows...but that is scfi in general as a genre...like I said, networks consider them to be more risky and expensive.
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Post by Tilarta on Sept 19, 2017 20:57:48 GMT
I saw something similar on the local free2air channels here a while ago. Star Trek Deep Space Nine+Voyager, Stargate SG1 and Farscape were being randomly shifted around in the schedule and were eventually removed before all the episodes were aired. When a show goes from being shown at 9:30pm to 11:00pm or midnight, you know they don't want it anymore. At this time, reality tv was taking off, so there was a push to make as much real life stuff as possible. The one I remember is whatever show I was attempting to watch was deleted from the schedule because a football panel talkback show was always running 1-1.5 hours over schedule. I thought that wasn't allowed, if a show was exceeding their allocated time, there was a 5 minute warning, a 1 minute warning, then they turn the cameras off and run the credits. This was a realtime live2air show, so it wasn't prerecorded. I am thinking it's all about greed now, they want to make profits and because sci-fi isn't where the money is, they're just going to follow whatever trend is the one that generates the most income. Sah291, when you say fall back, do you mean they'll go back to no sci-fi and/or fictional based shows? Or just cut out the sci-fi? I don't know what their programming schedule was like, before, after or currently. To be honest, if the shows are deemed to be too expensive, why start making them in the first place? Surely it would save the money if they didn't start production and just spent the money on something that was guaranteed to turn a profit? Of course, there are no gaurantees there either. If you have 10 shows and they're variations on the same theme/concept, only the best and second best will succeed, all the others probably wouldn't. Which is why I think SyFy funding these shows is a token gesture, a public statement to use to deflect complaints that they don't want to be what they were. But to be fair, it's not just SyFy who does this, there's a whole page on Tvtropes documenting this. LiveActionTv, with a whole section dedicated to SyFy. So maybe it's just a general indication of workplace trends, nobody wants to go into serious fiction anymore.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 19, 2017 21:28:31 GMT
the channel was renamed from sci-fi to sy-fy when Simon Cowel bought it off fox, some years back...
I liked both killjoys and dark matter originally, I haven't watched the last season of either (yet) although I do have both recorded and I might get round to watching them, but like many other shows recently there too hip and happening and keep breaking their established law (like in dark matter where the prescient bird gets killed and somehow never saw it coming) or where the suddenly new bad guy appears out of thin air with tech that doesn't exist or the android that somehow gets upgraded with an undetectable mod that the police detect within seconds of coming into contact with it ....
at least in killjoys they seem to stick to a single story thread and not make something cannon and then break it for convenience sake one or two episodes later and think folks wont notice ....
as for sy-fy and its program lists its common sense that they will prefer to pick the shows that give them bigger profits, dark matter never gave them good profits because (much like firefly back in the day) they messed with the scheduling to make a case for canning it so folks never knew what time or day of the week the next episode would be aired at, really there was some other reason to can that show probably that some vp disliked someone on the show so they created the reason to get rid of it....(although in fireflys case, joss wheadon always provides excuses to get sacked)
and yes it would be good if amazon or Netflix picked up the show, but they wont unless sy-fy agree to give them the air time rights and old armpit trousers wont do that if the doesn't get a big upfront wedge and a slice of the pie going forwards as well for them....
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Post by Sah291 on Sept 19, 2017 21:51:16 GMT
Tilarta, I'm not sure honestly. That's the reason I was surprised by this news to cancel Dark Matter, because as recently as this summer I was seeing articles about their plans to rebrand and go back to their roots...that their earlier attempts to rebrand had been intended to broaden their audience, but caused them to end up missing the boat when genre television really started to make a comeback on television. Series like The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones really changed perception of how profitable fantasy/horror and genre shows could be. Looking at their programming now, they seem to be going for a mixture of story driven shows, scifi, and some horror and comic inspired stuff. They've always had their filler and movies they fall back on, to fill out the schedule, but who knows.
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Post by Tilarta on Sept 20, 2017 14:20:47 GMT
With Nyx, she does state that if there is information she isn't aware of, it can mess with her predictive algorithms. Keep in mind she's not seeing the future, just predicting probability scenarios based on available data. In this case, what she didn't know was that the dagger blade was poisonous. I assume the Invader storyline was always going to happen, that they'd been preparing for it during the previous three years. When we first meet Rook's boss, he is 24 years of age and he's aging unnaturally, then he asks Rook if "you want to be next". Why this is so isn't understood at first, then it is revealed that the invaders cause a human body to entropize over time and he is one of the invaders. I assume he'd been jumping from host to host as their bodies died. The nanite enhancements Two has were intended to counteract the entropic effect of being controlled by an invader and she was the first prototype. Well, as SyFy only seems to care about money now, I assume if Netflix paid them enough, they'd give Dark Matter up without argument. Why bother keeping the rights to a show that you don't intend to keep producing? There's at least some profit in selling it and none at all from keeping it. Sah291 The comparative assessment I made ran something like this: 50% fantasy, 10% superhuman comics, 40% sci-fi. I'm not certain if they started with those ratios or if they changed to that over time. Someone said that Dark Matter is going to be replaced with a fantasy show, although I didn't confirm that. Which made me wonder if the rebranding you referenced is an indication they're shifting away from sci-fi and into fantasy. If they started with a different focus, then this might be an indication they are changing creative direction.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2017 23:52:34 GMT
To be impartial, it's still possible that Killjoys will also be canceled. It was. In a surprising move however, they gave it two more seasons to wrap up. I rather like what Lovretta had to say on it.
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Post by Tilarta on Sept 21, 2017 21:54:08 GMT
Good news for Killjoys fans. However, I am wondering if that decision was spin control, to mitigate the backlash from Dark Matter fans. So SyFy can say, we were going to cancel Killjoys, but we didn't, so we still support this genre. With the intention of distracting the fanbase/consumers from acknowledging the fact that they still cancelled a series without finishing it. Or maybe they intended to cancel both at the same time, but they couldn't.
In any case, the damage is still done, all anyone will remember is that SyFy keeps ending shows without having the commitment to finish the storylines.
I am wondering though, are there consumers who aren't fans? I keep seeing the opinion that there are certain viewers who aren't invested in what they watch, that it's the genre that draws them in, not interest in the show. When one franchise is shut down, they just move to the replacement show without comment and expect everyone else to do the same.
If the above supposition is correct, then I think this would lead to an unsettling trend, that SyFy will use that to their advantage and just keep mass producing shows to cancel them as soon as their usefulness has been expended. Wouldn't that be more costly in the long run? That it requires completely new sets to be fabricated for each show instead of just using the sets that were made for the cancelled show?
Also, that wouldn't be fair to the production crew/director, who believes they are being hired to make a complete series and doesn't know they won't get to finish. That could cause industry backlash too, if the directors figure this out, then they'll stop offering their concepts to SyFy and seek out companies who will pay to finish their shows. Which would result in SyFy having less content as less shows are optioned to them.
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Post by turianlannister on Sept 21, 2017 21:57:47 GMT
Trust me, the S3 cliffhanger was so big, there will be a lot of enimity generated if they don't resolve that storyline! I don't know if the petition will change anything, but I still think we have to try, to at least let the corporation know there are people out there who cared enough about Dark Matter to make this statement. I do know of one case where a petition extended a show beyond it's 3 year plan, but that was during the 90s and in Australia, so it might not be a precedent for Dark Matter. It is a possibility that Netflix will renew the contract if SyFy doesn't. But the director was clear on the fact that there is a time window concern. If the hiatus goes on for too long, the cast and production crew will find jobs elsewhere and they won't be available to work on the show. Also, the sets will have to be dismantled, they can't keep them in the production space if the show isn't being produced. I am starting to wonder about SyFy. I assume their name means Sci-Fi, but I don't think they have any commitment to that genre anymore. I am unfamiliar with how many shows they have cancelled, but if they've done a few of them, that's going to leave a bad public impression. To be harsh, I hope they eventually close down because of their bad decisions. Yeah, they used to just be called The Sci-fi Channel years ago, and rebranded to SyFy right around the time they were starting to drop a lot of their scifi programming and expand out into reality tv, etc. I did participate in an old fashioned letter writing campaign for a cancelled show on there once. It did work, we got a tv movie to wrap up the series. But that was years ago, before Twitter and social media hash tags were a thing, and before the days of streaming on Netflix, Hulu...I'd say there is a better chance now, even if still a long shot. Anyway. Recently, with Dark matter and some of their other shows, it was looking like SyFy was finally getting back to their roots with good sci-fi programming...but this kind of leaves a bad taste, and reminds me why I stopped following them. Funnily enough, like Killjoys, that particular show was renewed for season 4 and 5 at the same time, I was surprised SciFi renewed them for two seasons because of that. The Farscape mini series was terrible compared to the show IMO, they basically shoved what was supposed to be the first half of season 5 into a 3 1/2hr mini series
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Sah291
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Post by Sah291 on Sept 21, 2017 23:18:09 GMT
Yeah, they used to just be called The Sci-fi Channel years ago, and rebranded to SyFy right around the time they were starting to drop a lot of their scifi programming and expand out into reality tv, etc. I did participate in an old fashioned letter writing campaign for a cancelled show on there once. It did work, we got a tv movie to wrap up the series. But that was years ago, before Twitter and social media hash tags were a thing, and before the days of streaming on Netflix, Hulu...I'd say there is a better chance now, even if still a long shot. Anyway. Recently, with Dark matter and some of their other shows, it was looking like SyFy was finally getting back to their roots with good sci-fi programming...but this kind of leaves a bad taste, and reminds me why I stopped following them. Funnily enough, like Killjoys, that particular show was renewed for season 4 and 5 at the same time, I was surprised SciFi renewed them for two seasons because of that. The Farscape mini series was terrible compared to the show IMO, they basically shoved what was supposed to be the first half of season 5 into a 3 1/2hr mini series Trying to cram an entire seasons worth of story arc into a couple hour mini series has got to be tough to do, for a result that would likely turn out very hit or miss... it's been a long time since I saw the Farscape mini series, I remember at least getting a sense of closure from it, but yeah definitely not as good as the show, or what a full season would have been. Funnily enough I got into Dark Matter because it reminded me of Farscape, and Firefly. This is definitely not the sort of nostalgia I had in mind, lol.
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Post by Tilarta on Sept 25, 2017 8:07:30 GMT
That's the impression I got from the Stargate Ark of Truth direct2DVD movie, that they were having to compress an entire season's worth of plot into one movie. And by doing so, a lot of material from the full season was omitted for the sake of meeting the onscreen time limit. But to be fair, we can't be choosy now. If we get an ending to a story that wasn't going to get an ending at all, then we'll have to take it. Sah291Yeah, that does sound uncannily similar, to visit the same fate on all shows that are vaguely plot similar. I wonder if that means we'll see shows in the future and instantly think "well, that's doomed" BEFORE IT RELEASES.
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