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Post by fchopin on Oct 25, 2017 21:55:22 GMT
Just watched the latest episode and it was terrible, two out of ten for the story and they should hire a new writer.
Discovery obviously has nothing to do with the original Star Trek so this is like in a different multi universe like the new Star Trek movies.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 26, 2017 0:08:39 GMT
As far as sci-fi goes, it's not bad, if a little too action-y (Star Trek has had this as a problem to some level since Voyager, for the most part.)
The issue is that, as I said, it's not trying to be Star Trek beyond a handful of references. We know it is, but it seems to want to be something else.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 26, 2017 0:13:40 GMT
So far as critics goes, the one I really follow is Jammer's Reviews. The guy who does them is a Trekkie, born and bred, and he knows his Trek lore as well as a good narrative ad story. I don't always agree with him, but I always respect his point of view (and have for the better part of 3 years since I discovered his site.) He's been running strong for well over 20 years now. He's straightforward and to-the-point, he doesn't really engage in theatrics or the kind of satire that a few critics resort too. His humor and writing style really reminds me of Roger Ebert, and that's one reason I really enjoy reading his take on any given episode. He has reviews for every episode of Star Trek thus released, all the movies, as well as reviews for other shows/movies in the SciFi sphere. About Jammer's Site.
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Post by Transcended One on Oct 26, 2017 3:35:01 GMT
As far as sci-fi goes, it's not bad, if a little too action-y (Star Trek has had this as a problem to some level since Voyager, for the most part.). At least it doesn't have cheesy fistfights, like in the Original Series, or huge computers with annoying monotonous voices which can be talked to death (yet).
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 26, 2017 4:33:32 GMT
As far as sci-fi goes, it's not bad, if a little too action-y (Star Trek has had this as a problem to some level since Voyager, for the most part.). At least it doesn't have cheesy fistfights, like in the Original Series, or huge computers with annoying monotonous voices which can be talked to death (yet). I miss the fistfights... I miss the palm-punches... The Riker and Picard Maneuvers... Discovery has one element that is missing, and that's the camp. Star Trek always had an element of camp to it, and it's depressing that DIS has to exist in a world where camp is frowned upon. I don't want it to be balls to the wall of course, but camp is just something that is inherent to the premise of Trek.
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Post by Transcended One on Oct 26, 2017 7:24:54 GMT
At least it doesn't have cheesy fistfights, like in the Original Series, or huge computers with annoying monotonous voices which can be talked to death (yet). I miss the fistfights... I miss the palm-punches... The Riker and Picard Maneuvers... Discovery has one element that is missing, and that's the camp. Star Trek always had an element of camp to it, and it's depressing that DIS has to exist in a world where camp is frowned upon. I don't want it to be balls to the wall of course, but camp is just something that is inherent to the premise of Trek. It's inherent to sixties-television, and I've always found it one of the weak moments of Original Trek. Thankfully it's much less included in TNG, and the mêlee -combat there has at least somewhat better choreography.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 26, 2017 15:01:26 GMT
The problem is with the concept. Now don't get me wrong good storytelling is good storytelling and I will like something based on the merits of its storytelling. But...well honestly this Trek just might be running into the same problem that Moffat had writing 'Day of the Doctor.' They can't imagine the Federation, especially of the late twenty fourth early twenty fifth century being this...morally dubious. Yeah, that's one of the issues I had with the presentation of the War Doctor in that episode. He was presented as far too sympathetic and his actions understandable/justifiable for later Doctor's to have disowned that entire incarnation and tried to keep his existence secret from everyone. The War Doctor needed to be "The Oncoming Storm", "Destroyer of Worlds" and "The Predator" incarnate, the version of the Doctor who makes the morally ambiguous actions the Doctor's done that we've seen look relatively tame by comparison. Maybe the John Hurt we see in the episode has done these things and that's why he's finally had enough and is saying "No More", but destroying Gallifrey and committing double-genocide to end the Time War was not enough to make him a monster in the eyes of his later selves (especially when they keep mentioning it). Personally I'd have had the Doctor actually not even aware that the John Hurt incarnation even existed, having erased that incarnation from his own memory out of sheer guilt for the atrocities he committed during the Time War. So it's not the Doctor playing with semantics and ignoring a whole person between Eight and Nine as not the Doctor, but actually believing (like the fans) that Eight was the one who regenerated into Nine. I know that some people might have felt uncomfortable with the idea of the Doctor being a villain for that incarnation, but that could have allowed him to have some degree of redemption or reconciliation with his later incarnations in "Day of the Doctor". This would also serve to demonstrate that the threat of the Doctor becoming the Valeyard is a very real possibility and that he has the capacity for great evil. Similarly having the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors realise that the War Doctor wasn't devoid of some measure of good and was capable of redemption, would provide later context for why the Twelfth Doctor would be so determined to try to redeem the Master. (Apologies for going vastly off topic here into another fandom) If Discovery wanted to embrace the morally dubious nature of certain aspects of the Federation, then Section 31 would have been perfect to base the series around. Having the Discovery be revealed to actually be under their auspices would have been a great wham moment for the audience, allowing us to explore more the nature of their organisation and how they've been secretly pulling the strings behind events in the 23rd Century. This is another reason why setting Discovery in the Kelvin-verse makes more sense. Starfleet in the Kelvin timeline is portrayed as more advanced and militaristic (based on retro-engineered tech from scans of the Narada and the "What the hell is that?!" fear it brought), which definitely fits far more with the tech levels and attitude we've seen in Discovery. The Klingons were also said to have seized the Narada after the Kelvin's kamikaze run, thus explaining why the Discovery Klingons could have cloaks (based on studying Romulan tech and their database), as well as be more bold and aggressive because they've got future-tech in their back pocket. Also from Into Darkness, we know that Section 31 was heavily active during this period. They were working with Admiral Marcus to create the Vengeance, as well as having found and unthawed Khan with the intention of using him as a weapon against the Klingons. If the Federation had already been (briefly) at war with the Klingons within the last decade and saw how dangerous their enemy was, it makes sense why they'd want someone as equally brilliant and ruthless on their side. I thought it was OOC for Lorko to go after Michael's daddy. Lorca is only doing what's in the best interest for him. He wants Burnham on his ship (for some reason). Burnham has psychic connection to Sarek after he saved her from death. Burnham experiences intense pain when Sarek is nearly assassinated because of this connection. Thus it's reasonable to assume that should Sarek die, Burnham might also die. If Lorca does not want Burnham to die, then he must save Sarek. That's the last thing you'd want running a starship, and it's an egregious break from the context of Star Trek, even as far as Discovery has gone. I concur... normally in Star Trek, these people tend to be Admirals. Is it any wonder why the first thing Starfleet did with Janeway once she got home was bump her to Vice Admiral and stick her behind a desk? So far as critics goes, the one I really follow is Jammer's Reviews. The guy who does them is a Trekkie, born and bred, and he knows his Trek lore as well as a good narrative ad story. I don't always agree with him, but I always respect his point of view (and have for the better part of 3 years since I discovered his site.) He's been running strong for well over 20 years now. He's straightforward and to-the-point, he doesn't really engage in theatrics or the kind of satire that a few critics resort too. His humor and writing style really reminds me of Roger Ebert, and that's one reason I really enjoy reading his take on any given episode. He has reviews for every episode of Star Trek thus released, all the movies, as well as reviews for other shows/movies in the SciFi sphere. About Jammer's Site.Jammers, Lorerunner and SFDebris are my three favourite Trek reviewers. (Jammers for his straightforward reviews, Lorerunner for his in-depth analysis and SFDebris for his great satirical commentary) At least it doesn't have cheesy fistfights, like in the Original Series, or huge computers with annoying monotonous voices which can be talked to death (yet). I miss the fistfights... I miss the palm-punches... The Riker and Picard Maneuvers... Discovery has one element that is missing, and that's the camp. Star Trek always had an element of camp to it, and it's depressing that DIS has to exist in a world where camp is frowned upon. I don't want it to be balls to the wall of course, but camp is just something that is inherent to the premise of Trek. I miss the Trek-fu and the show occasionally embracing it's own camp/silliness of past series. Actually you could have had a lot of fun with those silly "Disco" shirts in the latest episodes. Have the shirts instead read "Very Disco" and open the episode with the following conversation as the two of them are jogging; Burnham: * Annoyed* How could Starfleet have allowed this. Tilly: It's not that bad. Burnham: Mistakes like these are unacceptable. Tilly: Accidents happen. Burnham: Not like this. How does someone not notice they misprinted a entire ship's supply of shirts? Burnham: They'd have to program that misprint into the synthesiser! Tilly: Yeah... what could have been so distracting? It's not like we are at war or anything... Burnham: That's no excuse. This is embarrassing. Tilly: C'mon, you're telling me you never wanted to be "very disco" growing up? Burnham: *Glares*Tilly: No, I guess not... forget I said anything. Tilly: *Quietly* Well I still think they're fun.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 26, 2017 20:12:09 GMT
The problem is with the concept. Now don't get me wrong good storytelling is good storytelling and I will like something based on the merits of its storytelling. But...well honestly this Trek just might be running into the same problem that Moffat had writing 'Day of the Doctor.' They can't imagine the Federation, especially of the late twenty fourth early twenty fifth century being this...morally dubious. Yeah, that's one of the issues I had with the presentation of the War Doctor in that episode. He was presented as far too sympathetic and his actions understandable/justifiable for later Doctor's to have disowned that entire incarnation and tried to keep his existence secret from everyone. The War Doctor needed to be "The Oncoming Storm", "Destroyer of Worlds" and "The Predator" incarnate, the version of the Doctor who makes the morally ambiguous actions the Doctor's done that we've seen look relatively tame by comparison. Maybe the John Hurt we see in the episode has done these things and that's why he's finally had enough and is saying "No More", but destroying Gallifrey and committing double-genocide to end the Time War was not enough to make him a monster in the eyes of his later selves (especially when they keep mentioning it). Personally I'd have had the Doctor actually not even aware that the John Hurt incarnation even existed, having erased that incarnation from his own memory out of sheer guilt for the atrocities he committed during the Time War. So it's not the Doctor playing with semantics and ignoring a whole person between Eight and Nine as not the Doctor, but actually believing (like the fans) that Eight was the one who regenerated into Nine. I know that some people might have felt uncomfortable with the idea of the Doctor being a villain for that incarnation, but that could have allowed him to have some degree of redemption or reconciliation with his later incarnations in "Day of the Doctor". This would also serve to demonstrate that the threat of the Doctor becoming the Valeyard is a very real possibility and that he has the capacity for great evil. Similarly having the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors realise that the War Doctor wasn't devoid of some measure of good and was capable of redemption, would provide later context for why the Twelfth Doctor would be so determined to try to redeem the Master. (Apologies for going vastly off topic here into another fandom) If Discovery wanted to embrace the morally dubious nature of certain aspects of the Federation, then Section 31 would have been perfect to base the series around. Having the Discovery be revealed to actually be under their auspices would have been a great wham moment for the audience, allowing us to explore more the nature of their organisation and how they've been secretly pulling the strings behind events in the 23rd Century. This is another reason why setting Discovery in the Kelvin-verse makes more sense. Starfleet in the Kelvin timeline is portrayed as more advanced and militaristic (based on retro-engineered tech from scans of the Narada and the "What the hell is that?!" fear it brought), which definitely fits far more with the tech levels and attitude we've seen in Discovery. The Klingons were also said to have seized the Narada after the Kelvin's kamikaze run, thus explaining why the Discovery Klingons could have cloaks (based on studying Romulan tech and their database), as well as be more bold and aggressive because they've got future-tech in their back pocket. Also from Into Darkness, we know that Section 31 was heavily active during this period. They were working with Admiral Marcus to create the Vengeance, as well as having found and unthawed Khan with the intention of using him as a weapon against the Klingons. If the Federation had already been (briefly) at war with the Klingons within the last decade and saw how dangerous their enemy was, it makes sense why they'd want someone as equally brilliant and ruthless on their side. I thought it was OOC for Lorko to go after Michael's daddy. Lorca is only doing what's in the best interest for him. He wants Burnham on his ship (for some reason). Burnham has psychic connection to Sarek after he saved her from death. Burnham experiences intense pain when Sarek is nearly assassinated because of this connection. Thus it's reasonable to assume that should Sarek die, Burnham might also die. If Lorca does not want Burnham to die, then he must save Sarek. That's the last thing you'd want running a starship, and it's an egregious break from the context of Star Trek, even as far as Discovery has gone. I concur... normally in Star Trek, these people tend to be Admirals. Is it any wonder why the first thing Starfleet did with Janeway once she got home was bump her to Vice Admiral and stick her behind a desk? So far as critics goes, the one I really follow is Jammer's Reviews. The guy who does them is a Trekkie, born and bred, and he knows his Trek lore as well as a good narrative ad story. I don't always agree with him, but I always respect his point of view (and have for the better part of 3 years since I discovered his site.) He's been running strong for well over 20 years now. He's straightforward and to-the-point, he doesn't really engage in theatrics or the kind of satire that a few critics resort too. His humor and writing style really reminds me of Roger Ebert, and that's one reason I really enjoy reading his take on any given episode. He has reviews for every episode of Star Trek thus released, all the movies, as well as reviews for other shows/movies in the SciFi sphere. About Jammer's Site.Jammers, Lorerunner and SFDebris are my three favourite Trek reviewers. (Jammers for his straightforward reviews, Lorerunner for his in-depth analysis and SFDebris for his great satirical commentary) I miss the fistfights... I miss the palm-punches... The Riker and Picard Maneuvers... Discovery has one element that is missing, and that's the camp. Star Trek always had an element of camp to it, and it's depressing that DIS has to exist in a world where camp is frowned upon. I don't want it to be balls to the wall of course, but camp is just something that is inherent to the premise of Trek. I miss the Trek-fu and the show occasionally embracing it's own camp/silliness of past series. Actually you could have had a lot of fun with those silly "Disco" shirts in the latest episodes. Have the shirts instead read "Very Disco" and open the episode with the following conversation as the two of them are jogging; Burnham: * Annoyed* How could Starfleet have allowed this. Tilly: It's not that bad. Burnham: Mistakes like these are unacceptable. Tilly: Accidents happen. Burnham: Not like this. How does someone not notice they misprinted a entire ship's supply of shirts? Burnham: They'd have to program that misprint into the synthesiser! Tilly: Yeah... what could have been so distracting? It's not like we are at war or anything... Burnham: That's no excuse. This is embarrassing. Tilly: C'mon, you're telling me you never wanted to be "very disco" growing up? Burnham: *Glares*Tilly: No, I guess not... forget I said anything. Tilly: *Quietly* Well I still think they're fun. the Klingons don't have cloaks. Only the sarcophagus ship does. Has lorerunner done anything on discovery?
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Post by Sifr on Oct 27, 2017 1:28:27 GMT
Yeah, I know the sarcophagus ship has been confirmed as the only ship with a cloak. I meant that they might as well have given them all cloaks, since the writers have been ignoring in-universe technology levels across the board?
It's also been bothering me why they haven't explained why the Sarcophagus ship has a cloak if it's meant to be over a hundred years old and an old jalopy that T'kuvma built from the ground up? Did T'kuvma get the cloak from the Romulans? Because based on Voq's reaction later, it seems like their cult consider the use of alien tech blasphemous or anathema?
Would be cool if they revealed the unique tech and design of the ship is because it was actually a salvaged Hur'q vessel, making it far older than T'kuvma believed. Would provide some fun irony that a cult that desires to "Remain Klingon" are flying around in a ship belonging to an alien race that pillaged Q'onoS centuries before.
What if it turned out these Klingons are actually the "Dalish" of the Trek universe, unwittingly aping traditions and behaviour of people who aren't what they thought they were? That's why this cult venerates the dead, rather than consider the body an empty shell, because they're mistaking Hur'q beliefs for Klingon traditions that have been forgotten?
(It's probably not going to be the case, but would be a nice continuity nod)
Lorerunner hasn't done anything on Discovery as far as I'm aware? Not sure what he's going to cover next, as he's only just finished reviewing B5. He has talked in his Voyager reviews about doing TNG at some point in the future.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Oct 29, 2017 16:21:54 GMT
The real, and very old, MCI commercial this comes from is worth a watch if you loved these old farts...
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Post by Sifr on Oct 29, 2017 19:26:58 GMT
Pictured: Actual reactions from fans upon hearing "Discovery is set in the Prime Timeline".(I may need to save that gif for later, it might get a lot of mileage)
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Post by colfoley on Oct 29, 2017 21:35:04 GMT
Its actually a billion times worse if it were set in the Mirror universe as the current theory holds. It might make SOME sense to be set in the Kelvin Timeline, but not that much.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 29, 2017 22:10:17 GMT
I like the theory that the show isn't set in the Prime Timeline... at least, not at the moment.
Maybe Spore Drive doesn't ultimately pan out because they realise that each time they use it, they end up in a different universe? They've been lucky so far to end up in ones "close enough" that the changes haven't been noticeable, but they'll eventually screw up and realise the truth when they end up somewhere overtly "not in Kansas anymore" like the Mirror Universe.
Maybe S1 of Discovery could end with the characters now trapped in the Prime timeline?
Sort of taking what happened to Worf in "Parallels", where he ended jumping between various realities (linking this event to the spores would be interesting), but if he'd never actually gotten home again at the end of that episode?
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Post by colfoley on Oct 29, 2017 22:16:55 GMT
I like the theory that the show isn't set in the Prime Timeline... at least, not at the moment. Maybe Spore Drive doesn't ultimately pan out because they realise that each time they use it, they end up in a different universe? They've been lucky so far to end up in ones "close enough" that the changes haven't been noticeable, but they'll eventually screw up and realise the truth when they end up somewhere overtly "not in Kansas anymore" like the Mirror Universe. Maybe S1 of Discovery could end with the characters now trapped in the Prime timeline? Sort of taking what happened to Worf in "Parallels", where he ended jumping between various realities (linking this event to the spores would be interesting), but if he'd never actually gotten home again at the end of that episode? That is an interesting theory but I doubt it. There are other issues with the S-Drive. Issues which may be further expanded upon tonight. And I highly doubt it will continue to be used into season 2, but, I think we are just going to have to get used to the fact that this is set in the prime time line, whether we like it or not.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 29, 2017 22:37:10 GMT
Indeed.
I imagine (and hope) whatever knowledge gleaned from the Spore Drive may be sealed and kept hidden away, possibly as a failure considering the negative implications that are bound to come up at some point while using it. Otherwise, it just creates plot complications that I don't suspect much of the writing staff has an ability to overcome.
On the subject of writers, how do people here feel about accepting scripts written by non-writers as TNG once did? Is it a cool idea, or a poor one given the unionization of writers?
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Post by Sifr on Oct 30, 2017 1:57:32 GMT
That is an interesting theory but I doubt it. There are other issues with the S-Drive. Issues which may be further expanded upon tonight. And I highly doubt it will continue to be used into season 2, but, I think we are just going to have to get used to the fact that this is set in the prime time line, whether we like it or not. Yeah, I admit it's less a theory than more wishful thinking on my part. My belief though has always been that if you write yourself into a corner by doing a prequel, you might as well acknowledge continuity issues are going to arise and you should endeavour to make that part of the plot. Enterprise could easily have done this with the Temporal Cold War for instance, to justify various discrepancies about why various races like the Xindi or Denobulans never appeared in later Trek series. The Denobulans not being one of the founding four of the Federation seems even weirder in retrospect, since they were the only race other than Vulcans to be relatively tight with Earth at the start of the series. The finale could have had the NX-01 crew perform a noble sacrifice that erased themselves from history, but ended the Temporal Cold War and ensured the Federation came into being. That history at large might have forgotten their existence, but those monitoring history, along with we as the audience remembered them and what they had done. That's why I sorta loved the Kelvin timeline from a world-building perspective. Having the Narada and Spock go back in time and change everything was a great way to establish this new continuity while linking it to the old one, especially because the Kelvin timeline couldn't exist without Nero or Spock's actions in the 24th Century. That's why something like embracing the notion of parallel timelines and the Spore Drive actually being a "Reality Drive" would eliminate a ton of continuity issues and discrepancies from the show that fans have issues with. After all the show loves to explore alternate realities and "What if?" scenarios and playing with the nature of time. Such as Sisko being lost in subspace ("The Visitor"), the Defiant crew met their descendants ("Children of Time"), the Federation was losing a war with the Klingons ("Yesterday's Enterprise"), Worf being married to Deanna (Parallels), the Borg had assimilated Earth ("Parallels" and "Star Trek: First Contact"), Voyager being under constant attack from the Krenim ("Year of Hell"), getting buried under the ice ("Timeless"), if Harry never joined the crew ("Non Sequitur") or taking 23 years more years to get home ("Endgame"). Were any of those realities less valid because they either never happened or were reset at the end of the episode? These still contained the same characters that we watched every week, even if their experiences or personal histories didn't occur or were significantly altered. I dunno, with how much Star Trek has played with time travel and alternate realities/timelines, doing something like this could easily solve the various discrepancies and be relatively easy to weave into the narrative. That we have a drive that can hop between various points in space (and into the Mirror Universe possibly), means it's totally in the cards for them to go this route if they wanted? On the subject of writers, how do people here feel about accepting scripts written by non-writers as TNG once did? Is it a cool idea, or a poor one given the unionization of writers? I'd love to see them take spec scripts again. Many great episodes began life as a spec scripts/successful pitches from outside the writing pool. Many people who later went onto majorly influence Trek (for good and bad) also got noticed and began this way. Ronald D. Moore for instance first got noticed after submitting a script for the episode that became Season 3's "The Bonding". He was later invited back to write a second script, hired as a script editor and eventually rose to become a producer by the final season of the show. Weird to think about, but we'd probably not have Battlestar Galactica if RDM hadn't met one of Roddenberry's assistants during a set tour, who happened to be decent enough to help him find an agent that could submit his script through the right channels.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 30, 2017 4:42:02 GMT
Indeed. I imagine (and hope) whatever knowledge gleaned from the Spore Drive may be sealed and kept hidden away, possibly as a failure considering the negative implications that are bound to come up at some point while using it. Otherwise, it just creates plot complications that I don't suspect much of the writing staff has an ability to overcome. On the subject of writers, how do people here feel about accepting scripts written by non-writers as TNG once did? Is it a cool idea, or a poor one given the unionization of writers? They already are, at least in some ways, imo. Take the S-Drive for instance: 1. The Spore Drive already has its own complications. It has already brought one creature to the brink of death (the tardigrade) and has at least been heavily implied to be causing complications for Lt. Stamets. 2. The Spore Drive is relatively unique. The first avatar/ 'pilot' was a creature we have never heard of before or since, and was heavily heavily implied to be unique. Lt. Stamets also, so far, is the only being in the universe to have that DNA incorporated into his person. Which is a convinient way to segue into... 3. The genetic experiments that Stamets performed on himself are illegal. This is even still a problem for Federation citizens up till the 24th century (Dr. Julien Bashir). And especially if this research is still causing Stamets pain and may kill him the Federation likely will lock away the research. So to summarize two options. 1. The Discovery will be a one of a kind starship that will either be desttoryed or decomissioned. Or. 2. The research will prove unviable for long term use and Warp Drive will be the safer of the two options. I don't have any problem with the idea in theory. But since TNG was the worse Star Trek (again IMO), and since this could be a reason why, I really do not think it would be a good idea. Especially for Disc.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 30, 2017 17:18:12 GMT
Same Sifr, I think many of the better scripts from TNG came from the ideas submitted from various sources, and it was one way in which they increased longevity in the show. When the practice was cut around Season 7, you could tell the normal writing staff was running out of steam.
Personally, I think a lot of fan works are quite good, even more so than what many professional writers could come up with. Not every fan-writer is a superfan of course, but fans tend to be the ones most devoted to something, enough so that they'll account for the canon almost perfectly while also being a nigh boundless source of ideas and passion.
Man, now that I think about it, I wish more shows were written by fans.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 30, 2017 18:21:37 GMT
New Question: What are some of the ideas for a prospective new Star Trek show? Where would it be, what would it do, etc. What aspects would you want to focus on, themes, ideas, etc. Would it have connections to prior series (more than just the tangential ties that link all the shows together?) Would it bring back past characters for a few parts? A series, a special, a movie? Would you reference events from STO or the books, or would it be something totally separate? Would it be Prime Timeline, or a new timeline?
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Post by Iakus on Oct 30, 2017 18:58:58 GMT
New Question: What are some of the ideas for a prospective new Star Trek show? Where would it be, what would it do, etc. What aspects would you want to focus on, themes, ideas, etc. Would it have connections to prior series (more than just the tangential ties that link all the shows together?) Would it bring back past characters for a few parts? A series, a special, a movie? Would you reference events from STO or the books, or would it be something totally separate? Would it be Prime Timeline, or a new timeline? I'd like to see something along the lines of what TOS was: Long-term deep space exploration on the fringes of explored space. With only occasional returns to Federation space. Minimal references to past characters or series.
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Post by Transcended One on Oct 30, 2017 19:06:40 GMT
Not an answer to your question, Mr. Hype, since although I consider myself a fan, I'm obviously not a superfan since I don't mind Discovery being too "modern" compared to TOS. I don't mind the new Klingon looks, and I don't thinks either The Wrath of Khan or The Voyage Home were the best Trek-movies, and I LOVED Nemesis, AND Star Trek Into Darkness. I don't think Spocks Brain was the absolute worst TOS episode (that honor goes to either Miri or The Alternative Factor IMHO. And I think long hair looks better on Nicole de Boer (then again I'm a sucker for long-haired brunettes). Oh and I think Wesley Crusher wasn't even THAT bad since season 2, but I guess that awful S1 episode with those half-naked Edo-assholes did most of the damage already (Can't ruuhhuuun??? Ofcourse we can run!!! Right commaeenderrr???) And I never have any good ideas Well: Episode 7 - really enjoyable, nice Cause and Effect remix . Probably the most "Trek"-like of all the episodes so far. Even the ending had old-fashioned campyness... Oh and long red curly curls But hiphop is STILL going strong in the 23rd century??? I mean, COME ON!
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 30, 2017 21:26:38 GMT
Not an answer to your question, Mr. Hype, since although I consider myself a fan, I'm obviously not a superfan since I don't mind Discovery being too "modern" compared to TOS. I don't mind the new Klingon looks, and I don't thinks either The Wrath of Khan or The Voyage Home were the best Trek-movies, and I LOVED Nemesis, AND Star Trek Into Darkness. I don't think Spocks Brain was the absolute worst TOS episode (that honor goes to either Miri or The Alternative Factor IMHO. And I think long hair looks better on Nicole de Boer (then again I'm a sucker for long-haired brunettes). Oh and I think Wesley Crusher wasn't even THAT bad since season 2, but I guess that awful S1 episode with those half-naked Edo-assholes did most of the damage already (Can't ruuhhuuun??? Ofcourse we can run!!! Right commaeenderrr???) And I never have any good ideas Well: Episode 7 - really enjoyable, nice Cause and Effect remix . Probably the most "Trek"-like of all the episodes so far. Even the ending had old-fashioned campyness... Oh and long red curly curls But hiphop is STILL going strong in the 23rd century??? I mean, COME ON! I wouldn't say that enjoying the 'modern' touch of DIS disqualifies you from being a superfan. Not catching the reference to Troi's maternal homeworld on the other hand in Episode 7... The new Klingon looks are just plain unnecessary in my opinion; I feel it seriously 'otherizes' the Klingons in an attempt to make them more alien. It's hard to look at them as Klingons. I don't dislike the newer movies, but I hold them separately and judge them separately from the Prime Trek movies - it's something totally different, and so long as I don't put them next to the 10 Prime movies, I'm fine. I like Star Trek VI, an often left out movie, albeit a great send-off of the original cast (that Generations basically moots.) So far as the TNG movies go, Star Trek VII (First Contact) is easily the best. If you couldn't tell, I have a pretty sizable crush on Nicole de Boer, and Dax (both of them, with Ezri just edging out Jadzia) is in my top 10 of favorite characters. I do wish that Ezri had slightly longer hair, and that leads me to answering my own question: I would love to have a follow-up for Ezri, seeing what Dax is up to and what she's doing. In that vein, I think a Captain Dax show would be great, which is a great shout-out to the books (without being beholden to some of the less malleable crap in them), and showing how Ezri would have changed/grown as a character over the years.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 30, 2017 21:45:43 GMT
So my thoughts on Last Nights Discovery...which had another great title that is hard to pronounce and sounds really cool. And deep. And stuff. Last night's episode has been, for me, the most divisive episode of the season so far. On the one hand I really, really, loved it. On the other hand there was one element of it which nearly ruined the whole thing and almost took me out of the experience. So what I liked: As Discovery's first 'problem of the week' episode it was actually really solid. Also as its first problem of the week episode, unlike in Trek shows of the past, it followed along in the lines of shows like TWD, Farscape, and B5, when they had a problem of the week episode they still had lore, character, and story building in the episode to connect to future plotlines. So did Discovery last night. It was even telegraphed the episode before that this would be a problem of the week episode. Its something I really hope Discovery does. Also unlike in previous Trek episodes, whose problem of the week episodes were laden with techno babble and low stakes for the characters, this one was all about the characters and continued to build on their journey's. It had a neat final solution which was hardly typical. What I disliked: Starfleet does raves? I know I have commented on this before but its...unimmersive as hell given previous Trek shows. Out of all the 'lore breaks' this is the only one that really is bothering me. As for that other issue: OK so as far as I understand the premise of the episode having a time loop every 30 minutes. This was a specific timeline which hits us over the head again and again and again.
Two problems with this:
It strains the realm of probability that Mudd, or the other characters, could do what they did in thirty minutes.
Secondly, the timeline of the episode falls apart because each timeline ended up being very different. I know they probably skipped things in order to avoid it getting repetitve, BUT Lorca called for Tyler and Burnham to go to the bridge, except that didn't really happen. In one of the loops they specifically stayed in the rave, danced, and partied. And strategized sure but it would be hard to believe that would take 30 minutes. And then, finally, for the last loop they were able to come up with this massive plan and tell everyone, convincing everyone of the truth, implement that plan, and do it all before Mudd could implement his plan. ....What?!
I mean I know scale is something that a lot of writers don't get right but it does get annoying because they could have changed a couple of lines around and it would have still worked. Anyways a couple of videos for your consideration.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 30, 2017 23:08:08 GMT
I don't really see a problem with raves. I mean, Jadzia Dax had a Polynesian Firedancer, a bunch of fights which Odo showed up for and then promptly ignored to have 'the talk' with Kira, punched out her future-clan-mother-in-law for her bachelorette party, and got pretty hammered.
The rave was positively tame in comparison.
I wonder if Risa has been discovered yet in DIS...
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Post by colfoley on Oct 30, 2017 23:14:53 GMT
I don't really see a problem with raves. I mean, Jadzia Dax had a Polynesian Firedancer, a bunch of fights which Odo showed up for and then promptly ignored to have 'the talk' with Kira, punched out her future-clan-mother-in-law for her bachelorette party, and got pretty hammered. The rave was positively tame in comparison. I wonder if Risa has been discovered yet in DIS... Holy crap you're right. I hate it when I do that.
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