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Post by phoray on Feb 7, 2018 15:24:00 GMT
I never understood the whole Star Trek vs Star Wars thing. It's like comparing Bill and Ted to Doctor Who because they both involve time travel and phone boxes... I thought it had more to do with the wide audience both appeal to. I can actually bring up either series at work and people know what I'm talking about (at least, name recognition). So not only can you encounter people in the general world that know about both, they may even dare to have a preference. Rivalries can be fun too, as sports seems to attest to quite strongly. I'm not sure actual comparisons are made in any seriousness. The only comparison I make points to why one holds my interest: The political kill kill action series Star Wars (my impression of it) or the explorative contemplative ethical savorings of Star Trek (with occasional action). It's why I'm struggling with Discovery. Exploration? eh. Contemplative? Burnham just hates on herself. Ethical Savorings? So far, no savoring. Just brief qunadries. Action? so much action. @_@ PS I've only watched up to Epi 10
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 7, 2018 15:56:37 GMT
I never understood the whole Star Trek vs Star Wars thing. It's like comparing Bill and Ted to Doctor Who because they both involve time travel and phone boxes... I thought it had more to do with the wide audience both appeal to. I can actually bring up either series at work and people know what I'm talking about (at least, name recognition). So not only can you encounter people in the general world that know about both, they may even dare to have a preference. Rivalries can be fun too, as sports seems to attest to quite strongly. I'm not sure actual comparisons are made in any seriousness. The only comparison I make points to why one holds my interest: The political kill kill action series Star Wars (my impression of it) or the explorative contemplative ethical savorings of Star Trek (with occasional action). It's why I'm struggling with Discovery. Exploration? eh. Contemplative? Burnham just hates on herself. Ethical Savorings? So far, no savoring. Just brief qunadries. Action? so much action. @_@ PS I've only watched up to Epi 10 That's my point. There's little to connect the two. I like both but not for the same reasons. It's like if there was a rivalry between people who like cheese and people who like chocolate. Some people like both or neither, but the reasons for liking them barely overlap beyond the fact that both are food. I think Discovery is about what happens when the idealism of The Federation comes up against the brutal realities of war. I can see why some might not like it compared to TOS and TNG in particular, because it doesn't paint such an optimistic picture, but it still has little to do with Star Wars, which is basically a good vs evil fantasy in space.
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Post by phoray on Feb 7, 2018 16:00:44 GMT
The Federation comes up against the brutal realities of war. I We didn't get enough of that with... DS9? (wasn't the last 4 seasons about war?) Enterprise was nothing BUT war? (I certainly recall little that wasn't) I didn't watch TOS but I thought that involved the Klingon War a lot.
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 7, 2018 16:03:58 GMT
Best fight music ever? And I want one of those Vulcan weapons.
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 7, 2018 16:24:45 GMT
The Federation comes up against the brutal realities of war. I We didn't get enough of that with... DS9? (wasn't the last 4 seasons about war?) Enterprise was nothing BUT war? (I certainly recall little that wasn't) I didn't watch TOS but I thought that involved the Klingon War a lot. Well Discovery is also in the modern style of an extended character-focused story, which again isn't to everyone's taste but is different from most preceding Trek with the possible exception of parts of DS9...
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Post by mousestalker on Feb 7, 2018 19:58:12 GMT
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 7, 2018 20:06:23 GMT
I prefer Tranya.
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Post by phoray on Feb 8, 2018 0:38:20 GMT
I finished epi 11 just now. I was fist pumping when Ash whiny-limp-dick Tyler was spaced. I prefer bland Voq, son of none, to him, to be honest.
Now it looks like Lorca is coming on to Burnham, imo, so explains his mixed signals toward her this whole time because I'm sadly spoiled on the fact that
(Spoiler for later episodes) Lorca IS Mirror Lorca and so this whole time since learning that- I've thought that he was in love with Mirror Burnham and so having a hard time of it being non lovers in the nice universe Anyway, my point is, him being killed makes up (almost) for Dr. Culber. Other annoyance what the hell, not even been two hours and the damn empress shoots across the fucking universe to blow up a rebel base? really? I just can't imagine that an empress would care that much. but whatever, DRAMA *flips it off* I hope the next episode is where I finally get the concrete spoiler I've been spoiled about so I can stop keepign screts with husband. I didn't want to be spoiled! darn click bait article! That's literally the only thing I shouldn' tknow at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 3:32:35 GMT
I confess I am a newcomer to Trek, so far I've seen most of the first season of TOS, the motion picture and the first two seasons of TNG but so far it shits all over SW. And you still have most of the good stuff ahead of you too! And some crap, but you seemed to endure the first two season of TNG alright, so you'll be fine. Those two are generally regarded as two of the worst seasons of any Trek, along with TOS Season 3, Voyager for the first 2 seasons (hell, most of the show if we're being honest - Voyager had a lot of trouble with consistency, and I can't honestly say that it had any 'good' seasons beyond maybe S4. There were a lot of great episodes scattered throughout the series, but they were just too mixed in with all the bad,) Enterprise for seasons 1-3... Double kudos for sticking with the franchise after 'The Motion Picture.' That's one of the more... questionable films. Of course, I do wonder if you like some of the more esoteric qualities of the franchise. If that's the case, some of the more-action-y, dramatic entries into the series might be a turn-off. You guessed right, I do enjoy the esoteric fantasies and I was quite fond of the 60's inspired weirdness of the original series. I don't mind a bit of action and what not, just so long as there is some story to it. I admit that The Motion Picture was a bit of a slog, there were parts where the trip to intercept "Vger" was too long winded but I have seen worse movies. That ending was pretty warped. As for somebody else's question: "Why compare it to SW?" Same reason people compare DA to The Witcher I suppose. Those franchises differ immensely but share similar platforms and so forth. Plus I grew up with an older bro who thought the sun shines out of Wars' analogous rectum but maintained Trek was boring. I have only been able to watch Trek now because every series including the animated is on there.
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Post by luin on Feb 8, 2018 6:05:00 GMT
I like Star Wars and Star Trek, but I do prefer Trek on the whole. (When I was younger, I was a bigger fan of SW.)
Have there been any decent Trek games? I heard that some people did enjoy the recent Bridge Crew game.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 8, 2018 8:19:43 GMT
Thoughts on the latest. E14 Below↓ Firstly, Saru's statement "Well if the map is to be believed, it appears the Klingons have won the war "is hyperbole. The Federation has sustained significant losses but a third of it's fleet and 20% of it's territory occupied is not total failure. In episode 14 the loss of that base was a telling blow. It basically broke Admiral Cornwell. But total annihilation it is not; particularly if you pay attention to the statistics she's throwing around. Oddly though, I could accept Saru's hyperbole if it's driven by the notion he's, well, at times rather cowardly. Understandable given his species, the writers have had an interesting line on him between "afraid of being eaten by everything" and learning to become a good commanding officer. Anyways, just an observation not terribly relevant. *** No PU Lorca body... o'rly. *** Sarek, "I must return to Vulcan, there are evolving details to the plan that must be considered." Burnham, "What evolving details?" Sarek, "I'm just going to change the subject to something you're really touchy about so you gloss over my complete lack of an answer. Oh, but Georgiou is going to be a great surprise on the bridge later." Mighta paraphrased that last one a tad...*** I got a good kick out of the Klingons branding a space station. That was some funny shit. Nicely in tune with my notions of what "Klingon" means. (The show could use a touch more Honour in the Klingon ideology methinks.) I think you can chalk it up to just plain bad writing just to be dramatic. I can see it being justified by the Klingons were transmiting a false war map to the Federation to...I don't know demorialize them?
Anyways bad writing. There was the definite hint of honorable Klingons will need to rise in the future if things are to ever be the status quo. They did mention it, how they are fighting 24 different enemies with their own agendas. Then, the goal of the series should be to try and insert a Klingon government following the teachings of Kahless/ Tkumva who is honorable, unified, and predictable. Still hostile to the Federation but overall easier to deal with. WHAT. IN. THE. FUCK. I just watched episode 10. A nd the whiny crybaby jerk boyfriend KILLED my favorite love couple since Dax and Worf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I screamed at the screen! I considered turning it off altogether and just skip the whole series! I hate Mirror Universe episodes, I always skipped them in the other series. But unlike other Mirror Episodes in the past, nothing is going back to the way it was! Cuz they effin' killed that loving awesome gay doctor! That was OUR UNIVERSE DOCTOR! We can't get THAT one back! wfehiorefhi3wghiu[34whnuio[23hvwnuiovnhio3w4nio[bvniofvenw FRAGGLE FUCK And then the protaganist, someone I'm suppose to like, is fucking the double agent klingon whiny ass jerk at the end! ugh, talk about skin crawling- I mean, I wouldn't have liked watching that even BEFORE finding out what he really was. Because as much as Burnham kinda sucks, Tyler is STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR HER. colfoley Much like with romances in other shows either one of them didn't really know, Burnham certainly didn't know about Tyler's klingonism and anatomy. But, I actually feel very sorry with Tyler so *shrug* Onto ep 14: So Discover DOES know how to write a slow burn build up episode. As such it was a little burning but full of fun little character moments here and there which added a lot of depth to things. Definitley a build up/ bridge episode. First off I feel so sorry for Saru. The man has proven himself as a capable commanding officer. Bold, decisive, ambitious, sticking to his guns while at the same time willing to push boundaries to protect the people under his command. Only to be replaced by 'Georgiu' who is actually a big space racist who upon first seeing Saru went 'on your knees slave...we were just eating you a few hours ago' Also, the Emperor after being in our universe for just a couple of days and she is now in command of a Starship. Uhhh...yeah. It does make a fair bit of sense mind you but why don't I think that Burnham's decision could have some interesting side effects? While I do understand what Burnham is going through, I do feel sorry for Tyler. And kind of 'shame on her.' I do not know what I'd do...but they really covered the whole gambit of human emotions with Tyler. From Stamets obvious feelings, to the crew hanging out and trying to make Tyler feel welcome, to Burnham ultimatley rejecting him despite 'it will be hard to let you go.' I do feel for the man, and think its a shame that he will never fly for Starfleet again...though he is now in an interesting mirror situation as Burnham from the rest of the series. It occured to me watching this episode, speaking of Burnham, that Burnham really makes rash decisions whenever she considers something emotionally. This does make her a perfect mirror for Spock in a lot of ways because she is a human who is embracing her humanity, wheras Spock was half Vulcan who embraced the Vulcan. however, the dissonance between her logic and her emotion leads to a lot of really weird tragic scenarios...like with Georgiu. Cornwall's portryal was fairly perfect in this ep. When they jumped to Starbase 1...STARBASE 1...and found it branded by the Klingons you could feel the weight of the Federation on her as they had to flee...from Earth. A Federation Starship...had to flee...from Earth. And she played it really well. I don't know if I have mentioned this before, and while Discovery is a fairly well written prequel...it is still a prequel. We know how this ends, its been an interesting ride so far BUT at the end there is an issue. This show is playing off the moral struggle between right and wrong. We have seen this struggle similarily before and it all looks like it is coming to a head in the season finale. but we know how it ends. The arrogance and assertiveness of the 24th century will triumph eventualy. This is the world that Discovery is trying to build. It was really nice seeing more from Sarak. It was really nice getting a call back from Enterprise when Archer visited Kronos. Now as far as what I didn't like I have come to the conclusion the writers do not know what the hell they are doing with the spore drive. Now, keep in mind the Spore Drive is major tech that DOES NOT exisist in the future. Its an interesting idea, but one that cannot go far. They have written several issues with the technology, but each one of those issues have then been subsquently brushed aside. The tartigrade suffered from crippling side effects, make Stamets the navigator, Stamets goes crazy, Stamets is healthy, they have only enough fuel for one trip, oh wait they can magically create more with the 'original sample' via some suspuciously fast terraforming. Now again its clear that this tech will not exisist in the future, and its clear that these problems make the tech unviable long-term...but, it is annoying. It does make sense on one level, but then they techno babbled a solution. For DS9, I watched Progress: I liked the episode well enough, actually when I saw it in the list I was surprised it was a season 1 episode, thought it would have been 2 or 3. Again nothing special, this wasn't a GREAT episode (like the Storyteller wasn't a great episode) but it was the very first attempts to begin to flesh out some of these characters into something more, namely Kira, though Nog, Jake and even Bashir had some fun little moments here or there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 9:16:48 GMT
I like Star Wars and Star Trek, but I do prefer Trek on the whole. (When I was younger, I was a bigger fan of SW.) Have there been any decent Trek games? I heard that some people did enjoy the recent Bridge Crew game. And they took away the virtual reality requirement for us plebs!! I am interested in the game. I hear it has a SP campaign, but mostly geared toward co-op MP. Which would be cool, if I was social. Other than that I can only think of Star Trek Online. Played it for five minutes before getting bored. Not my mug of rum.
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Post by Lavochkin on Feb 8, 2018 11:15:04 GMT
I like Star Wars and Star Trek, but I do prefer Trek on the whole. (When I was younger, I was a bigger fan of SW.) Have there been any decent Trek games? I heard that some people did enjoy the recent Bridge Crew game. There was this FPS for the PC back in the early '00s. One interesting bit about it is that you can play as a male or female version of the protag. s19.postimg.org/lx40vgycj/Star_Trek_Voyager_Elite_Force.jpgThere was a sequel, but i never played it and they removed the female PC.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 8, 2018 11:26:38 GMT
And you still have most of the good stuff ahead of you too! And some crap, but you seemed to endure the first two season of TNG alright, so you'll be fine. Those two are generally regarded as two of the worst seasons of any Trek, along with TOS Season 3, Voyager for the first 2 seasons (hell, most of the show if we're being honest - Voyager had a lot of trouble with consistency, and I can't honestly say that it had any 'good' seasons beyond maybe S4. There were a lot of great episodes scattered throughout the series, but they were just too mixed in with all the bad,) Enterprise for seasons 1-3... Double kudos for sticking with the franchise after 'The Motion Picture.' That's one of the more... questionable films. Of course, I do wonder if you like some of the more esoteric qualities of the franchise. If that's the case, some of the more-action-y, dramatic entries into the series might be a turn-off. You guessed right, I do enjoy the esoteric fantasies and I was quite fond of the 60's inspired weirdness of the original series. I don't mind a bit of action and what not, just so long as there is some story to it. I admit that The Motion Picture was a bit of a slog, there were parts where the trip to intercept "Vger" was too long winded but I have seen worse movies. That ending was pretty warped. As for somebody else's question: "Why compare it to SW?" Same reason people compare DA to The Witcher I suppose. Those franchises differ immensely but share similar platforms and so forth. Plus I grew up with an older bro who thought the sun shines out of Wars' analogous rectum but maintained Trek was boring. I have only been able to watch Trek now because every series including the animated is on there. Yeah, the entries that you stated you've seen thus far have a lot of 'higher' concepts that can be hard to follow, particularly if they follow the strict Roddenberry way of diminishing or eliminating internal conflict. I figured that if you like the stuff shown thus far, then you probably have a greater appreciation for more esoteric material. I think it's pretty cool. Not to keep boring you with this stuff, but 'TMP' has had a fan re-cut that edits the film in a much better way, cutting out almost 10 minutes of useless, repetitive shots of things floating in space (and about 10 minutes of pointless scenes.) I don't know where to find it on the internet, but if you're ever interested, the guy who edited it did slim it down without cutting anything important or detracting from the concepts presented. Alternatively, there's the 20-minute re-cut with the Tron:Legacy soundtrack by Daft Punk. It's a lot better than it sounds. If you stick with Trek, my advice is to not let the technobabble kill the magic for you in the later series (TNG, DS9, and Voyager (oh god, Voyager...).) I can barely listen to it, it's so awful. On where? Netflix? CBS All-Access? They took the movies off of Netflix a while back unfortunately (though I am in the US, and you guys might still have stuff on Netflix that we don't have.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 18:11:10 GMT
There was the definite hint of honorable Klingons will need to rise in the future if things are to ever be the status quo. They did mention it, how they are fighting 24 different enemies with their own agendas. Then, the goal of the series should be to try and insert a Klingon government following the teachings of Kahless/ Tkumva who is honorable, unified, and predictable. Still hostile to the Federation but overall easier to deal with. I like that idea and explanation.
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Post by KrrKs on Feb 8, 2018 18:33:08 GMT
Have there been any decent Trek games? I heard that some people did enjoy the recent Bridge Crew game. Voy Eliteforce has already been mentioned. It capture the Voyager and Star Trek atmosphere really well, despite being a shooter. It also had an interesting story. Sadly I can't say the same about the sequel. There were a ton of mods for both, but i don't know how much of that survived the purging, reselling and closure of filefront. There are the Starfleet and Klingon Academy games (Tactical space combat). I never played those but they received universal praise. Legacy is in a somewhat similar vain, but I'd skip that. Imo it is neither gameplay nor story wise very good, and it hasn't aged well on top of that. (Not to say it was outdated when it came out.) BUT there are also tons of mods for these games (or at least there were, back in the day) There is a small game called "Star Trek:Away Team" for tactical round based ground combat. Kind of fun, but relatively short. Then there are Games like "Hidden Evil", "TNG:Unity"(?) which i never played (no Idea what they even are). "Star Trek:Borg" can be found on Youtube. I recommend a watch, but i wouldn't buy it. For Strategy there are the "Star Trek: Armada" parts one and two. Nothing that noteworthy in hindsight, though I absolutely loved A1. There is a 'standalone' Mod Fleet Operations for Armada 2. The project is in a sort of hiatus since a couple years, as the devs wait for another team to finish the engine they want to use for the next release. There is also a fan made "Star Trek Defence Lines" in alpha or so right now. It looks promising, but I haven't played it yet. Imho the best Star Trek game to date is "Bridge Commander" (not Crew, from 2002 or 04 or so). Story was pretty solid, the first few chapters actually really trek-episode like. Visually its garbage compared to current standarts. But there are many mods that fix that or introduce new mechanics, new ships, etc. Sadly most of these are not compatible with the campaign, though there is supposed to be a mod that rectifies that, it just hasn't been released yet (afaik). Due to the current state of the community (age old games, having own children, several server crashes, etc) the community is thinning out more and more. Edit: Forgot to mention the Starfleet Command series, I probably confused the Starflee Academy titel above with that one. And there is also "DS9:The Fallen". 3rd Personn shooter with the unique quirk that you can play the campaing as one of several member of the main cast, each offering (mildly) different levels and different tasks.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 18:53:41 GMT
On where? Netflix? CBS All-Access? They took the movies off of Netflix a while back unfortunately (though I am in the US, and you guys might still have stuff on Netflix that we don't have.) Since CBS is a national TV network, they sold the Discovery rights to Bell Media for Canada and Netflix for the rest of the world. Part of the deal was that Bell and Netflix acquired the rights to stream all previous Trek TV series, although possibly only outside the US as well. Thus it may be that you can watch them on Netflix anywhere but USA & Canada. Should be available on CBS All Access in the USA though.
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Post by phoray on Feb 8, 2018 19:04:21 GMT
not let the technobabble kill the magic for you are you sure? We could modify the deflector shield... or even recalibrate the dilithium crystals in a new super dangerous way that may destroy the ship! but it's our only chance!
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 8, 2018 19:14:34 GMT
not let the technobabble kill the magic for you are you sure? We could modify the deflector shield... or even recalibrate the dilithium crystals in a new super dangerous way that may destroy the ship! but it's our only chance! That's nothing. If you realign the quantum sensor conductor to match the tachyon frequency by the main deflector, you could possibly create a subspace pulse that would create a chronotic wave to break the time loop. All we'd have to do is eject the secondary core while shutting down the primary warp core - the resulting gravimetric distortion should bring us back to realspace. *Best read in B'elanna Torres voice*
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Post by phoray on Feb 8, 2018 19:15:28 GMT
If you realign the quantum sensor conductor to match the tachyon frequency by the main deflector, you could possibly create a subspace pulse that would create chronotic wave to break the time loop. All we'd have to do is eject the secondary core while shutting down the primary warp core - the resulting gravimetric distortion should bring us back to realspace. highfive man
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 8, 2018 19:24:30 GMT
Best fight music ever? And I want one of those Vulcan weapons. Ah, the Vulcan Lirpa. Such a tastefully brutal weapon, and quite simple. Reminds of a crab with a knife...
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Post by phoray on Feb 8, 2018 23:57:26 GMT
I watched Episode 12.
I bawled.
He's still dead.
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yourfunnyuncle
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yourfunnyuncle
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 8, 2018 23:58:12 GMT
are you sure? We could modify the deflector shield... or even recalibrate the dilithium crystals in a new super dangerous way that may destroy the ship! but it's our only chance! That's nothing. If you realign the quantum sensor conductor to match the tachyon frequency by the main deflector, you could possibly create a subspace pulse that would create chronotic wave to break the time loop. All we'd have to do is eject the secondary core while shutting down the primary warp core - the resulting gravimetric distortion should bring us back to realspace. *Best read in B'elanna Torres voice*Did you reverse the polarity of the neutron flow?
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 9, 2018 0:13:07 GMT
That's nothing. If you realign the quantum sensor conductor to match the tachyon frequency by the main deflector, you could possibly create a subspace pulse that would create chronotic wave to break the time loop. All we'd have to do is eject the secondary core while shutting down the primary warp core - the resulting gravimetric distortion should bring us back to realspace. *Best read in B'elanna Torres voice*Did you reverse the polarity of the neutron flow? Oops! Wrong franchise. Nope, it's about right. Trek had their 'reverse the polarity' line as well. I think it might have even been in reference to Doctor Who.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 0:31:53 GMT
You guessed right, I do enjoy the esoteric fantasies and I was quite fond of the 60's inspired weirdness of the original series. I don't mind a bit of action and what not, just so long as there is some story to it. I admit that The Motion Picture was a bit of a slog, there were parts where the trip to intercept "Vger" was too long winded but I have seen worse movies. That ending was pretty warped. As for somebody else's question: "Why compare it to SW?" Same reason people compare DA to The Witcher I suppose. Those franchises differ immensely but share similar platforms and so forth. Plus I grew up with an older bro who thought the sun shines out of Wars' analogous rectum but maintained Trek was boring. I have only been able to watch Trek now because every series including the animated is on there. Yeah, the entries that you stated you've seen thus far have a lot of 'higher' concepts that can be hard to follow, particularly if they follow the strict Roddenberry way of diminishing or eliminating internal conflict. I figured that if you like the stuff shown thus far, then you probably have a greater appreciation for more esoteric material. I think it's pretty cool. Not to keep boring you with this stuff, but 'TMP' has had a fan re-cut that edits the film in a much better way, cutting out almost 10 minutes of useless, repetitive shots of things floating in space (and about 10 minutes of pointless scenes.) I don't know where to find it on the internet, but if you're ever interested, the guy who edited it did slim it down without cutting anything important or detracting from the concepts presented. Alternatively, there's the 20-minute re-cut with the Tron:Legacy soundtrack by Daft Punk. It's a lot better than it sounds. If you stick with Trek, my advice is to not let the technobabble kill the magic for you in the later series (TNG, DS9, and Voyager (oh god, Voyager...).) I can barely listen to it, it's so awful. On where? Netflix? CBS All-Access? They took the movies off of Netflix a while back unfortunately (though I am in the US, and you guys might still have stuff on Netflix that we don't have.) I think once is enough, abridged or not. I stream from Australia. All the old Trek series and Discovery are on there. I will shit bricks if they take them down. The movies aren't there unfortunately, I bought the whole collection recently and intend to watch no matter how bad they might be.. though if popular opinion is correct, I have already seen the worst.
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