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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 0:32:43 GMT
are you sure? We could modify the deflector shield... or even recalibrate the dilithium crystals in a new super dangerous way that may destroy the ship! but it's our only chance! That's nothing. If you realign the quantum sensor conductor to match the tachyon frequency by the main deflector, you could possibly create a subspace pulse that would create a chronotic wave to break the time loop. All we'd have to do is eject the secondary core while shutting down the primary warp core - the resulting gravimetric distortion should bring us back to realspace. *Best read in B'elanna Torres voice*Reading in Data's voice.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 9, 2018 0:38:42 GMT
That's nothing. If you realign the quantum sensor conductor to match the tachyon frequency by the main deflector, you could possibly create a subspace pulse that would create a chronotic wave to break the time loop. All we'd have to do is eject the secondary core while shutting down the primary warp core - the resulting gravimetric distortion should bring us back to realspace. *Best read in B'elanna Torres voice*Reading in Data's voice. That works too. Alternatively, Geordi (it's so informative and enthusiastic,) or Jadzia Dax (rather monotone, but she has a deep enough voice for it to come off as confident.)
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 9, 2018 0:43:32 GMT
Yeah, the entries that you stated you've seen thus far have a lot of 'higher' concepts that can be hard to follow, particularly if they follow the strict Roddenberry way of diminishing or eliminating internal conflict. I figured that if you like the stuff shown thus far, then you probably have a greater appreciation for more esoteric material. I think it's pretty cool. Not to keep boring you with this stuff, but 'TMP' has had a fan re-cut that edits the film in a much better way, cutting out almost 10 minutes of useless, repetitive shots of things floating in space (and about 10 minutes of pointless scenes.) I don't know where to find it on the internet, but if you're ever interested, the guy who edited it did slim it down without cutting anything important or detracting from the concepts presented. Alternatively, there's the 20-minute re-cut with the Tron:Legacy soundtrack by Daft Punk. It's a lot better than it sounds. If you stick with Trek, my advice is to not let the technobabble kill the magic for you in the later series (TNG, DS9, and Voyager (oh god, Voyager...).) I can barely listen to it, it's so awful. On where? Netflix? CBS All-Access? They took the movies off of Netflix a while back unfortunately (though I am in the US, and you guys might still have stuff on Netflix that we don't have.) I think once is enough, abridged or not. I stream from Australia. All the old Trek series and Discovery are on there. I will shit bricks if they take them down. The movies aren't there unfortunately, I bought the whole collection recently and intend to watch no matter how bad they might be.. though if popular opinion is correct, I have already seen the worst. Ah, then I envy you for having Discovery on Netflix (and not having to pay for a separate service to watch it. ) One more great thing about Australia, I suppose! Nah, you haven't gotten to Star Trek V yet. Nothing (with the original cast) tops that pile of shit. It does have great cinematography though! And then there are the TNG-era movies (VII-X.) In general, they're not great - really, the only decent one is 'First Contact' (aka VIII.) 'Generations' is pretty bland, 'Insurrection' is underwhelming, and 'Nemesis' more or less killed the franchise until the movie reboot.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 9, 2018 1:49:29 GMT
I think once is enough, abridged or not. I stream from Australia. All the old Trek series and Discovery are on there. I will shit bricks if they take them down. The movies aren't there unfortunately, I bought the whole collection recently and intend to watch no matter how bad they might be.. though if popular opinion is correct, I have already seen the worst. Ah, then I envy you for having Discovery on Netflix (and not having to pay for a separate service to watch it. ) One more great thing about Australia, I suppose! Nah, you haven't gotten to Star Trek V yet. Nothing (with the original cast) tops that pile of shit. It does have great cinematography though! And then there are the TNG-era movies (VII-X.) In general, they're not great - really, the only decent one is 'First Contact' (aka VIII.) 'Generations' is pretty bland, 'Insurrection' is underwhelming, and 'Nemesis' more or less killed the franchise until the movie reboot. I consider the Motion Picture to be a worse movie then Star Trek 5.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 9, 2018 2:00:05 GMT
Ah, then I envy you for having Discovery on Netflix (and not having to pay for a separate service to watch it. ) One more great thing about Australia, I suppose! Nah, you haven't gotten to Star Trek V yet. Nothing (with the original cast) tops that pile of shit. It does have great cinematography though! And then there are the TNG-era movies (VII-X.) In general, they're not great - really, the only decent one is 'First Contact' (aka VIII.) 'Generations' is pretty bland, 'Insurrection' is underwhelming, and 'Nemesis' more or less killed the franchise until the movie reboot. I consider the Motion Picture to be a worse movie then Star Trek 5. You're in the deep minority there then. I mean, there's no accounting for taste, but, pfft - Shatner fighting 'God?' How self-absorbed could you get? TMP at it's core (wrapped in a mystery, behind an enigma, enshrouded by a riddle) raises some very intriguing, thought provoking questions - it's a bit on the high-minded side of things, but if that's what you're into (I am,) then it's redeemable if you can get past the utter slog of extended visual scenes of ships slowly moving in space, with characters staring agape for sometimes minutes at a time. It's a slow film, but it's not a 'bad' film. Whereas 'The Final Frontier' very nearly killed the franchise. It had some good parts, but as a whole, it's almost universally seen as about as bad as Trek gets (without getting into 'Nemesis.')
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 2:05:16 GMT
TMP is actually the best Trek movie up until and including the JJ Abrams reboot (haven't watched the later ones). Flawed, but still better than the rest.
Guess it's the only Roddenberry movie, with all the good and bad that comes with that.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 9, 2018 2:08:06 GMT
Star Trek never got better than TNG. A couple of the movies are good - KHAAAAAAAAAAN! But it's been designed as a series. Maybe for the better. Big budget popcorn films are largely fluff anyway.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 9, 2018 2:25:25 GMT
As I have long maintained, I am a firm believer in the Star Trek Movie curse.
Odd films = bad (or meh)
Even films = good or great (or at least less bad)
This gets turned on its head for Nemesis, but the trick is adding the two values together, hence Star Trek Nemesis = 10, but 1+0 = 1, thus an odd-numbered film and so shit.
Meanwhile, the reboot (technically 11) = 1+1, so thus 2, which makes it an even film, and thus a better film. Rinse and repeat for Into Darkness and Beyond.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 3:54:49 GMT
As I have long maintained, I am a firm believer in the Star Trek Movie curse. Odd films = bad (or meh) Even films = good or great (or at least less bad) This gets turned on its head for Nemesis, but the trick is adding the two values together, hence Star Trek Nemesis = 10, but 1+0 = 1, thus an odd-numbered film and so shit. Meanwhile, the reboot (technically 11) = 1+1, so thus 2, which makes it an even film, and thus a better film. Rinse and repeat for Into Darkness and Beyond. Just accept the truth, the first one was the best
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Post by colfoley on Feb 9, 2018 3:59:56 GMT
I consider the Motion Picture to be a worse movie then Star Trek 5. You're in the deep minority there then. I mean, there's no accounting for taste, but, pfft - Shatner fighting 'God?' How self-absorbed could you get? TMP at it's core (wrapped in a mystery, behind an enigma, enshrouded by a riddle) raises some very intriguing, thought provoking questions - it's a bit on the high-minded side of things, but if that's what you're into (I am,) then it's redeemable if you can get past the utter slog of extended visual scenes of ships slowly moving in space, with characters staring agape for sometimes minutes at a time. It's a slow film, but it's not a 'bad' film. Whereas 'The Final Frontier' very nearly killed the franchise. It had some good parts, but as a whole, it's almost universally seen as about as bad as Trek gets (without getting into 'Nemesis.') And I couldn't get past the constant tech real. And I suppose in that vain Shat does come off as a bit arrogant but A. I come from an SG-1 background so battling 'False Gods' is second hand to me. And B. I have said numerous times that I find a lot of Trek pre DS9 to be very arrogant.
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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 2:17:41 GMT
Holy reused dead people, Batman! I'm caught up! Ash Tyler: I was on the edge when Ash Tyler gaslighted and whined and even had the maker damned audacity to GET ONTO HER FOR NOT GETTING BACK WITH HIM.
I don't care if he EVER figures out who the hell he is. He is shit. HE is the worst shit that's ever been shit.
Thank goodness the writers had the smarts to NOT let that relationship resume. I mean, dead maker! it's 2018! everyone should be able to recognize an unhealthy relationship! No spoiler here: I've decide Sarek is hawt. I don't know why I decided it, but my brain has decided YUM. So I thought I'd share that. Georgiou being made Captain again was the worst idea ever.
SURELY they are not so dumb to have promised her COMPLETE and LONG TERM control of a ship with the ONLY spore drive? Or honestly, they deserve being eradicated by Klingons. *sigh* I guess I'm in it for the long haul, even though, got to admit, it is super strange to hate the new series for a NEW reason. It's like Enterprise in it's badness but like for super new reasons. I think mostly the reason is the Stupid Card. Everyone has got one. PS as someone who hates Captain Archer, his name drop made me cringe. barf. I don't know who I hate more, him, or Ash Tyler. PSS Lorca is totally coming back, it's so obvious. I wish they hadn't wasted him by letting him be a total villain with no nuances at all. Such a buildup, such a disappointment. colfoley cuz you TOTALLY wanted to know my thoughts.
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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 2:35:37 GMT
oh yeah, I was totally thinking of you The Hype Himself when Stamets started talking about modifying some technobabble and riding the mycelial network wave explosion.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 10, 2018 4:02:42 GMT
Holy reused dead people, Batman! I'm caught up! Ash Tyler: I was on the edge when Ash Tyler gaslighted and whined and even had the maker damned audacity to GET ONTO HER FOR NOT GETTING BACK WITH HIM.
I don't care if he EVER figures out who the hell he is. He is shit. HE is the worst shit that's ever been shit.
Thank goodness the writers had the smarts to NOT let that relationship resume. I mean, dead maker! it's 2018! everyone should be able to recognize an unhealthy relationship! No spoiler here: I've decide Sarek is hawt. I don't know why I decided it, but my brain has decided YUM. So I thought I'd share that. Georgiou being made Captain again was the worst idea ever.
SURELY they are not so dumb to have promised her COMPLETE and LONG TERM control of a ship with the ONLY spore drive? Or honestly, they deserve being eradicated by Klingons. *sigh* I guess I'm in it for the long haul, even though, got to admit, it is super strange to hate the new series for a NEW reason. It's like Enterprise in it's badness but like for super new reasons. I think mostly the reason is the Stupid Card. Everyone has got one. PS as someone who hates Captain Archer, his name drop made me cringe. barf. I don't know who I hate more, him, or Ash Tyler. PSS Lorca is totally coming back, it's so obvious. I wish they hadn't wasted him by letting him be a total villain with no nuances at all. Such a buildup, such a disappointment. colfoley cuz you TOTALLY wanted to know my thoughts. I did. I liked the Enterprise name drop though. Like with ST Beyond nice seeing the continuity/ name mention of that much maligned show.
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 11, 2018 0:52:46 GMT
So I've been wondering, why do Lorca and Ash have American accents? I thought that there might be some plot reason, but with one episode of the first season to go, none has surfaced. Both actors are British, and we've had plenty of British accents in Trek before. Why make them pretend? Michelle Yeoh is the only major non-Klingon character who doesn't sound American.
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Post by mousestalker on Feb 11, 2018 19:01:15 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Feb 11, 2018 19:24:53 GMT
Fav Captains/ those I'd want to serve under: Sisko, Janeway, Kirk (alt) Kirk, Archer, Picard.
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Post by phoray on Feb 12, 2018 4:00:07 GMT
I am completely satisfied with episode 15 in every way.
I hope this is a sign that they have now found their feet.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 12, 2018 4:01:37 GMT
I am completely satisfied with episode 15 in every way. I hope this is a sign that they have now found their feet. You know my take. I think this show has been really great for a while, but it has had the feeling that it might hurtle into the abyss of medicority for a while now. But I am hopeful that you are right. Of course I think with this show how fast it goes through plot lines it could be a matter of "THAT ONE WAS SO AWESOME" and then..."meh."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 5:39:33 GMT
Well that was fun.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 12, 2018 7:18:55 GMT
So. Ironically not much to say about the episode but I did fucking call it. The Klingons were turned basically, they are being forced to unite by force. Now the real work begins, and I love their solution. More on that in a bit.
If there has been one over arching theme of this season is the blending of lines, of morality, of commonly held species tropes.
Humans acting like Klingons (Lorca, the Emperor).
Klingons acting like humans (Tyler)
And an adoptive daughter of a Vulcan who is choosing to embrace more of the human then the Vulcan. (Burnham)
And as I also called it, and something I was robably dissapointed in unfairly, Federation ideals won out in the end. At least in this show they have actually been challenged and closely examined in a way Star Trek has rarely done. Both the We are Starfleet and the speech at the end was well done.
But there is a twist. Burnham wasn't willing to violate Federation principles but she kind of nudge nudge winked winked at Li'rell to let her do that very thing. Hold an entire race hostage with a bomb she might very well have to use. And of course Tyler went with her. However we have to imagine that one day that bomb will become neutralized but hopefully the new way of thinking will be in place and the Klingon Empire will be the curmegeonly frenemies we come to know from here on. Very plausible deniability, dubious, not getting the hands dirty but using people to do your dirty work by proxy. Well done.
I loved that Michael was pardoned and promoted back to Commander. Probably no real in universe explanation for it but it feels like the perfect exclamation mark for her character arc. It tied it up and her promotion wasn't neccessarily 'well done' but an acknowledgement she got ovre her main issues from the season finale, and learned that it is ok to stick to your principles. Which, in hindsight, probably why that premiere was just so...blunt about driving the point home.
And about that finale really nice seeing the Enterprise and all. But A. was I the only one hoping that the distress call board would be from the Burhan and that we would hear Jason Issac's voice over the com? I was holding out hope even after the '17' popped up. And B. OK that shot at the end was way too casual given something IS FREAKING OUT THE ENTERPRISE UNDER CAPTAIN PIKE. I mean great cliff hanger but given the Enterprise was sending out a priority one distress call I would be a bit more nervous about them just casually flying up to them.
Oh, and one more thing. This show just continues to defy all my expectations. I was expecting a breakneck action episode of rising tension ( I guess we already got that this season), with more then a few plot twists and this that and the other thing but.......we got a slow talkey episode character driven but...well I mean this ep was a bit boring. Nice conclusion (a lot of Discovery episodes have their issues and thatn OMG conclusion) so I still highly regard it but huh.
OH AND thank goodness for putting the Spore Drive to bed once and for all. It was such a neat concept at the start of the series but again its been getting annoying as heck. So for season 2: Any predictions?
The biggest problem they are going to face from a writing stand point is that all these characters have had pretty satisfactory character arcs. Burnham had multiple issues to get over this season from her naivatae to her reckless commitment to emotion. Etc. Saru got over his fear to become a capable CO. Stamets has...well maybe Stamets can have an arc. Tilly got over her same fear and is now an Ensign.
But where do they go from here. Can they risk creating brand new arcs for these characters, brand new lies they have to over come, brand new issues that will forge them into even better people...or will this be a fairly typical ST show? (please no) Or will we get new characters?
Of course I am hoping to see more from li'rell and Tyler next season, there is some great character stuff that could come from there...
And just what is up with the Enterprise and how much time do you think they can milk out of her being on the show? Will this be the start of the next arc or will it be an ep or 2 before getting on season 2's next arc? Will season 2 be more episodic in nature? (could be done well actually if they have a few through threads for the season)
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 12, 2018 10:57:23 GMT
Let's keep up the higher-minded Federation values.
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 12, 2018 13:33:50 GMT
I enjoyed that. As has been said, it was nice to see Federation values win out in the end. And I totally called that the endpoint of the series would be Burnham's redemption and reinstatement into Starfleet. Glad they didn't also promote her to captain...
It was a nice touch to end with the TOS theme.
As to next season: Looks like we're going to see Spock. Do you think it will be Zachary Quinto?
In terms of character arcs, they could easily expand the roles of the bridge crew. I'd love to know more about Airiam, and how Detmer got that thing on her head in between the battle of the Binary Stars and her time on Discovery.
There's going to be a new captain, who was supposed to be picked up at Vulcan. Could we have our first non-human captain?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 18:45:17 GMT
Thought it was a poor closure and a disappointment after some better episodes preceding it. Before this series started, I had pretty low expectations. A few surprisingly good episodes after the mid-season break really raised my hope for the series. But now, in the end, I'm somewhat surprised that it pretty much met my expectations.
The best thing about it is that it made me get Netflix and now I'm watching all the old ones I hadn't watched yet. I'm now halfway through VOY s7, the last Trek season I haven't watched yet--and thankfully, it's more enjoyable than Discovery.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 12, 2018 21:23:37 GMT
Oh and I forgot (again) but I got to If Wishes were Horses in my Lore Run with Lorerunner. Paid pretty good attention to the episode too *ahem*. I am actually a bit surprised at how good season 1 of Deep Space 9 is. Granted not the best and the first few eps were rough but lately they have really been smoothing out those rough patches. I mean nothing too special but this episode was actually quite fun and, while I did remember the plot twist at the end, it was still an interesting take on the whole situation. OH and just as I was beginning to start griping about the technobabble in this episode, as is a big problem with me and Trek in general, Kira goes "What the hell does that even mean?" I turned to my fiancee and went "When Star Trek characters become self aware".
But really, wanted to focus on Bashir and I am curious to see the Lorerunners thoughts on this. Now this episode did add a little flavor to Dax because it gave us...two of them...a stereotypical fawning female fantasy of Bashir (not that I can blame him Terry Farrel probably is one of the sexiest women in Trek), and the real deal. But, given what we know about Bashir later on in the show, I found that to be an OOC portryal of what he would value in Dax. Hell Dax herself even points out the conundrum "Do you really want to see me like that?" Which brings up a few possibilities, Bashir knew all along, he knew it was just a fantasy and was able to use his superior intellect to bend the fantasy to portray something more in line with his season 1 portryal. The awkward Kirk character who is keeping everyone at a distance via his flirting. His awkwardness is a self defense mechanicism. Option 2: This is just an idle fantasy on his part because it is obvious he is attracted to Dax for more then her submissiveness and good looks, but we all have our fantasies right? Which Dax again pointed out. Option 3: For some reason, maybe because of his intellect, Bashir was able to block the thoughts, mostly. They knew he fancied Dax, but didn't know what fantasies he really had with her so they made a more generic template.
Other than that it was nice that, despite the main crew knowing it was all fantasies they still gradually fall into it. Bashir cares for 'Dax', Sisko identifies with Buck Bokai, and O'Brien gets scared shitless by Rumplestilskin...though again Sisko figures it out before things can get really bad.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Feb 12, 2018 22:50:04 GMT
'Of Wishes Were Horses' was early enough to not have a clearly cut characterization to Bashir or Dax - it was made when Bashir was still meant to be the 'newby loudmouth whose totally full of himself' (though I personally never saw that aspect of his characterization,) and when Dax was supposed to be more of a calm, ageless, ethereal character.
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