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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 30, 2017 8:01:22 GMT
Do you think we will ever figure out what happened with the Architect? It seems clear that he was another of the original Tevinter magisters who entered the Black City, so one could assume, even if the Warden killed him, he had the same ability Corypheus had to body jump. But if that were true he should have body jumped into the Warden or one of your accompanying warden companions. (Valena would probably the most likely candidate, if she was brought along, since her epilogue states she either disappears into the deep roads or leaves the Wardens eventually).
I also read somewhere that the Into the Abyss quest-line in DAI originally included the Architect somehow. (which makes a lot of sense, because he had already experimented on Wardens and would likely know how to manipulate their Calling... It was never explained how Corypheus could do this.)
I would like to see what he's actually up to since it is implied that he controls all if not most of the Darkspawn (the dwarves report they are withdrawing from their tunnels). Could this possibly be connected to the Warden civil war?
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Post by phoray on Sept 30, 2017 11:51:10 GMT
I think it's pretty canon that he died. Corypheus states he couldn't find any of the other tainted magisters and so he must have been the only one to survive.
So regardless of Warden action, DAI canonized his death. Or the Architect was unfindable by even one of his own kind, which just sounds kinda weird. You'd think the Architect would love to understand why he's so different from his brethren. As that difference seemed to trouble him in the book "The Calling"
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 30, 2017 12:55:56 GMT
I think it's pretty canon that he died. Corypheus states he couldn't find any of the other tainted magisters and so he must have been the only one to survive. So regardless of Warden action, DAI canonized his death. Or the Architect was unfindable by even one of his own kind, which just sounds kinda weird. You'd think the Architect would love to understand why he's so different from his brethren. As that difference seemed to trouble him in the book "The Calling" Actually there is a codex entry from DAO which talks about the other surviving Magisters. Well, at least 3 of them. Corypheus, dispite being a darkspawn, didn't seem to have any control over them and didn't use them at all. Perhaps he couldn't. Perhaps they are firmly under the Architect's control.
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Post by phoray on Sept 30, 2017 13:21:10 GMT
Have you read the Calling?? Even Utha isn't under his control.
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 30, 2017 13:58:34 GMT
Control meaning command... not domination. They are definitely under his control as he is their leader.
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 30, 2017 14:11:41 GMT
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_A_Different_Darkspawn%3FThe above link is the codex entry I was referring to. So we know that 3 Magisters other than Corypheus survived, and are somewhere in the Deep Roads. Seeing as Dragon Age was founded on the Darkspawn... I wonder why BioWare has largely abandoned their story in favor the Mage/Templar conflict.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 14:28:19 GMT
Gaider said a while back in an interview that the Architect was originally planned to show up in the Adamant/Wardens Here Lies the Abyss quest but was removed in one of the quests many iterations because the quest worked better without him. Doesn't mean he will never show up again. I never liked the character, so I don't care if he's gone for good.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 15:16:59 GMT
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_A_Different_Darkspawn%3FThe above link is the codex entry I was referring to. So we know that 3 Magisters other than Corypheus survived, and are somewhere in the Deep Roads. Seeing as Dragon Age was founded on the Darkspawn... I wonder why BioWare has largely abandoned their story in favor the Mage/Templar conflict. I think the idea is, that the Darkspawn are a symptom of a much larger problem, which goes back to before the formation of the Veil. To tell the larger story, they had start establishing some of the basic canon that explains why you can't just kill the Archdemons/Old Gods and say "guess we're done here". The Mage/Templar war is a faint echo of a much older conflict that goes back to the war between the elves and the titans.
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Post by Superhik on Sept 30, 2017 16:24:25 GMT
Meh, pretty obvious they invented them for exp, kind of looked like M.Manson, tbh. Whole thing didn't make any sense, bring L'etoile back and let him whip writers in shape.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 1, 2017 5:54:51 GMT
Seeing as Dragon Age was founded on the Darkspawn... I wonder why BioWare has largely abandoned their story in favor the Mage/Templar conflict. It’s interesting you say that, because in fact, every game in the series has ended with a hero battling an enemy empowered by the Blight. Urthemiel? Blighted Old God. Meredith? Wielded a sword of blighted lyrium. Corypheus? One of the freaking original darkspawn. And of course, there was the Mother. And now in the Knight Errant comic, we’ve learned .., ... there is red lyrium in Tevinter, so we’re still dealing with the Blight indirectly. What I’m getting at is while other villains may step to the forefront, the main source of strife in the Dragon Age series remains the Blight. The darkspawn are only the embodiment of that corruption.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 1, 2017 7:34:17 GMT
Fair point. But it is still odd that the Darkspawn were largely absent from DAI, when Corypheus could have had a ready-made army from them. I wish it had been explained... but perhaps like I said before the 6th Blight plot line may be coming down the pipeline.
In all honestly, BW left so many plotines open (Warden civil war, 6th Blight rumors, Qunari/Tevinter renewed conflict, Solas' elf rebellion, Titans), it's almost seems like they're setting up an MMO instead of the next game.
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 1, 2017 8:09:13 GMT
Interesting note; the other day I read how the Darkspawn weren't actually included in the original planning stages of the dragon age franchise and Gaider had to be talked into adding them to give the players something to kill guilt free. He added the toxic, plague like elements that would become the blight/taint to them to make the concept of a one-dimensional evil orcish horde more interesting.
So it's interesting to think about how something that wasn't initially going to be part of the setting at all has become the overarching big bad of the franchise.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 1, 2017 13:06:36 GMT
The whole business of Corypheus and darkspawn was ignored. In Legacy it specifically says that his presence was attracting the darkspawn to his prison, which is why we encountered them there, and yet somehow he stopped this from occurring in DAI, so it would seem it was an unconscious attraction in Legacy and once he got his full faculties back he decided it didn't fit his agenda. I would have thought a darkspawn army would have been easier to control than a demon one but of course that would have brought the full attention of the Grey Wardens onto him, so presumably that is why he went with corrupting their order instead. Although, according to Legacy and WoT2, the Grey Wardens were never a problem for him because he could control them.
There were a number of things that were never explained about Corypheus. In the timeline he and other intelligent darkspawn were only discovered by the Grey Wardens 12 years after the death of Dumat. The timeline definitely says there was more than one but he seemed the "greatest" of them, in other words their leader. So what were they doing during the 200 years of the 1st Blight? Was it only Dumat's death that allowed them to function normally? Corypheus seemed to have lost his memory when we meet him in Legacy, still thinking he was back at the time he invaded the Golden/Black City, so the fact he was unaware of the others could just be because of his fragmented recollection. If he was able to control the Wardens through the taint, it is possible that the individual Magisters could cut off themselves from other intelligent darkspawn so they weren't aware of them.
The Architect also seems to have suffered memory loss so it may be it was the contact with the Grey Wardens and the lore of the Chantry that enabled Corypheus to recover his. May be each time he body jumped a Warden he got back a bit more, in contrast to the Architect who may only ever have jumped from one darkspawn to another. Why didn't he jump to one of our fellow wardens or the Hero, who knows? They never explained why jumping to a Grey Warden didn't destroy Corypheus like it does an arch-demon. The split soul with the dragon didn't explain it at all. Surely he should have jumped to his dragon?
Until they definitely show us to the contrary, I'm assuming that even if the Architect is permanently dead and another Magister eaten by one of his fellows, that still leaves 4 to be accounted for, 2 of which may well be linked to a sleeping dragon god that has not yet arisen as an arch-demon.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 1, 2017 16:15:26 GMT
I don’t think Corypheus can exert control over the darkspawn; his call only attracted them. And doing so was actually detrimental; they couldn’t free him, but they did make it harder for anyone trying to reach Corypheus’ prison.
The Architect himself only displayed a limited sway over the darkspawn, with his forces being vastly outnumbered by the Mother’s own.
And even if Corypheus could control a sizeable number of darkspawn, they’re pretty useless as anything except muscle. You can’t send a darkspawn to infiltrate an Orlesian palace or to supervise the mining of red lyrium, and they don’t co-operate with non-darkspawn.
Since he had a plan to build an entire army of demons + ensorcelled Wardens capable of conquering all of Thedas, what did he need darkspawn for?
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 1, 2017 17:15:40 GMT
The impression I got from the cutscenes with Erimond was that each individual demon they summoned required the sacrifice of a warden warrior; a one to one ratio. Issue there being that there are only a few hundred wardens in Orlais - okay, the wiki says "several hundred" but the point being it's less than a thousand, and then fewer than that because you're only sacrificing the non-mages.
Granted I'm sure a few hundred demons and a few dozen to a couple hundred mages controlling them could do a hell of a lot of damage, but that's not exactly a worldshattering force. Was the implication that the true bulk of the army would only come through with the Nightmare? Or was this less "use these few hundred demons to conquer Orlais" than "Use the kaiju spider demon to conquer Orlais"?
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 1, 2017 17:31:24 GMT
The initial ritual requires the death of a Warden. That ritual also puts the Mage Warden under the control of Corypheus. After that, they can summon more demons. We frequently encounter Mage Wardens at Adamant in the presence of whole packs of demons.
(Also, there are Wardens from Ferelden and the Free Marches present at Adamant.)
Given that Corypheus did indeed conquer Thedas with his army of demons in the bad future of In Hushed Whispers, it obviously was a world-shattering force.
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Post by midnightwolf on Oct 1, 2017 20:11:16 GMT
He's alive in my Canon world state. But yes, he needs to be re-addressed in future.
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Post by midnightwolf on Oct 1, 2017 20:15:41 GMT
The impression I got from the cutscenes with Erimond was that each individual demon they summoned required the sacrifice of a warden warrior; a one to one ratio. Issue there being that there are only a few hundred wardens in Orlais - okay, the wiki says "several hundred" but the point being it's less than a thousand, and then fewer than that because you're only sacrificing the non-mages. Granted I'm sure a few hundred demons and a few dozen to a couple hundred mages controlling them could do a hell of a lot of damage, but that's not exactly a worldshattering force. Was the implication that the true bulk of the army would only come through with the Nightmare? Or was this less "use these few hundred demons to conquer Orlais" than "Use the kaiju spider demon to conquer Orlais"? Also add: That the Grey Warden's seem to prefer to recruit Mages over Warrior's/Rogues. During the Mage/Templar rebellion the Warden's in the Anderfels put out an open invitation to all Mages who want no part in the War. Yet refused Templar's.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 1, 2017 20:45:58 GMT
That was exceptional. Normally only one mage per Circle was recruited by the Wardens (WoT p.151). There were very few mages recruited by Duncan and that was why he needed the Circle of Magi to help with the magic for the Joining. In fact the small number of mages in the Wardens would account for why they needed treaties with the Circle of Magi so they could call more into play at the time of a Blight. They may have picked up a few more mage recruits as a result of the mage/Templar conflict but the number of mages would be still be more in double figures rather than hundreds.
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