Post by gervaise21 on Oct 3, 2017 12:21:15 GMT
Having revisited the Gauntlet in the light of later revelations what do you make of it? Was it just spirits with their own take on events, even responding to the faith in the minds of the visitors (even though we may not even be believers) or do the claims of the Gauntlet seem to disprove later claims by the Chantry and historians?
The Guardian: Claimed he was to guard the ashes for the faithful to visit "until the Imperium has crumbled into the sea". Clearly that has not yet happened and yet the Guardian had disappeared from the Shrine, taking the ashes with him, well before the events in DAI (mentioned in a codex), so did he disapprove of the use the Chantry was making of the shrine because they were not the true representatives of the faith?
Ealisay: Claimed to be the dearest childhood friend of Andraste when they would sing songs together in which Andraste celebrated the beauty of life and "all who heard her were filled with joy". It was only after she heard the Maker that Andraste sang no more of simple things. WoT2 gives a history of Andraste largely based off the writings of Drakon and other people in the Chantry. This suggests a troubled childhood, particularly after a strange event involving the death of her half-sister, Halliserre, that left her sick in body and afflicted in her mind. Only after this did she start her search for the Maker, which also suggests that he was not unknown to her until he responded to her singing but that she deliberately sought him out. This is in direct contradiction to what we were previously told and as is recounted in the Canticle of Andraste, where she sung a plea to any god who would hear her and only the Maker responded.
Brona: The mother of Andraste. Her riddle is worth repeating here: "Echoes from a shadow realm, whispers of things yet to come. Thought's strange sister dwells in night. Is swept away by dawning light." The answer to this is "Dreams". Then she continues: "A dream came upon me as my daughter slumbered beneath my heart. It told of her life and of her betrayal and death. I am sorrow and regret. I am a mother weeping bitter tears for a daughter she could not save."
This always struck me as odd as it would seem to suggest that Andraste was fated to be the prophet of the Maker but also to be betrayed and die in the way she did. Now after we heard about Avvar beliefs about certain people being destined to return after death to complete the work they couldn't in their previous life, this speech of Brona made more sense in that they came from barbarians who likely had similar beliefs, so that could account for her mother believing she had a destiny in life. However, the betrayal and death part is less easy to explain since this would definitely seem to be foretelling the future. Not that his would be unique in the setting. Flemeth appears to have some ability in that direction and we also meet Eleni Zinovia, the statue in the basement of Kinloch Hold, who was cursed that way after predicting the future once too often to her husband and ruler Valerius. Nevertheless, if Andraste was fated to die, even if her mother could not prevent it, surely it meant that must be part of the Maker's plan? There is also a passage from Andraste 7:
"Let the blade pass through the flesh,
Let my blood touch the ground,
Let my cries touch their hearts.
Let mine be the last sacrifice."
If Andraste said this before her death, then apparently she knew she would be betrayed and die too and asked that it be used to convert the people watching. If that was the case, them surely everything that happened was the will of the Maker since she even speaks this as a prayer. Why then would he turn away from the world as the Chantry teach? Surely her prayers were answered in the conversion of Hessarian and Tevinter?
Hessarian: Which brings me on to his contribution. He makes no claim that he heard the voice of the Maker that caused him to act as he did. Rather he says: "I could not bear the sight of Andraste's suffering and mercy bade me end her life." It is a real stretch to suggest the voice of the Maker was "mercy" who bade him end her life. It was a human reaction to seeing her. His wife had already said he wanted to give her a swift death but it was her suggestion to make an example of her. So really he was only carrying through with his original intent. This would seem to back up the idea that his later conversion was political convenience, not divine inspiration as he claimed, which always seemed rather odd considering it took him 10 years to act on it.
Havard: The only real thing of note here is that he said he took the ashes "out of Tevinter and into the mountains of the east". This almost suggests that initially he took the ashes into either the High Reaches or possibly the Hunterhorn Mountains and only later were the ashes moved to the Frostbacks, since the area now known as Ferelden could hardly be considered still part of Tevinter as her armies had already driven Tevinter out, although I suppose it is possible to put the interpretation on it that had only recently happened and so in Havard's mind the lowlands were still Tevinter. Not only that but the Timeline suggests that the ashes were only taken to Haven and lost to memory in-135, so clearly prior to that they were somewhere accessible and known to believers. This would tie in with the Guardian saying that he was responsible for them being there.
Shartan: In the preface to the newly restored Canticle of Shartan, scholars were casting doubt on the fact that Shartan was ever a real person, plus suggesting his story in the Canticle has become mixed in with an earlier folktale about "a trickster warrior who fought against tyrants" (clearly a reference to Solas). This would suggest the writers were trying to place a similar doubt in our minds. If that was the case, though, then who did we meet in the Gauntlet, particularly considering this shade appears to you no matter what your race and whether you have spoken with the Chantry sister in Denerim or not? So it can't be a case of the spirit simply responding to the belief in the mind of those present. I must admit that I cling to this explanation more strongly than anything else since I most definitely want Shartan to be a real historical figure in his own right and nothing to do with Solas.
So anyone have any suggestions as to what to make of these discrepancies?
