dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 22, 2017 1:13:54 GMT
I've noticed that I repeatedly have the option to kick Sera out with the "You don't fit the Inquisition" line of dialogue. I have that for no one else. Why does DAI seem to want me to fire Sera?
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Post by phoray on Oct 22, 2017 1:30:05 GMT
I've noticed that I repeatedly have the option to kick Sera out with the "You don't fit the Inquisition" line of dialogue. I have that for no one else. Why does DAI seem to want me to fire Sera? Because she's a "hate her" or "love her" character and it's possible she may murder someone right in front of your eyes and you take offense to that. Too bad they didn't give the same freedom to get rid of Leliana.
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auronvigo
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Post by auronvigo on Oct 22, 2017 1:36:36 GMT
It may just be the way they designed it. Maybe they thought some players would find her personality a little too much and would get rid of her quickly. I know she has a crisis point with low approval, but I have never seen it. Even while going for the Trial of the Lovers. If you initially tell her no does she show up later anyways?
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Oct 22, 2017 2:03:16 GMT
Too bad they didn't give the same freedom to get rid of Leliana.
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Post by phoray on Oct 22, 2017 2:07:52 GMT
Too bad they didn't give the same freedom to get rid of Leliana. BTR I don't know this acronym.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Oct 22, 2017 2:23:27 GMT
I don't know this acronym. Fixed
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Post by smilesja on Oct 22, 2017 2:33:35 GMT
They anticipated that Sera will be a very divisive character.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 22, 2017 3:25:25 GMT
Still, constantly seeing the option seems ridiculous. Also, I can imagine that they would not have an option like that for an adviser which is why Leliana would not have the option. In any case, if you're going to have this option for one companion shouldn't it be available for at least one or two others? It makes it seem like BioWare wants you to kick her out. My Dalish Inquisitor won't be booting any elves out, and it's frankly insulting that the option is so readily available for the reason that he sees a kinship with her (even if she doesn't feel the same, and is different from other Dalish in this respect).
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Post by anarchy65 on Oct 22, 2017 4:19:57 GMT
I normally don't drop any companions, even if I don't like them.
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Post by sageoflife on Oct 22, 2017 4:36:38 GMT
They anticipated that Sera will be a very divisive character. And yet they didn't give the option to boot Vivienne.
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Post by shinary on Oct 22, 2017 4:45:33 GMT
I've noticed that I repeatedly have the option to kick Sera out with the "You don't fit the Inquisition" line of dialogue. I have that for no one else. Why does DAI seem to want me to fire Sera? Because they were aware that Sera would be a highly "despised" character by many. And I definitely see were people are coming from, as she is childish, prejudice and not very kind, but rather show selfishness disguised as kindness. Now I really didn't care much for her character at first, but over time I have started to, if not like her, then respect her more. Especially since she in Trespasser shows a growth in her character, that I found was unexpected and very positive. Though I would say she is still childish and prejudice in her way, the kindness she seemed to selfishly portray in the first part of the game has become more genuine. Example: Inquisition: Lavellan gets left by Solas - Sera mocks Lavellan's heritage rather than realizing the pain behind it. Trespasser: Sera expresses genuine compassion and sadness over the fact that Solas never returned to Lavellan and that he left her in the first place. This is a character progression that I honestly love. It emulates a character trait that I greatly respect in real people, which is growth and the capacity to evolve and change as a person. So I started to appreciate her a lot more, and see her more as misguided than simply annoying.
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Post by shinary on Oct 22, 2017 4:52:50 GMT
They anticipated that Sera will be a very divisive character. And yet they didn't give the option to boot Vivienne. True, I think that might have something to do with the fact that Vivienne is more reasonable and approachable, were Sera is chaotic and very argumentative without actually having any good arguments. Now, what I like about Sera is her "people are people" argument, which shows a broad acceptance - but at the same time mages and entities like Cole are excluded, making her statement rather mute. Nowm you might not like Vivienne or agree with her points of view - I know I certainly don't - but she has reasonable arguments for her believes. I really thought I would despise her, and though that is true about certain aspects of her character, I also appreciate her greatly. I actually got a real fondness for her, even though that many of my views could not be further from hers. And I think the estimated that it was easier to respect Vivienne than Sera, which is why one can be booted and the other not. Though, this is all speculation and could easily be wrong.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 22, 2017 5:16:45 GMT
They anticipated that Sera will be a very divisive character. And yet they didn't give the option to boot Vivienne. I thought you could boot her as soon as you met her?
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
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Post by Exile Isan on Oct 22, 2017 5:21:02 GMT
I thought you could boot her as soon as you met her? You can refuse to let her join the Inquisition when you first meet her, but at that point you don't really know her so you don't know whether you're going to like her or not. Where as with Sera you can refuse to let her join when you initially meet her and then any time during the course of the game can boot her out. I've always thought it was odd that you could do this with Sera, but not any of the other optional companions.
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Post by Blaze on Oct 22, 2017 5:21:07 GMT
I've noticed that I repeatedly have the option to kick Sera out with the "You don't fit the Inquisition" line of dialogue. I have that for no one else. Why does DAI seem to want me to fire Sera? Because she's a "hate her" or "love her" character and it's possible she may murder someone right in front of your eyes and you take offense to that. Too bad they didn't give the same freedom to get rid of Leliana. right, good luck running the inquisition without leliana. vivienne on the other hand...
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Oct 22, 2017 5:26:22 GMT
well to answer the OP question, sera is unpredictable and many might argue that the way she operates doesn't fit the inquisition. so i can see why there is the option to get rid of her. that being said, i don't get why many other of the companions don't get the option, there could be many reasons to get rid of a lot of them and i see no reason why we can't if we so choose.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 22, 2017 8:46:20 GMT
I think there is a lot of sub-text to the reasons why most companions cannot be kicked out once you've recruited them but it is never explicitly stated. However, with many of them the principle objection you would have to working with them would be flagged up the moment you meet them:
Dorian - Do you want to work with a 'Vint? Do you trust his story? In my own case I had my character go to the Templars after visiting Redcliffe because he thought the whole time magic story was inplausible and he didn't trust Dorian any more than any of the other Tevinter characters. However, after Dorian ran ahead to warn us and then helped the wounded during the attack on Haven, my character saw him in a different light and so recruited him. Whilst Giselle doesn't approve of having him around, the other advisors, particularly Leliana and Josephine would seem the potential benefits of keeping him and so would argue behind the scenes against kicking him out at a later stage. In fact if you push him enough (have negative approval) Dorian may actually leave himself voluntarily before the end.
Cole - If you can overcome your misgivings about have a spirit assisting you at the beginning, there is little reason to get rid of him later. He might stay knocking around invisible anyway so probably better to keep him in plain sight.
Vivienne - It is obvious she is a player of the Game when you first meet her. If you are willing to work with a person who you know will constantly be scheming on her own behalf, then the comments about not kicking her out later are pretty much the same as for Dorian; your advisors think the connection could be useful and she would cause too many problems on the outside if you kick her out. Plus once you recruit her she becomes a possible Divine.
Cassandra - Founder of the organisation and so more likely to want to kick you out but instead just voices disapproval if she doesn't like the direction you are taking. Also a potential Divine.
Iron Bull - He is upfront about being a Qunari spy. If you are willing to overlook that then, why kick him out later when he has done nothing to warrant it?
Varric - No real reason why you would want to get rid of him and he was recruited before you by Cassandra/Leliana so they would probably override any decision of yours anyway.
Solas - Well the reason you can't ditch him is obvious but he does seem determined to stay around even if he can't stand you and again he was recruited by Cassandra/Leliana so probably they wouldn't let you ditch him. He does have useful insights into rift magic.
Blackwall - Again, no real reason not to keep him on once he has been recruited. Of course it is possible to effectively kick him out by inaction once you know the truth.
So really Sera is the only character that you decide to recruit who had no real political clout that would warrant your advisors arguing to keep them on. Plus you only really get to see just what she is like once you do recruit her. If you object to her views, her attitude, her actions and you feel you cannot live with them, then you might start to regret having taken her on in the first place. Hence the option to tell her to leave.
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Post by fylimar on Oct 22, 2017 10:30:35 GMT
I agree with gervaise21, you know exactly what you would get with the other optional characters - Vivienne is an accomplished player of the game and a Circle-loyal mage, the first is shown in her introduction scene, the second she tell you. Cole is a spirit. IB is honest about him being a Qunari spy and you've met Dorian a few times before recruiting him. With Blackwall you have some choices during his personal quest, which imo is very well thought through by the devs. Sera is a special case: on one hand, she is a speaker for the little people and a Red Jenny, an organisation, most players wanted to know more about, on the other hand, she is a character, that not everyone likes. I like her with my dwarves and humans, but I have some problems with my elves. They never talk to Sera about elven culture or religion, since she makes it perfectly clear in her first scene, that she isn't interested in that. But she is still an asshole in some scenes, that could personally be very sad moments for the inqui. I never did send her away and I always managed to have her at least in a friendly zone, so I never had her crisis scene, but I can understand, that people might not like her and want a chance to send her away. Some of her meaner scenes (like her reaction after Arbor Wilds) are late into the game and maybe, some people would like to send her away after that.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 22, 2017 17:38:28 GMT
I've noticed that I repeatedly have the option to kick Sera out with the "You don't fit the Inquisition" line of dialogue. I have that for no one else. Why does DAI seem to want me to fire Sera? Because they were aware that Sera would be a highly "despised" character by many. And I definitely see were people are coming from, as she is childish, prejudice and not very kind, but rather show selfishness disguised as kindness. I like your examples but I'm not sure I think Sera is actually selfish. She actually WANTS to help people. Really wants to help people. She gets involved with stuff for Red Jenny that benefits people other than herself. Pretty much all the time. The only thing she does that's of direct benefit to herself is join the Inquisition and, well, her motive is the same as that of everyone else there. Honestly, I'd rather have the choice to boot Vivienne than Sera. Vivienne is divisive with most other companions. She is, however, similar to Sera in one respect: she wants the status quo restored. My Inquisitor is on the same page as Cassandra and sees the Inquisition as a way not only to defeat Corypheus but also to perhaps make things better for everyone.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 22, 2017 17:41:33 GMT
I think there is a lot of sub-text to the reasons why most companions cannot be kicked out once you've recruited them but it is never explicitly stated. However, with many of them the principle objection you would have to working with them would be flagged up the moment you meet them: [examples snipped for brevity] So really Sera is the only character that you decide to recruit who had no real political clout that would warrant your advisors arguing to keep them on. Plus you only really get to see just what she is like once you do recruit her. If you object to her views, her attitude, her actions and you feel you cannot live with them, then you might start to regret having taken her on in the first place. Hence the option to tell her to leave. Yes, I see what you mean. I'm not opposed to having it pop up again. It's just that it pops up A LOT. I think they went overboard with it. Don't like Sera as a companion? Well, then don't bring her on missions and don't visit her. Problem solved.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 22, 2017 18:09:36 GMT
I don't think the one additional opportunity to actively boot Sera has anything to do with how polarizing Sera is to players -- how would they even know that before release? I think it's in service to Sera's character versus the template for the Inquisitor, pretty much as gervaise21 detailed. They wanted to respect players steering the Inquisition in a lawful direction, since Sera and the Jennies are decidedly unlawful. From the point of view of the narrative, it would be natural for a lawful KISS Inquisitor to have second thoughts about having a Red Jenny in the inner circle. The Verchiel March encounter brings this particular dilemma to a head.
IIRC, there are only two active options to boot Sera, once on meeting her, once after the Verchiel March encounter. Is there another I'm not remembering?
EDIT: Yes, I found a bunch more. Basically any time you talk to her in Skyhold where disapproval is high enough, you have the option to kick her out. Even if you are part way into a romance with her ... brutal.
That's just one more than Cole, though arguably, I disagree with gerviase21 here. Since Cole represents a similar dilemma -- DEMONS, DEMONS IN THE INQUISITION! -- there should have been a second opportunity to actively boot Cole, either after he mercy knifes the dying soldier in the courtyard, or during the whole Subjected To His Will side quest.
Hmmm ... if you never do the Forgotten Boy quest in Skyhold, does Cole never join the Inquisition? Does he never become a selectable party member? That implicit choice to avoid the quest could be considered as half an opportunity to boot him.
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auronvigo
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Post by auronvigo on Oct 22, 2017 18:11:57 GMT
Here's a thought. You see it constantly because you've never picked it. Everyone is afraid it will lead to her dismissal. Save the game and then pick that option and see where it leads. "You don't fit the Inquisition" could be translated as "You're not like everyone else."
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 22, 2017 18:24:20 GMT
Here's a thought. You see it constantly because you've never picked it. Everyone is afraid it will lead to her dismissal. Save the game and then pick that option and see where it leads. "You don't fit the Inquisition" could be translated as "You're not like everyone else." I'm pretty sure she leaves the Inquisition forever if you make any of those choices. Just like any other choice that causes a companion to leave.
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Oct 22, 2017 19:27:09 GMT
I recruit and keep everyone. But I do leave some of them at Skyhold. Like Viv and Cole.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 22, 2017 19:30:05 GMT
The thing is he only mercy knifes the soldier if you tell him to. If you argue against it, then he respects your opinion (unlike Leliana with the Chantry sister if you haven't softened her), so it would seem strange to boot him out when you have authorised him to take the action.
Likewise, the Subjected to His Will quest since again you have control over the direction it takes. He is acting responsibility in expressing his concern that Corypheus or his henchmen might try to control him so the best way to avoid danger is to continue with the quest rather than boot him out. Then they might still control him and send him against you.
If you don't do the Forgotten Boy quest I assume he never joins the Inquisition. If you do it but tell him to leave, then you will never see him again. It is the same if you do Champions of the Just but when he turns up at Skyhold you reject him. If you don't like having spirits/demons in the Inquisition, then that really is the point at which to tell him to get lost.
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