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Friend of Red Jenny
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18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 20, 2017 23:02:35 GMT
Is Warden considered a title in the same way that Ser is for knights, or is it just an occupation? IIRC when you meet Blackwall, the Inquisitor addresses him as "Warden Blackwall". So... would Carver be Warden Carver? Warden Hawke? Or do they use "Ser" in the same way that templars and knights like Ser Cauthrien do? Would someone address official correspondence to "Warden Loghain" or is it more like... Ser Warden? Messere Warden? Is it like "Officer" in the real world?
I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm trying to get all these terms right.
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Post by ellehaym on Dec 21, 2017 0:00:07 GMT
Being a Warden means that you (should) strip all of your previous titles assuming you have any. With that in mind, "Warden __name__" is probably the right way to address a Gray Warden.
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Friend of Red Jenny
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vertigomez
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August 2016
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 21, 2017 0:37:17 GMT
Being a Warden means that you (should) strip all of your previous titles assuming you have any. With that in mind, "Warden __name__" is probably the right way to address a Gray Warden. Thanks! I was a wee bit confused.
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river82
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July 2017
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Post by river82 on Dec 21, 2017 7:08:53 GMT
Is Warden considered a title in the same way that Ser is for knights, or is it just an occupation? No. While still a title, "sir" is an honorific derived from "sire" which is also an honorific. "Ser" is just the same sort of thing. "Warden" is a title relating to a profession, like "doctor". Both are titles, but they are different kinds of titles
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Nightscrawl
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 21, 2017 14:30:38 GMT
Is Warden considered a title in the same way that Ser is for knights, or is it just an occupation? IIRC when you meet Blackwall, the Inquisitor addresses him as "Warden Blackwall". So... would Carver be Warden Carver? Warden Hawke? Or do they use "Ser" in the same way that templars and knights like Ser Cauthrien do? Would someone address official correspondence to "Warden Loghain" or is it more like... Ser Warden? Messere Warden? Is it like "Officer" in the real world? I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm trying to get all these terms right. From all instances I've seen of its use -- there have been several over three games and ancillary materials -- with NPCs (omitting our own Warden, as it's used as a device to omit the player-chosen name) it is a title, yes. However, I've also gotten the feeling that "ser" is divorced from knighthood specifically and is used as a general honorific in Ferelden, like "serah" and "meserre" in the Free Marches. I can't remember the exact instance at the moment, but there is a scene in DAO where an NPC is addressing someone as "ser knight." I think there might also be a "ser mage" in there somewhere (not 100% certain).
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Tripping through time
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Post by Curious Crow on Dec 21, 2017 14:39:21 GMT
However, I've also gotten the feeling that "ser" is divorced from knighthood specifically and is used as a general honorific in Ferelden, like "serah" and "meserre" in the Free Marches. I can't remember the exact instance at the moment, but there is a scene in DAO where an NPC is addressing someone as "ser knight." I think there might also be a "ser mage" in there somewhere (not 100% certain). Alistair calls the grumpy mage: Ser Mage. So that's one instance. Also Mhairi calls Anders "ser mage" if he becomes a warden.
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Friend of Red Jenny
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 21, 2017 16:20:01 GMT
I'm 99% sure I've heard "Ser Dwarf" as well, so maybe it's just a polite way to address someone if you don't know their name, so you get Ser Knight, Ser Mage, etc.
Titles in this series are weird, anyway. "Arl Eamon" uses his first name, "Arl Howe" uses his surname...
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The Good Drow
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6,800
Gilli
Stuck in the Forgotten Realms
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August 2016
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Post by Gilli on Dec 21, 2017 18:34:23 GMT
Don't forget "Ser Ruth" the Warden in DAI you can judge.
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http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 22, 2017 9:52:49 GMT
Titles in this series are weird, anyway. "Arl Eamon" uses his first name, "Arl Howe" uses his surname... It's probably a matter of which sounds best. In A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones), Ned was addressed as "Lord Stark", but Tywin Lannister was addressed as Lord Tywin, even though they were ostensibly the same "rank". I think as long you didn't call them "Hey, you!", you're probably fine.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 22, 2017 15:08:29 GMT
In A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones), Ned was addressed as "Lord Stark", but Tywin Lannister was addressed as Lord Tywin, even though they were ostensibly the same "rank". In fiction, yes, and I agree it works and sounds better, but I'm wondering how it was/is done in real life. Practically, the only reason I can see this being done is if there are several members of the family where using the name would only be confusing. Keeping with Game of Thrones, we would have Tywin Lannister and his brother Kevan, who would both be Lord Lannister. In their case, Tywin is the head of the family, so it would make sense to refer to him as Lannister, while all of the other males in the family are their given names. Ned Stark is sometimes referred to as Lord Eddard, but outside of that, he's the head of the family, his brother is in the Night's Watch, and all of his children are young, so it makes sense to just use Stark for him. Back to Dragon Age, that doesn't really work, at least with Ferelden titles, since there are more that just the singular "lord." Arl Eamon is arl, while is brother is a bann, so there wouldn't be any confusion in referring to Arl Guerin and Bann Guerin. The only thing I can think of is that, among the currently living people that were around for the rebellion, their father is known and respected forever as Arl Guerin, so the sons using their first name is in deference to that. Of course... when you consider that specific example, it's more likely that it was done to avoid confusion for the player, which makes sense. To close, I think the choosing of whether or not a particular title goes with a person's family or given name is down to several factors: audio aesthetics, clarity of information for the audience, and perhaps even writer preference.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Dec 23, 2017 2:18:39 GMT
Is Warden considered a title in the same way that Ser is for knights, or is it just an occupation? IIRC when you meet Blackwall, the Inquisitor addresses him as "Warden Blackwall". So... would Carver be Warden Carver? Warden Hawke? Or do they use "Ser" in the same way that templars and knights like Ser Cauthrien do? Would someone address official correspondence to "Warden Loghain" or is it more like... Ser Warden? Messere Warden? Is it like "Officer" in the real world? I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm trying to get all these terms right. I think it's a little of both. There are ranks within the Grey Wardens: Warden-Recruit (for anyone who hasn't undertaken the Joining yet) Warden Constable, Warden Commander, High Constable, etc. "Warden" seems to be a catch-all for any Grey Warden who survived the joining. I guess it would be a "safe" title if you know they're a Warden, but don't know what specific rank they may have.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2017 6:37:06 GMT
In A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones), Ned was addressed as "Lord Stark", but Tywin Lannister was addressed as Lord Tywin, even though they were ostensibly the same "rank". In fiction, yes, and I agree it works and sounds better, but I'm wondering how it was/is done in real life. It's incredibly complicated for a number of reasons. For example, consider the British Royal family had no surname before 1917, they had a first name and the House they belonged to. So they were addressed by first name - King Edward or King Henry or His Majesty Henry of such and such. In other European cultures there's a Nobiliary particle used in a surname to denote that person is royalty, and it was a great privilege to have. I would assume that it would be customary to address them using that particle (and therefore surname) as a recognition of that rank - Lord Von der lippe. Long story short, it would depend on culture I believe.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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26,678
gervaise21
10,797
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2017 15:28:34 GMT
World of Thedas gives some information on how you should address nobles in Ferelden and Orlais:
In Ferelden an Arl (Arlessa), Bann, Lord (Lady) are all addressed as My Lord/Lady, whilst a Knight is addressed as Ser.
In Orlais a Comte (Comtess) and Baron (Baroness) are referred to as Your Lordship/Ladyship, whilst an actual Lord/Lady is referred to as Monsieur/Madame and a Chevalier (Dame) - their equivalent of a Knight - is referred to as Ser.
It also says that all rank and file wardens take the title of Warden. The next rank up is known as Warden-Lieutenant in Orlais but is just a senior Warden elsewhere.
So how it is viewed likely depends on where you are in Thedas but it does seem that for the rank and file who has become a warden is known and addressed everywhere as Warden xxxxx to distinguish them from other titles and military ranks.
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Champion of Kirkwall
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8,023
Sifr
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Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Dec 25, 2017 11:04:21 GMT
I'm 99% sure I've heard "Ser Dwarf" as well, so maybe it's just a polite way to address someone if you don't know their name, so you get Ser Knight, Ser Mage, etc. Titles in this series are weird, anyway. "Arl Eamon" uses his first name, "Arl Howe" uses his surname... Leandra Hawke referred to Bartrand as "Ser Dwarf" before the Deep Roads Expedition, presumably because she was trying to be polite (she was interrupting him after all) and because she was unfamiliar with Dwarven culture to know what his actual rank/station was. (Head of House Tethras and a Deshyr in the Dwarven Merchant's Guild, for those curious). I've always assumed the inconsistency with nobles being referred to by first/last names could be down to personal preference on what they're styled as? Some might put more emphasis on their familiar name (especially if it has status) while others might elect to use their given name instead or to prevent confusion (if a run of bad luck leads to several Arl so-and-so's dying in a row). That Arl Howe is almost universally referred to by his last name and not "Rendon", even by some of his closest friends like the Couslands, makes me wonder if he simply didn't like his first name? Or it was a sign of his relative unpopularity or prickly demeanour that even his friends weren't allowed to be on a first name basis with him? I suppose Teyrn Cousland not calling Howe by his first name could be due to the differences in their respective stations, but he seemed relatively laid back with those kinds of matters of protocol. And the other (lesser) nobles have no issue referring to Teyrn Cousland informally as Bryce several times later in the game, so... who knows the real reason no-one calls Howe by his first name?
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