Sokemis
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Post by Sokemis on Jan 1, 2018 18:00:20 GMT
Are there any descriptions anywhere of what Vir Atish'an (The Way of Peace) actually says?
In Andruil's codex entry, we can see exactly what Vir Tanadhal (Way of the Three Trees) states. I've also seen various shorter "interpretations" for Vir Tanadhal (one example from the wiki: "Fly straight and do not waver. Bend but never break. Together we are stronger than the one." I've used this one for a mage Inquisitor that got Andruil's vallaslin - although she's not a hunter, it's this interpretation that's always given her strength and resolve, it's almost become a mantra for her.)
However, for Vir Atisha'an, all I've been able to find is that it tends to be the opposite of Vir Tanadhal and mostly followed by healers. Are there any more specifics that I'm not finding? Or alternately, what's your interpretation of it?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 1, 2018 19:43:30 GMT
So far as I am aware there is no specific mantra for it, just that it is mostly followed by healers and not as popular as the Vir Tanadhal. I'd be more interested how the Dalish got the idea about it being associated with Sylaise. I realise she is the stay at home Hearthkeeper in their eyes and allegedly concerned herself with domestic pursuits but none of these things seem reflected in what we find in the Temple of Mythal:
Sylaise whose heat rivals Elgar'nan's light. Sylaise, whose temples rival Mythal's cities. Sylaise, whose breath rivals Andruil's spear. Sylaise, whose skill rivals June's craft. Sylaise, whose fire cannot be quenched.
At least with Andruil she is correctly remembered as a hunter, they just forgot the bit about it being a sacrificial hunt. Dirthamen was a god of secrets, Elgar'nan was associated with vengeance, Falon'Din would seem to be a god of the dead (just not a benign one but rather wishing to add to the number of souls needing his "guidance"), Ghilan'nain was connected with many creatures including the Halla and June would seem to have something to do with creating wonders. However, when it came to keeping the peace, that role seemed to be undertaken by Mythal and it was after she was killed that everything went to hell. There seems a definite discrepancy between how Sylaise was perceived in ancient times when compared with Dalish lore. I get the connection between a goddess of unquenchable fire and the hearth but not her being associated with the Way of Peace.
So it is likely something that was largely made up by Dalish Keepers to fill in a gap in their lore and this could explain why there is no specific mantra associated with it.
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Sokemis
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Post by Sokemis on Jan 2, 2018 1:15:54 GMT
I'd be more interested how the Dalish got the idea about it being associated with Sylaise. I realise she is the stay at home Hearthkeeper in their eyes and allegedly concerned herself with domestic pursuits but none of these things seem reflected in what we find in the Temple of Mythal: However, when it came to keeping the peace, that role seemed to be undertaken by Mythal and it was after she was killed that everything went to hell. There seems a definite discrepancy between how Sylaise was perceived in ancient times when compared with Dalish lore. I get the connection between a goddess of unquenchable fire and the hearth but not her being associated with the Way of Peace. So it is likely something that was largely made up by Dalish Keepers to fill in a gap in their lore and this could explain why there is no specific mantra associated with it. I think you're right in that how she was viewed in ancient vs modern times is part of it. She may have been viewed as more important/more widely worshiped than she is among the modern Dalish. Although Mythal may have been the peacekeeper between the Creators, I feel that to the modern Dalish she's viewed more a goddess of protection and justice - neither of which is always peaceful. Sylaise is considered the one that taught the People how to heal, both magically and herbally - which would explain why she/her path is more revered by the healers and midwives of the clan than by the other members. Those that practice the healing and domestic arts (spinning, weaving, art...) are usually viewed as more peaceful than those that hunt, fight, work a forge... I also wonder if like Hestia (I can't help but relate her to Hestia/Vesta from Greek/Roman myth), she was thought to have had a more gentle and calming nature? Although I seem to remember some sort of rivalry between her and the other Creators that lead to fights, so maybe she wasn't quite as peaceful as they remember her to be. As I'm typing this, I've been forming my own thoughts about Vir Atish'an - I don't think The Way of Peace necessarily equals complete pacifism. I think it might be more akin to "The Way of the Open Palm" in Jade Empire (or at least what I remember of it, been a number of years since I've played that one). Try to avoid a fight when possible, seeking out gentler and more diplomatic solutions, striving to be benevolent and helpful - but still being strong without being a pushover.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 2, 2018 9:29:24 GMT
Try to avoid a fight when possible, seeking out gentler and more diplomatic solutions, striving to be benevolent and helpful - but still being strong without being a pushover.
This would seem a possibility except for the fact that Sylaise seems to have been associated with fire which is generally viewed as more destructive and violent. However, it may be seen in a more positive light if you think that fire is often needed for some plants to germinate and, in religion, fire can be seen as cleansing and rejuvenating. So from this you could derive Sylaise's associations with birth and healing.
The Dalish talk of Andruil being somewhat wild (which seems likely true) compared with Sylaise. They also talk of Sylaise singing and making art so it is easy to see how that would be associated with a more peaceful, calming influence. The Grand Sonallium was after all a gift from Sylaise to "clever" June in thanks for a great favour, and this was a work of art so there does seem something to that association with Sylaise. Clearly she also did seem to prefer to use persuasion and probably bribes to get people to do things for her rather than violence and intimidation.
Of course, even if Sylaise was more peaceful and diplomatically inclined, we know that the elven empire was destroyed by war, and ironically so was the Dales, so just as the Vir Atishan is not so popular with modern Dalish, probably this was equally the case towards the end of the empire, which could account for why there is no recollection of what the Vir Atishan actually involved, just that it was associated with Sylaise.
I must admit that I would be interested in learning more about both Sylaise and June. There is clearly more to Sylaise than the Dalish remember and the Temple of Mythal suggested the same was true of June. I do wonder exactly what that great favour was that June did for Sylaise. The gods also do seem to have been regarded as pairs: Elgar'nan and Mythal; Andruil and Ghilan'nain, Dirthamen and Falon'Din so that would leave Sylaise and June. They were also regarded as the youngest of the gods before Ghilan'nain was elevated to their ranks, quite possibly because Andruil felt she needed an ally or simply because she was "beloved".
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Post by ellehaym on Jan 9, 2018 18:45:19 GMT
I am not sure how closely related it is but Solas has this to say:
Assuming that Vir Atish'an is involved in the healing arts (could be physical, emotional, spiritual healing?) then it does seem to be a difficult path to follow as the person needs to know and accept other's pain in order to heal them.
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 9, 2018 18:53:37 GMT
Given the odd way that ancient sources describe Sylaise, I’m assuming the “Way of Peace” is the elf equivalent of “speak softly and carry a big stick”.
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Post by theascendent on Jan 9, 2018 23:16:52 GMT
Peace? Is that still a thing? Takes all types I guess.
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