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Post by dklpep on Jan 3, 2018 18:03:19 GMT
Im not a dragon age lore master tho... Just have a few questions for some people who know the lore better than me. I’ve been wondering about the next dragon age because I’m currently replaying inquisition for about my 8th play through. I didn’t really enjoy Da 1 or 2 so I don’t know the lore that well from those games. Ok so as of the end of DA Inquisition there have been 5 blights, the most recent one being in DA Origins. Grey Wardens always deal with the Blights, but in inquisition we see the Wardens aren’t what they used to be... and almost everyone who played DAi sacrifices the Warden instead of Hawke, so they have no leader... so my question is what happens when the next blight starts and the Wardens aren’t around to deal with it? Has this happened during previous blights? Would anyone else be able to stop it? I know you need a warden to stop a blight so what other options are there.
I’m currently playing inquisition, and I finally got the DLC for it, so if there are any spoilers from the dlc in your answer, please try to minimize and at least not let me know that they’re from the dlc.
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Post by fylimar on Jan 3, 2018 18:14:56 GMT
Im not a dragon age lore master tho... Just have a few questions for some people who know the lore better than me. I’ve been wondering about the next dragon age because I’m currently replaying inquisition for about my 8th play through. I didn’t really enjoy Da 1 or 2 so I don’t know the lore that well from those games. Ok so as of the end of DA Inquisition there have been 5 blights, the most recent one being in DA Origins. Grey Wardens always deal with the Blights, but in inquisition we see the Wardens aren’t what they used to be... and almost everyone who played DAi sacrifices the Warden instead of Hawke, so they have no leader... so my question is what happens when the next blight starts and the Wardens aren’t around to deal with it? Has this happened during previous blights? Would anyone else be able to stop it? I know you need a warden to stop a blight so what other options are there. I’m currently playing inquisition, and I finally got the DLC for it, so if there are any spoilers from the dlc in your answer, please try to minimize and at least not let me know that they’re from the dlc. NO DLC spoilers: The warden contact, that could be left in the fade, is not the leader of all grey wardens. He is a high ranking warden commander, but not the only one by far. And the wardens in DAI, that are infuenced by Cory, are mostly from Orlais and Ferelden, so even if the inquisitor sends the wardens away, they are still around. Their headquarter is Weisshaupt, which is far from Ferelden and Orlais. There are rumours about trouble there, but even so, there are wardens all over Thedas and by the time, the next Blight might occur, the current troubles might be gone. The troubles in the warden ranks might be the topic of another game or book, but I think, as long as someone survives, who knows how to do the warden ritual, there is still hope.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Jan 3, 2018 18:16:09 GMT
Im not a dragon age lore master tho... Just have a few questions for some people who know the lore better than me. I’ve been wondering about the next dragon age because I’m currently replaying inquisition for about my 8th play through. I didn’t really enjoy Da 1 or 2 so I don’t know the lore that well from those games. Ok so as of the end of DA Inquisition there have been 5 blights, the most recent one being in DA Origins. Grey Wardens always deal with the Blights, but in inquisition we see the Wardens aren’t what they used to be... and almost everyone who played DAi sacrifices the Warden instead of Hawke, so they have no leader... so my question is what happens when the next blight starts and the Wardens aren’t around to deal with it? Has this happened during previous blights? Would anyone else be able to stop it? I know you need a warden to stop a blight so what other options are there. I’m currently playing inquisition, and I finally got the DLC for it, so if there are any spoilers from the dlc in your answer, please try to minimize and at least not let me know that they’re from the dlc. The Wardens have a leader, First Warden. What we see in DAI is just the Orlesian Wardens. The largest mass of wardens are at Weisshaupt, their headquarters where the First Warden is stationed. As long as someone(doesn't even have to be a Warden) who knows Darkspawn blood is needed and the magic ritual to make it into what Wardens ingest to become Grey Wardens there isn't much worry, other then making sure a Grey Warden delivers the death blow.
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Post by Pokemario on Jan 3, 2018 18:16:35 GMT
The only known way to stop a Blight is to have a Grey Warden kill the Archdemon. If anyone else kills it, it comes back to life.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 3, 2018 18:26:58 GMT
Im not a dragon age lore master tho... Just have a few questions for some people who know the lore better than me. I’ve been wondering about the next dragon age because I’m currently replaying inquisition for about my 8th play through. I didn’t really enjoy Da 1 or 2 so I don’t know the lore that well from those games. Ok so as of the end of DA Inquisition there have been 5 blights, the most recent one being in DA Origins. Grey Wardens always deal with the Blights, but in inquisition we see the Wardens aren’t what they used to be... and almost everyone who played DAi sacrifices the Warden instead of Hawke, so they have no leader.. . so my question is what happens when the next blight starts and the Wardens aren’t around to deal with it? Has this happened during previous blights? Would anyone else be able to stop it? I know you need a warden to stop a blight so what other options are there. I’m currently playing inquisition, and I finally got the DLC for it, so if there are any spoilers from the dlc in your answer, please try to minimize and at least not let me know that they’re from the dlc. Well, there were no Wardens around when the First Blight started. That one lasted over a hundred years and devastated the Tevinter Imperium before they figured out how to create Wardens But as others have stated, the Wardens in DAI are just the ones from Ferelden and Orlais. They are not numerous, but there are at least a few in every nation. And their headquarters is in Weisshaupt in the Anderfels, where the First Warden is. Of course, even when all the Old Gods/archdemons are dead, that won't stop the darkspawn threat...
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 3, 2018 19:15:08 GMT
The plot concerning the Wardens in DAI was a bit of a mess. It was said that the Wardens panicked because they were hearing the Calling and were afraid that if they all succumbed there would be no one around to deal with the next Blight. So they decided it would be a good idea to pre-empt the whole thing and head off looking for the remaining two arch-demons and kill them while still in the Deep Roads. However, this did make it seem as though all Wardens were affected instead of just the ones in Orlais and possibly part of Ferelden. Then at the end of DAI, if you banished the Wardens, it was said that they went into decline across the entirety of Thedas.
Of course this was all nonsense, as confirmed in the novel The Last Flight. Up in Weishauppt they were wondering why they hadn't received the periodic report from Clarel but apart from that it was business as usual. They even received a request from the Wardens at Vigil's Keep which suggested that everything there was normal as well. None of the Wardens in the novel were acting oddly or hearing a premature Calling. Too many nations owe their survival to the Wardens for them to just reject them out of hand.
In World of Thedas the First Warden is said to be getting rather too interested in the politics of the Anderfels and this has led to a deterioration in communications across Thedas, although this would seem to be contradicted by the contact being maintained in the novel and the co-operation between Weishauppt and the monarch of Ferelden in Awakening. If Leliana and Josephine can keep in contact with their agents across the length of Thedas up as far as Qarinus, why cannot the Wardens do so as well?
So essentially, in order to have the Warden plot in DAI, the writers pretty much ignored what they had established in previous games and what would be revealed in a later novel. Then in Trespasser DLC they even seem to ignore the conflict they set up in Warden ranks at the end of DAI. If you spare Hawke, whilst at the Council Varric says he hasn't heard from them (in 2 years?) in the epilogue Hawke is apparently back in Kirkwall safe and sound with no mention of what happened in the Anderfels or why they were away so long.
It may be that the Warden conflict will form a plot in a future game and this is why nothing was said about it in Trespasser but it is equally possible it will be quietly forgotten. As for who will deal with future Blights, I have a feeling that the actions of a certain elf may render such a question moot.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 3, 2018 19:23:21 GMT
Grey Wardens always deal with the Blights, but in inquisition we see the Wardens aren’t what they used to be... and almost everyone who played DAi sacrifices the Warden instead of Hawke, so they have no leader... so my question is what happens when the next blight starts and the Wardens aren’t around to deal with it? You just summed up what is probably the No. 1 reason players choose to keep the Wardens around after Here Lies the Abyss. What happens if there is another Blight? While people may scoff at the Wardens or complain they do more harm than good, no one has put forward a better solution to battling the darkspawn than pointing a Grey Warden at the Archdemon.
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Lost in bosom, consumed by abs.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by yeah rip on Jan 3, 2018 19:30:41 GMT
The plot concerning the Wardens in DAI was a bit of a mess. It was said that the Wardens panicked because they were hearing the Calling and were afraid that if they all succumbed there would be no one around to deal with the next Blight. So they decided it would be a good idea to pre-empt the whole thing and head off looking for the remaining two arch-demons and kill them while still in the Deep Roads. However, this did make it seem as though all Wardens were affected instead of just the ones in Orlais and possibly part of Ferelden. Then at the end of DAI, if you banished the Wardens, it was said that they went into decline across the entirety of Thedas. Of course this was all nonsense, as confirmed in the novel The Last Flight. Up in Weishauppt they were wondering why they hadn't received the periodic report from Clarel but apart from that it was business as usual. They even received a request from the Wardens at Vigil's Keep which suggested that everything there was normal as well. None of the Wardens in the novel were acting oddly or hearing a premature Calling. Too many nations owe their survival to the Wardens for them to just reject them out of hand. In World of Thedas the First Warden is said to be getting rather too interested in the politics of the Anderfels and this has led to a deterioration in communications across Thedas, although this would seem to be contradicted by the contact being maintained in the novel and the co-operation between Weishauppt and the monarch of Ferelden in Awakening. If Leliana and Josephine can keep in contact with their agents across the length of Thedas up as far as Qarinus, why cannot the Wardens do so as well? So essentially, in order to have the Warden plot in DAI, the writers pretty much ignored what they had established in previous games and what would be revealed in a later novel. Then in Trespasser DLC they even seem to ignore the conflict they set up in Warden ranks at the end of DAI. If you spare Hawke, whilst at the Council Varric says he hasn't heard from them (in 2 years?) in the epilogue Hawke is apparently back in Kirkwall safe and sound with no mention of what happened in the Anderfels or why they were away so long. It may be that the Warden conflict will form a plot in a future game and this is why nothing was said about it in Trespasser but it is equally possible it will be quietly forgotten. As for who will deal with future Blights, I have a feeling that the actions of a certain elf may render such a question moot. This just tells me that the writers can't keep track of their own lore, or don't even know where they're going with it, aside from the Solas thing. The quest's writing was crap tbh. Not a single warden thought there was something off with all of them hearing the calling? Right.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 3, 2018 19:38:52 GMT
Well, even if they're suspicious about the fact they're all hearing the Calling, what are they going to do about it?
Let's say the Wardens assume that someone is creating a false Calling, so they start a massive search for whoever is creating it. What happens if, during this fruitless search, the Calling actually turned out to be real and all the Wardens in the south turn into ghouls en masse? Then who's going to protect Thedas?
It's easy to condemn the Wardens for acting rashly, but we're not the ones hearing the song of the Old Gods in our heads, believing that we're about to die soon.
"It just goes to show, people will up and go mad when they think their life is over." -The Walking Dead
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 3, 2018 19:43:06 GMT
You just summed up what is probably the No. 1 reason players choose to keep the Wardens around after Here Lies the Abyss. What happens if there is another Blight? I, like many people, took that to be a temporary ban only until Corypheus had been dealt with for the sake of the Wardens as much as anything else. Given how he was meant to have got inside their heads and what was implied in the choice, it seemed too risky to keep them in close proximity to him. However, I fully intended that once he was out of the way, the Wardens would return. Subsequent events and the epilogue short changed us. It turned out that there were no adverse consequences from Corypheus to keeping the Wardens with the Inquisition either in the main story or the War Table missions associated with them. So the what was implied in the choices was an outright deception on the part of the writers. Then they punished the sensible choice by having everyone shun the Wardens and have them go into decline across Thedas, which was arrant nonsense. To be honest I hate the Warden plotline in DAI because it is so contrived and the fact that it ignores everything I did as Warden Commander of Ferelden in Awakening. Clarel had no business controlling things in Ferelden or hunting down Hawke's Warden contact there. She had control of the Wardens in Orlais and nothing else. The letter from her to Teagan asking for admission also ignored the events of Awakening and in fact even the actions of the Hero of Ferelden in the 5th Blight. It is also contradicted by the novel.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 3, 2018 19:50:42 GMT
Whereas I understood the decision at the end of HLTA to be a permanent exile from southern Thedas.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 3, 2018 22:05:31 GMT
permanent exile from southern Thedas. If that was the case then why did they mention the danger presented by Corypheus in the choice? It clearly implied the reason you were banishing them was because of the danger he represented to them, not simply because they had been idiots. In my case I had persuaded the non-mage Wardens to stand down but it still seemed wise for all the Wardens to leave while we dealt with Corypheus. It was a specific solution to a unique situation. Why would the ordinary people of Orlais and Ferelden accept it anyway, particularly the latter? The Hero of Ferelden was a Warden. There is a giant statue of a gryphon in Redcliffe Village honouring the efforts of the Grey Wardens in the 5th Blight. Much of the country was still meant to be recovering from it, so it was clear how much worse it could have been without the Wardens. If the 5th Blight hadn't happened then it was understandable as it had been so many years since the previous one but that was not the case. In any case once the Inquisition was disbanded/cut down in size, then what was to stop the Wardens from returning? Clearly the rulers felt the Inquisition had become too powerful. May be they would also wish to reverse some of its more controversial decisions.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 4, 2018 2:19:54 GMT
Grey Wardens always deal with the Blights, but in inquisition we see the Wardens aren’t what they used to be... and almost everyone who played DAi sacrifices the Warden instead of Hawke, so they have no leader... so my question is what happens when the next blight starts and the Wardens aren’t around to deal with it? Has this happened during previous blights? Would anyone else be able to stop it? I know you need a warden to stop a blight so what other options are there. You don't really need the Grey Wardens as an organization to fight the Blights. Both the darkspawn, and the Archdemon that leads them, can be brought down with normal physical and magical attacks. The reason wardens are "needed" is to strike the final killing blow to the Archdemon. Any group of fighters can get it to near death, but only a grey warden can truly kill it, thus ending the Blight. This is how it works. When an Archdemon dies, it does a soul hop, like Corypheus is able to do. Its soul seeks out the nearest tainted creature. A darkspawn is a soulless vessel, so the Archdmeon's soul can take residence and survive and keep the Blight going. If a grey warden is there to strike the final killing blow, the nearest tainted creature will be that grey warden. But a grey warden is not a soulless vessel. When the Archdemon hops into the grey warden, there is a conflict between the two souls, which has the result of killing that grey warden and the Archdemon along with him/her, thus ending the Blight. In theory, a massive army can bring down the Archdemon, keeping whatever grey warden off to the side in safety, only bringing them out into the battle when it's time to strike the killing blow. In that case, you would only need a singe grey warden. The mechanics of the Dark Ritual made it work differently, of course, but this is how it's normally done. Aside from that, the Grey Wardens are a highly skilled, trained, and prepared army, which offers the same benefit as any such professional army, such as the Chevaliers, the Templars, or even Tevinter's martial forces. Most nations in times like this do not have large permanent standing forces (some, yes, but not massive ones). When there is some war or other, they recruit from the local populace, which we saw in DAO. So the Grey Wardens have the advantage of being a professional army that is always ready to go to work, which is another bonus of having them around.
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Post by dklpep on Jan 4, 2018 3:08:38 GMT
I’ve always assumed the next blight would be the worst of them all. I’m imagining almost a “days of future past” type situation. The blight comes but not enough Wardens around to stop it so the darkspawn decimate the world and our hero’s are forced into hiding or killed.. The inquisitor, Hawke and a few survivors in hiding somewhere.... but now it seems the Wardens aren’t in as bad of shape as I thought they where.
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Lost in bosom, consumed by abs.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
Posts: 920 Likes: 3,213
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Post by yeah rip on Jan 4, 2018 6:12:20 GMT
I hate the Warden storyline too. The whole premise was just "we need to have a ~tough choice~ regarding Wardens, and because lots of player are attached to them, we need to make them do something 'morally ambiguous' to really make it ~tough". Well, even if they're suspicious about the fact they're all hearing the Calling, what are they going to do about it? Let's say the Wardens assume that someone is creating a false Calling, so they start a massive search for whoever is creating it. What happens if, during this fruitless search, the Calling actually turned out to be real and all the Wardens in the south turn into ghouls en masse? Then who's going to protect Thedas? It's easy to condemn the Wardens for acting rashly, but we're not the ones hearing the song of the Old Gods in our heads, believing that we're about to die soon. "It just goes to show, people will up and go mad when they think their life is over." -The Walking Dead Well, they could at least not summon a demon army Always loved that quote btw. On the subject of exiling Wardens - I also assumed it meant permanently and IIRC, the epilogue slides support it (the way they presented the whole thing was kinda vague tbh). Which begs the question - what gives Inquisitor the authority to decide the Wardens' fate? Shouldn't it be up to the First Warden? Or whoever rules Orlais, since as the whole mess took place in their territory? It's ridiculous how much power the Inquisition gets so quickly and honestly, (mild Trespasser spoiler) I can't really blame Eamon for wanting it gone. Grey Wardens always deal with the Blights, but in inquisition we see the Wardens aren’t what they used to be... and almost everyone who played DAi sacrifices the Warden instead of Hawke, so they have no leader... so my question is what happens when the next blight starts and the Wardens aren’t around to deal with it? Has this happened during previous blights? Would anyone else be able to stop it? I know you need a warden to stop a blight so what other options are there. You don't really need the Grey Wardens as an organization to fight the Blights. Both the darkspawn, and the Archdemon that leads them, can be brought down with normal physical and magical attacks. The reason wardens are "needed" is to strike the final killing blow to the Archdemon. Any group of fighters can get it to near death, but only a grey warden can truly kill it, thus ending the Blight. This is how it works. When an Archdemon dies, it does a soul hop, like Corypheus is able to do. Its soul seeks out the nearest tainted creature. A darkspawn is a soulless vessel, so the Archdmeon's soul can take residence and survive and keep the Blight going. If a grey warden is there to strike the final killing blow, the nearest tainted creature will be that grey warden. But a grey warden is not a soulless vessel. When the Archdemon hops into the grey warden, there is a conflict between the two souls, which has the result of killing that grey warden and the Archdemon along with him/her, thus ending the Blight. In theory, a massive army can bring down the Archdemon, keeping whatever grey warden off to the side in safety, only bringing them out into the battle when it's time to strike the killing blow. In that case, you would only need a singe grey warden. The mechanics of the Dark Ritual made it work differently, of course, but this is how it's normally done. Aside from that, the Grey Wardens are a highly skilled, trained, and prepared army, which offers the same benefit as any such professional army, such as the Chevaliers, the Templars, or even Tevinter's martial forces. Most nations in times like this do not have large permanent standing forces (some, yes, but not massive ones). When there is some war or other, they recruit from the local populace, which we saw in DAO. So the Grey Wardens have the advantage of being a professional army that is always ready to go to work, which is another bonus of having them around. Sounds neat in theory, but it would need a miracle to work in practice. Too many things could go wrong in this scenario. I’ve always assumed the next blight would be the worst of them all. I’m imagining almost a “days of future past” type situation. The blight comes but not enough Wardens around to stop it so the darkspawn decimate the world and our hero’s are forced into hiding or killed.. The inquisitor, Hawke and a few survivors in hiding somewhere.... but now it seems the Wardens aren’t in as bad of shape as I thought they where. Considering that the Blights have been getting progressively shorter, the next blight could actually be the quickest one But considering that the overall situation in Thedas is about to become FUBAR, it may very well be the worst. Haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure there were some ominous hints in the game, something to do with Darkspawn or the Archdemons or whatever. Can't remember, maybe it was nothing. But anyway, Thedas has to survive Solas first.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 4, 2018 8:01:39 GMT
Well, if you take the darkspawn magister out of the equation, the demon army is a good idea in theory.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 4, 2018 8:41:23 GMT
Well, if you take the darkspawn magister out of the equation, the demon army is a good idea in theory. Why? A demon army needs controlling. Once all the Grey Wardens are dead then there is no one to control them. The whole reasoning of the Wardens was that they couldn't reach the archdemons on their own because of the huge numbers of darkspawn in the way. There was no guarantee that the Wardens wouldn't all die or succumb to their supposed Calling before they reached them and then the demons would just suit themselves. If it was a good idea then surely the Wardens would have done exactly that before now? Apparently they have always known where the Old Gods were, just couldn't reach them. Clearly when Wardens are thinking straight they realise how impossible such a venture would be. Plus, of course, we have the thoughts of Solas on the matter. He knows something and I'm pretty sure his objection to the plan had nothing to do with the use of blood magic or concern for the welfare of the Old Gods. He as good as hinted to Blackwall that killing the last two Old Gods/arch-demons would only make things worse. That dwarf in the Descent had the better idea. Forget the arch-demons and concentrate of finding the broodmothers. Kill them and there are no more darkspawn. Mind you I'm pretty sure there is an Alpha Broodmother somewhere, heavily guarded and the origin of the original plague.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 4, 2018 9:02:56 GMT
The plot concerning the Wardens in DAI was a bit of a mess. It was said that the Wardens panicked because they were hearing the Calling and were afraid that if they all succumbed there would be no one around to deal with the next Blight. So they decided it would be a good idea to pre-empt the whole thing and head off looking for the remaining two arch-demons and kill them while still in the Deep Roads. However, this did make it seem as though all Wardens were affected instead of just the ones in Orlais and possibly part of Ferelden. Then at the end of DAI, if you banished the Wardens, it was said that they went into decline across the entirety of Thedas. Of course this was all nonsense, as confirmed in the novel The Last Flight. Up in Weishauppt they were wondering why they hadn't received the periodic report from Clarel but apart from that it was business as usual. They even received a request from the Wardens at Vigil's Keep which suggested that everything there was normal as well. None of the Wardens in the novel were acting oddly or hearing a premature Calling. Too many nations owe their survival to the Wardens for them to just reject them out of hand. In World of Thedas the First Warden is said to be getting rather too interested in the politics of the Anderfels and this has led to a deterioration in communications across Thedas, although this would seem to be contradicted by the contact being maintained in the novel and the co-operation between Weishauppt and the monarch of Ferelden in Awakening. If Leliana and Josephine can keep in contact with their agents across the length of Thedas up as far as Qarinus, why cannot the Wardens do so as well? So essentially, in order to have the Warden plot in DAI, the writers pretty much ignored what they had established in previous games and what would be revealed in a later novel. Then in Trespasser DLC they even seem to ignore the conflict they set up in Warden ranks at the end of DAI. If you spare Hawke, whilst at the Council Varric says he hasn't heard from them (in 2 years?) in the epilogue Hawke is apparently back in Kirkwall safe and sound with no mention of what happened in the Anderfels or why they were away so long. It may be that the Warden conflict will form a plot in a future game and this is why nothing was said about it in Trespasser but it is equally possible it will be quietly forgotten. As for who will deal with future Blights, I have a feeling that the actions of a certain elf may render such a question moot. This just tells me that the writers can't keep track of their own lore, or don't even know where they're going with it, aside from the Solas thing. The quest's writing was crap tbh. Not a single warden thought there was something off with all of them hearing the calling? Right. Don't remind me of that horrible trespasser epilogue. Felt completely lazy shoehorning all live Hawke's back to Kirkwall.
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 4, 2018 14:41:30 GMT
Well, if you take the darkspawn magister out of the equation, the demon army is a good idea in theory. Why? A demon army needs controlling. Once all the Grey Wardens are dead then there is no one to control them. The whole reasoning of the Wardens was that they couldn't reach the archdemons on their own because of the huge numbers of darkspawn in the way. There was no guarantee that the Wardens wouldn't all die or succumb to their supposed Calling before they reached them and then the demons would just suit themselves. If it was a good idea then surely the Wardens would have done exactly that before now? Apparently they have always known where the Old Gods were, just couldn't reach them. Clearly when Wardens are thinking straight they realise how impossible such a venture would be. Maybe the Nightmare muddied the waters by erasing the (completely rational) fears that would normally arise during such a scheme. Nightmares don’t create fears out of nothing, they trade rational fears for irrational ones. “I’m afraid that I’m bad at my job” becomes “I’m afraid I’ll somehow show up to work naked”. Not only does the person gain a fake fear, the real fear is now disguised and may not get addressed. This also seems to be how the Nightmare works in game. He talks more about erasing fears than creating them, but we never actually see him erase fears... unless it’s part of his manipulation of the Wardens. He steals their rational, but hard-to-address fear - “what happens when all the old gods are dead?”, and turns it into an irrational, but easier-to-deal-with nightmare - “what if we die out before all the old gods are dead?”
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Post by yeah rip on Jan 4, 2018 15:50:34 GMT
wright1978 I hate that the game speaks for our characters. My Hawke wouldn't even accept the position of Viscount. She would help clean up after the Chantry explosion then grab Fenris and get as far away from Kirkwall as possible. Well, if you take the darkspawn magister out of the equation, the demon army is a good idea in theory. Why? A demon army needs controlling. Once all the Grey Wardens are dead then there is no one to control them. The whole reasoning of the Wardens was that they couldn't reach the archdemons on their own because of the huge numbers of darkspawn in the way. There was no guarantee that the Wardens wouldn't all die or succumb to their supposed Calling before they reached them and then the demons would just suit themselves. If it was a good idea then surely the Wardens would have done exactly that before now? Apparently they have always known where the Old Gods were, just couldn't reach them. Clearly when Wardens are thinking straight they realise how impossible such a venture would be. Plus, of course, we have the thoughts of Solas on the matter. He knows something and I'm pretty sure his objection to the plan had nothing to do with the use of blood magic or concern for the welfare of the Old Gods. He as good as hinted to Blackwall that killing the last two Old Gods/arch-demons would only make things worse. That dwarf in the Descent had the better idea. Forget the arch-demons and concentrate of finding the broodmothers. Kill them and there are no more darkspawn. Mind you I'm pretty sure there is an Alpha Broodmother somewhere, heavily guarded and the origin of the original plague. Honestly, all things considered, the fact that Solas doesn't like it only makes me want to do it more. I never trusted him, even before Trespasser. Killing Broodmothers is a good idea, but darkspawn can always make more of them. Hunting them down is a good way to keep the darkspawn numbers under control, but it won't prevent Blights, and I'm sure there are some Broodmothers/darkspawn lairs beyond the reach of Wardens or the Legion. I'm not sure about the Alpha Broodmother. If I'm not mistaken, Darkspawn are a byproduct of the taint, not the origin. Broodmothers are just female darkspawn. I'm pretty sure it didn't start with them.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 4, 2018 15:54:41 GMT
I’ve always assumed the next blight would be the worst of them all. I’m imagining almost a “days of future past” type situation. The blight comes but not enough Wardens around to stop it so the darkspawn decimate the world and our hero’s are forced into hiding or killed.. The inquisitor, Hawke and a few survivors in hiding somewhere.... but now it seems the Wardens aren’t in as bad of shape as I thought they where. Hey the last Blight was ended with only three Wardens
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Post by Iakus on Jan 4, 2018 16:01:52 GMT
I hate that the game speaks for our characters. My Hawke wouldn't even accept the position of Viscount. She would help clean up after the Chantry explosion then grab Fenris and get as far away from it as possible. Why? A demon army needs controlling. Once all the Grey Wardens are dead then there is no one to control them. The whole reasoning of the Wardens was that they couldn't reach the archdemons on their own because of the huge numbers of darkspawn in the way. There was no guarantee that the Wardens wouldn't all die or succumb to their supposed Calling before they reached them and then the demons would just suit themselves. If it was a good idea then surely the Wardens would have done exactly that before now? Apparently they have always known where the Old Gods were, just couldn't reach them. Clearly when Wardens are thinking straight they realise how impossible such a venture would be. Plus, of course, we have the thoughts of Solas on the matter. He knows something and I'm pretty sure his objection to the plan had nothing to do with the use of blood magic or concern for the welfare of the Old Gods. He as good as hinted to Blackwall that killing the last two Old Gods/arch-demons would only make things worse. That dwarf in the Descent had the better idea. Forget the arch-demons and concentrate of finding the broodmothers. Kill them and there are no more darkspawn. Mind you I'm pretty sure there is an Alpha Broodmother somewhere, heavily guarded and the origin of the original plague. Honestly, all things considered, the fact that Solas doesn't like it only makes me want to do it more. I never trusted him, even before Trespasser. Killing Broodmothers is a good idea, but darkspawn can always make more of them. Hunting them down is a good way to keep the darkspawn numbers under control, but it won't prevent Blights, and I'm sure there are some Broodmothers/darkspawn lairs beyond the reach of Wardens or the Legion. I'm not sure about the Alpha Broodmother. If I'm not mistaken, Darkspawn are a byproduct of the taint, not the origin. Broodmothers are just female darkspawn. I'm pretty sure it didn't start with them. Broodmothers are technically ghouls. Female ghouls that are so deeply tainted they might as well be darkspawn. Archdemons can focus the darkspawn to a single purpose (as can other powerful darkspawn to a lesser extent) but the real danger of the darkspawn are their sheer NUMBERS. Killing the archdemons will eventually end the Blights as we know them, but the darkspawn will keep breeding, keep growing in numbers until, even directionless, they will overwhelm Thedas.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 4, 2018 16:05:37 GMT
Well, if you take the darkspawn magister out of the equation, the demon army is a good idea in theory. Why? A demon army needs controlling. Once all the Grey Wardens are dead then there is no one to control them. The whole reasoning of the Wardens was that they couldn't reach the archdemons on their own because of the huge numbers of darkspawn in the way. There was no guarantee that the Wardens wouldn't all die or succumb to their supposed Calling before they reached them and then the demons would just suit themselves. Even in a worst case scenario where the Warden mages all died en route to the Old Gods, at worst you’d have an army of demons unleashed in the Deep Roads. Who are they going to attack down there? The darkspawn? That really only helps Thedas. I think Erimond was correct when he said a demon army was the perfect force to fight through the Deep Roads - they require no food or sleep, and they can’t be corrupted by the Blight. That said, no one’s tried it before because no one was that desperate. Even if the ritual didn’t put the Wardens under Corypheus’ control, it still requires dozens and dozens of blood sacrifices.
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Post by Walter Black on Jan 4, 2018 17:35:09 GMT
I really, really hope Bioware does something different with the last Blights, like one of the Old Gods awakening without being tainted and/or a completely different daughter of Flemeth making an OGB of Razikale or Lusacan. Would they still be able to influence the darkspawn? Would they even want to? Maybe the Seeker* and Seranni's** Awakened could play a factor. What would happen if a Titan could be Tainted? Dragon blood has been shown to combat the Taint, what if the Great Dragons rise? Just something, anything different to what has already played out in the lore and the games. * This Seeker being the Awakened Disciple who aided the Architect and manipulated Velanna's clan into near destruction. Since the player only learns of him through codex entries and never has a proper encounter, it was likely he was created as a backup Awakened leader in case the player kills the Architect. **Part of me wonders if the Architect modified Seranni's Taint, or kept it arrested. If the player killed the Architect, would Seranni become a broodmother ? If she was given Grey Warden blood, would that make her a an intelligent ghoul? Part of me would prefer the former to reflect consequences of player choices, while another part of me welcomes the latter as something new.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 4, 2018 18:27:08 GMT
I think the process of making a Broodmother requires ingestion of large amounts of darkspawn blood and consumption of non-darkspawn flesh, so not every female ghoul would become one.
I also think that perhaps Seranni was intended as the new vessel of the Architect. Even if you killed him and Utha, Seranni manages to survive.
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