On the origins of the Qunari

More on topic, this seems unclear to me whether its specifically referring to the Qunari/Kossith or not. I'm inclined to think no at the time being though, if only because it seems to me that the Tevinters wouldn't just...forget about that.

78.media.tumblr.com/fcd991472188de87b0042e8e76b23fe7/tumblr_n69kwvPHwd1tzinejo2_r1_500.gif

For those that don't know, it is more than likely a myth that Moctezuma II believed Cortés to be Quetzacoatl or any kind of divine. There are more evidence to suggest that he did not. For example, he is quoted by Cortés in one of the latter's letters as having said the following: "-and you see that I am of flesh and blood like yourself and everyone else, mortal and tangible."

According to Cortés' accounts as I recall them, there is nothing to suggest from there that the Spanish were treated early on as anything but visiting diplomats. 

With Bull's comment it makes me wonder whether the original race of Qunari (the ones they needed to get away from) were the created version and then somewhere along the lines dragon blood got mixed in and it created the version we're exposed to today?

How does Corypheus know it was a mistake? Old Elven culture was long, long dead when he was around, would mistakes of their god-kings be known to people who casually called them 'rattus'?

Kieran's comment makes me think maybe a form of genocide? Wiping out a people by turning them into something else? War machines via blood magic maybe? We know blood magic can create something like flesh golems for instance.

If this was Tevinter it would have to have taken place a long time ago though, we know the Qunari landed in Par Vollen 6:30 which means they'd had a culture, economy, military, technology, established Qun etc before that and also that they had to have split from the pre-cursor race entirely. A bunch of kossith apparently landed somewhere in the Korcari Wilds -410 which would eventually result in Ogres when the Blight showed up. Which would actually rule out being created by Tevinter since, according to the wiki, they only learned about blood magic in -400. Unless the kossith here mean the pre-cursor race or it's a continuity error. [edit but not really since I haven't posted this yet but more like "here's my thought process" edit]: this is wrong, Tevinter had access to blood magic waaaaaaay before this, got thrown by the dating conventions. 

There are a few consistency and/or lack of info wibbles here. I'm okay with Solas knowing everything, not so much Corypheus. Cory's comments are also kinda specific, like what decay exactly? Are the qunari the mistake or the proto-qunari? Let's say the proto-qunari were around, created by elves maybe, Tevinter sees them as a savage but potentially useful people and tries to mold them this backfires and creates the current-qunari which are less useful cuz they're... too smart? Too organized? How do they wind up across the ocean? Did ancient Tevinter project their power all the way over there? Were the proto-qunari semi-aquatic and all the current qunari just jumped on their backs and swam to their new home? Did Tevinter have nothing to do with it, the proto-qunari were always across the ocean and just liked dabbling with magic too? How does Corypheus know then? Why is it a mistake? Bull mentions in another conversation that they "had to leave" and that the OG kossith didn't look much like them (or something), combined with Solas predisposition to think of Qunari as intrinsically savage and Kieran's comment about feeling bad about what happened to their people (which can have a variety of interpretations tbf) it makes me think something about the proto-qunari was more or less fundamentally broken, like a predisposition to violence or madness or the entire race just got progressively more insane as time went by, if Koslun was one of these OG qunari it would make sense the religion/philosophy he creates has such a heavy emphasis on control and self-mastery. And still where does the decay come in? And does any of this have anything to do with two of the big unsolved mysteries of "The Powers Across the Sea" and the lizard people the dwarves fought in the Deep Roads?

Bluh. 

Okay so I just read Gatsi's interpretation and it's a very interesting perspective ("The perspective of a dwarf, right?"), it feels like a truth universally acknowledged that the only reason Tevinter breached the Golden City was hubris but what if it wasn't? What if they were looking for that additional power or even, possibly, refuge for a reason?

So in 220 TE the Imperium sinks Arlathan which seems kinda extra but w/e supposedly they're an extra kind of people. But let's say before the sinking they crush most of whatever resistance was offered and they explore this elven city, what they find is a people streets ahead of them in terms of understanding and engaging with magic and just generally totally trashing the idea of the superiority of the Imperium. Among the things they learn before they sink it are things like that creating races is a thing. So they sink Arlathan and completely destroy elven culture cuz Tevinter stronk. 

Sometime after this (but before 800 TE) they try their hand at creating a race. It works but something goes wrong (Corypheus' "decay") the resulting race is the OG qunari but they aren't loyal to the Magisters and just generally very prone to violence and murder. These new people wind up in Par Vollen, maybe that's where the base stock came from, maybe they had a war before they settled their, maybe the Magisters just put them there to forget about them. But this race isn't stupid, maybe inherently violent and murderous, but not stupid. They establish a society that features pyramids. They do pretty well for themselves and eventually turn against their creators (shades of Frankenstein all up in this bitch), the Tevinters made a really resilient race and they're losing, this predates the Qun so the proto-qunari are uninterested in assimilation, they're just slaughtering. 

The Magisters are looking for a solution, the Old Gods whisper that "Hey, the Golden City is full of high tier loot or whatever" and they do the thing. This does stop the proto-Qunari, they decide to leave the humans to their shit stew, pack up their things and sail across the sea. The tragedy with them is that they're aware their nature is toxic and anathema to long-lasting stability so they turn to things like rigid religion and breeding programs to mitigate it. The latter winds up being more successful than the former and the modern qunari are born. How? I dunno. It could be dragon blood I guess? Tevinter really likes dragons though, especially back then, so wouldn't that have been their first choice when trying to create a servant race? Or would that be blasphemous? Also, when you look at reaver's dragon blood doesn't seem like it has chillaxing qualities but ~shrug~

Anyway the OG Qunari tell their more well-adjusted offspring to leave and be happy somewhere far away and then maybe eat each other I dunno. 

Tevinter did conquer what remained of the ancient elves though, they just aren't aware that they were just a remnant of what once was.  It's less incorrect history and more just misinformation.

We're the Tevinters responsible, I imagine they'd have some sort of story behind it, like they do the Blights.

OH GOD SO MUCH INFO TO CHEW ON. Thanks for contributing, everyone. Cooperative speculation is one of the greatest things about this forum. Headaches and lulz for everyone.

Based on everything that's been said here, my pet theory is that the ancient elves created the qunari, not Tevinter. Either the Evanuris did it using elven slaves + dragon blood, or kossith + dragon blood (didn't it say that kossith don't resemble the qunari of today? And who knows how many unknown species there are in the wider world of Thedas).

• I think the Evanuris - specifically Ghilan'nain - created them outside the borders of known Thedas
• The presence of these proto-qunari prompted humans to migrate from faraway lands to Thedas in -3100 Ancient
• Koslun founded the Qun to reign in the violent impulses of a people who'd been doped with dragon blood for generations
• The earliest inhabitants of Par Vollen are former elven slaves who know nothing of Ghilan'nain's creation, or they're humans who've forgotten why their ancestors fled their original homeland (that is, to escape the angry dragon people).
• When the enlightened Qunari arrive, the islanders build pyramids and sculptures in their honor and willingly convert to the Qun, probably because the Evanuris were awful (if the inhabitants are elves) or because life is unforgiving for humans in these lands (if they're human).

I suspect the inhabitants were elves just because of the connection to the Solium/Elgar'nan constellation. Perhaps they viewed these Qunari as saviors now that the Veil was formed, and the pyramids were a misguided message to Elgar'nan (vengeance) that the slaves had gotten theirs?

Living weapons to wage war on the dwarves?


dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Chronicles_of_a_Forgotten_War