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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 1, 2018 16:34:06 GMT
"Red Dead Redemption 2 will be out October 26"looks like Anthem ducked a bullet...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mmoblitz on Feb 1, 2018 16:36:03 GMT
Also, after DA:2 there was a huge call for Bioware to incorporate a bigger world, because Origins was big and DA:2 was small, but even at this point I don't remember a call from the majority of players specifically for open world. It's why when Bioware revealed Inquisition they focused on how big the world would be, not that it was open world. I remember. the Skyrim comparisons were nonstop before the game came out. Even without that, forums were chock full of 'imagine if you could go here' people posted on the old social. 'imagine if you could explore this' 'bioware can we go to xxx in the next game?' etc. Nowadays, Open world games are the go-to because a 20-40 something hour single player game is no longer seen as worth 60.00, those are 'wait until the discount' games. Open world games promise lots of hours for your dollar, and that is why consumers have gravitated towards them. If it wasn't for the 'power' system then there would be little to complain about in regards to DA:I. Plus People made fun of the hissing wastes because they went there, ran around for a few minutes and immediately left, while if you stuck around you would find the whole zone was a big puzzle with a lot of lore to be explored and many questions raised that would challenge the way Dwarves run things now. They do open worlds well. But they struggle making fetch quests (which are a part of EVERY game) feel relevant on some personal level. Witcher 3 did a good job with this. Bioware has proven to me that they can't make a SP open world game and maintain the same brilliant story, characters, and dialog that many grew to love in the first couple DA games and the OT. They have tried it twice now and failed both times (imo). DAI wasn't as bad as MEA in that respect, but they were far worse than their predecessors.
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Twitter Guru
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 1, 2018 16:45:03 GMT
"Red Dead Redemption 2 will be out October 26"looks like Anthem ducked a bullet... I have to wonder if EA/BW got an early heads-up on this, which may have provided an additional nudge to postpone the launch.
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Post by river82 on Feb 1, 2018 20:50:30 GMT
Did you know people actually wanted that driving again? I concur the planets were too empty in ME1 but that was the result of shoehorning the game to underpowered (especially from memory side) console. Eh, some people did I guess, like some people don't care for the actual gameplay in these games and just play for the story. That doesn't mean the internet mob just want the story and that Bioware should eradicate all gameplay, though. Because at the end of the day you can find people that want anything (I bet I could find some people that wants a playable character that's part giraffe if I really looked). The problem with the Mako wasn't the underpowered console, it's how Bioware goes about designing exploration these days (as well as the Mako's hilarious concept of physics). It's Bioware being unable to create interesting environments, it's Bioware requiring you to drive up mountains then providing a single and almost impossible to find path, it's Bioware being unable to craft compelling loot or quests (the whole economy in ME1 was broken). Andromeda's exploration was almost as dull. Inquisition's exploration was (at times) really dull. There's a reason Bioware took driving out of Mass Effect 2. These days Bioware does the story aspect really well, so why not concentrate on that? Unfortunately when creating Andromeda someone on the Bioware's team thought "you know, ever since Mass Effect 1 we've neglected the exploration aspect of the game" without remembering why that was and well ...
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Post by river82 on Feb 1, 2018 20:58:32 GMT
"Red Dead Redemption 2 will be out October 26"looks like Anthem ducked a bullet... When so much is riding on the game, they're taking care of every contingency I guess 0.0
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Post by river82 on Feb 1, 2018 21:19:04 GMT
On Bioware and exploration, I want to make a quick point. The most fascinating parts of anything are usually related to people. History is fascinating because it's the story of people, exploration is often fascinating when you're exploring something related to people. So below are some pictures of Skyrim. The third picture is a gorgeous environment, absolutely beautiful, but it doesn't actually encourage exploration. Why? There's nothing to do with people. Compare that to the first 2 pictures which do encourage exploration. Then contrast that below to Andromeda, pictures 4 and 5. Andromeda is empty ... of people. Why would you explore? Find more sand, is that it? With storytelling, with exploration, it's most exciting when it's connected to people. ME1 and Andromeda had the player exploring huge, empty planets, and that's a recipe for dullness.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 1, 2018 21:46:05 GMT
"Red Dead Redemption 2 will be out October 26"looks like Anthem ducked a bullet... Your presuming it will be good. I have doubts on that one... I mean, talk about all the doom and gloom of not seeing footage of Anthem...we barely have any footage of Red Dead Redemption, and it's coming after one of the most successful cash cows in online revenue for Rockstar. It's also re-hashing ideas from GTA V with their heists, basically implying a ripoff of the magnificent seven, and considering Rockstar storytelling it's usually very hit and miss. I'm half expecting them to start selling horse skins for their open world online mode and that getting more press than anything else. I hope i'm wrong.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 1, 2018 22:57:58 GMT
Did you know people actually wanted that driving again? I concur the planets were too empty in ME1 but that was the result of shoehorning the game to underpowered (especially from memory side) console. I really enjoy the Nomad. I think they did a great job in it's creation and the ability to upgrade it as the game went on. I think most people, though, had an issue with the size of the maps that you were required to traverse and negatively associated the time spent driving with the Nomad itself. For example, I remember trying to finish Peebee's companion content to get to her mission and part of that required driving forever on Eladaan to get to a shack to argue with a junk dealer about about re-acquiring POC. By that point, my Nomad was pretty much completely upgraded and it was still a chore. They really needed to shrink the map in almost all cases; you just spent way too much time driving, jet-packing, and running to get to your objectives as opposed to spending most of the time on your objectives. In my opinion, the Nomad was best used on H-047c, where had a small map combined with a unique atmosphere that was never boring. In a similar vein, Havarl was effective because you could move around the map without the Nomad and you really got a feel for using the jetpack in the environment. I think if they could have had exploreable "landing spots" on different planets with environmental hazards that would allow some decently quick driving to complete a mission and changed up the main planets to have most accessible outside of Nomad driving, it could have shaved a lot off the game in terms of padding. I would even say the first part of Eos was an okay size, it didn't feel like a chore to me until the poison cleared up a bit, but I think that original area was about the same size as H-047c.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 1, 2018 22:59:48 GMT
"Red Dead Redemption 2 will be out October 26"looks like Anthem ducked a bullet... I have to wonder if EA/BW got an early heads-up on this, which may have provided an additional nudge to postpone the launch. Its possible for during the last investors call, EA's CEO said it was to remove the game from a saturation of similar games. I just thought it was because Dice was going to be releasing a new Battlefield game in the holiday period and wanted to prevent another Titanfall 2.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 1, 2018 23:01:03 GMT
"Red Dead Redemption 2 will be out October 26"looks like Anthem ducked a bullet... Your presuming it will be good. I have doubts on that one... I mean, talk about all the doom and gloom of not seeing footage of Anthem...we barely have any footage of Red Dead Redemption, and it's coming after one of the most successful cash cows in online revenue for Rockstar. It's also re-hashing ideas from GTA V with their heists, basically implying a ripoff of the magnificent seven, and considering Rockstar storytelling it's usually very hit and miss. I'm half expecting them to start selling horse skins for their open world online mode and that getting more press than anything else. I hope i'm wrong. Yeah, unfortunately I am expecting the exact same shark card system in RRR2 since it made Rockstar and Take 2 so much money for such a long period of time. Its also why I wouldn't expect any additional single player content for it as well.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 1, 2018 23:07:11 GMT
I really enjoy the Nomad. I think they did a great job in it's creation and the ability to upgrade it as the game went on. I think most people, though, had an issue with the size of the maps that you were required to traverse and negatively associated the time spent driving with the Nomad itself. For example, I remember trying to finish Peebee's companion content to get to her mission and part of that required driving forever on Eladaan to get to a shack to argue with a junk dealer about about re-acquiring POC. By that point, my Nomad was pretty much completely upgraded and it was still a chore. They really needed to shrink the map in almost all cases; you just spent way too much time driving, jet-packing, and running to get to your objectives as opposed to spending most of the time on your objectives. In my opinion, the Nomad was best used on H-047c, where had a small map combined with a unique atmosphere that was never boring. In a similar vein, Havarl was effective because you could move around the map without the Nomad and you really got a feel for using the jetpack in the environment. I think if they could have had exploreable "landing spots" on different planets with environmental hazards that would allow some decently quick driving to complete a mission and changed up the main planets to have most accessible outside of Nomad driving, it could have shaved a lot off the game in terms of padding. I would even say the first part of Eos was an okay size, it didn't feel like a chore to me until the poison cleared up a bit, but I think that original area was about the same size as H-047c. Agree...the initial part of Eos to activate the vaults, settle Podromos, and investigate site #2 was pretty tightly conceived. Yeah, it wasn't until the radiation cleared that the perimeter and elevated areas opened up and it felt like "Hinterlands part deux". If they reduced the maps by about 40% across the board, took out the unnecessary tasks, and edited the mission progression better, you'd still have stretches of driving but it would be a hell of a lot more breezy zipping around from icon to icon. I usually activate all the forward stations I can first and skip most of the exploration unless I'm in the mood to kill some time.
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Post by river82 on Feb 1, 2018 23:20:34 GMT
I would even say the first part of Eos was an okay size, it didn't feel like a chore to me until the poison cleared up a bit, but I think that original area was about the same size as H-047c. Agree...the initial part of Eos to activate the vaults, settle Podromos, and investigate site #2 was pretty tightly conceived. Investigate site #2 was one of the better parts of exploration in Andromeda because it was related to people
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 2, 2018 7:22:52 GMT
Did you know people actually wanted that driving again? I concur the planets were too empty in ME1 but that was the result of shoehorning the game to underpowered (especially from memory side) console. The problem with the Mako wasn't the underpowered console, it's how Bioware goes about designing exploration these days (as well as the Mako's hilarious concept of physics). It's Bioware being unable to create interesting environments, it's Bioware requiring you to drive up mountains then providing a single and almost impossible to find path, it's Bioware being unable to craft compelling loot or quests (the whole economy in ME1 was broken). Andromeda's exploration was almost as dull. Inquisition's exploration was (at times) really dull. Well Mako was Mako. A bit hard to drive with bouncy castle physics. But Nomad is actually fun to drive in every place. Enviroments in MEA were just fine for me, of course I would have liked MORE of them. And for me I was missing the driving gameplay a lot in ME2 and ME3.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 2, 2018 11:53:06 GMT
On Bioware and exploration, I want to make a quick point. The most fascinating parts of anything are usually related to people. History is fascinating because it's the story of people, exploration is often fascinating when you're exploring something related to people. So below are some pictures of Skyrim. The third picture is a gorgeous environment, absolutely beautiful, but it doesn't actually encourage exploration. Why? There's nothing to do with people. Compare that to the first 2 pictures which do encourage exploration. Then contrast that below to Andromeda, pictures 4 and 5. Andromeda is empty ... of people. Why would you explore? Find more sand, is that it? With storytelling, with exploration, it's most exciting when it's connected to people. ME1 and Andromeda had the player exploring huge, empty planets, and that's a recipe for dullness. Yes exploration is mostly about the history of a place and/or surprise encounters. The most fun places to explore in Fallout are the vaults because of the experiments conducted inside them. Reading terminals and notes is actually interesting. Bethesda knows how to offer a variety of cool locations, history and surprise encounters. The other day I was doing a Brotherhood escort and suddenly there was a Mr Gutsy robot on a bridge talking about a curfew, lol. I'd never seen him before on the bridge. Small fun moments like these make Bethesda games great despite all the other shortcomings in terms of main story narrative. To Bioware's credit, DAI tried to emulate such location narrative. Most of it was done via notes like in Skyrim and I actually enjoyed stopping to read about what went down in the place I stood. I never much bothered with reading lore entries in DAO and DA2. But I stopped to read pretty much everything in DAI. I DID enjoy the gorgeous DAI environments by themselves too. Just like I spent hours just smelling the flowers in Skyrim. Looking at beautiful things is rewarding to me. Finding more hidden beautiful places is rewarding to me. That part of DAI's open world was fine. What was lacking was CITIES and generally more people and chance encounters. MEA had too little of everything. Yes the planets were pretty but the vegetation was the same everywhere. My enjoyment of the pretty environments lasted maybe 10min. After that it was extremely dull. Sand, just more sand. MAYBE once in a while there was a tiny outpost with a quest. But then that quest didn't lead you to any cool place. Just a crate with a fetch item out in the middle of nowhere. I explored every corner of DAI because I couldn't get enough of how pretty the maps were. That alone DOESN'T make a good open world. Not at all. But it's a good canvas for something to DO. There wasn't anything particularly interesting to do in DAI, however. That was the problem. But as a hiking simulator DAI was good...
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 2, 2018 12:38:39 GMT
The best map to explore in MEA was Elaaden for me. H-(insert unmemorizable number) was in a way intersting, too, but too limited. Elaaden was more detailed and offered more variety than any other planet. Sinkholes, abyss, dunes, rocky plateaus, alien structure and it all went together. Good lighting, too.
I'd liked Kadara for it's alienness and weird colours, but the features weren't really diverse enough, it kinda was a pain to navigate and it suffered from feeling artificially gated. There is someone who designs these maps like it's a building with doors and avenues. The first planet you explore (Eos) has that too, very pronounced. Elaaden doesn't have that, you get the steep inclines you cannot go over but its not railroading me to certain paths all the time.
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Post by natetrace on Feb 2, 2018 13:23:27 GMT
I liked the exploration in ME1. I liked the planets, and I think the emptiness of the worlds, although dull for some, is closer to reality. I didn't find it dull, and I liked not having annoying people around on some uncharted world. Finally, some peace and quiet! I can just shoot some robots and look at the horizon.
I think this fall is going to be packed with games so Anthem in early 2019 does make sense. Having said that I think 2018 and 2019 will be great for games. Lots of big ones arriving. Beyond those years? A new Dragon Age in...early 2021 is my guess. We will see. I'm getting too old for these large time gaps between games!
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XBL Gamertag: Chris2k30
PSN: Simit2k30
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Post by simit on Feb 2, 2018 14:25:41 GMT
If Anthem releases march 2019 apparently they could face stiff competition in the form of a Division 2, only rumours the now but word is early march 2019 for it to be released so i'll be keeping a eye out for that
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Post by ShadowAngel on Feb 2, 2018 17:08:28 GMT
If Anthem releases march 2019 apparently they could face stiff competition in the form of a Division 2, only rumours the now but word is early march 2019 for it to be released so i'll be keeping a eye out for that I'm not sure the division would be stiff competition even if true, the first game is more or less dead when it comes to a playerbase, supposedly (cause I haven't gone back to the game after the beta) it got better over time but no one really cared about getting back on it, first impression means everything after all.
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Post by simit on Feb 2, 2018 19:31:30 GMT
Games actually pretty lively after patch 1.8, lot of ppl came back especially after word got round 1.8 was a great patch an free then i guess all the crap with D2 helped
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 2, 2018 22:57:49 GMT
If Anthem releases march 2019 apparently they could face stiff competition in the form of a Division 2, only rumours the now but word is early march 2019 for it to be released so i'll be keeping a eye out for that I'm not sure the division would be stiff competition even if true, the first game is more or less dead when it comes to a playerbase, supposedly (cause I haven't gone back to the game after the beta) it got better over time but no one really cared about getting back on it, first impression means everything after all. As simit said there is a population jump in the game. With how badly in people's eyes Bungie keeps digging themselves in people seem to have been going to The Division to get what they wanted from Destiny 2. Its like Rainbow Six: Seige Ubisoft kept patching and improving the game to the point they felt comfortable increasing the price of the game and including lootboxes (which I believe has been re-evaluated now). From my experience (I play on PC), is that The Division has a more active playerbase then Destiny 2 at the moment and I am glad I just used World of Warcraft gold to buy Destiny 2.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 2, 2018 23:00:35 GMT
If Anthem releases march 2019 apparently they could face stiff competition in the form of a Division 2, only rumours the now but word is early march 2019 for it to be released so i'll be keeping a eye out for that Personally I think taking an expansion approach to The Division or any of the games like it is the better approach. It seems that was a really big complaint with Destiny 2 and could really help sales if they go that way for people will feel what they did in the prior game wouldn't feel lost.
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XBL Gamertag: Chris2k30
PSN: Simit2k30
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Post by simit on Feb 2, 2018 23:58:42 GMT
Yeah defer have to agree, having to start characters from scratch in these types of games a ludicrous idea tbh especially with the amount of grind required, makes my eyes water just thinking of it
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 3, 2018 0:16:17 GMT
Yeah defer have to agree, having to start characters from scratch in these types of games a ludicrous idea tbh especially with the amount of grind required, makes my eyes water just thinking of it I can understand wanting to update the game after awhile, just to keep the graphics and the population high, but 3 years between releases for this type of game is ridiculous, it's meant to be an MMO lite, the min I could think of between sequels is 5 years and even then I'd say better longer, prob best a new one each console generation. I'm not sure nowadays you could even make a decent base game for this type of game in 3 years, specially when you have to keep providing updates for the previous version at the same time.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 3, 2018 1:21:05 GMT
Yeah defer have to agree, having to start characters from scratch in these types of games a ludicrous idea tbh especially with the amount of grind required, makes my eyes water just thinking of it I can understand wanting to update the game after awhile, just to keep the graphics and the population high, but 3 years between releases for this type of game is ridiculous, it's meant to be an MMO lite, the min I could think of between sequels is 5 years and even then I'd say better longer, prob best a new one each console generation. I'm not sure nowadays you could even make a decent base game for this type of game in 3 years, specially when you have to keep providing updates for the previous version at the same time. Destiny 2 actually got rebooted like a year before release, so that was part of the issue.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 3, 2018 5:01:31 GMT
I can understand wanting to update the game after awhile, just to keep the graphics and the population high, but 3 years between releases for this type of game is ridiculous, it's meant to be an MMO lite, the min I could think of between sequels is 5 years and even then I'd say better longer, prob best a new one each console generation. I'm not sure nowadays you could even make a decent base game for this type of game in 3 years, specially when you have to keep providing updates for the previous version at the same time. Destiny 2 actually got rebooted like a year before release, so that was part of the issue. The more I hear about Destiny and Destiny 2 it seems like Bungie is suffering from the same thing BioWare does, instead of watching what the players of their games are doing instead they are listening to what players say they are doing in their games.
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