Heimdall
N6
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 12,651
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 3, 2018 12:46:54 GMT
Destiny 2 actually got rebooted like a year before release, so that was part of the issue. The more I hear about Destiny and Destiny 2 it seems like Bungie is suffering from the same thing BioWare does, instead of watching what the players of their games are doing instead they are listening to what players say they are doing in their games. Apparently there was a change of direction at some point. Producing content the last three years was apparently much tougher than anticipated so they wanted to switch to a model where they made more money through the in game store and smaller content updates. In doing so they made just about every possible wrong choice though.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 3, 2018 13:38:09 GMT
The problem with doing what 'fans' want is that fans want different stuff, and it's difficult for developers to filter it through all the noise.
David Gaider famously discussed this in 2013 in his now deleted blog, talking about BSN as it happens (extracts):
"Spending too much time there [on BSN] starts to make me feel negative - not just about the games we make, but about myself and life in general,"
"The signal-to-noise ratio does seem to be worsening, and eventually you get the feeling like you're at one of those parties where all anyone is doing is bitching. It doesn't matter what they're bitching about so much as, sooner or later, that's all you can really hear.
"Engaging starts to mean partaking in the bitching until you feel like that's all you're doing. Even when I try to rise above, those who are most negative will seek me out in order to get a rise out of me - and not unsuccessfully. I am only human, and I'll end up responding to score points just as they do, and end up feeling sh**ty for having done so."
He went on to say that even though online forums are sometime hard for developers to experience 'raw' at that time he felt it was worth it...
"Best to take a breath, smile and remember there are a lot of really genuine, positive people to talk to. People who challenge you in a way that doesn't make you feel worse about yourself,"
"You should surround yourself with them the same way you'd surround yourself with such people in real life. Words to live by? I hope so,"
"The only other option is to simply avoid all online interaction with fans at all or make any such completely benign and PR-oriented, which would be unfortunate - and not, I suspect, what even the angry fan would want."
Five years later, I suspect 'fan feedback' is more polarized and aggressive than ever with few games being judged to not 'totally suck' by someone. All we can do as 'fans' is to work around the screeching the best we can.
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LogicGunn
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Feb 3, 2018 13:58:30 GMT
Always better to delay than release too soon. I really want this game to do well for Bioware, even if I'm not sure it's a game I'll enjoy.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 3, 2018 14:35:49 GMT
Always better to delay than release too soon. I really want this game to do well for Bioware, even if I'm not sure it's a game I'll enjoy. Yes. It may not be MY cup of tea, but the jury is still out on that one hehe. However, if it is actually a good game, well-conceived and coded, whether it is for me or not is irrelevant. BioWare will have redeemed themselves by making a good game again. This is my opinion, but the last good game BioWare made was ME3, yet it was horribly rushed and it shows. ME2 was fun but the story was terribad. DA2, well we've discussed it. For me, DAI and MEA are just bad games. So, for this BioWare fan, the trust in the brand is gone. If Anthem succeeds, perhaps they can make another good game. If not, well, Daddy has a gun.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 3, 2018 14:52:06 GMT
The problem with doing what 'fans' want is that fans want different stuff, and it's difficult for developers to filter it through all the noise. David Gaider famously discussed this in 2013 in his now deleted blog, talking about BSN as it happens (extracts): "Spending too much time there [on BSN] starts to make me feel negative - not just about the games we make, but about myself and life in general,"
"The signal-to-noise ratio does seem to be worsening, and eventually you get the feeling like you're at one of those parties where all anyone is doing is bitching. It doesn't matter what they're bitching about so much as, sooner or later, that's all you can really hear.
"Engaging starts to mean partaking in the bitching until you feel like that's all you're doing. Even when I try to rise above, those who are most negative will seek me out in order to get a rise out of me - and not unsuccessfully. I am only human, and I'll end up responding to score points just as they do, and end up feeling sh**ty for having done so."He went on to say that even though online forums are sometime hard for developers to experience 'raw' at that time he felt it was worth it... "Best to take a breath, smile and remember there are a lot of really genuine, positive people to talk to. People who challenge you in a way that doesn't make you feel worse about yourself,"
"You should surround yourself with them the same way you'd surround yourself with such people in real life. Words to live by? I hope so,"
"The only other option is to simply avoid all online interaction with fans at all or make any such completely benign and PR-oriented, which would be unfortunate - and not, I suspect, what even the angry fan would want."Five years later, I suspect 'fan feedback' is more polarized and aggressive than ever with few games being judged to not 'totally suck' by someone. All we can do as 'fans' is to work around the screeching the best we can. I agree and I agree with what he was trying to say, the problem is that "fans" anymore are at times crybabies that look for other places to re-enforce everything they want to believe. Look at the delay of Anthem, people are tying themselves up in knots trying to demonstrate how it will be bad for the game that it was delayed into 2019 and at the same time with Red Dead Redemption 2 being delayed twice its a good thing. I get that people have bad feelings towards EA, but Take Two and Rockstar haven't had the best interactions with their players in the last couple of years either for they abandoned all single player DLC for GTAV, how predatory their online service is with Shark Cards, and just shut off mod support. That is what I know of and I don't even play GTAV. Even looking at Cyberpunk 2077 and CDPR recently, they trademarked Cyberpunk, being exposed as a crunch studio, pretty much said publicly they don't care if they are a crunch studio or not and if you don't like it don't work there, still haven't even set a ballpark release date for Cyberpunk 2077, have a high turnover for developers, reportedly over the last year or two did a major engine overhaul. Anthem didn't even have a set release date just a window for one and people are panicking, but those studios have more development problems and its all fine and dandy. As far as what David Gaider said I do agree, but at the same time the amount of vitriol towards EA to me makes any online conversation meaningless for its going to be twisted and used against BioWare and EA and to top it off people just won't listen anymore. People claimed that they wanted BioWare to be honest and when they said "we will talk about it when we can" wasn't being honest because they weren't being given the answer they wanted, but unfortunately it was the only answer they could give.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 12,651
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 3, 2018 15:35:30 GMT
What I find frustrating about the fans is that many seem only willing to accept Bioware making games that meet their preferences. Anything that doesn’t meet their preferences isn’t just not for them, it’s automatically a terrible game. In fact, Bioware even making such a game is a betrayal!
I’m all for criticism of features and writing, but I also think each game needs to be taken for what it is rather than measured against a different sort of game you wish it was.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 3, 2018 18:30:28 GMT
What I find frustrating about the fans is that many seem only willing to accept Bioware making games that meet their preferences. Anything that doesn’t meet their preferences isn’t just not for them, it’s automatically a terrible game. In fact, Bioware even making such a game is a betrayal! I’m all for criticism of features and writing, but I also think each game needs to be taken for what it is rather than measured against a different sort of game you wish it was. Indeed. On paper, Anthem wouldn't be what I would ideally play, but I loved Mass Effect 3's multiplayer despite not having played multiplayer before, so I'm open to the notion that whatever new 'thing' Anthem will be, could be something I would enjoy.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 12,651
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 3, 2018 18:38:00 GMT
What I find frustrating about the fans is that many seem only willing to accept Bioware making games that meet their preferences. Anything that doesn’t meet their preferences isn’t just not for them, it’s automatically a terrible game. In fact, Bioware even making such a game is a betrayal! I’m all for criticism of features and writing, but I also think each game needs to be taken for what it is rather than measured against a different sort of game you wish it was. Indeed. On paper, Anthem wouldn't be what I would ideally play, but I loved Mass Effect 3's multiplayer despite not having played multiplayer before, so I'm open to the notion that whatever new 'thing' Anthem will be, could be something I would enjoy. I felt similarly before I tried a Raid in Destiny. I wasn’t at all interested in multiplayer, I barely played it even in ME3. I only got Destiny because I was interested by the setting (and got disappointed by the lack of story), but I was shocked by how much enjoyment I got out of completing the Raid with a group of other people. So while I hope Anthem retains what made me start following Bioware in the first place, I’m open for new things.
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Post by river82 on Feb 3, 2018 20:18:08 GMT
"Best to take a breath, smile and remember there are a lot of really genuine, positive people to talk to. People who challenge you in a way that doesn't make you feel worse about yourself,"
"You should surround yourself with them the same way you'd surround yourself with such people in real life. Words to live by? I hope so,"
"The only other option is to simply avoid all online interaction with fans at all or make any such completely benign and PR-oriented, which would be unfortunate - and not, I suspect, what even the angry fan would want."Five years later, I suspect 'fan feedback' is more polarized and aggressive than ever with few games being judged to not 'totally suck' by someone. All we can do as 'fans' is to work around the screeching the best we can. Don't listen to Gaider here. Surround yourself with only those who make you feel good about yourself? It's a good way to stagnate and it's not good professional advice, TBH.
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Post by river82 on Feb 3, 2018 20:26:21 GMT
The problem with doing what 'fans' want is that fans want different stuff, and it's difficult for developers to filter it through all the noise. One of the first things you learn is how to evaluate feedback. There should be mods to get rid of any abuse, then afterward if they can't sift through the rest and take aboard what's useful and discard what isn't ... well then I don't know what to say :S One of the problems in recent times is that Bioware has been chasing the 10 million sales figure. This may have confused them and made them feel not confident about their design philosophies, and it may have caused them to look to games like Skyrim or No Man's Sky for inspiration. Then they may have looked at fans and though "we'll take the stuff everybody says they want ... OH MY GOD, there's nothing there which everybody says they want", but if you design with that philosophy in mind you're just setting yourself up for failure. It should be pretty easy to evaluate feedback that's a) competent and b ) aligns with their design philosophy. But if you don't have b ) sorted, that may make things a bit more difficult. It shouldn't be, though. Bioware not being able to filter through what fans want actually indicates to me a problem with Bioware, not with the fans (not talking about abuse here). EDIT: That being said, if Bioware feel as though they don't need feedback from fans, then awesome. Go forth and do what you do. It's not as though they need the feedback from fans if they have clear design philosophies and evaluating systems in place. But "can't evaluate the feedback due to different fans wanting different things, or noise, or anything else" is a pretty BS argument. Not wanting to is probably closer to the mark.
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 4, 2018 0:58:57 GMT
What I find frustrating about the fans is that many seem only willing to accept Bioware making games that meet their preferences. Anything that doesn’t meet their preferences isn’t just not for them, it’s automatically a terrible game. In fact, Bioware even making such a game is a betrayal! I’m all for criticism of features and writing, but I also think each game needs to be taken for what it is rather than measured against a different sort of game you wish it was. I dunno, maybe I'm just feeling defensive because I identify with this position, but I think there's more context to it than that. In a vacuum, taking any given game in the form it's given is one thing. Developers are creators and in some cases artists, and want to work on something they feel suits their own desires. However, the flip side to that is that developers are also producers and if creation of one product supersedes creation of another, consumers are not obligated to accept those priorities. To take offense at it, or to take it personally, is almost certainly going too far. But just as I am not owed a certain type of product, I do not owe the benefit of the doubt to a different one.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 12,651
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 4, 2018 1:45:04 GMT
What I find frustrating about the fans is that many seem only willing to accept Bioware making games that meet their preferences. Anything that doesn’t meet their preferences isn’t just not for them, it’s automatically a terrible game. In fact, Bioware even making such a game is a betrayal! I’m all for criticism of features and writing, but I also think each game needs to be taken for what it is rather than measured against a different sort of game you wish it was. I dunno, maybe I'm just feeling defensive because I identify with this position, but I think there's more context to it than that. In a vacuum, taking any given game in the form it's given is one thing. Developers are creators and in some cases artists, and want to work on something they feel suits their own desires. However, the flip side to that is that developers are also producers and if creation of one product supersedes creation of another, consumers are not obligated to accept those priorities. To take offense at it, or to take it personally, is almost certainly going too far. But just as I am not owed a certain type of product, I do not owe the benefit of the doubt to a different one. It’s less a matter of giving them the benefit of the doubt than it is simply saying “this isn’t for me” and moving on if you don’t like the design of the game (distinct here from how well those designs were executed). Something I worry about is that Anthem could turn out to be a great game, but still struggle because of the antipathy many people have out there for Bioware and EA. And frankly there seem to be a good number of people out there (especially on Youtube) looking for any excuse to put out some negative spin on EA. I’m not saying I approve of what they’ve done recently, but such indiscriminate negativity doesn’t help.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 4, 2018 8:07:04 GMT
What I find frustrating about the fans is that many seem only willing to accept Bioware making games that meet their preferences. Anything that doesn’t meet their preferences isn’t just not for them, it’s automatically a terrible game. In fact, Bioware even making such a game is a betrayal! I’m all for criticism of features and writing, but I also think each game needs to be taken for what it is rather than measured against a different sort of game you wish it was. I dunno, maybe I'm just feeling defensive because I identify with this position, but I think there's more context to it than that. In a vacuum, taking any given game in the form it's given is one thing. Developers are creators and in some cases artists, and want to work on something they feel suits their own desires. However, the flip side to that is that developers are also producers and if creation of one product supersedes creation of another, consumers are not obligated to accept those priorities. To take offense at it, or to take it personally, is almost certainly going too far. But just as I am not owed a certain type of product, I do not owe the benefit of the doubt to a different one. Nobody says you have to accept the priorities, but it is expected that people act like adults. Unless you consider threatening developer and their families to be an okay part of the discussion. How many times did BioWare on the BSN just ask us to be "respectful" when making comments and after that was comments about selling out or how they should all be fired. You want to have a discussion that is fine, but don't expect them to want to have a conversation that would be with people making threats.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 4, 2018 11:14:10 GMT
Appealing to reason and using a Gaider post to drive it is a self-defeating argument. He is what is wrong with gaming as much as anybody else.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 4, 2018 12:01:04 GMT
Appealing to reason and using a Gaider post to drive it is a self-defeating argument. He is what is wrong with gaming as much as anybody else. I'm not entirely sure I would go quite that far, however I do remember several conversations he had with fans on old BSN. He would often make statements like "You don't really want that feature, you think you do in theory, but you really don't trust me, I do this for a living". Because their job is not to sell a product the customer wants, it's to do whatever they want to do, and we just take it or leave it. Excuses like that, to me, are just devs saying "I don't like that, so I refuse to do that" and we just have to accept that, otherwise we are labeled entitled little babies who can't appreciate anything. Which brings me into how Gaider went above and beyond in his defense of DA2, which was plain as day to everyone that it was a rushed product and nowhere near the standard of consistent excellence the studio had up until that point. To me Gaider and the team just emotionally could not accept that a large number of people didn't like the game, because Bioware as a studio never really had to deal with that before. Their detractors had always been extremely small in number, and their fanbase until then was mostly united in singing endless praise upon them. I was one such person, I would frequently comment how I didn't need to know a single detail about their upcoming games, They announced it and I instantly went out and pre-ordered it, and would go to the midnight releases to pick it up. All I needed to see was the "Bioware" label on the game box. Dragon Age 2 changed everything, imo. In a lot of different ways. DA2 created arguably the first major divide in the Bioware fan community. You had people who were shocked and confused, and disappointed, you had people who thought it was their best game yet (somehow) and different shades of both of those ideas. IMO Bioware had grown accustomed to the chorus of praise, the echo chamber of support they more or less had as a whole until this game. You always had the old timers who were mad their games weren't like Baulder's Gate anymore and etc but by and large DA2 shifted everything. For arguably the first time, the devs had to deal with criticism of their product on a large scale, and they just refused to talk about it, insisting we as fans just didn't get their vision and being overzealous in their defense of it. They realized they weren't going to convince everyone of this idea, and decided to instead close off their ears to anyone who didn't like it, and started only listening to the Echo Chambers, to the Super Fans who cosplay and go to Cons to chat them up. Because that's what they were used to, and didn't want to deal with real issues or complaints. This is of course not including the people who were just morons who cursed them out and made threats and etc etc.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 12,651
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 4, 2018 14:05:35 GMT
Considering the sort of things some fans demand from the devs, and general lack of understanding of game design among players, I don’t think Gaider’s position is unreasonable. What devs are actually saying is closer to “we wanted to try doing something this way.” And all too often what they hear from fans is: “No! Only do it that way! Ignore the fans who say they like it this way, they’re stupid!” Because the fan base is never unified on these issues. This didn’t start with DA2, I’ve been seeing this sort of divisive fan response ever since I started hanging out on Bioware forums, since the release of DA:O it happens every single time they release anything.
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Post by goishen on Feb 4, 2018 15:01:00 GMT
IMO, the only saving grace to DAI was Sera and the Red Jenny which was modeled after Anonymous, the hackivist group. I dunno. I want Anthem to succeed. Hell, I want everything coming from BioWare to succeed. I want them shitting out gold.
But it just isn't that way, not anymore.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 4, 2018 16:12:07 GMT
Found this very nice as well.
Don't EVER tell me, "Games are too expensive to make". The proof otherwise is there for all to see.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 4, 2018 17:36:55 GMT
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 4, 2018 17:40:56 GMT
Considering the sort of things some fans demand from the devs, and general lack of understanding of game design among players, I don’t think Gaider’s position is unreasonable. What devs are actually saying is closer to “we wanted to try doing something this way.” And all too often what they hear from fans is: “No! Only do it that way! Ignore the fans who say they like it this way, they’re stupid!” Because the fan base is never unified on these issues. This didn’t start with DA2, I’ve been seeing this sort of divisive fan response ever since I started hanging out on Bioware forums, since the release of DA:O it happens every single time they release anything. Yep, I remember the amount of "BioWare is betraying us" style of comments when they moved from the licensed games of Baldur's Gate and Star Wars to their own IPs. It was the end of the world and BioWare didn't care about "their real fanbase" because they didn't keep making the exact same game.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 4, 2018 17:44:20 GMT
Found this very nice as well. Don't EVER tell me, "Games are too expensive to make". The proof otherwise is there for all to see. Sorry, a conspiracy video on YouTube is not enough for me to change my opinion on the cost of game development. Otherwise publishers and studios would not be chasing a sure thing all the time now to make sure they sell enough copies to break even. Just because a couple of games become extremely popular and sell way beyond the break even point, doesn't mean that all games fall into that category.
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Post by vhiran on Feb 5, 2018 8:42:19 GMT
Considering the sort of things some fans demand from the devs, and general lack of understanding of game design among players, I don’t think Gaider’s position is unreasonable. What devs are actually saying is closer to “we wanted to try doing something this way.” And all too often what they hear from fans is: “No! Only do it that way! Ignore the fans who say they like it this way, they’re stupid!” Because the fan base is never unified on these issues. This didn’t start with DA2, I’ve been seeing this sort of divisive fan response ever since I started hanging out on Bioware forums, since the release of DA:O it happens every single time they release anything. Yep, I remember the amount of "BioWare is betraying us" style of comments when they moved from the licensed games of Baldur's Gate and Star Wars to their own IPs. It was the end of the world and BioWare didn't care about "their real fanbase" because they didn't keep making the exact same game. I remember, early promos for Mass Effect were strongly met with "Gears of War in Space" and "Bioware is officially dead." Judging the product well before it came out - it was pathetic then, it's pathetic now.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 5, 2018 9:37:11 GMT
Sorry, a conspiracy video on YouTube is not enough for me to change my opinion on the cost of game development. Agree. 'Extra Credits' have solid video game industry credentials. I'll take their word over a ranty video...
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 5, 2018 11:25:21 GMT
Found this very nice as well. Don't EVER tell me, "Games are too expensive to make". The proof otherwise is there for all to see. Sorry, a conspiracy video on YouTube is not enough for me to change my opinion on the cost of game development. Otherwise publishers and studios would not be chasing a sure thing all the time now to make sure they sell enough copies to break even. Just because a couple of games become extremely popular and sell way beyond the break even point, doesn't mean that all games fall into that category. Sure, go ahead and believe the lie they tell you about how desperate they are for money, how they barely get by. If you and anyone else honestly believes that the simple act of Creating and Selling a product, is not enough to generate sustainable profits, then I'm sorry, you are supporting an industry with a broken business model, factually broken. Because if a company 100% needs every money milking effort they can shove into a product in order to just barely survive, they are clearly in the wrong business because they have no idea how to run a company. You go ahead and keep drinking that Kool Aid they give you. Maybe one day you'll wake up and realize these companies you go to bat for and defend couldn't give two rips about you or your die hard defense of them while they bleed your wallet for every penny you have and hoard it all in offshore tax havens and continue to cut costs in every single area and continue to cry about how they are so horrible at their job they cannot turn a profit on their product without propping it up through gimmicks. You know how to turn a profit without gimmicks? Make a good game. Witcher 3 has no pathetic greed based gimmicks and has made hundreds of millions in pure profit. They made a good game that people enjoyed, and the game sold itself. The entire AAA industry has been milking the same ideas and concepts for over a decade, they do not innovate. They rely entirely on Hype Machine Marketing and manipulation of people with gimmicks to make their money, because they have no interest or reason to bother making actually well made games. Even if this story about the expense of games was true, and they raised the price of games to accommodate, you are an absolute buffoon if you think these money milking gimmicks would just magically go away.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 5, 2018 11:35:37 GMT
In fairness, when it comes to debates about: - Is it more expensive to make video games than before, and
- How much profit do video game companies want to make?
It can both be true that games are more expensive to make and that companies are too greedy for profits. In some respects, from the perspective of gamers, both of those things are irrelevant. The real decision the consumer has to make about any specific game purchase is whether: - The base price, plus:
- Additional costs from any 'live' economy,
Make them feel comfortable with spending that money or not. And if it's too expensive, buy fewer games or wait for Sales.
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