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Post by opuspace on Mar 27, 2019 3:44:43 GMT
She practically moves her stuff onto the Normandy without anyone's say so. Kaidan and Ashley had to ask for Shepard's permission to join, how did she get away with moving her computer monitors and Shadow Broker equipment onto the ship?! Because of Reasons due to the writers shoe horning her into ME3. In Universe reason, there is no canon reason for that. Outside of A Council demand, It is tactiless and creepy to force yourself on a Spectre by moving in regardless if it is welcomed or not. There should be a scene where Shepard can ask Liara why she is on board and why she board his ship without his permission. More Renegade Response would express Shepard's anger with plenty of Yelling, More Paragon Response would be a Tranquil Fury tone. A proper Tranquil Fury tone should be quite icy and subtle anger. I am tempted to make a ME3 Remake thread and see how Liara became indoctrinated by a Dealer a very Smooth Dealer that is working for the Reapers and giving her Reaper Indoctrination Devices that are not Creepy but something like Shepard might like to get. Like having an Alliance Ship Model or updating Shepard's play list and having a hidden Reaper Signal that slowly indoctrinate him. There's also the elephant in the room that's never addressed by other teammates: Why did she never tell them Cerberus had Shepard's body? When I found out she admitted to keeping quiet about Tali's crush on Shepard in ME1 to lower the competition, it put her in a really ugly light after Horizon. Ashley or Kaidan could have been Shepard's lover; I'd have been livid at her for making a massive life or death decision on my love's life and leaving me to suffer with their death. There's also Shepards who have been through Akuze who have been roleplayed as having a grudge about being in Cerberus' debt too. It'd be like handing Liara over to the Shadow Broker so that she would have to work for him in exchange for him saving her life. She does so many petty little things that make me want to boot her to Hackett that I'm grateful ME2 gave me a wider variety of choices as to who cannot show up in ME3. Even Garrus isn't someone I'd want to be around for a Shepard that was roleplayed as hating him.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 27, 2019 12:04:19 GMT
She practically moves her stuff onto the Normandy without anyone's say so. Kaidan and Ashley had to ask for Shepard's permission to join, how did she get away with moving her computer monitors and Shadow Broker equipment onto the ship?! Because of Reasons due to the writers shoe horning her into ME3. In Universe reason, there is no canon reason for that. Outside of A Council demand, It is tactiless and creepy to force yourself on a Spectre by moving in regardless if it is welcomed or not. There should be a scene where Shepard can ask Liara why she is on board and why she board his ship without his permission. More Renegade Response would express Shepard's anger with plenty of Yelling, More Paragon Response would be a Tranquil Fury tone. A proper Tranquil Fury tone should be quite icy and subtle anger. A renegade response? Hmmm...hahaha. Shepard: Who gave you permission to move all that crap in Miranda's office? t'soni: Well...I....You are..... Shepard: Stop. I will be back in a moment. t'soni: Dr.Chakwas? Why do you have a needle and thread? Chakwas: Shepard told me you're suffering from cat-got-your-tongue syndrome. What I will do is sew your mouth shut so that the cat can't get anything more. t'soni: WHAT? You can't be serious. You can't allow th--- Shepard: Shutup asari. This is my number one pet peeve about Shepard. Not able to ask questions especially in ME2. It's interesting that Shepard is given the choice to allow Allers on the ship, but that is overlooked when it comes to smurfette. In ME1, Shepard can threaten the asari by wanting to throw her sorry ass back in the volcano. For some reason that is forgotten in ME2/3. And I would reply in your thread about my thoughts about what could be done with the asari in a remake There's also the elephant in the room that's never addressed by other teammates: Why did she never tell them Cerberus had Shepard's body? She wouldn't have to tell them. Just tell the Alliance. Let them be the ones to tell A/K. Look at what happened on Horizon in ME2. How different would that scene have played out had the asari informed the Alliance that Shepard's body was in the hands of Cerberus? Imagine Shepard given the opportunity to tell A/K that it was t'soni that knew about his/her body was with Ceberus? What do you think their reaction would be? I can guess what Ashley would be thinking. Not sure about Alenko. Sending her to Hackett would make sense. She can help translate the plans. What didn't make sense is sending A/K to Hackett, if the player chooses. What can they add?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 27, 2019 12:15:32 GMT
Because of Reasons due to the writers shoe horning her into ME3. In Universe reason, there is no canon reason for that. Outside of A Council demand, It is tactiless and creepy to force yourself on a Spectre by moving in regardless if it is welcomed or not. There should be a scene where Shepard can ask Liara why she is on board and why she board his ship without his permission. More Renegade Response would express Shepard's anger with plenty of Yelling, More Paragon Response would be a Tranquil Fury tone. A proper Tranquil Fury tone should be quite icy and subtle anger. I am tempted to make a ME3 Remake thread and see how Liara became indoctrinated by a Dealer a very Smooth Dealer that is working for the Reapers and giving her Reaper Indoctrination Devices that are not Creepy but something like Shepard might like to get. Like having an Alliance Ship Model or updating Shepard's play list and having a hidden Reaper Signal that slowly indoctrinate him. There's also the elephant in the room that's never addressed by other teammates: Why did she never tell them Cerberus had Shepard's body? When I found out she admitted to keeping quiet about Tali's crush on Shepard in ME1 to lower the competition, it put her in a really ugly light after Horizon. Ashley or Kaidan could have been Shepard's lover; I'd have been livid at her for making a massive life or death decision on my love's life and leaving me to suffer with their death. There's also Shepards who have been through Akuze who have been roleplayed as having a grudge about being in Cerberus' debt too. It'd be like handing Liara over to the Shadow Broker so that she would have to work for him in exchange for him saving her life. She does so many petty little things that make me want to boot her to Hackett that I'm grateful ME2 gave me a wider variety of choices as to who cannot show up in ME3. Even Garrus isn't someone I'd want to be around for a Shepard that was roleplayed as hating him. Okay there's alot to gop through here.
First I never heard her say she knew tali liked shepard so I can't respond to that one.
As for giving shepard to cerberus you have to remember SHEPARD WAS DEAD and they said they could bring him back. So it was a reasonable decision and considering she went through hell to get shepards body I think she should be excused.
And who the fuck hates garrus? Seriously dude I don't understand that. Also liara moving her stuff onto the normandy is neccesary if she is going to go on the ship. As for her going on the ship she is a squad mate so she has to. As for her moving there shepard has to have a few squadmates that are always there.
They have to have so permanent things and to be honest I don't understand the serious anti liara hate. I mean they forced james on us and people didn't freak out.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 27, 2019 16:07:13 GMT
Well there is always more room with the Anti Liara group, DMC, me and themikefest are known members of it. the only requirement to join is to think that Liara is creepy regardless of your personal feelings for her. She practically moves her stuff onto the Normandy without anyone's say so. Kaidan and Ashley had to ask for Shepard's permission to join, how did she get away with moving her computer monitors and Shadow Broker equipment onto the ship?! There's a war going on and they need the best Intel. She can provide that.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 27, 2019 16:15:15 GMT
She practically moves her stuff onto the Normandy without anyone's say so. Kaidan and Ashley had to ask for Shepard's permission to join, how did she get away with moving her computer monitors and Shadow Broker equipment onto the ship?! There's a war going on and they need the best Intel. She can provide that. And she can't do that being with Hackett as she's helping translate the plans to the crucible?
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 27, 2019 18:11:56 GMT
There's a war going on and they need the best Intel. She can provide that. And she can't do that being with Hackett as she's helping translate the plans to the crucible? Sure but then she's not on my squad. I like Liara plus it makes sense for her to be on the best ship.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 27, 2019 18:30:37 GMT
The hugest elephant is that Liara knew about everything Wilson told the Shadow Broker and what's the chance that an information about the clone wasn't there…
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 27, 2019 18:35:31 GMT
The hugest elephant is that Liara knew about everything Wilson told the Shadow Broker and what's the chance that an information about the clone wasn't there… The idea of a clone was just bad writing and was supposed to be in my opinion. The citdael dlc was supposed to be light hearted and help us say goodbye. I wouldn't take anything from that seriously.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 27, 2019 19:04:16 GMT
The hugest elephant is that Liara knew about everything Wilson told the Shadow Broker and what's the chance that an information about the clone wasn't there… The idea of a clone was just bad writing and was supposed to be in my opinion. The citdael dlc was supposed to be light hearted and help us say goodbye. I wouldn't take anything from that seriously. I hate the trope of protagonists having to fight their clones and my suspension of disbelief about what happens in the Citadel DLC is limited but I'm unable to take it not seriously at all.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 27, 2019 19:05:51 GMT
Sure but then she's not on my squad. The same can be said about the ME2 squadmates, minus the turian and quarian, not being on the squad in ME3, right? Why does it make sense?
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 28, 2019 1:53:18 GMT
Sure but then she's not on my squad. The same can be said about the ME2 squadmates, minus the turian and quarian, not being on the squad in ME3, right? Why does it make sense? True but Liara is tied to the plot. Plus I never expected the Cerberus crew would remain. It makes sense because the Normandy is the ship hitting the reapers head on. It's the most advanced ship with the most important mission.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 28, 2019 2:52:02 GMT
The same can be said about the ME2 squadmates, minus the turian and quarian, not being on the squad in ME3, right? Why does it make sense? True but Liara is tied to the plot. Plus I never expected the Cerberus crew would remain. It makes sense because the Normandy is the ship hitting the reapers head on. It's the most advanced ship with the most important mission. Plot? What purpose did she serve after Mars? She's needed for From Ashes. Not playing the dlc doesn't change the game. She's needed on Thessia. Is she really? All she did is give a history lesson about her species at the temple. Nothing important. I say Javik is more important to have on the mission than the asari. So because the SR2 is on the front lines facing the reapers makes sense for her to be on the ship? So what does she contribute to that instead of having her with Hackett working on the crucible project.
The SR2 is the most advanced ship with the most important mission. All Shepard is doing is gathering allies to deal with the reapers. The asari isn't needed for that.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 28, 2019 4:29:24 GMT
Okay there's alot to gop through here.
First I never heard her say she knew tali liked shepard so I can't respond to that one.
As for giving shepard to cerberus you have to remember SHEPARD WAS DEAD and they said they could bring him back. So it was a reasonable decision and considering she went through hell to get shepards body I think she should be excused.
And who the fuck hates garrus? Seriously dude I don't understand that. Also liara moving her stuff onto the normandy is neccesary if she is going to go on the ship. As for her going on the ship she is a squad mate so she has to. As for her moving there shepard has to have a few squadmates that are always there.
They have to have so permanent things and to be honest I don't understand the serious anti liara hate. I mean they forced james on us and people didn't freak out.
I'd recommend rereading my post where I'm wondering why she never told anyone, especially a romanced Ashley or Kaidan, that Cerberus had Shepard's body and why what she did was beyond creepy to some. As for having her forced as a teammate, I'll continue further down. She practically moves her stuff onto the Normandy without anyone's say so. Kaidan and Ashley had to ask for Shepard's permission to join, how did she get away with moving her computer monitors and Shadow Broker equipment onto the ship?! There's a war going on and they need the best Intel. She can provide that. Liara is the Shadow Broker brokering intel, moving resources and agents. And a Prothean expert translating text for the Crucible. And she's been acting as a field agent facing down gunfire, explosives and other artillery. And she's been spying on teammates. And she's been trying to counter Cerberus agents. And she's doing this on a ship that gets fired at by Reapers (Rannoch), moves through a war zone(Geth and Quarians), has to dodge Reapers while scanning and gets hijacked at some point (Citadel dlc). Any of these things going wrong and we would have lost a huge chunk of support that she's handling somehow effortlessly. She'd have been better off with the Crucible where it's specifically being hidden away and guarded ferociously while communicating through quantum entanglement centers like Hackett has or over the comm. It'd be very easy to write it that way. When we want an option to not have her on the team, we're not asking for something that's never been done before. We want what ME1 used to provide: Choice. And before someone says our choices don't matter, it certainly mattered when we choose who to romance, who we don't let on the ship, who died on the suicide mission. If you want her on your team, great. But if we can't get the option to choose how we react to her, we want the option to not have her on the team and deal with her drama like when she picks a fight with Javik even if we kept him deliberately away from her because of his personality. If that means having to fight with less support, by all means, let us deal with that. It's no skin off your playthrough if we have a more difficult time fighting off enemies. But it's not like we were ever hampered by the combat to make having someone who has had an unsettling fixation on Shepard to be forced on the player. And that was something ME3 did that I'd argue diminished the RPG aspects of Mass Effect. We came to play a video game, to participate and affect the outcomes of certain things, not to passively watch a movie that railroaded over past decisions and left us with a jarring detached interest. Part of ME1's appeal was the numerous little differences that came with playing in different orders. It's what has players coming back to play again and again. Not to treat it as: My choices are what everyone else should have. Because if that's the case, why bother with Femshep? Why bother with a Garrus romance if Jacob is clearly designed with more content in ME2?
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 28, 2019 14:09:05 GMT
True but Liara is tied to the plot. Plus I never expected the Cerberus crew would remain. It makes sense because the Normandy is the ship hitting the reapers head on. It's the most advanced ship with the most important mission. Plot? What purpose did she serve after Mars? She's needed for From Ashes. Not playing the dlc doesn't change the game. She's needed on Thessia. Is she really? All she did is give a history lesson about her species at the temple. Nothing important. I say Javik is more important to have on the mission than the asari. So because the SR2 is on the front lines facing the reapers makes sense for her to be on the ship? So what does she contribute to that instead of having her with Hackett working on the crucible project.
The SR2 is the most advanced ship with the most important mission. All Shepard is doing is gathering allies to deal with the reapers. The asari isn't needed for that. Sure she could have been with Hackett but I like having her on board and as I said it worked for me. You dont care for Liara and that's fine but I do.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 28, 2019 16:10:03 GMT
Plot? What purpose did she serve after Mars? She's needed for From Ashes. Not playing the dlc doesn't change the game. She's needed on Thessia. Is she really? All she did is give a history lesson about her species at the temple. Nothing important. I say Javik is more important to have on the mission than the asari. She's not really needed for From Ashes. Shepard has more knowledge of the Protheans than Liara. She's redundant. It's obvious because Shepard is the one who has see and hear the video. Liara senses nothing. In fact, it's ludicrous to believe the SB even has time to go on archaeological digs. She'd lose control of things so fast her head would be spinning and a new SB would be installed. I also don't think she's a realistic requirement for Mars. It's not like they need an archaeologist. This stuff is already dug up. It just needs someone to study it all just like Cerberus manages. Liara could be useful as the SB and providing intel and some places to go that would help build alliances, or recover useful relics and tech. I understand the meta reason for her presence but she's just not necessary for the roles given to her.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 28, 2019 16:17:21 GMT
Plot? What purpose did she serve after Mars? She's needed for From Ashes. Not playing the dlc doesn't change the game. She's needed on Thessia. Is she really? All she did is give a history lesson about her species at the temple. Nothing important. I say Javik is more important to have on the mission than the asari. She's not really needed for From Ashes. Shepard has more knowledge of the Protheans than Liara. She's redundant. It's obvious because Shepard is the one who has see and hear the video. Liara senses nothing. In fact, it's ludicrous to believe the SB even has time to go on archaeological digs. She'd lose control of things so fast her head would be spinning and a new SB would be installed. I also don't think she's a realistic requirement for Mars. It's not like they need an archaeologist. This stuff is already dug up. It just needs someone to study it all just like Cerberus manages. Liara could be useful as the SB and providing intel and some places to go that would help build alliances, or recover useful relics and tech. I understand the meta reason for her presence but she's just not necessary for the roles given to her. Shepard has the cipher. The asari was never needed for ME3. Instead of Shepard wasting away for 6 months, have her/him at Mars studying the ruins. The plans are found. Maybe in the remake, the cipher can play a much larger role than was seen in the trilogy especially ME3.
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Post by souljahbill14 on Mar 28, 2019 16:20:31 GMT
No character is integral to the story but Shep. People are included for whatever reasons because that’s what the writer’s wanted. There’s really no sense in debating “who’s important” as any character can fit whatever role the writer’s needed.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 28, 2019 18:39:45 GMT
And she can't do that being with Hackett as she's helping translate the plans to the crucible? Sure but then she's not on my squad. I like Liara plus it makes sense for her to be on the best ship. I hate to be that guy but the people that hate liara are gonna argue with you about this regardless. I really don't understand the hate but everyone has their opinion and it's more about them not wanting her there then some story problem. Also the same arguent that we "have" to have her on our ship could be made for james as well. I would have much prefered jack,miranda,grunt,or any other squad mate from ME2 except thane since he was dying and not jacob either because he was a very bland character. Heck even having aria on the ship (since until omega dlc she was just hanging around more or less. And she was a badass asari commando who would have been a kick ass squad mate and LI. So my argument would be why did we have to have james there!? We had ALOT of previous characters that people wanted rather then the high school jock. And why did edi need to get a body and become a squad mate. Liara knew shepard well and had fought to keep him out of the reapers hands (the collectors were working for the reapers so...) Now I could think of worse people to have at my back.
Sorry about the rant but to sum it up they don't like liara and that's why they don't want her there. Like I said you could make the different arguments for the edi sex bot or james and it would be the same thing for the same reason.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2019 1:15:08 GMT
No character is integral to the story but Shep. People are included for whatever reasons because that’s what the writer’s wanted. There’s really no sense in debating “who’s important” as any character can fit whatever role the writer’s needed. And yet Liara is unkillable in all three games and gets a voice cameo in MEA. BioWare seems to think she's integral to the story. Every ME1 and ME2 squadmate can die except Liara. She can only die on the beam run, something also true of the new squadmates in ME3. Shepard can even shoot A/K which was the most ridiculous thing ever given that they're fellow Spectres and Shep was freaking out over their injuries right after leaving Mars. Yet suddenly, Spectres A/K can be killed just for actually doing their jobs.
Yeah, might be annoyed as fuck about Liara's forced prominence in the game.
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Post by melbella on Mar 29, 2019 1:25:26 GMT
you could make the different arguments for the edi sex bot or james James is at least an Alliance Marine serving on an Alliance ship. He makes sense in that regard. EDI bot I could do without, but even if there's no way around that, I'd at least like the option to disapprove of what she did and be clear that I'm not taking her anywhere in her 'new body' just in case it isn't really hers. Instead there are just two ways to be ok with it. I'm not a fan of Liara being by default on the ship, but my headcanon is that her stuff was already there since Hackett sent her to the archives in the first place. There was clearly no time between leaving Mars and getting to the Citadel for them to make a pit stop to pick up all her crap. That means it had to already be there, probably on Anderson's orders since he was planning to use the Normandy as a roving base. Having SB intel in the ship for that role makes sense, but not the way it ended up.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2019 1:25:57 GMT
I hate to be that guy but the people that hate liara are gonna argue with you about this regardless. I really don't understand the hate but everyone has their opinion and it's more about them not wanting her there then some story problem. My dislike of Liara grew over time and I have reasons. To start with, if you've begun the process of romancing A/K, she will stay say stuff like "but you really like me, too, right?" Can A/K do that if you start romancing Liara first? She's required to move the plot along in order for Shep to put that last pieces of the cipher/beacon info together. She gets her own DLC in ME2 but even so is required in order to have access to Thane and Samara. As for becoming the SB...nah, I know people try to say it's possible but I challenge anyone to find an archaeologist in the world who can seamlessly move into marketing information - having a spy network and instant respect (which for Liara occurred in the span of two years). Let's not even get into her fetish for Shepard memorabilia and her decision to let Shep's friends know that he might be alive. She's one selfish woman. In ME3, she's required on Mars and again on Eden Prime (the latter of which is utter crap). I'm sorry, but Liara was overused and the very definition of a Mary Sue.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 29, 2019 1:32:50 GMT
I liked ME1 Liara a lot more than her sequel iterations.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 29, 2019 2:16:02 GMT
I hate to be that guy but the people that hate liara are gonna argue with you about this regardless. I really don't understand the hate but everyone has their opinion and it's more about them not wanting her there then some story problem. My dislike of Liara grew over time and I have reasons. To start with, if you've begun the process of romancing A/K, she will stay say stuff like "but you really like me, too, right?" Can A/K do that if you start romancing Liara first? She's required to move the plot along in order for Shep to put that last pieces of the cipher/beacon info together. She gets her own DLC in ME2 but even so is required in order to have access to Thane and Samara. As for becoming the SB...nah, I know people try to say it's possible but I challenge anyone to find an archaeologist in the world who can seamlessly move into marketing information - having a spy network and instant respect (which for Liara occurred in the span of two years). Let's not even get into her fetish for Shepard memorabilia and her decision to let Shep's friends know that he might be alive. She's one selfish woman. In ME3, she's required on Mars and again on Eden Prime (the latter of which is utter crap). I'm sorry, but Liara was overused and the very definition of a Mary Sue. Will that matter if we explain why? We've already been dismissed as just being haters. The worst part about Liara is that they tried to make her so valuable to the story that they left plot holes with her involved. She doesn't make sense on the Normandy when her work should require full time attention.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 29, 2019 2:21:42 GMT
I liked ME1 Liara a lot more than her sequel iterations. So did I. That ME1 Liara is no longer there nor recognizable in ME2 or ME3.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 2:25:13 GMT
My Shepard doesn't trust the asari. She says she's your friend, yet fails to inform anyone, particularly the Alliance, about Shepard's body being in the hands of Cerberus. On top of that, she has mental issues. Taking Shepard's armor to put on display like its some prize/trophy. She has Shepard's dna plastered in different spots in her apartment. I would be curious what answer she would give, if asked. '
In regards to Vega, he's ok, but I would rather have had an ME2 squadmate instead.
The hologram turned platform I don't care about. It's too bad Shepard doesn't have the option to throw the thing out the airlock.
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