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Post by burningcherry on Mar 29, 2019 9:58:42 GMT
She gets her own DLC in ME2 but even so is required in order to have access to Thane and Samara. You just have to talk to her and hug her once. If this is a problem, why aren't you angry about the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missions in ME2?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 11:27:30 GMT
She gets her own DLC in ME2 but even so is required in order to have access to Thane and Samara. You just have to talk to her and hug her once. If this is a problem, why aren't you angry about the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missions in ME2? There's no way to avoid that what-the-crap hug, if a player wants to recruit Thane and/or Samara. My Shepard didn't want to hug the alien. The hug makes no sense for a Shepard that told the alien that she would be thrown back in the volcano if she didn't shut her whiny ass.
What 6 people are forced on the team? The only ones are Taylor, Vakarian, Lawson, Jack and Solus.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 12:33:32 GMT
You just have to talk to her and hug her once. If this is a problem, why aren't you angry about the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missions in ME2? There's no way to avoid that what-the-crap hug, if a player wants to recruit Thane and/or Samara. My Shepard didn't want to hug the alien. The hug makes no sense for a Shepard that told the alien that she would be thrown back in the volcano if she didn't shut her whiny ass.
What 6 people are forced on the team? The only ones are Taylor, Vakarian, Lawson, Jack and Solus.
Then, why aren't you angry about the 5 people you're forced to have on your team and the krogan on ice you're forced to load into your hold?
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 29, 2019 12:40:24 GMT
You just have to talk to her and hug her once. If this is a problem, why aren't you angry about the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missions in ME2? There's no way to avoid that what-the-crap hug, if a player wants to recruit Thane and/or Samara. My Shepard didn't want to hug the alien. The hug makes no sense for a Shepard that told the alien that she would be thrown back in the volcano if she didn't shut her whiny ass. What 6 people are forced on the team? The only ones are Taylor, Vakarian, Lawson, Jack and Solus.
the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missionsI thought about the ones you mentioned + Grunt. What I mean is, Liara is almost non-existent in vanilla ME2 and there are less forced interactions with her than with many other people. If someone is not upset about them, then they can only be upset that, no matter what, Shepard will always be nice to Liara and not just neutral like to Jacob or Garrus during the mandatory encounters. Which I agree with, but let's speak about the tone and not the very fact that you have to interact with her then.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 12:45:11 GMT
I thought about the ones you mentioned + Grunt. Grunt does not have to be released from the tank.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 12:54:18 GMT
There's no way to avoid that what-the-crap hug, if a player wants to recruit Thane and/or Samara. My Shepard didn't want to hug the alien. The hug makes no sense for a Shepard that told the alien that she would be thrown back in the volcano if she didn't shut her whiny ass. What 6 people are forced on the team? The only ones are Taylor, Vakarian, Lawson, Jack and Solus.
the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missionsI thought about the ones you mentioned + Grunt. What I mean is, Liara is almost non-existent in vanilla ME2 and there are less forced interactions with her than with many other people. If someone is not upset about them, then they can only be upset that, no matter what, Shepard will always be nice to Liara and not just neutral like to Jacob or Garrus during the mandatory encounters. Which I agree with, but let's speak about the tone and not the very fact that you have to interact with her then. You can also get pretty snarky with her immediately after the hug. It is a cultural thing with most of the Asari in the game who habitually throw themselves at Shepard in ME2. Shiala strokes Shepard's cheek and even Samara adjusts her panties and walks rather seductively towards Shepard during that first meeting. Nelyna goes through a bunch of seductive movements in ME1 and Sha'ira leans in to whisper in Shepard's ear. Ashley will even comment about it in ME3 if Shepard romances her.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 12:54:39 GMT
There's no way to avoid that what-the-crap hug, if a player wants to recruit Thane and/or Samara. My Shepard didn't want to hug the alien. The hug makes no sense for a Shepard that told the alien that she would be thrown back in the volcano if she didn't shut her whiny ass.
What 6 people are forced on the team? The only ones are Taylor, Vakarian, Lawson, Jack and Solus.
Then, why aren't you angry about the 5 people you're forced to have on your team and the krogan on ice you're forced to load into your hold?
So you want me to be angry about those? Why? Is there a requirement to be angry at them? My Shepard has no use for Jack. Would rather have put Mordin on the crew instead of having him as a squadmate. Vakarian wasted two years shooting bad guys instead of making any effort to find a way to stop the reapers. My Shepard likes Lawson. Jacob could have been left off the roster. His gravity is one mean mother wasn't that impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 12:55:21 GMT
I thought about the ones you mentioned + Grunt. Grunt does not have to be released from the tank. No, but you are forced to take his tank on board. You can't just kill him.
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Post by souljahbill14 on Mar 29, 2019 12:55:25 GMT
Y’all, while we do have a certain amount of control over Shep, we don’t have absolute control. It doesn’t matter how much you headcanon Shep hating Liara, he doesn’t. You may but Shep doesn’t. It’s written Shep and Liara are close so it is what it is. I don’t find Garrus to be particularly awesome but he’s written as Shep’s best friend so I go with it. It’s not that big of a deal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 12:58:27 GMT
Then, why aren't you angry about the 5 people you're forced to have on your team and the krogan on ice you're forced to load into your hold?
So you want me to be angry about those? Why? Is there a requirement to be angry at them? My Shepard has no use for Jack. Would rather have put Mordin on the crew instead of having him as a squadmate. Vakarian wasted two years shooting bad guys instead of making any effort to find a way to stop the reapers. My Shepard likes Lawson. Jacob could have been left off the roster. His gravity is one mean mother wasn't that impressive. You're still dodging. The fact is, you're simply not as angry about them as you are about Liara. The difference in your tone is telling. I don't "want" you to be angry at all.
ETA: What I really don't get about you is how you expect everyone to just accept a canon choice for the ending by insisting they can head canon that the "details have changed' or that the other endings exist in "some other reality" when you get so extremely upset over a little hug because there's no onscreen way around it. If a canon ending is declared there is no getting around that the others don't exist in the game's reality. It's as forced on everyone as Liara's hug.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 14:00:24 GMT
You're still dodging. The fact is, you're simply not as angry about them as you are about Liara. Dodging? No. You just can't accept that I'm not that angry as you call it about other characters as I am about t'soni. Simple. None of them did the crap she did. The good thing is that I can have those characters die on the suicide mission if, as you call it, I'm angry. I see you're posting an assumption. I don't expect everyone to accept a canon ending. You keep bringing up that I say the guy said the details have changed. Why does that bother so much that you have post it a few of your other posts? With the what-the-crap hug. Why can't my Shepard give Conrad a hug? How about hugging Udina? My Shepard likes the guy. What makes the asari any more important than others that can't be hugged? Bioware made her more important than others. Even LI. Look at the broker dlc. The broker throws his desk. What does Shepard do? Apparently Shepard has to protect the asari instead of his/her LI. It's too bad that Thane, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Jack and Tali can't get in Shepard face about that. It tells them he/she doesn't care about them. They end the relationship. When seen in ME3, their tone towards Shepard is different.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 15:38:22 GMT
You're still dodging. The fact is, you're simply not as angry about them as you are about Liara. Dodging? No. You just can't accept that I'm not that angry as you call it about other characters as I am about t'soni. Simple. None of them did the crap she did. The good thing is that I can have those characters die on the suicide mission if, as you call it, I'm angry. I see you're posting an assumption. I don't expect everyone to accept a canon ending. You keep bringing up that I say the guy said the details have changed. Why does that bother so much that you have post it a few of your other posts? With the what-the-crap hug. Why can't my Shepard give Conrad a hug? How about hugging Udina? My Shepard likes the guy. What makes the asari any more important than others that can't be hugged? Bioware made her more important than others. Even LI. Look at the broker dlc. The broker throws his desk. What does Shepard do? Apparently Shepard has to protect the asari instead of his/her LI. It's too bad that Thane, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Jack and Tali can't get in Shepard face about that. It tells them he/she doesn't care about them. They end the relationship. When seen in ME3, their tone towards Shepard is different. Yes, you've been dodging because whenever someone asks you, you retort about little oversights in what they've asked rather than just answer the question. In the case above, I answered the question for you... you're not as angry... but it took three posts to get you to admit that. Why am I equating it to the endings... well, it's canon in ME that Shepard and Liara are good friends despite the stuff she's done. In a similar way, it's also canon that Shepard is friends with Garrus... and it bothers you.
I'm not bothered by those canon decisions made by Bioware about what sorts of personalities the NPC's have or how the player character feels about every NPC in the game. I think some of those choices are absolutely needed to help keep the story intact.
It bothers me more that a canon about the endings would take away a choice already given by Bioware. You are among the group of people constantly telling me that it doesn't take away that choice... that I can just reconcile it to "details chainging" or head canon "another reality"; but for me, it just doesn't work that way. Why, because I want to be able to place the various Shepards I've created into the galaxy on an ongoing basis. They made different ending choices BECAUSE they had different sets of values. If a canon ending choice is made, I can't reconcile them into that galaxy going forward. Much like your Shepard would have never hugged Liara, various ones of mine would have NEVER chosen to destroy the Reapers because that isn't who I made them to be.
A canon ending choice, IMO, is far worse than not allowing Shepard to not hug Liara BECAUSE not hugging Liara was ALWAYS the canon. With the endings, we were given a choice and declaring a canon now just makes Bioware an "Indian giver" (for lack of a better term, no office to anyone intended).
However, all of that said... I do admit that I care more than I should. At my age and in my current state of health and given the number of years before another ME game is likely to be released, odds are I won't be around to play it. I don't know why I care like I do... I just do. I don't want to see Bioware reneg on what they said they wouldn't do and what they absolutely tried to avoid doing by creating the ending choices to start with and then by responding to the flak by creating the EC.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 15:59:54 GMT
In a similar way, it's also canon that Shepard is friends with Garrus... and it bothers you. There is Shepard without Vakarian. Can you provide a link with me constantly telling you that it doesn't take away the choice?
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2019 16:18:08 GMT
She gets her own DLC in ME2 but even so is required in order to have access to Thane and Samara. You just have to talk to her and hug her once. If this is a problem, why aren't you angry about the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missions in ME2? It's just a matter of shoehorning her in just to have her there. Just like shoehorning her voice into MEA when everyone else from the MET was ignored. This is just one example among many, the rest of which you conveniently ignored. It works in context to the rest not as an individual tidbit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 16:18:55 GMT
In a similar way, it's also canon that Shepard is friends with Garrus... and it bothers you. There is Shepard without Vakarian. Can you provide a link with me constantly telling you that it doesn't take away the choice? See... dodging again.. You know very well you've told me that it can be reconciled by just syaing it's "details changing over time." I've said that effectively makes the choice false and non-existent and you've said that it doesn't. You can look back in your own post history yourself. I don't have to link to it for you.
True, you can decide that Garrus dies in ME2; however, the vast majority of players do play ME2 in such a way that everyone survives (and if they don't succeed in that the first time, most will go back and replay the SM until they manage to get everyone to survive). So, if majority is to rule for the ME3 endings, then majority should rule for Garrus... canon, he lives and he's your best bro.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2019 16:21:24 GMT
Grunt does not have to be released from the tank. No, but you are forced to take his tank on board. You can't just kill him. Tell me who else was forced into FOUR ME games. Who, that was in all three games, can't be killed until the very last bit of the MET? You have no case here. It's not a matter of single incidents but her presence and immortality everywhere. She's a Mary Sue.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 16:24:13 GMT
No, but you are forced to take his tank on board. You can't just kill him. Tell me who else was forced into FOUR ME games. Who, that was in all three games, can't be killed until the very last bit of the MET? You have no case here. It's not a matter of single incidents but her presence and immortality everywhere. She's a Mary Sue. No one else but Liara... It's not a problem for me. It's Bioware's canon that Shepard is good friends with Liara, period. They deemed her essential to the story... full stop. You can whine about it all you like. Unlike the endings, it was NEVER a choice we were given.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 16:30:10 GMT
See... dodging again.. You know very well you've told me that it can be reconciled by just syaing it's "details changing over time." I've said that effectively makes the choice false and non-existent and you've said that it doesn't. You can look back in your own post history yourself. I don't have to link to it for you. So why is that line in the game?
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2019 16:36:19 GMT
Tell me who else was forced into FOUR ME games. Who, that was in all three games, can't be killed until the very last bit of the MET? You have no case here. It's not a matter of single incidents but her presence and immortality everywhere. She's a Mary Sue. No one else but Liara... It's not a problem for me. It's Bioware's canon that Shepard is good friends with Liara, period. They deemed her essential to the story... full stop. You can whine about it all you like. Unlike the endings, it was NEVER a choice we were given. Who cares if it's not a problem for you? My dislike of her isn't about you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 16:49:04 GMT
See... dodging again.. You know very well you've told me that it can be reconciled by just syaing it's "details changing over time." I've said that effectively makes the choice false and non-existent and you've said that it doesn't. You can look back in your own post history yourself. I don't have to link to it for you. So why is that line in the game?
It's just a line in the game. I can tell you what it's not there for... It's not there for the purpose of erasing three out of four ending choices given to the player... and we should all know that getting details wrong over time doesn't make the myths generated by the reality or even existing in an alternate reality. It's your way of constructing a whitewash of what making a canon choice out of one of the endings is doing. If Bioware decides to use it, they can, but I, for one, wouldn't delude myself into thinking the myth endings created by that move are real in some other reality. For me, they'd be gone, erased... along with any of my Shepards who made those remaining choices... and that would upset me, yes (if I'm still around to get upset0... but probably far less than you're upset about a little hug from Liara.
My preference is that Bioware would reconcile all their endings in such a way that they all arrive at the same state for the galaxy in the future.
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Post by sil on Mar 29, 2019 16:57:40 GMT
Ignoring the obvious fact that Liara changed into an entirely different character between ME1 and 2/3, the core reason that most players dislike her is that she feels forced on the player. She takes up Miranda's old room which makes her seem like the XO of the ship, it is easy to get into a romance with her completely unintentionally, and she is a forced squadmate for several important missions. The way to fix this for a remaster would be to improve content for all your other squadmates, to make it a little harder to enter a romance with her by accident, and to record additional lines so you can refuse to take her to Eden Prime and Thessia.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2019 17:14:43 GMT
I kind of get bringing Liara to Thessia. As for Eden Prime, A/K would be far better choices because they were there at the very start. Liara was never there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 17:15:03 GMT
Ignoring the obvious fact that Liara changed into an entirely different character between ME1 and 2/3, the core reason that most players dislike her is that she feels forced on the player. She takes up Miranda's old room which makes her seem like the XO of the ship, it is easy to get into a romance with her completely unintentionally, and she is a forced squadmate for several important missions. The way to fix this for a remaster would be to improve content for all your other squadmates, to make it a little harder to enter a romance with her by accident, and to record additional lines so you can refuse to take her to Eden Prime and Thessia. They shouldn't have to "fix" anything about their use of Liara in the story. It's their canon choice and it works within the story they wanted to tell.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 17:24:48 GMT
I kind of get bringing Liara to Thessia. As for Eden Prime, A/K would be far better choices because they were there at the very start. Liara was never there. The moment she whined about that's my home, I have to go, is when it would be best for her not to be on the mission. She's too emotional. She becomes a liability. Even on the shuttle she will say she can't be that callous. I wanted Steve to turn the shuttle around to get a squadmate that can be callous.
I do agree about A/K being on Prime since that's where it all started.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 17:29:25 GMT
I kind of get bringing Liara to Thessia. As for Eden Prime, A/K would be far better choices because they were there at the very start. Liara was never there. The moment she whined about that's my home, I have to go, is when it would be best for her not to be on the mission. She's too emotional. She becomes a liability. Even on the shuttle she will say she can't be that callous. I wanted Steve to turn the shuttle around to get a squadmate that can be callous.
I do agree about A/K being on Prime since that's where it all started.
... but the Shepard who would turn the shuttle around doesn't exist at all in the game... because it is canon that Shepard doesn't turn the shuttle around... again, full stop. You've made up a Shepard in your head who isn't any Shepard that exists within the reality of the game itself.
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