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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 17:35:27 GMT
Shepard turns the shuttle around? Hmmm. The ME3 I played I had Steve flying the shuttle.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 29, 2019 18:20:26 GMT
You're still dodging. The fact is, you're simply not as angry about them as you are about Liara. Dodging? No. You just can't accept that I'm not that angry as you call it about other characters as I am about t'soni. Simple. None of them did the crap she did. The good thing is that I can have those characters die on the suicide mission if, as you call it, I'm angry. I see you're posting an assumption. I don't expect everyone to accept a canon ending. You keep bringing up that I say the guy said the details have changed. Why does that bother so much that you have post it a few of your other posts? With the what-the-crap hug. Why can't my Shepard give Conrad a hug? How about hugging Udina? My Shepard likes the guy. What makes the asari any more important than others that can't be hugged? Bioware made her more important than others. Even LI. Look at the broker dlc. The broker throws his desk. What does Shepard do? Apparently Shepard has to protect the asari instead of his/her LI. It's too bad that Thane, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Jack and Tali can't get in Shepard face about that. It tells them he/she doesn't care about them. They end the relationship. When seen in ME3, their tone towards Shepard is different. But again: what's the problem with talking to Liara at all, quite apart from how it goes? You have to talk to Harbinger himself if you want to do Arrival, is this a problem? I want the issue with Liara in vanilla ME2 to be stated precisely and I believe that it comes down to the fact that Shepard will always be nice to her, not the fact that you just have to talk to her at all. You just have to talk to her and hug her once. If this is a problem, why aren't you angry about the 6 people you're forced to have on your team or do their missions in ME2? It's just a matter of shoehorning her in just to have her there. Just like shoehorning her voice into MEA when everyone else from the MET was ignored. This is just one example among many, the rest of which you conveniently ignored. It works in context to the rest not as an individual tidbit. Then we misunderstood each other because I was talking specifically about ME2 without DLCs. I'm pretty convinced that things about Liara and everything around her in MEA are much worse than the voice btw. but that's a whole another topic. the core reason that most players dislike her is that she feels forced on the player. She takes up Miranda's old room which makes her seem like the XO of the ship, it is easy to get into a romance with her completely unintentionally, and she is a forced squadmate for several important missions And why do people complain about Liara if they don't about Miranda? You can say most of this above about her too: she acts like your boss during the SM and is the hardest to kill (not that I ever did this on purpose but still), you have to be with her on up to two missions, one of them priority plus is in the team through the entire game, you have to listen to her around every major event in ME2 and much more, is depicted as in a position of power on several occasions, steals Cerberus's accomplishments at resurrecting Shepard to make you feel obligated to respect her and has most useful and flashy powers in combat (Warp, Reave) at the expense of timeline consistency. If I felt pushed on with anyone, it'd be Miranda first and only then Liara. Inb4 Liara's out of place cameos here and there – they're too cringy to take them seriously.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 18:54:54 GMT
But again: what's the problem with talking to Liara at all, quite apart from how it goes? There's not a problem talking to her, though my Shepard has no interest in talking with her. The only time the player has to speak with Harbinger is if the dlc is played after the suicide mission. If not, the player will talk with the collector general. Did you not know that?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 29, 2019 20:32:51 GMT
She's not really needed for From Ashes. Shepard has more knowledge of the Protheans than Liara. She's redundant. It's obvious because Shepard is the one who has see and hear the video. Liara senses nothing. In fact, it's ludicrous to believe the SB even has time to go on archaeological digs. She'd lose control of things so fast her head would be spinning and a new SB would be installed. I also don't think she's a realistic requirement for Mars. It's not like they need an archaeologist. This stuff is already dug up. It just needs someone to study it all just like Cerberus manages. Liara could be useful as the SB and providing intel and some places to go that would help build alliances, or recover useful relics and tech. I understand the meta reason for her presence but she's just not necessary for the roles given to her. Shepard has the cipher. The asari was never needed for ME3. Instead of Shepard wasting away for 6 months, have her/him at Mars studying the ruins. The plans are found. Maybe in the remake, the cipher can play a much larger role than was seen in the trilogy especially ME3. To be fair I thought that shepard giving himself up was realistic since otherwise the batarians would have attacked the alliance. His whole "arrest" and trial were a way to keep the batarians from attacking. So it made sense.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 29, 2019 20:36:04 GMT
Ignoring the obvious fact that Liara changed into an entirely different character between ME1 and 2/3, the core reason that most players dislike her is that she feels forced on the player. She takes up Miranda's old room which makes her seem like the XO of the ship, it is easy to get into a romance with her completely unintentionally, and she is a forced squadmate for several important missions. The way to fix this for a remaster would be to improve content for all your other squadmates, to make it a little harder to enter a romance with her by accident, and to record additional lines so you can refuse to take her to Eden Prime and Thessia. To be fair the same can be said about ashley in ME1. I have accidently romanced her just by being nice. So in ME1 this happens alot with the LI's
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 29, 2019 21:05:38 GMT
I hate to be that guy but the people that hate liara are gonna argue with you about this regardless. I really don't understand the hate but everyone has their opinion and it's more about them not wanting her there then some story problem. My dislike of Liara grew over time and I have reasons. To start with, if you've begun the process of romancing A/K, she will stay say stuff like "but you really like me, too, right?" Can A/K do that if you start romancing Liara first? She's required to move the plot along in order for Shep to put that last pieces of the cipher/beacon info together. She gets her own DLC in ME2 but even so is required in order to have access to Thane and Samara. As for becoming the SB...nah, I know people try to say it's possible but I challenge anyone to find an archaeologist in the world who can seamlessly move into marketing information - having a spy network and instant respect (which for Liara occurred in the span of two years). Let's not even get into her fetish for Shepard memorabilia and her decision to let Shep's friends know that he might be alive. She's one selfish woman. In ME3, she's required on Mars and again on Eden Prime (the latter of which is utter crap). I'm sorry, but Liara was overused and the very definition of a Mary Sue. In ME1 if your female then kaiden will gets jealous if your with liara thus shoe horning fem shep to either be a dick or date him and the same can be said for liara or if the player is male then the same as male shep and ashley. Look to each is own but at least be honest your complaining about liara is because you don't like her more then any writing. Yes some of the stuff is sub par writing. However why doesn't shep just shoot kenson in arrival when shep finds out she is indoctrinated instead shep hesitates several times. Why does shep
not shoot at saren at virmire when he is flying away. Shep should have at least tried. Why does shep turn against TIM even if he had been friendly with cerberus at the end of ME2 and let them keep the collector base. Why don't anderson and sheps other squadmates and old friends question why he came back to life after two years and suddenly joined ceberus and was given a new normandy be cerberus as well. I mean garrus and tali have a conversation with shepard about it but that's it. Only ashley or kaiden call shep on it.
Huh how about why didn't shepard or liara just shoot that asari spectre in the shadow broker dlc while she was wounded before she could grab a hostage. Oh why did thane not shoot kai leng from a distance rather then run to him while firing a pistol. Or why didn't shepard shoot kai leng on multiple occasions rather then stop and talk to him. Or why didn't Anderson use his authority as a councilor to beef up the alliance's military rather then sit and do nothing after the rest of the council decided to do nothing. Don't tell me anderson couldn't have used his authority to get more ships for the alliance at least.
I could keep going on and on and on. Yes liara was in all three games and some stuff was required. However this is more about hating her then anything else. There are a ton of story holes you could go after for other things and not just liara. Also ME1 was the only game that liara was a mary sue character and she had alot happen to her since sheps ship went down and he died. That is why she changed and became more ruthless.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 21:31:04 GMT
Shepard has the cipher. The asari was never needed for ME3. Instead of Shepard wasting away for 6 months, have her/him at Mars studying the ruins. The plans are found. Maybe in the remake, the cipher can play a much larger role than was seen in the trilogy especially ME3. To be fair I thought that shepard giving himself up was realistic since otherwise the batarians would have attacked the alliance. His whole "arrest" and trial were a way to keep the batarians from attacking. So it made sense. Then why didn't the batarians attack the Alliance, if they're the one's who destroy the relay?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 29, 2019 21:43:05 GMT
That is why she changed and became more ruthless. More ruthless? Is that why she said she can't be that callous on the shuttle just before landing on Thessia. She sounds like a little wimp. Then when Leng runs towards her, what does she do? Nothing. She stands with one of her tentacles stuck up her butt and ends up flying on Kai Leng Airlines. She cries like a baby after the broker is killed. Is that a ruthless trait? For asari it might be. I don't know.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 29, 2019 23:27:57 GMT
That is why she changed and became more ruthless. More ruthless? Is that why she said she can't be that callous on the shuttle just before landing on Thessia. She sounds like a little wimp. Then when Leng runs towards her, what does she do? Nothing. She stands with one of her tentacles stuck up her butt and ends up flying on Kai Leng Airlines. She cries like a baby after the broker is killed. Is that a ruthless trait? For asari it might be. I don't know. someone said she had a massive personality change from ME1 and that's what I was refering to. She was pretty laid back about those people dying in illium. But no she wasn't a psychopath.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 29, 2019 23:30:06 GMT
To be fair I thought that shepard giving himself up was realistic since otherwise the batarians would have attacked the alliance. His whole "arrest" and trial were a way to keep the batarians from attacking. So it made sense. Then why didn't the batarians attack the Alliance, if they're the one's who destroy the relay?
Because it was SHEPARD who destroyed the relay and he wasn't with the alliance then. The alliance were blaming it all on shepard and shepard knew it and also knew that when the reapers showed up to attack the batarians or something he would get out quickly but until then he was preventing a war between the alliance and batarians. It was a sound decision
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Post by themikefest on Mar 30, 2019 0:18:53 GMT
Then why didn't the batarians attack the Alliance, if they're the one's who destroy the relay?
Because it was SHEPARD who destroyed the relay and he wasn't with the alliance then. The alliance were blaming it all on shepard and shepard knew it and also knew that when the reapers showed up to attack the batarians or something he would get out quickly but until then he was preventing a war between the alliance and batarians. It was a sound decision No kidding Shepard destroys the relay, if the player chooses to play the dlc. If the dlc is not completed, its the Alliance that destroys it. So why didn't the batarians attack the Alliance for that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 4:24:00 GMT
Because it was SHEPARD who destroyed the relay and he wasn't with the alliance then. The alliance were blaming it all on shepard and shepard knew it and also knew that when the reapers showed up to attack the batarians or something he would get out quickly but until then he was preventing a war between the alliance and batarians. It was a sound decision No kidding Shepard destroys the relay, if the player chooses to play the dlc. If the dlc is not completed, its the Alliance that destroys it. So why didn't the batarians attack the Alliance for that? According to the Batarians, they are just a shell of what the proud race they once were and are just barely hanging on after having been pushed out of a goodly portion of their territory by the Alliance. I suspect the reason, therefore, is that the Batarians are simply not strong enough to risk attacking the Alliance (much the same as Sovereign is presumed to be too vulnerable (even with the support of the geth) to just openly attack the Citadel without the Conduit).
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 30, 2019 4:59:05 GMT
Even if the batarians thought they could take on the Alliance, attacking the humans means war with the rest of the Citadel races.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 30, 2019 11:24:10 GMT
In other words, it was just a lame reason to have Shepard detained for 6 months instead of trying to find way to stop the reapers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 11:46:16 GMT
In other words, it was just a lame reason to have Shepard detained for 6 months instead of trying to find way to stop the reapers. If you say so So don't do the DLC and have Shepard detained for all the other "stuff" he/she has done. Since becoming a spectre, he/she has hardly been the model Alliance soldier even in ME1... running off all over the galaxy taking private contracts instead of looking for Saren, hacking into locked crates and whatnot to loot for personal gain, privately mining minerals and apparently just stockpiling them, collecting historical artifacts and again just stockpiling them instead of turning them over to the Alliance... generally buying into the idea that spectres are above the law. Then he/she essentially goes AWOL for more than two years and joins a rogue blackc ops organization and continues on looting the galaxy.
If you do the DLC, head canon that Hackett blew the Batarian threat out of proportion just to con Shepard into turning himself/herself in for all those other things and to reign in a human spectre who was letting things go to his/her head . Remember, Hackett could tell Shepard in ME1 that he/she isn't the only one who bends the rules to get things done.
In short, Arrival wasnt needed to find an excuse to throw Shepard in the brig for 6 months. It was an idea added into the game for a DLC.
Is there anything about Mass Effect that you like, I wonder?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 30, 2019 12:13:47 GMT
Is there anything about Mass Effect that you like, I wonder? So because I mention some things I don't like it causes you to ask that question? If there was nothing I liked, I wouldn't have played the trilogy more than once.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 12:18:44 GMT
Is there anything about Mass Effect that you like, I wonder? So because I mention some things I don't like it causes you to ask that question? If there was nothing I liked, I wouldn't have played the trilogy more than once. Then, how about answering the question instead of dodging it... Let's hear a list of things you like about ME's story. Let's hear some tales about where the dialogue absolutely fits the story. Places where things are adequately explained, etc.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 30, 2019 12:31:52 GMT
Why don't you make a thread about what people like about Mass Effect? I'm sure folks will respond. It would be interesting to read what people liked. I'm I dodging the question? Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 13:12:49 GMT
Why don't you make a thread about what people like about Mass Effect? I'm sure folks will respond. It would be interesting to read what people liked. I'm I dodging the question? Yes. I don't make threads. I tried a couple of times a long while ago and got very little response so I gave up. I'll leave that task to others who tend to word things better than I.
Why dodge that particular question though. There's lots I like about ME's brand of story telling. I've mentioned several times that it's one of the few games that facilitates constructing different personalities for the PC. I've also admitted that was a weaker point in Andromeda. The new dialogue system refined the details of a paragon so one could choose any of the options without making Ryder seem schizophrenic, but it did narrow the range. I did identify that as a risk when we first found out about the new system they were planning to use. I would like to see them return to something with a broader range like the old paragon/renegade one; but that will also likely cause some things to appear out of place and motivations to not quite line up... just as some of the various things you've mentioned about the OT.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 30, 2019 19:44:03 GMT
In other words, it was just a lame reason to have Shepard detained for 6 months instead of trying to find way to stop the reapers. To be fair what could shepard have really done? I mean he doesn't have the authority to have ships built and such or anything else. I think him destroying the star system was more to show how far he would go to stop the reapers and how much would have to be sacrificed.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 30, 2019 19:46:44 GMT
Even if the batarians thought they could take on the Alliance, attacking the humans means war with the rest of the Citadel races. Not if the alliance destroyed a relay. Then the rest of the races would stay back. But even if they did join the alliance then they would still be fighting eachother when the reapers show up.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 30, 2019 19:48:43 GMT
No kidding Shepard destroys the relay, if the player chooses to play the dlc. If the dlc is not completed, its the Alliance that destroys it. So why didn't the batarians attack the Alliance for that? According to the Batarians, they are just a shell of what the proud race they once were and are just barely hanging on after having been pushed out of a goodly portion of their territory by the Alliance. I suspect the reason, therefore, is that the Batarians are simply not strong enough to risk attacking the Alliance (much the same as Sovereign is presumed to be too vulnerable (even with the support of the geth) to just openly attack the Citadel without the Conduit). If they thought the alliance was destroying relays then yeah the batarians would have fought because there was no chance they could let such a horrific act go unchallenged. (if they didn't know about the reapers then it is just a horrific act to kill batarians.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 21:30:01 GMT
According to the Batarians, they are just a shell of what the proud race they once were and are just barely hanging on after having been pushed out of a goodly portion of their territory by the Alliance. I suspect the reason, therefore, is that the Batarians are simply not strong enough to risk attacking the Alliance (much the same as Sovereign is presumed to be too vulnerable (even with the support of the geth) to just openly attack the Citadel without the Conduit). If they thought the alliance was destroying relays then yeah the batarians would have fought because there was no chance they could let such a horrific act go unchallenged. (if they didn't know about the reapers then it is just a horrific act to kill batarians. The Batarians knew who destroyed the relay... we are told as much in ME3 when we encounter Balak or his stand in (if Balak is killed in ME1) and the other wounded Batarian whose life support we can decide to turn off (forget his name). The Batarians were simply not strong enough to challenge even such a horrific act by launching an open attack on the Alliance without the support of the other Citadel races.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 30, 2019 23:19:08 GMT
In other words, it was just a lame reason to have Shepard detained for 6 months instead of trying to find way to stop the reapers. To be fair what could shepard have really done? I mean he doesn't have the authority to have ships built and such or anything else. I think him destroying the star system was more to show how far he would go to stop the reapers and how much would have to be sacrificed. Shepard has the cipher. Have him/her go to Mars to study the ruins. Go to Ilos to use the cipher to see if there any information that might be retrieved that could help. Maybe go back to Eden Prime to see if there's more than just finding the beacon. Doesn't matter if Shepard doesn't find any solution, it matters that an attempt was made. At least 6 months won't be wasted doing nothing.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 30, 2019 23:19:33 GMT
If they thought the alliance was destroying relays then yeah the batarians would have fought because there was no chance they could let such a horrific act go unchallenged. (if they didn't know about the reapers then it is just a horrific act to kill batarians. The Batarians knew who destroyed the relay... we are told as much in ME3 when we encounter Balak or his stand in (if Balak is killed in ME1) and the other wounded Batarian whose life support we can decide to turn off (forget his name). The Batarians were simply not strong enough to challenge even such a horrific act by launching an open attack on the Alliance without the support of the other Citadel races. You mean they knew shepard did it? Well that is why they arrested shepard.
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