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Post by themikefest on Aug 20, 2019 18:55:53 GMT
Bioware didn't write themselves in a corner. The guy did say that the details have changed, and one more story. Bioware put in that dialogue for a reason. What reason that is, only they know.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 19:57:03 GMT
I didn't see a "to be continued" at the end of ME3. I saw a "Shepard defeated the Reapers" and Bioware thanking us for coming along for the ride.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 20, 2019 20:42:02 GMT
I thought it read as a commercial for DLC, myself.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 22:09:55 GMT
All the DLC comes before the ending.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 23:09:40 GMT
I thought it read as a commercial for DLC, myself. That's actually the way I read it as well... with the Citadel DLC being that "one more story" - something the Stargazer hadn't yet told the kid, but not implying at all that that story involves a continuation of events beyond the end of the Reaper War. The Citadel DLC clearly takes place before the end of the Reaper War as Shepard and his/her LI or Joker are clearly referencing finding a way to win. It also ended with a statement of finality - "It's been a good ride," which is something to be said at the end of the ride.
It's wishful thinking that they were hinting at a continuation beyond the Reaper War, let alone saying to us that they intended to create a canon ending to that war. Could it be used as a loophole? Sure; but Bioware doesn't need such a loophole to make canon anyways, so why bother? Clearly, everything they have said so far is that they are wanting to avoid making any ending in ME3 canon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 23:57:02 GMT
The Stargazer is telling the kid about all the stuff Shepard did. So if he wants to tell another story, he's talking about something that happened in the past.
eg. Shepard retaking Omega, or the Battle of the Citadel are all stories that Shepard did in the past.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 21, 2019 0:11:35 GMT
And if those dlc's are completed, why is the guy still saying one more story?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2019 0:46:47 GMT
And if those dlc's are completed, why is the guy still saying one more story? Because the old man is agreeing like a parent would when a kid being tucked into bed but wanting another bedtime story. No more and no less.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 0:50:21 GMT
And if those dlc's are completed, why is the guy still saying one more story? Because the Citadel DLC was released March 2013 and the Extended Cut was released before then (June 2012). So, you play the extended cut, see the old man's scene... and it's hinting about the DLC that is going to be released in 9 months. It could also be referencing the Omega DLC released in November 2012.
From Mass Effect Wiki:
"Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is a DLC pack for Mass Effect 3. It was released on June 26, 2012[1] for all platforms worldwide, except for PlayStation 3 in Europe, where it was released on July 4, 2012. Originally announced as available for free download until April 12, 2014,[1][2][3] "
"Mass Effect 3: Citadel is a DLC pack for Mass Effect 3. It opens new areas of the Citadel, offers new attractions on the Citadel, and an opportunity to connect with characters from the series. The pack was announced on February 21, 2013 and was released on March 5, 2013 worldwide for Xbox 360 and PC; for PlayStation 3, it was released March 5, 2013 worldwide except in Europe, where it was released on March 6, 2013.[1] Mass Effect 3: Citadel is the final DLC pack released for Mass Effect 3.[2]?
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Post by themikefest on Aug 21, 2019 1:04:15 GMT
That means what? The guy still says one more story even after those dlc's have been released.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 1:14:28 GMT
That means what? The guy still says one more story even after those dlc's have been released. Read properly - The EC was released first (June 2012), then the Omega DLC (Novemeber 2012) and then the Citadel DLC (March 2013). The old man's scene is part of the EC.
To this day, when I play Andormeda, the tease about the Quarian ark and even a sequel game still exists in the game. The DLC was cancelled. Are you saying that just because you replay ME3 today and you still can see the old man's scene that it's some sort of promise to continue beyond the endings? You're really stretching. The old man is telling stories about Shepard... not necessarily in chonological order or even in the order you play them. It's a teaser for stuff that, at the time that scene was made by Bioware, had not yet been released... but had been all released as of March 2013.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 21, 2019 1:19:23 GMT
And if those dlc's are completed, why is the guy still saying one more story? Because... writing an alternate version of the scene which would only play if all DLCs had been completed would have been an idiotic waste of money?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2019 1:20:03 GMT
That means what? The guy still says one more story even after those dlc's have been released. Read properly - The EC was released first (June 2012), then the Omega DLC (Novemeber 2012) and then the Citadel DLC (March 2013). The old man's scene is part of the EC.
To this day, when I play Andormeda, the tease about the Quarian ark and even a sequel game still exists in the game. The DLC was cancelled. Are you saying that just because you replay ME3 today and you still can see the old man's scene that it's some sort of promise to continue beyond the endings? You're really stretching. The old man is telling stories about Shepard... not necessarily in chonological order or even in the order you play them. It's a teaser for stuff that, at the time that scene was made by Bioware, had not yet been released... but had been all released as of March 2013.
If the Quarian Ark DLC was even ever going to be a thing. The mention of it in the game could've been a reference to the upcoming book or something that will be in the sequel.
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Post by melbella on Aug 21, 2019 1:21:51 GMT
What's your explanation for Garrus saying, while shooting bottles with Shepard, that he saved Shepard on Ilos, Feros and Noveria? How does that happen if he wasn't recruited in ME1?
Garrus doesn't save Shepard's ass on Ilos, Feros, or Noveria even if he is recruited. That's just Garrus tooting his own horn again.
However, if not recruited in ME1, Garrus was still a C-Sec officer, so there's no telling what he might have been doing behind the scenes to help out the pursuit.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 21, 2019 1:23:07 GMT
The old man's scene is part of the EC. No its not. He was saying one more story before the cut was released.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 1:58:47 GMT
The old man's scene is part of the EC. No its not. He was saying one more story before the cut was released. Even worse then... it was part of the original ending released in March of 2012... hinting at any or the DLC's planned to be released after the game was released. "Completion" of the DLC's has nothing to do with whether or not they would hint at a future story based on those DLC's being released after the release of the main game.
... and EVEN if you deny that the DLC's are separate little stories about Shepard, it's STILL not a promise to relate a story that takes place after the ending of the Reaper War (where, in the majority of the endings, Shepard winds up dead).
They don't need the line from the old man to declare a canon and move past the end of the Reaper War. They were NOT written into a corner because they have the power to just erase the corner. They don't need the permission or blessings from the fans to do so. It's the fans who have wanted them to believe that they were in a corner and have been nattering at them that there was only one way out of that corner. The truth is they have all the options in the world... some of which some of the fans just won't like. The whole bottom line of this whole GD debate is that Bioware has never wanted to declare a canon. They have expressly said so.. and they expressly declared ME3 as being the end of Shepard's story and the end of the Mass Effect Trilogy. They have the power to reverse their minds... but they have never promised to do so.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 3:55:35 GMT
Bioware owns and controls the Mass Effect IP, where it goes next is ultimately up to them.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2019 11:11:13 GMT
Mass Effect 3 didn't write itself into a corner Is that why we moved to Andromeda? because they didn't write themselves into a corner? Why didn't we continue in the Milky Way, then? Why did we need to move to another galaxy? And if you're going to go to a new galaxy because you want to do new stuff, why try to recreate the Milky Way? Why try to remake ME1 again? Why did we add so many new things with Andromeda that are exact replicas of things we already had in the Milky Way? They fucked up. They didn't think it through and because Edmonton didn't care about it, as the plan was to dump it to Montreal and leave it to them to figure it all out, which they admittedly didn't, or at least not in a compelling enough way, evident by the state of the studio (defunct), sales (below EA's expectations) and critical reception.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2019 11:17:56 GMT
Bioware owns and controls the Mass Effect IP, where it goes next is ultimately up to them. Where it goes next is, ultimately, up to EA and the fans. If Bioware goes somewhere with ME that the fans don't want (again), there will be no new Mass Effect. And if they build a new franchise to go again where the fans don't want, provided there still is a Bioware, there will be no other entry in the new franchise as well.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2019 12:16:05 GMT
A second game in Andromeda (it can be called something else) is perfect. It is still fresh enough to basically go into whatever direction they wish. As was Andromeda and Anthem and both failed. Both critically and financially. They can change the main character, squad mates etc, because no one really has a large enough emotional attachment to anyone of the first Andromeda game Leaving you with no attachment to the franchise and therefore investment, so a complete lack of a hook. There are no huge plot or story elements to work around, a lot of the work on the engine, graphics models etc is already done and simply requires some polish It will be on a new version of the Frostbyte engine for next gen consoles, so no, that is definitely not true. They can make the setting as early and as late is they wish in Andromeda. What reason is there to NOT continue in Andromeda? No interest in Andromeda. No interest means no hype, no hype means no sales. A remaster is nice and would bring in some money, but it would be a way to buy time. A much needed commodity. By no means will this restore faith in BioWare, because everything was already there It is a great way to reintroduce and instill interest in Mass Effect. But refreshing the good games in the franchise. A remake is risky because it risks breaking what people love of the original Absolutely. And obviously, as things are right now, there's a higher chance they ruin it, rather than making it better Indeed. But if they can pull it off, it could be a huge hit. I can't see the need for a remake, a la REmake 2 for example, since the games were expanded enough on their own. Unless you want to remake the Reaper plot, without touching the characters up or, most likely, down. An alternative parallel universe is cliché and honestly unimpressive, but it does allow freedom to rewrite everything how they wish. But the fault in this is that it has the potential to undermine player choice. They can get around this if they plan the game well and have completely new characters, a new protagonist, a completely different focus instead. I'm not sure if people would dig an alternate ME2 where Shepard never died and the Collectors never existed for example. It changes the core of the games too much. But imagine if in an alternate universe, you are a human fulfilling the role that Archangel did in ME2, building a team to reshape Omega for the better. The most important thing is that Shepard never shows up to take you on some suicide mission, and Shepard nor any of the important characters of the canon game are important for this game. The whole game would be independent of the main events of the trilogy. There are countless things that could be done in this way. But again, it is cliche and honestly a bit lazy when you start having multiple universes where different things happened. Again, by de-making, ignoring or distancing ME from everything the fans loved is only going to drive the fanbase further away. Choosing a Canon ending and creating a sequel based on that is by far the worst option. This is the only route for the next game that is guaranteed to kill one of those criteria I listed I don't see how. By default it undermines all the choices of a huge part of the existing fan base No more than a ME3 with Shepard already does. As a company that has been constantly saying that they value player's choice, well... Let's just say that I would skip buying that game on principle, and I'm sure many think the same way If you feel that way, then you absolutely should. Or they have to go the Pokemon route, releasing red, green and blue versions depending on the ME3 ending you chose. I don't see that happening. I don't see that either. So far, you haven't explained to me why they shouldn't do it, though, rather just explained to me why you don't want it. And it's your right not to want it. Just like I don't want the ME3 we got, or Andromeda, or Anthem, or Sonic: The Dark Brotherhood. But what I personally want or like is irrelevant, compared to what Bioware need to achieve for themselves as a company under EA.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2019 12:33:43 GMT
ME:A is an easy story to continue (and improve upon) in many different ways That isn't a hook, though. The potential that the game might be better this time, after a series of missteps, a lot of prejudice from critics and audience fatigue from underwhelming release after underwhelming release, Bioware coming out and saying "trust us guys, 5th time's the charm" means nothing to anyone anymore. Or at least to doesn't mean something to enough people to justify Mass Effect's/Bioware's existence financially. Much easier than trying yet again to deal with the multiple and varied issues people have been complaining about in the OT for many years now High EMS destroy ending, treat the characters that can be alive as being alive in development, simply have them absent in the new game, i.e. they don't appear and you don't reference them, if they died for that particular save import. Done.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 21, 2019 13:05:45 GMT
Even worse then... it was part of the original ending released in March of 2012... hinting at any or the DLC's planned to be released after the game was released. "Completion" of the DLC's has nothing to do with whether or not they would hint at a future story based on those DLC's being released after the release of the main game. Worse? Before the cut the guy told the kid the relays were destroyed no matter what, now he changed his story to where they weren't destroyed and the SR2 is able to fly off the unknown planet. He mentions how the squadmates magically appear on the unknown planet, but changes the story again to telling the kid about the what-the-crap evac scene. He even told the kid the squadmates bodies were seen dead near the beam, but then decides to change his story again to their bodies were vaporized by Harbinger. I guess that's part of the details that have changed over time. What other details have changed that he didn't tell the kid? Never said it was a promise. Here's what I said on the previous page That doesn't mean they will make a sequel to ME3 with/out Shepard. Ah yes, blame the fans. You seem convinced, for whatever reason, that the fans are forcing Bioware to do what they want. The only ones forcing Bioware to do whatever is EA. I would not be surprised if Bioware take bits of ideas from fans to put in the game they want to make. All the fans are doing is wanting to have this, that or the other thing happen. That doesn't mean it will happen. And as I've posted before, I will continue posting ideas of what the next game could be until Bioware confirms the next ME game.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 21, 2019 16:33:31 GMT
Mass Effect 3 didn't write itself into a corner Is that why we moved to Andromeda? because they didn't write themselves into a corner? Why didn't we continue in the Milky Way, then? Why did we need to move to another galaxy? And if you're going to go to a new galaxy because you want to do new stuff, why try to recreate the Milky Way? Why try to remake ME1 again? Why did we add so many new things with Andromeda that are exact replicas of things we already had in the Milky Way? They fucked up. They didn't think it through and because Edmonton didn't care about it, as the plan was to dump it to Montreal and leave it to them to figure it all out, which they admittedly didn't, or at least not in a compelling enough way, evident by the state of the studio (defunct), sales (below EA's expectations) and critical reception. They didn't fuck up. They ended their main series the way they wanted to plain and simple. And Andromeda? Mistakes were made but it is an overall good game imo.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2019 16:42:10 GMT
They ended their main series the way they wanted to plain and simple Without a way forward. Solid business strategy. And Andromeda? Mistakes were made but it is an overall good game imo. Irrelevant. The gaming journalists didn't like it, the reviewers didn't like it, it didn't sell as expected, no DLC was produced, the very first Bioware game not to receive any single player content as DLC since ME1, the first game in 10 years, since they even adopted DLC practices as a studio and Bioware Montreal closed shop. It is fair to say, no, it wasn't a game people generally thought was good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 17:01:51 GMT
Mass Effect 3 didn't write itself into a corner Is that why we moved to Andromeda? because they didn't write themselves into a corner? Why didn't we continue in the Milky Way, then? Why did we need to move to another galaxy? And if you're going to go to a new galaxy because you want to do new stuff, why try to recreate the Milky Way? Why try to remake ME1 again? Why did we add so many new things with Andromeda that are exact replicas of things we already had in the Milky Way? They fucked up. They didn't think it through and because Edmonton didn't care about it, as the plan was to dump it to Montreal and leave it to them to figure it all out, which they admittedly didn't, or at least not in a compelling enough way, evident by the state of the studio (defunct), sales (below EA's expectations) and critical reception. Andromeda was created as a contingency plan in case the Reapers succeeded in their harvest. The game tells us this.
Companies decide what kinds of products they want to sell, and you as a consumer decide whether it's worth your money. If the company doesn't have what you're looking for, you look elsewhere.
Besides, if what you say was true about the fans and EA deciding things, then we would have gotten ME4, and not Andromeda.
Whether Mass Effect has 3 games or 50 games, at some point, they're going to reach an end point. Same could be said for movies and such. LOTR is 3 movies long, and there hasn't been any more movies made since. Frodo gets the Ring in the first movie, and finally destroys it in the third movie. End of story. Nothing more to tell.
Shepard finds out about the Reapers in the first game, and finally ends the threat in the third game. End of story.
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