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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 18, 2020 18:23:02 GMT
First, most of what is on the Internet is garbage. What? I could have sworn Trump was PotUS! I've been lied to for 2 years now? Second, when making a case for your argument you are the one who has to go find sources, not tell others to do your work for you. What more sources do you want? I gave you budget and sales. Playstation store taking 30% of the digital cut, just as Steam, who basically set it as the industry standard. And I can't access any of the sites that show the retail stores' cut, because my work's network doesn't let me access these sites, but I believe that you can google "retail store video game sale cut".
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 18, 2020 18:24:55 GMT
I was under the impression that EA didn't have any specific numbers in terms of revenue. Where did that 50 million come from? EA gets a 70& cut of a sale's price from online retailers outside of Origin (PS Store, XBOX store) and 100& from Origin. Retailers give EA a 30% cut of a sale's price. At $60 a pop, you can do the math and then compensate for Origin sales and collector's edition sales. The net revenue to that comes just a bit below $50 million.
Edit: I think I may have fucked up the math somewhere.
Edit 2: Oh, right. I forgot to compensate for discount sales and the nvidia promotional campaign.
I'm not really seeing enough to work with here. Whatever number I would come up with would be entirely guesswork, because I wouldn't have the exact number of collectors' editions or whatever tier of edition people bought, or how many bought it on discount, etc..
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 18, 2020 18:33:05 GMT
I'm not really seeing enough to work with here. Whatever number I would come up with would be entirely guesswork, because I wouldn't have the exact number of collectors' editions or whatever tier of edition people bought, or how many bought it on discount, etc.. Take the most favourable guestimate you can, lower it by 3% for margin of error. Does it return EA more than $70 million US? If not, then it didn't make EA a profit. I added a clean $8 million US for origin and collector's edition sales, which is overwhelmingly generous, I think, as a price margin and came to ~$68 million. Like I said, it missed the mark by a few million, but enough to be considered a flop.
EDIT: Andromeda digital on PC sold less than 349.000 copies and therefore could not have made more than $2.1 million through Origin sales. It's safe to say that for the PS and XBOX sales came through their respective stores and not Origin. So I've already overestimated the origin sales cut.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 18, 2020 19:26:27 GMT
You can say that, but you're not an authority, clearly don't speak for the majority of the userbase and can't make for the large amount of sales required. Andromeda was clearly not the game people wanted and they didn't support it. Andromeda lost money, put Mass Effect on ice and had its studio shuttered. I want to say that I don't know what they were thinking having this "lesser" studio take the reigns of a major property, but then I remember that chasing the live service rainbow is a thing. Probably because Anthem.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Feb 19, 2020 2:52:50 GMT
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 19, 2020 3:09:16 GMT
Yeah, I noticed that, too. Also note that ME3 released on March 6 and was the long-awaited end of a trilogy. MEA (a whole new thing) released on March 21. ME3 had 25 days in its launch month, MEA only 10. Trying to compare ME1 sales to anything else in the series is also disingenuous, since it was an Xbox exclusive.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 15:33:10 GMT
So no, you don't have all the numbers you think you have. But that is the time period that Bioware and EA are interested in and the timeframe which led to Montreal getting shut down, Andromeda, effectively, canceled and Mass Effect shelved. So these are exactly the numbers that matter.
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 19, 2020 18:37:45 GMT
Andromeda didn't lose money... it just didn't meet sales expectations and make as much money as EA wanted. Couple that with a floundering Anthem production and needing to shore it up and you have Andromeda being shelved at the time.
Let's not act like Andromeda was such a failure that it lost money when every single indication has pointed to it making money, but nowhere near expectations.
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Post by Ascend on Feb 19, 2020 19:44:52 GMT
Obviously EA expects the sales of each Mass Effect iteration to increase. If they were actually paying attention they would have tempered their expectations a bit.
I wonder what would happen to the franchise if the IP got sold back to Microsoft.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 20, 2020 16:19:03 GMT
Andromeda didn't lose money Yes, it did. My most generous estimates put Andromeda topping at out $68 million US, with a 100 million CAD budget. In the timeframe EA wanted, Andromeda came up short by ~$7 million US. As I've said, maybe it made that amount up in the next week, for all I know, but by EA's wanted deadline, they came up short. It's not a huge loss, but it is a loss. Anthem, though, did break even, thanks to strong digital sales, so maybe that time they saved by ditching Andromeda and focusing on Anthem actually did help. Not in a way that is meaningful to us, but to Bioware it must have. Obviously EA expects the sales of each Mass Effect iteration to increase That is what one would logically expect from a healthy, thriving franchise. But ME isn't one of those. EA would be right to expect that, if the dev did their job competently. I wonder what would happen to the franchise if the IP got sold back to Microsoft. EA isn't selling any of those. They never have, to my knowledge and since they are anti-competitive, they seem eager to hoard IPs, even if they aren't actively using them.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2020 17:33:12 GMT
If Andromeda actually lost money, wouldn't this suggest that EA is basically lying to its investors when it says that Andromeda was a "significant contributor"? I mean, you can't significantly contribute to anything if you actually lost, can you?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 20, 2020 17:35:36 GMT
If Andromeda actually lost money, wouldn't this suggest that EA is basically lying to its investors when it says that Andromeda was a "significant contributor"? I mean, you can't significantly contribute to anything if you actually lost, can you? Not at all. It is a significant contributor to the net revenue of that quarter. Which is true. Wilson never lied. He didn't go into detail and was never brought into question. It was a significant contributor and it made money. It didn't recoup its budget, but that was never in question.
Even so, that it didn't recoup its entire budget in the specified time, doesn't mean it didn't make money eventually. So that it hadn't made back all the money, was just a footnote. Similarly, most big budget movies don't recoup their entire budget in their first weekend. ToR, for example, after many years, made EA money. So technically it wasn't a loss. By today, I am sure, Andromeda has more than recovered its budget, even made a hefty profit, but at the time, no, it hadn't.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2020 17:40:30 GMT
If Andromeda actually lost money, wouldn't this suggest that EA is basically lying to its investors when it says that Andromeda was a "significant contributor"? I mean, you can't significantly contribute to anything if you actually lost, can you? Not at all. It is a significant contributor to the net revenue of that quarter. Which is true. Wilson never lied. He didn't go into detail and was never brought into question. It was a significant contributor and it made money. It didn't recoup its budget, but that was never in question. That would be a nifty half-truth to bandy about. If a movie doesn't pull box office numbers that exceed its production budget, we don't say that it contributed to any given quarter for the studio, we just say that it flopped and lost money. I see no difference here.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 20, 2020 17:45:00 GMT
That would be a nifty half-truth to bandy about Welcome to corporate talk. It's not a half truth, by any measure, it is the truth. If a movie doesn't pull box office numbers that exceed its production budget, we don't say that it contributed to any given quarter for the studio, we just say that it flopped and lost money. I see no difference here. It was close enough. EA touted numbers of other stats to overstate its success, to impress investors that aren't that in the know-how of video games. Perhaps MTX revenue, which I've found no numbers of anywhere, to the point that I doubt it would have any influence at all, may have been good enough, to push it over the edge, but for the few million difference, Andrew could as well call it even. It just wasn't a great Return on Investment.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2020 17:52:49 GMT
Ah corporate speak, where manure is actually a delicacy.
I'd simply consider it a lie of omission.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 20, 2020 18:10:19 GMT
If Andromeda actually lost money, wouldn't this suggest that EA is basically lying to its investors when it says that Andromeda was a "significant contributor"? I mean, you can't significantly contribute to anything if you actually lost, can you? Don’t bring logic into their rant.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 20, 2020 18:27:51 GMT
Don’t bring logic into their rant if you read up, you'll see it is perfectly logical.
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 20, 2020 18:34:00 GMT
Andromeda didn't lose money Yes, it did. My most generous estimates put Andromeda topping at out $68 million US, with a 100 million CAD budget. In the timeframe EA wanted, Andromeda came up short by ~$7 million US. As I've said, maybe it made that amount up in the next week, for all I know, but by EA's wanted deadline, they came up short. It's not a huge loss, but it is a loss. Anthem, though, did break even, thanks to strong digital sales, so maybe that time they saved by ditching Andromeda and focusing on Anthem actually did help. Not in a way that is meaningful to us, but to Bioware it must have. Obviously EA expects the sales of each Mass Effect iteration to increase That is what one would logically expect from a healthy, thriving franchise. But ME isn't one of those. EA would be right to expect that, if the dev did their job competently. I wonder what would happen to the franchise if the IP got sold back to Microsoft. EA isn't selling any of those. They never have, to my knowledge and since they are anti-competitive, they seem eager to hoard IPs, even if they aren't actively using them. Yes... I'm going to take the estimates of someone who is extremely biased in this instance and not the word of a company that could be taken to the cleaners for lying to their investors...
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Post by griffith82 on Feb 20, 2020 21:32:45 GMT
I disagree. Andromeda didnt suck and Bioware still makes good games. You can say that, but you're not an authority, clearly don't speak for the majority of the userbase and can't make for the large amount of sales required. Andromeda was clearly not the game people wanted and they didn't support it. Andromeda lost money, put Mass Effect on ice and had its studio shuttered. Neither do you. You speak for a vocal minority and more importantly yourself.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ascend on Feb 20, 2020 22:21:36 GMT
EA isn't selling any of those. They never have, to my knowledge and since they are anti-competitive, they seem eager to hoard IPs, even if they aren't actively using them. It was a hypothetical question.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Feb 21, 2020 2:39:00 GMT
Andromeda didn't lose money... it just didn't meet sales expectations and make as much money as EA wanted. Couple that with a floundering Anthem production and needing to shore it up and you have Andromeda being shelved at the time. Let's not act like Andromeda was such a failure that it lost money when every single indication has pointed to it making money, but nowhere near expectations. The issue isn't financial, imho. It's that upon release, andromeda was a laughingstock. You still hear "my face is tired" from time to time. It's going to be hard to shed that image.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 14:11:13 GMT
You speak for a vocal minority and more importantly yourself I disagree. More people didn't buy Andromeda, than bought Andromeda. So in speaking on Andromeda's problems, means I am automatically speaking for the majority and if I am part of that majority, then yes, I would also be speaking for myself.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 14:11:33 GMT
EA isn't selling any of those. They never have, to my knowledge and since they are anti-competitive, they seem eager to hoard IPs, even if they aren't actively using them. It was a hypothetical question. Noted.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 14:21:02 GMT
Yes... I'm going to take the estimates of someone who is extremely biased in this instance and not the word of a company that could be taken to the cleaners for lying to their investors... But they never lied. Nobody claimed they lied. Everything they said was absolutely true.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 21, 2020 19:21:43 GMT
You speak for a vocal minority and more importantly yourself I disagree. More people didn't buy Andromeda, than bought Andromeda. So in speaking on Andromeda's problems, means I am automatically speaking for the majority and if I am part of that majority, then yes, I would also be speaking for myself. I think I get what this is trying to say, but that doesn't actually gel logically. The number of people that buy any given product that isn't toilet paper will probably be greatly outnumbered by people who don't, but what does that actually mean? There's no fixed number of people set to buy a product that decide not to.
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