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Post by garrusfan1 on Oct 6, 2016 0:05:38 GMT
It's taken me forever to realize how it was done but it finally happened. I got brialla and celene to make up. It was awesome anyone else have this happen or what did you think of it
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 6, 2016 0:35:04 GMT
Briala and Celene getting back together and working together is my canon choice for how to handle the Orlais Civil War situation.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 6, 2016 0:37:10 GMT
I've never did that. I always had Celene remain in power by herself.
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Post by xerrai on Oct 6, 2016 2:33:12 GMT
I always try to give the elves a boost when I try to resolve the Civil War. Be it reuniting Celene with Briala or having Briala blackmail Gaspard, I try to give Briala the most out of the situation. Anything to help elves raise above their oppression.
That being said, I try to have Celene reunite with Briala more than I try to have Briala rule through Gaspard. Their relationship may not be the best, but if Briala looses all influence over the court, I trust Celene to at least be slightly sympathetic toward elves. She may be unwilling or unable to make reforms for them, but at least she is not actively seeking to act against them.
Gaspard on the other hand actively supports hunting Dalish, bribing the University to publish papers on how elves are like rabbits, and thinks they deserve nothing better than the slums. Things can get hairy if Briala looses her grip over him, only this time it will be fueled by a personal grudge.
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Post by HYR on Oct 6, 2016 2:36:48 GMT
I do, too. It's the resolution that I, the player, find most desirable, and it makes sense for my canon character.
That said, I do find it a little too perfect.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 6, 2016 2:37:20 GMT
I always try to give the elves a boost when I try to resolve the Civil War. Be it reuniting Celene with Briala or having Briala blackmail Gaspard, I try to give Briala the most out of the situation. Anything to help elves raise above their oppression. That being said, I try to have Celene reunite with Briala more than I try to have Briala rule through Gaspard. Their relationship may not be the best, but if Briala looses all influence over the court, I trust Celene to at least be slightly sympathetic toward elves. She may be unwilling or unable to make reforms for them, but at least she is not actively seeking to act against them. Gaspard on the other hand actively supports hunting Dalish, bribing the University to publish papers on how elves are like rabbits, and thinks they deserve nothing better than the slums. Things can get hairy if Briala looses her grip over him, only this time it will be fueled by a personal grudge. A poster after my own heart...
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Post by lordofwar on Oct 6, 2016 9:47:40 GMT
Nah, Celene and Briala's relationship is inherently abusive and kind of gross. Kill her, neuter Gaspard, and everyone but the nobility wins.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Oct 6, 2016 17:09:10 GMT
Nah, Celene and Briala's relationship is inherently abusive and kind of gross. Kill her, neuter Gaspard, and everyone but the nobility wins. Except it's clear that having Briala control Gaspard is doomed to failure for multiple reasons. For starters, everyone knows she's the actual one with power so she isn't really being sneaky. Furthermore, the only reason the nobles aren't planning on overthrowing her is because of the Inquisition and guess what? By Trespasser the Inquisition is either gone or severely weakened so they can't protect her and thus there is literally nothing stopping the nobles from overthrowing Briala. Considering how much of a racist Gaspard is plus how angry he must feel at being an elf's puppet, what do you think Gaspard is going to do to elves once Briala is gone? Finally, there's the fact that all her help for elves is based on blackmailing Gaspard. What is she going to do once Gaspard dies?
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Post by lordofwar on Oct 6, 2016 17:20:44 GMT
Nah, Celene and Briala's relationship is inherently abusive and kind of gross. Kill her, neuter Gaspard, and everyone but the nobility wins. Except it's clear that having Briala control Gaspard is doomed to failure for multiple reasons. For starters, everyone knows she's the actual one with power so she isn't really being sneaky. Furthermore, the only reason the nobles aren't planning on overthrowing her is because of the Inquisition and guess what? By Trespasser the Inquisition is either gone or severely weakened so they can't protect her and thus there is literally nothing stopping the nobles from overthrowing Briala. Considering how much of a racist Gaspard is plus how angry he must feel at being an elf's puppet, what do you think Gaspard is going to do to elves once Briala is gone? Finally, there's the fact that all her help for elves is based on blackmailing Gaspard. What is she going to do once Gaspard dies? This is assuming Briala completely relies on the one piece of blackmail given to her, rather than building up her own power base within the government and using her position of power to gather more blackmail on Gaspard and other significant nobles. If Briala does nothing else to secure her position then sure, this is possible, but that doesn't seem likely to me.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 6, 2016 17:51:15 GMT
I agree with the assumption that if Briala is in charge then by the end of Trespasser it is likely to go pear shaped very soon. Not only does she no longer having the backing of the Inquisition but she has also lost the eluvians, which is what gave her the edge in the first place.
However, my main objection to reconciling Celene and Briala is that it seems impossible to get Leliana as Divine and if you conscripted the mages, it is all too easy to get Vivienne. This is based off the other decision being to recruit the Wardens rather than banish them. It came as a horrible surprise when that happened to me the first time. I even tried voting for Cassandra but it was still no good. I dare say there was some dialogue choices that I should have done differently but I'm not clear what they are.
It doesn't seem a problem if you take the Templars path and I always disband them, so that is okay. Then I can reconcile Celene and Briala, recruit the Wardens and get Leliana as Divine. Mind you, I think Celene/Briala staying in power is somewhat dependent on the Inquisition. With them out of the way, even without Gaspard on the scene, the nobles might still take it out on the elves.
Any society where it is acceptable to liken having sex with an elf to bestiality or makes a satirical play that insults the memory of their most holy prophet by using her to make a cheap political point about the Empress and no one objects is really not a good place to be if you are an elf. Incidentally, the reason I really like making Leliana Divine is that she restores the Canticle of Shartan to the Chant, which makes it totally clear that there was nothing romantic going on between Andraste and Shartan but nevertheless she did acknowledge him as her equal in the eyes of the Maker. "The Maker has called you, just as he called me, to be a light for your people." She also names Shartan her Champion. Wonderfully subversive stuff.
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Post by polaris on Oct 6, 2016 19:06:27 GMT
I agree with the assumption that if Bdriiala is in charge then by the end of Trespasser it is likely to go pear shaped very soon. Not only does she no longer having the backing of the Inquisition but she has also lost the eluvians, which is what gave her the edge in the first place.
However, my main objection to reconciling Celene and Briala is that it seems impossible to get Leliana as Divine and if you conscripted the mages, it is all too easy to get Vivienne. This is based off the other decision being to recruit the Wardens rather than banish them. It came as a horrible surprise when that happened to me the first time. I even tried voting for Cassandra but it was still no good. I dare say there was some dialogue choices that I should have done differently but I'm not clear what they are.
It doesn't seem a problem if you take the Templars path and I always disband them, so that is okay. Then I can reconcile Celene and Briala, recruit the Wardens and get Leliana as Divine. Mind you, I think Celene/Briala staying in power is somewhat dependent on the Inquisition. With them out of the way, even without Gaspard on the scene, the nobles might still take it out on the elves.
Any society where it is acceptable to liken having sex with an elf to bestiality or makes a satirical play that insults the memory of their most holy prophet by using her to make a cheap political point about the Empress and no one objects is really not a good place to be if you are an elf. Incidentally, the reason I really like making Leliana Divine is that she restores the Canticle of Shartan to the Chant, which makes it totally clear that there was nothing romantic going on between Andraste and Shartan but nevertheless she did acknowledge him as her equal in the eyes of the Maker. "The Maker has called you, just as he called me, to be a light for your people." She also names Shartan her Champion. Wonderfully subversive stuff. I mostly agree with this, but I note that IMHO the best way to prevent Vivienne from becoming Divine (which I agree is a bad thing) is simply not to recruit Vivienne (and that is the route I almost always take). If you need a Mage companion, I find that Sola and later on Dorian are better as NPC Mage Companions anyway. That said, I tend to favor putting Brialla in charge with Gaspard as her puppet precisely because it's likely to go pear shaped. I really, really, really dislike the Orlesian Empire and frankly I think they've done far more harm in Thedas (esp recently) than good. It would warm the cockles of my heart to see the Empire fall apart in Civil War, and Puppet-Gascard w/Brialla is almost assured to do just that. I would like the all three reconcile ending for the same reason but IMHO it's too hard to get for the work you need to get it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 19:14:25 GMT
I agree with the assumption that if Bdriiala is in charge then by the end of Trespasser it is likely to go pear shaped very soon. Not only does she no longer having the backing of the Inquisition but she has also lost the eluvians, which is what gave her the edge in the first place.
However, my main objection to reconciling Celene and Briala is that it seems impossible to get Leliana as Divine and if you conscripted the mages, it is all too easy to get Vivienne. This is based off the other decision being to recruit the Wardens rather than banish them. It came as a horrible surprise when that happened to me the first time. I even tried voting for Cassandra but it was still no good. I dare say there was some dialogue choices that I should have done differently but I'm not clear what they are.
It doesn't seem a problem if you take the Templars path and I always disband them, so that is okay. Then I can reconcile Celene and Briala, recruit the Wardens and get Leliana as Divine. Mind you, I think Celene/Briala staying in power is somewhat dependent on the Inquisition. With them out of the way, even without Gaspard on the scene, the nobles might still take it out on the elves.
Any society where it is acceptable to liken having sex with an elf to bestiality or makes a satirical play that insults the memory of their most holy prophet by using her to make a cheap political point about the Empress and no one objects is really not a good place to be if you are an elf. Incidentally, the reason I really like making Leliana Divine is that she restores the Canticle of Shartan to the Chant, which makes it totally clear that there was nothing romantic going on between Andraste and Shartan but nevertheless she did acknowledge him as her equal in the eyes of the Maker. "The Maker has called you, just as he called me, to be a light for your people." She also names Shartan her Champion. Wonderfully subversive stuff. I mostly agree with this, but I note that IMHO the best way to prevent Vivienne from becoming Divine (which I agree is a bad thing) is simply not to recruit Vivienne (and that is the route I almost always take). If you need a Mage companion, I find that Sola and later on Dorian are better as NPC Mage Companions anyway. That said, I tend to favor putting Brialla in charge with Gaspard as her puppet precisely because it's likely to go pear shaped. I really, really, really dislike the Orlesian Empire and frankly I think they've done far more harm in Thedas (esp recently) than good. It would warm the cockles of my heart to see the Empire fall apart in Civil War, and Puppet-Gascard w/Brialla is almost assured to do just that. I would like the all three reconcile ending for the same reason but IMHO it's too hard to get for the work you need to get it. Honestly, if you want Orlesians to fall force them to have a three way truce, since civil war is likely to sprout again that way.
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Post by polaris on Oct 6, 2016 20:15:43 GMT
I mostly agree with this, but I note that IMHO the best way to prevent Vivienne from becoming Divine (which I agree is a bad thing) is simply not to recruit Vivienne (and that is the route I almost always take). If you need a Mage companion, I find that Sola and later on Dorian are better as NPC Mage Companions anyway. That said, I tend to favor putting Brialla in charge with Gaspard as her puppet precisely because it's likely to go pear shaped. I really, really, really dislike the Orlesian Empire and frankly I think they've done far more harm in Thedas (esp recently) than good. It would warm the cockles of my heart to see the Empire fall apart in Civil War, and Puppet-Gascard w/Brialla is almost assured to do just that. I would like the all three reconcile ending for the same reason but IMHO it's too hard to get for the work you need to get it. Honestly, if you want Orlesians to fall force them to have a three way truce, since civil war is likely to sprout again that way. I address this in my prior post. Basically you're right except it's too hard to set up, you give up too much (limited Halla statues) to do it, and frankly it isn't worth the extra work.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Oct 6, 2016 20:20:23 GMT
I agree with the assumption that if Bdriiala is in charge then by the end of Trespasser it is likely to go pear shaped very soon. Not only does she no longer having the backing of the Inquisition but she has also lost the eluvians, which is what gave her the edge in the first place.
However, my main objection to reconciling Celene and Briala is that it seems impossible to get Leliana as Divine and if you conscripted the mages, it is all too easy to get Vivienne. This is based off the other decision being to recruit the Wardens rather than banish them. It came as a horrible surprise when that happened to me the first time. I even tried voting for Cassandra but it was still no good. I dare say there was some dialogue choices that I should have done differently but I'm not clear what they are.
It doesn't seem a problem if you take the Templars path and I always disband them, so that is okay. Then I can reconcile Celene and Briala, recruit the Wardens and get Leliana as Divine. Mind you, I think Celene/Briala staying in power is somewhat dependent on the Inquisition. With them out of the way, even without Gaspard on the scene, the nobles might still take it out on the elves.
Any society where it is acceptable to liken having sex with an elf to bestiality or makes a satirical play that insults the memory of their most holy prophet by using her to make a cheap political point about the Empress and no one objects is really not a good place to be if you are an elf. Incidentally, the reason I really like making Leliana Divine is that she restores the Canticle of Shartan to the Chant, which makes it totally clear that there was nothing romantic going on between Andraste and Shartan but nevertheless she did acknowledge him as her equal in the eyes of the Maker. "The Maker has called you, just as he called me, to be a light for your people." She also names Shartan her Champion. Wonderfully subversive stuff. I mostly agree with this, but I note that IMHO the best way to prevent Vivienne from becoming Divine (which I agree is a bad thing) is simply not to recruit Vivienne (and that is the route I almost always take). If you need a Mage companion, I find that Sola and later on Dorian are better as NPC Mage Companions anyway. That said, I tend to favor putting Brialla in charge with Gaspard as her puppet precisely because it's likely to go pear shaped. I really, really, really dislike the Orlesian Empire and frankly I think they've done far more harm in Thedas (esp recently) than good. It would warm the cockles of my heart to see the Empire fall apart in Civil War, and Puppet-Gascard w/Brialla is almost assured to do just that. I would like the all three reconcile ending for the same reason but IMHO it's too hard to get for the work you need to get it. Actually with Gaspard and Briala, the only people who would truly suffer are the elves as the only true advantage the elves had were the eluvians which they lose in Trespasser meaning Briala has no advantage and would likely be crushed. If you truly want a civil war, the truce is a better way as while Briala may fall quickly, Celene and Gaspard both have lots of supporters and thus would cause a prolonged war.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 6, 2016 20:30:40 GMT
Briala allied with Celene... The way they set it up is very sick, she killed the elves with no remorse and killed her parents. And they love each other and expecting to live happily ever after?
that "romance" was nothing more than abuse, secrets and lies, yet the game portrayed as a tragedy only to end happiness if they hook together. Mph Better Briala-Gaspard.
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Post by polaris on Oct 6, 2016 20:33:42 GMT
I mostly agree with this, but I note that IMHO the best way to prevent Vivienne from becoming Divine (which I agree is a bad thing) is simply not to recruit Vivienne (and that is the route I almost always take). If you need a Mage companion, I find that Sola and later on Dorian are better as NPC Mage Companions anyway. That said, I tend to favor putting Brialla in charge with Gaspard as her puppet precisely because it's likely to go pear shaped. I really, really, really dislike the Orlesian Empire and frankly I think they've done far more harm in Thedas (esp recently) than good. It would warm the cockles of my heart to see the Empire fall apart in Civil War, and Puppet-Gascard w/Brialla is almost assured to do just that. I would like the all three reconcile ending for the same reason but IMHO it's too hard to get for the work you need to get it. Actually with Gaspard and Briala, the only people who would truly suffer are the elves as the only true advantage the elves had were the eluvians which they lose in Trespasser meaning Briala has no advantage and would likely be crushed. If you truly want a civil war, the truce is a better way as while Briala may fall quickly, Celene and Gaspard both have lots of supporters and thus would cause a prolonged war. I disagree. 1) The truce is just too hard to set up. 2) While no choice is particularly good for the elves, Gaspard is fundamentally a political idiot. He doesn't know how to really play the Game in a society that demands it. By contrast Brialla certainly does....and just because she may have lost control over the Elluvians doesn't mean that everyone in Orlais realizes this. Also before that happens, Brialla would almost surely strengthen her position in other ways. 3) We know 1) and 2) are true because if you do the Brialla+Gaspard ending, by the time Trespasser comes around the Orlesian nobles still grumble that the Emperor is Brialla's puppet, but she hasn't had control over the Elluvians for some time. 4) Finally, the universal truce is just too hard to set up and regarding Elves, both Celene and Gaspard despise the Elves (in their own way). That means with a truce it's two on a weak one (w/r/t the Elves). By contrast Gaspard + Brialla gives the Elves the weakest opponent and thus the best chance. Besides the universal truce is just too hard to set up for what you get...and you pass up too much to do it IMHO.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Oct 6, 2016 21:55:59 GMT
Actually with Gaspard and Briala, the only people who would truly suffer are the elves as the only true advantage the elves had were the eluvians which they lose in Trespasser meaning Briala has no advantage and would likely be crushed. If you truly want a civil war, the truce is a better way as while Briala may fall quickly, Celene and Gaspard both have lots of supporters and thus would cause a prolonged war. I disagree. 1) The truce is just too hard to set up. 2) While no choice is particularly good for the elves, Gaspard is fundamentally a political idiot. He doesn't know how to really play the Game in a society that demands it. By contrast Brialla certainly does....and just because she may have lost control over the Elluvians doesn't mean that everyone in Orlais realizes this. Also before that happens, Brialla would almost surely strengthen her position in other ways. 3) We know 1) and 2) are true because if you do the Brialla+Gaspard ending, by the time Trespasser comes around the Orlesian nobles still grumble that the Emperor is Brialla's puppet, but she hasn't had control over the Elluvians for some time. 4) Finally, the universal truce is just too hard to set up and regarding Elves, both Celene and Gaspard despise the Elves (in their own way). That means with a truce it's two on a weak one (w/r/t the Elves). By contrast Gaspard + Brialla gives the Elves the weakest opponent and thus the best chance. Besides the universal truce is just too hard to set up for what you get...and you pass up too much to do it IMHO. Actually, as the endings stated, the reason why nobody is doing anything against Briala is because the Inquisition is backing her which is still happening until the end of Trespasser. Once the Inquisition is gone, what do you think is going to happen?
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Post by opuspace on Oct 6, 2016 22:43:11 GMT
Briala allied with Celene... The way they set it up is very sick, she killed the elves with no remorse and killed her parents. And they love each other and expecting to live happily ever after? that "romance" was nothing more than abuse, secrets and lies, yet the game portrayed as a tragedy only to end happiness if they hook together. Mph Better Briala-Gaspard. If for nothing else, Celene's preferences for improving the education system is a boost up for giving more opportunities to people even should Briala and her split up again. Besides, blackmailing Celene is sweeter on top of the reunion. Making her squirm under the Inquisitor's thumb to keep her honest and less backstabby on Briala makes it appealing.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 6, 2016 22:54:27 GMT
Briala allied with Celene... The way they set it up is very sick, she killed the elves with no remorse and killed her parents. And they love each other and expecting to live happily ever after? that "romance" was nothing more than abuse, secrets and lies, yet the game portrayed as a tragedy only to end happiness if they hook together. Mph Better Briala-Gaspard. If for nothing else, Celene's preferences for improving the education system is a boost up for giving more opportunities to people even should Briala and her split up again. Besides, blackmailing Celene is sweeter on top of the reunion. Making her squirm under the Inquisitor's thumb to keep her honest and less backstabby on Briala makes it appealing. Until the Inquisition exist and until Celine will not find a good reason to return to be backstabby again,this is a person with no honor who care more for her image in the eyes of the nobles than her own belief,she is the all about apparences.
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Post by xerrai on Oct 6, 2016 22:56:08 GMT
Briala allied with Celene... The way they set it up is very sick, she killed the elves with no remorse and killed her parents. And they love each other and expecting to live happily ever after? that "romance" was nothing more than abuse, secrets and lies, yet the game portrayed as a tragedy only to end happiness if they hook together. Mph Better Briala-Gaspard. I agree that the relationship has some serious abusive aspects. But honestly? As horrible as it sounds, i'm more comfortable letting one elf remain an abusive relationship with a proactive monarch, than letting many elves suffer under an expansionist status-quo monarch that is going to hate being blackmailed.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 6, 2016 23:02:19 GMT
Briala allied with Celene... The way they set it up is very sick, she killed the elves with no remorse and killed her parents. And they love each other and expecting to live happily ever after? that "romance" was nothing more than abuse, secrets and lies, yet the game portrayed as a tragedy only to end happiness if they hook together. Mph Better Briala-Gaspard. I agree that the relationship has some serious abusive aspects. But honestly? As horrible as it sounds, i'm more comfortable letting one elf remain an abusive relationship with a proactive monarch, than letting many elves suffer under an expansionist status-quo monarch that is going to hate being blackmailed. Celine can kill elves just as easly as Gaspard,she only cares about how much she is popular among the nobles,if they think kill elves is good Celine will behave accordingly to not disappoint them.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Oct 6, 2016 23:23:10 GMT
I agree that the relationship has some serious abusive aspects. But honestly? As horrible as it sounds, i'm more comfortable letting one elf remain an abusive relationship with a proactive monarch, than letting many elves suffer under an expansionist status-quo monarch that is going to hate being blackmailed. Celine can kill elves just as easly as Gaspard,she only cares about how much she is popular among the nobles,if they think kill elves is good Celine will behave accordingly to not disappoint them. Celene wasn't the one who commissioned papers saying sleeping with elves should be the same as bestiality since elves are no better than animals, the one who openly says that all elves belong in slums, who openly complains he isn't killing Dalish elves, and who is part of a group whose graduation is killing elves. Sorry but Gaspard is a thousand times worse with regards to elves than Celene could ever be.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 6, 2016 23:23:53 GMT
Celine is a bad person very much backstabbing,not to insult Gaspard's intelligence but i think he is more easy to manipulate than Celine for Briala.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 6, 2016 23:24:31 GMT
Until the Inquisition exist and until Celine will not find a good reason to return to be backstabby again,this is a person with no honor who care more for her image in the eyes of the nobles than her own belief,she is the all about apparences. In a ways, That's exactly what politics is about, even in our world. Ideally, we should be able to judge according to merits but that's not what people are. It's too much work sifting through endless amounts of information while dealing with personal worries and concerns, so we look for shorthand details to make our judgements more quickly. Thus, the posing, the scandals, the mud flinging, it's all to stand out in people's minds. Show up in an interview dressed in torn jeans and a stained shirt? You're going to be judged on your appearance because it tells us that if you can't take how you dress seriously, how can we trust that you'll take the job seriously? Even on these forums we all play a much milder form of the Game. There are expectations, rules and even how we say certain opinions. The moment you pick a side and voice it too passionately without checking your facts, it can get ugly fast. The wrong opinions can progressively make it such you'll never be listened to and will be promptly dismissed while the cause you took up will go down with your burning ship. I'm getting off tangent here. My point being is that I don't deny Celene is unsympathetic. But her goals I prefer because she'll lean towards policies that the majority will benefit from (more specifically, the elves as well as the humans) since the more people are educated, the more likely they will start to notice the problems around them, the more likely they will bring it to the public attention. Evem if it has an abusive angle, having Briala reunited with her will have some sentimental effect upon her policies that can affect elves. It's a far better gamble than an outright racist like Gaspard who is actively aiming to cause harm to them. Gaspard isn't much better as he's been playing the Game just as diligently but without the common sense to not insult a Dalish Inquisitor to their face about elves having no place in politics.
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Post by xerrai on Oct 6, 2016 23:30:20 GMT
I agree that the relationship has some serious abusive aspects. But honestly? As horrible as it sounds, i'm more comfortable letting one elf remain an abusive relationship with a proactive monarch, than letting many elves suffer under an expansionist status-quo monarch that is going to hate being blackmailed. Celine can kill elves just as easly as Gaspard,she only cares about how much she is popular among the nobles,if they think kill elves is good Celine will behave accordingly to not disappoint them. Sure, but there is little question as to which is lesser evil of the two. As mentioned earlier, Gaspard supports hunting the Dalish, publishing papers against human-elven relations and doing nothing to better their chances at getting opportunities to rise above their station. Celene is the main reason why elves even have a chance of attending the University of Orlais. If the political climate is favorable, then she will try to enact reforms that favor elves. Or at least will not be actively aggressive toward them like Gaspard.
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