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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Dreadnaw Rising
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Apr 22, 2018 19:35:33 GMT
It takes "painful" and "scary" memories away to "help" it's victims, but whether sinister, or compassion spirit gone wrong long ago, it makes no sense for him to take those specific memories.
you walked into a room where some weird shit with the Divine was going down. You're told to run. The orb gets dropped. You grab it. It tears the veil, you fall in, but you're not injured in anyway, just temporarily unconsious.
That's hardly painful or scary, so what gives? Merely convenient plot information being hidden behind something lore related? or is there a good reason I'm just not seeing?
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Tittus
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ByonicClown
Posts: 863 Likes: 1,581
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Post by Tittus on Apr 22, 2018 20:13:01 GMT
The Nightmare was merely hiding the involvement of the Grey Wardens and the whole demon army plan.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Post by phoray on Apr 22, 2018 21:53:13 GMT
The Nightmare was merely hiding the involvement of the Grey Wardens and the whole demon army plan. So you're implying that shortly after Cory bursts forth from a Warden Body nearby, he mind connects with the Fear Demon to tell him to suck the memories from Inky's head before he can tell anyone? Or do you think the Fear Demon is somehow insightful enough to just know that Inky having these memories is a bad idea? And if he can take any memories, why not just make the Inky wiped clean as a babe, neutralizing him as a threat entirely? |
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Sifr
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Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Apr 22, 2018 22:14:30 GMT
During their time in the Fade, the Inquisitor was chased by demons (in the form of spiders, which they're afraid of), saw the Divine ripped from their grasp and/or killed in front of them, before barely making it out of there alive. That would be a rather traumatic and harrowing experience that anyone would probably wish to forget.
Corypheus seems to have been working with the Nightmare before the game even started (to generate the False Calling), so that could also explain why Nightmare would want to remove the memories of Corypheus and the Wardens being present at the Conclave, since that information getting out could have scuppered their plans.
According to one of the notes found in Haven, the Inquisitor was also heard mumbling about "The Grey" in their sleep, but no-one could figure out what they were referring to. Could be that this was when the Inquisitor had their memories stolen by Nightmare, or their mind repressed them to cope with the trauma of being thrown physically into the Fade?
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 22, 2018 22:24:27 GMT
According to one of the notes found in Haven, the Inquisitor was also heard mumbling about "The Grey" in their sleep, but no-one could figure out what they were referring to. Could be that this was when the Inquisitor had their memories stolen by Nightmare, or their mind repressed them to cope with the trauma of being thrown physically into the Fade? Wow... I r dum. Even though I've read those letters several times, I've never made the connection until you wrote it out like that. :dumb: |
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Apr 22, 2018 23:09:03 GMT
Wow... I r dum. Even though I've read those letters several times, I've never made the connection until you wrote it out like that.  ME neither!
So we're thinking that it wasn't until Day 1-3 of the illness post fade that Cory maybe told Nightmare to take the memories? Interesting that Cory would find Inky to be such a threat. Even if they'd awakened spouting everything they knew, Inky was a prisoner not easily believed. I think if We HAD come out spouting all that, we would have been more likely beheaded. |
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Post by Iddy on Apr 23, 2018 11:35:19 GMT
He wanted to keep spoilers from leaking.
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 23, 2018 12:08:48 GMT
He wanted to keep spoilers from leaking.
This is the most likely explanation. However, since Corypheus' plans were in their infancy, when it was clear the PC was going to survive and seemed to have some vague memories of the encounter with Corypheus, it is likely that Nightmare demon decided to steal them to be on the safe-side. Clearly it was able to be discerning with this so it seems unlikely it happened automatically at the same time as the explosion because the PC was remembering events after it in the Fade (the eyes of the spiders chasing them) and an automatic memory wipe would be more likely to take everything rather than an event specific amnesia.
On the whole with Inquisition, it doesn't pay to look too closely at plot elements because the logic of many of them quickly starts to unravel.
Lore wise it is possible for the demon to pick and choose about which memories to take. It is established in Masked Empire that apparently a powerful demon can alter memories via the Fade, presumably even in dwarves (another thing needing clarification). This could account for the racial amnesia that seems to affect a lot of modern races so that they remember some things from ancient history but not others. Essentially between people in the real world doctoring records to suit their version of history and demons in the Fade messing with people's memories and getting them to alter records to suit their agenda, it is hard to rely on any historical record as being accurate - a nice let out for the writers if they decide to change it.
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Post by ellehaym on Apr 23, 2018 15:53:28 GMT
I think one of the reason why The Nightmare sealed the Inquisitor's memory of that incident was to keep others from knowing the Wardens and Corypheus were responsible. After all, they were planning on unleashing it to the real world, so it had a vested interest in sealing that memory. Not only that, but with the Inquisitor originally being chased in the opening,I wonder if the Nightmare or his minions were trying to kill them in the Fade, since they failed at that Nightmare had to resort to sealing the memory
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Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Apr 23, 2018 21:23:23 GMT
The Nightmare Demon had an outstanding debt he owed to Freddy.  |
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 24, 2018 3:03:59 GMT
Isn’t this the scene that accidentally got the “what’s going on here?” audio swapped from a different, much calmer conversation?
It was probably supposed to read less as “ah, I do say, something odd is afoot” and more as “sweet Maker what are you doing to the Divine?!?!?!”
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 26, 2018 1:38:00 GMT
It takes "painful" and "scary" memories away to "help" it's victims, but whether sinister, or compassion spirit gone wrong long ago, it makes no sense for him to take those specific memories. you walked into a room where some weird shit with the Divine was going down. You're told to run. The orb gets dropped. You grab it. It tears the veil, you fall in, but you're not injured in anyway, just temporarily unconsious. That's hardly painful or scary, so what gives? Merely convenient plot information being hidden behind something lore related? or is there a good reason I'm just not seeing? Well, what I remember of the Nightmare demon's taunts from the Fade suggests that the Inquisitor found those events disturbing. It does gloat that it took those memories as a favor, and that Inky is unwise to take them back. This is probably at least partially because these memories included the Divine's death, or at least information from which the Inquisitor was able to infer it. And while I admit I'm going out on a thin-looking limb here it may also be significant that the eventual-Inquisitor says in Haven that they remember being chased, but doesn't say what they were chased by, and that the lesser fear demons are said to take whatever form the observer finds most frightening. But beyond that, there's all the stuff that's already been mentioned about how until the Inquisitor lost their memories, they knew more than Cory wanted them to. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 27, 2018 15:25:37 GMT
Does the Nightmare demon normally steal people's memories so they don't remember their pain and anguish? It seems to feed off their fear, so it would make sense it would leave their memories intact so they could keep reliving their pain and anguish as it would give him a continuous feeding source. So the majority of memories are just what the Nightmare demon has kept recorded in its lair after the person connected with them has either forgotten them in the normal way or died. Of course we know that spirits are capable of removing/altering memories because both Imshael and Cole are said to either do this or offer to do this for other people, so this would account for why in this particular instance the demon actually removed the memories rather than leaving the Inquisitor to re-live them.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 27, 2018 19:08:52 GMT
Does the Nightmare demon normally steal people's memories so they don't remember their pain and anguish? It seems to feed off their fear, so it would make sense it would leave their memories intact so they could keep reliving their pain and anguish as it would give him a continuous feeding source. So the majority of memories are just what the Nightmare demon has kept recorded in its lair after the person connected with them has either forgotten them in the normal way or died. Of course we know that spirits are capable of removing/altering memories because both Imshael and Cole are said to either do this or offer to do this for other people, so this would account for why in this particular instance the demon actually removed the memories rather than leaving the Inquisitor to re-live them. I think I remember Cole saying something to the effect that Nightmare started out removing memories as a kindness, the way Cole did, but then absorbed too much misery and was twisted. Whether or not Nightmare still removes memories as part of its standard operating procedure, I don't think we know. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 27, 2018 19:41:14 GMT
Well clearly it can't be standard procedure or he'd have removed the memories from the Grey Wardens, so they wouldn't be wetting themselves about the false calling any more, which would have been self defeating.
It does beg the question about cause and effect. If fear demons are only caused by people's fears then presumably if everyone thinks happy thoughts there will be no more fear demons. However, fear demons not only respond to fear but also cause it. It is the same with despair demons and terror demons. So I assume that the Nightmare demon, being simply a very powerful fear demon, not only feeds on nightmares but causes them. Hence him being responsible for amplifying Corypheus's false calling so that it affected the Grey Wardens over a wider area than Corypheus was capable of alone.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Dreadnaw Rising
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Post by phoray on Apr 28, 2018 2:17:03 GMT
a nice let out for the writers if they decide to change it.  so they wouldn't be wetting themselves 
In the end though, I agree. I think it's a Wavey plot element I'm not supposed to look at too closely. I was just hoping that someone could convince me that it was secretly brilliant afterall |
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Post by thats1evildude on May 2, 2018 17:48:36 GMT
It does beg the question about cause and effect. If fear demons are only caused by people's fears then presumably if everyone thinks happy thoughts there will be no more fear demons. That's actually the case with ALL demons. If Thedas was a paradise with no war, hunger, disease, racial hatred or monsters, then there would be virtually no darker spirits. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on May 2, 2018 18:40:33 GMT
That's actually the case with ALL demons. If Thedas was a paradise with no war, hunger, disease, racial hatred or monsters, then there would be virtually no darker spirits It does seem a bit strange though that there seem so many more dark spirits than there are benign ones. Surely the world has just as many positive emotions occurring as negative ones. The Chantry teach that demons are more interested in the mortal world than benign spirits but surely if all spirits just respond to emotions, then "good" spirits should be just as attracted to the world by their favoured emotion as demons are by theirs? For every person who is terrified of the dark or succumbs to their fear, there is another who will try to comfort and reassure them, or defy the fear and overcome it. Thedas seems unduly skewed towards the negative. I always thought it was a rather dim view of the world by Solas that he said that Fear was the oldest emotion that came before anything else. Why should that be? Why was the oldest emotion not love or bravery or loyalty or compassion or hope? |
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Post by thats1evildude on May 2, 2018 18:55:02 GMT
That's actually the case with ALL demons. If Thedas was a paradise with no war, hunger, disease, racial hatred or monsters, then there would be virtually no darker spirits It does seem a bit strange though that there seem so many more dark spirits than there are benign ones. Surely the world has just as many positive emotions occurring as negative ones. The Chantry teach that demons are more interested in the mortal world than benign spirits but surely if all spirits just respond to emotions, then "good" spirits should be just as attracted to the world by their favoured emotion as demons are by theirs? For every person who is terrified of the dark or succumbs to their fear, there is another who will try to comfort and reassure them, or defy the fear and overcome it. Thedas seems unduly skewed towards the negative. I always thought it was a rather dim view of the world by Solas that he said that Fear was the oldest emotion that came before anything else. Why should that be? Why was the oldest emotion not love or bravery or loyalty or compassion or hope? Fear is tied to survival, and the most primal instinct you have is your will to survive. Fear of starvation or being eaten by predators forced us into groups to better our chances for survival. |
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Post by ellehaym on May 2, 2018 19:25:21 GMT
Maybe a lot of Spirits that are summoned forth are quickly corrupted and turn into demons? We saw this with Solas friend that was a wisdom spirit, but was bound twisted into a Pride demon. Same can be said to an extent with the compassion spirit that took Cole's identity and Justice frustration. The Nightmare supposedly started out as a spirit of compassion but helping too much people eventually corrupted it. If anything, it seems too easy for a Spirit to turn into a demon.We also know that Spirits that somehow manage enter the real world will get confused due to the new environment and if they don't manage to return to the fade they turn into demons and possess whatever they can.
From what I gather, Spirits are more subtle when they do decide to help people. We see this with Wynne, the Seeker ritual needs a Faith spirit to uno tranquility. I also remember a quest in the Hinterlands that hinted at a spirit of Valor giving us a sword in the Lake as a reward.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 2, 2018 21:11:57 GMT
That's actually the case with ALL demons. If Thedas was a paradise with no war, hunger, disease, racial hatred or monsters, then there would be virtually no darker spirits It does seem a bit strange though that there seem so many more dark spirits than there are benign ones. Surely the world has just as many positive emotions occurring as negative ones. The Chantry teach that demons are more interested in the mortal world than benign spirits but surely if all spirits just respond to emotions, then "good" spirits should be just as attracted to the world by their favoured emotion as demons are by theirs? For every person who is terrified of the dark or succumbs to their fear, there is another who will try to comfort and reassure them, or defy the fear and overcome it. Thedas seems unduly skewed towards the negative. I always thought it was a rather dim view of the world by Solas that he said that Fear was the oldest emotion that came before anything else. Why should that be? Why was the oldest emotion not love or bravery or loyalty or compassion or hope? What can I say? This isn't a very nice setting. |
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