cribbian
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Post by cribbian on May 26, 2018 12:48:03 GMT
Funny thing is that TB wasn't even a supporter of Gamergate IIRC. He tried to stay neutral. But as we know, that makes you a nazi or something.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 26, 2018 15:21:32 GMT
Its not enough to shut down an entire forum because you simply cannot take criticism, no, you also have to celebrate the actual death of the critics. Yeah, Bioware. This is hardly BioWare's fault. An individual is dumb enough to share how they feel on the internet (happens all the time). Doing so lacks class and to do so within 24 hours of the guy's death is shitty and out of place. He's trying hard to roll-back now, making his account private and so on. That his inappropriate snark becomes 'news' is why dev employees won't normally say stuff. Oh, Inb4 a Yong Video on the subject: "BioWare hates on Total Biscuit, fuck EA!"
Funny funny stuff, personally I am of the opinion that just because somebody dies does not mean we should not speak honestly about them and if they were a massive cunt then we should not cover that up, I find shedding fake tears over somebody you never really cared for in the first place is far more disrespectful than speaking the truth so I can't really fault anyone taking jabs at the dead. I think you're right in principle, but out of respect I think it's best to wait a few days before assessing an individual's merits and demerits in public.
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Post by Queen Skadi on May 26, 2018 15:52:24 GMT
Its not enough to shut down an entire forum because you simply cannot take criticism, no, you also have to celebrate the actual death of the critics. Yeah, Bioware. This is hardly BioWare's fault. Probably and while I do think it is pretty shitty when somebody gets punished by the company they work for for stuff they did outside of work or on their own personal twitter profile (unless that person is acting as a representative of the company) I do find it a little troubling that this person is indicative of the type of people EA and Bioware tend to have working on their games, I am sure we all remember Manveer Heir and I am pretty sure there was another person at Bioware joining in on the TB hate train (or at the very least defending the tweets made by Crooks). It is not like Bioware doesn't have a history of hiring these "progressive" types that end up being quite toxic. Funny funny stuff, personally I am of the opinion that just because somebody dies does not mean we should not speak honestly about them and if they were a massive cunt then we should not cover that up, I find shedding fake tears over somebody you never really cared for in the first place is far more disrespectful than speaking the truth so I can't really fault anyone taking jabs at the dead. I think you're right in principle, but out of respect I think it's best to wait a few days before assessing an individual's merits and demerits in public. Probably, but it is pretty clear this dude doesn't really have much respect for TB, personally I think it is a little petty to drag out personal beefs with somebody after they are dead and unable to respond to it, but at the same time I would probably rather people say what they think rather than shed fake tears over somebody they did not really care much for.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 26, 2018 16:26:00 GMT
Probably and while I do think it is pretty shitty when somebody gets punished by the company they work for for stuff they did outside of work or on their own personal twitter profile (unless that person is acting as a representative of the company) I do find it a little troubling that this person is indicative of the type of people EA and Bioware tend to have working on their games, I am sure we all remember Manveer Heir and I am pretty sure there was another person at Bioware joining in on the TB hate train (or at the very least defending the tweets made by Crooks). It is not like Bioware doesn't have a history of hiring these "progressive" types that end up being quite toxic. Personally, I think that's a bit of a stretch. Out of 800 employees, Manveer was somewhat of a troublesome exception (now gone). I'm struggling to see examples of BoWare employees speaking out of turn, today's examples excepted. I don't think we're in any position to assess a 'type of people' BioWare employ, we should judge them on their games. David was foolish and disrespectful in my view, but that doesn't merit some of the sponge-for brains outrage on the internet calling for the guy to be fired. And to be fair, maybe we should move the discussion back to TotalBiscuit?
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Post by Queen Skadi on May 26, 2018 16:43:23 GMT
Probably and while I do think it is pretty shitty when somebody gets punished by the company they work for for stuff they did outside of work or on their own personal twitter profile (unless that person is acting as a representative of the company) I do find it a little troubling that this person is indicative of the type of people EA and Bioware tend to have working on their games, I am sure we all remember Manveer Heir and I am pretty sure there was another person at Bioware joining in on the TB hate train (or at the very least defending the tweets made by Crooks). It is not like Bioware doesn't have a history of hiring these "progressive" types that end up being quite toxic. Personally, I think that's a bit of a stretch. Out of 800 employees, Manveer was somewhat of a troublesome exception (now gone). I'm struggling to see examples of BoWare employees speaking out of turn, today's examples excepted. I don't think we're in any position to assess a 'type of people' BioWare employ, we should judge them on their games. David was foolish and disrespectful in my view, but that doesn't merit some of the sponge-for brains outrage on the internet calling for the guy to be fired. And to be fair, maybe we should move the discussion back to TotalBiscuit? Well to be fair it is partially an assessment made based partially on the games they produce as the values of those creating the games are apparent in the games they create and I can think of a few more Bioware employees (or former employees) that do share values in common with both Crooks and Heir. But ok perhaps the discussion is getting off track and we should be focusing on TotalBiscuit himself and not the haters.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on May 26, 2018 16:49:26 GMT
Its not enough to shut down an entire forum because you simply cannot take criticism, no, you also have to celebrate the actual death of the critics. Yeah, Bioware. This is hardly BioWare's fault. An individual is dumb enough to share how they feel on the internet (happens all the time). Doing so lacks class and to do so within 24 hours of the guy's death is shitty and out of place. He's trying hard to roll-back now, making his account private and so on. That his inappropriate snark becomes 'news' is why dev employees won't normally say stuff. *snip* Still, that's pretty classless on their part.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 26, 2018 16:58:17 GMT
No, not classy at all.
As a fellow Brit I enjoyed TotalBuscuit's plain talking, even if personally I am not as cynical as he was.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on May 26, 2018 17:00:18 GMT
Funny funny stuff, personally I am of the opinion that just because somebody dies does not mean we should not speak honestly about them and if they were a massive cunt then we should not cover that up, I find shedding fake tears over somebody you never really cared for in the first place is far more disrespectful than speaking the truth so I can't really fault anyone taking jabs at the dead. That said I did not pay too much attention to TB personally so I don't really know too much about him or what the person is referring to however knowing the quality of the people Bioware and EA hire these days and knowing that being a mere supporter of Gamergate is enough to get these people's knickers in a knot it does not surprise me that these guys would be happy about TB's death and it does make me question the validity of the accusations made in their tweets. These are the types of people who will shed tears at the death of Osama Bin Laden because he was an "oppressed minority" yet celebrate the death of somebody like Hitchens because he cared more about the truth than peoples personal feelings. TB generally didn't mince words (if he thought something was shit, he'd say it was shit) and he often did obsess over options and features that many aren't too concerned about (rebindable keys, FOV sliders, 30 fps as opposed to 60, etc.). He was also on and off chemotherapy for years, so I'll give him some slack for harshness. That said, he was pretty gentle on Andromeda. More gentle than the majority of the community imho, but that game's graphical bugs made it a laughingstock on launch. He was not gentle on a great many games, and on a couple occasions had companies attempt to take legal action against him. He also didn't cover Nintendo and refused to cover Sega for years because of their policies towards Youtube. But I give him a pass.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 26, 2018 17:11:54 GMT
Probably and while I do think it is pretty shitty when somebody gets punished by the company they work for for stuff they did outside of work or on their own personal twitter profile (unless that person is acting as a representative of the company) I do find it a little troubling that this person is indicative of the type of people EA and Bioware tend to have working on their games, I am sure we all remember Manveer Heir and I am pretty sure there was another person at Bioware joining in on the TB hate train (or at the very least defending the tweets made by Crooks). It is not like Bioware doesn't have a history of hiring these "progressive" types that end up being quite toxic. David was foolish and disrespectful in my view, but that doesn't merit some of the sponge-for brains outrage on the internet calling for the guy to be fired. This. Seems everyone wants a hanging these days.
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Post by Hrungr on May 26, 2018 18:35:20 GMT
Casey Hudson @caseydhudson I was extremely disappointed to find out about the comments on the passing of John Bain (@totalbiscuit) from someone who was previously part of BioWare. Let me be clear that they don’t represent BioWare’s views, EA’s, or my own. Our condolences go out to John and his family.
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Post by Sweet FA on May 26, 2018 18:57:48 GMT
You know, I wasn't a subscriber of the man and I agree and disagree with a lot of his opinions, to be honest I never really held any strong opinions about him either way, but I like to expose myself to a lot of opinions and sometimes things that challenge my views. I really recommend that people should read more stuff they disagree with, it's actually good for your personal development and humanity. People should constantly challenge themselves and ask "am I really right about my opinions". We really have to constantly guard against the vanity ego bubble "everybody else is wrong, I'm right". I don't hate people because I don't like their opinion or view's, hate destroys yourself not your opponent.
As for this guy's post. What the hell is wrong with people these day's. The guy only demeans himself by posting that. Simply vile. Far too much hate out there. Cruel, crass, undignified and completely unnecessary.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 19:59:09 GMT
I really recommend that people should read more stuff they disagree with, it's actually good for your personal development and humanity. Up to a point. I had a friend whose opinions could be summed up as "devils advocate". (And I see a few people on this board that could be summed up the same way.) He thought he was so farseeing, but all he'd do is just puppet the opposite of what was thrown his way. When pressed for an opinion and not a discussion about what that opinion could be he'd grope for an answer. That's because his answer always, "not yours". (And let me just say that sometimes it's nice to have friends that agree with you on occasion...)Like everything in life there's a balance to maintain. We live in a time where humans have extremely easy access to more information than ever before. Choosing what you do not look at now matters as much as what you do. You can research yourself into and out of pretty much anything these days just in the name of playing devils advocate. (Witness the science and conspiracy threads around here. Maybe we need a "Wisdom" thread.)
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Post by SofaJockey on May 26, 2018 20:43:41 GMT
Casey Hudson @caseydhudsonI was extremely disappointed to find out about the comments on the passing of John Bain (@totalbiscuit) from someone who was previously part of BioWare. Let me be clear that they don’t represent BioWare’s views, EA’s, or my own. Our condolences go out to John and his family. Wow, there's a thing. Good move from the guy at the top, nipping this in the bud. (I wonder exactly how 'previously'...)
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Post by Hrungr on May 26, 2018 20:47:50 GMT
Casey Hudson @caseydhudsonI was extremely disappointed to find out about the comments on the passing of John Bain (@totalbiscuit) from someone who was previously part of BioWare. Let me be clear that they don’t represent BioWare’s views, EA’s, or my own. Our condolences go out to John and his family. Wow, there's a thing. Good move from the guy at the top, nipping this in the bud. (I wonder how 'previously'...)As I understand it, he hasn't worked for BioWare since the Montreal studio folded, but still works for EA (on BFII IIRC). I'm guessing not for much longer though...
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Post by Queen Skadi on May 26, 2018 20:50:18 GMT
Casey Hudson @caseydhudsonI was extremely disappointed to find out about the comments on the passing of John Bain (@totalbiscuit) from someone who was previously part of BioWare. Let me be clear that they don’t represent BioWare’s views, EA’s, or my own. Our condolences go out to John and his family. Wow, there's a thing. Good move from the guy at the top, nipping this in the bud. (I wonder how 'previously'...)That is what I was wondering, I mean after Andromeda he must have moved to Dice to work on Battlefront 2 however everyone until Hudson seemed to refer to the guy as a current employee of Bioware? Did he move back to Bioware after completing Battlefront 2 and get the boot after his tweets were made public or did he move to Dice after Andromeda and stay there and nobody bothered to fact check when talking about who he worked for?
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Post by Sweet FA on May 26, 2018 20:54:45 GMT
Just to be clear I'm not advocating contrarianism, however I am advocating listening to people and not dismissing them out of hand. You can hear someone's argument's and idea's without endorsing or agreeing with them. It's now very easy to dwell in your own comfort zone/mutual appreciation society.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 26, 2018 20:58:08 GMT
ok, the guy hasn't updated his LinkedIn so he still says he works for BioWare. He may also not have updated his Twitter bio until recently doing so.
(many don't bother updating these things without urgent need)
Casey is right to say he's not at BioWare (Montreal office closure) but I have a suspicion he's still under EA.
Whilst companies are able to can people for 'bringing the company into disrepute' I'm probably still not convinced someone should lose their job for being a total idiot online, but that will be for EA to determine. There may even be a case to be made for what was said at another time, but the timing stinks.
I'm sure many of us have said things on the internet they wish they could walk back, I certainly would.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on May 26, 2018 21:09:33 GMT
ok, the guy hasn't updated his LinkedIn so he still says he works for BioWare. He may also not have updated his Twitter bio until recently doing so. (many don't bother updating these things without urgent need) Casey is right to say he's not at BioWare (Montreal office closure) but I have a suspicion he's still under EA. Whilst companies are able to can people for 'bringing the company into disrepute' I'm probably still not convinced someone should lose their job for being a total idiot online, but that will be for EA to determine. There may even be a case to be made for what was said at another time, but the timing stinks. I'm sure many of us have said things on the internet they wish they could walk back, I certainly would. True, but come on. If you think they were bad, you might have to be the better man rather than jump to indignation.
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Post by Hrungr on May 26, 2018 21:12:57 GMT
ok, the guy hasn't updated his LinkedIn so he still says he works for BioWare. He may also not have updated his Twitter bio until recently doing so. Casey is right to say he's not at BioWare (Montreal office closure) but I have a suspicion he's still under EA. Whilst companies are able to can people for 'bringing the company into disrepute' I'm probably still not convinced someone should lose their job for being a total idiot online, but that will be for EA to determine. I'm sure many of us have said things on the internet they wish they could walk back, I certainly would. From the moment he posted that, my first thought was... his days at EA are numbered. Because I knew the backlash wouldn't just be towards him. BioWare and EA would inevitably be swept up in it too (and they have).
It hasn't made news on the bigger gaming sites yet, but you can it snowballing, and I think it's only a matter of time. After that...
Did none of his co-workers or friends try to intervene the moment they saw those tweets...?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 21:18:37 GMT
ok, the guy hasn't updated his LinkedIn so he still says he works for BioWare. He may also not have updated his Twitter bio until recently doing so. (many don't bother updating these things without urgent need) Casey is right to say he's not at BioWare (Montreal office closure) but I have a suspicion he's still under EA. Whilst companies are able to can people for 'bringing the company into disrepute' I'm probably still not convinced someone should lose their job for being a total idiot online, but that will be for EA to determine. There may even be a case to be made for what was said at another time, but the timing stinks. I'm sure many of us have said things on the internet they wish they could walk back, I certainly would. True, but come on. If you think they were bad, you might have to be the better man rather than jump to indignation. There needs to be a dividing line somewhere between your professional conduct representing the people you work for and your personal views. That people always jump straight to "he/she needs to get fired pronto" is a problem in and of itself. It's the only limited option of reactionary vindication against a stranger most people reading it have. It's kind of childish really. I can guarantee you my views as "Fuckit" are not ones endorsed by my workplace. Nor should they be. My job and my private life are two entirely separate entities. Now if the guy was posting these things wearing a Bioware shirt at a Con while handing out pamphlets... well... then, yeah. As it stands I don't think he needs to get fired; I just think he's an ass with no sense of timing.
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Post by Iakus on May 26, 2018 21:19:51 GMT
ok, the guy hasn't updated his LinkedIn so he still says he works for BioWare. He may also not have updated his Twitter bio until recently doing so. (many don't bother updating these things without urgent need) Casey is right to say he's not at BioWare (Montreal office closure) but I have a suspicion he's still under EA. Whilst companies are able to can people for 'bringing the company into disrepute' I'm probably still not convinced someone should lose their job for being a total idiot online, but that will be for EA to determine. There may even be a case to be made for what was said at another time, but the timing stinks. I'm sure many of us have said things on the internet they wish they could walk back, I certainly would.Nothing to that degree. I recognize that anything I put out there is for everyone to see. Now I have to wonder how many other people with such hate in their hearts work for Bioware, and what kind of culture are they building there?
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Post by Terminator Force on May 26, 2018 21:22:31 GMT
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Post by Iakus on May 26, 2018 21:23:42 GMT
True, but come on. If you think they were bad, you might have to be the better man rather than jump to indignation. There needs to be a dividing line somewhere between your professional conduct representing the people you work for and your personal views. That people always jump straight to "he/she needs to get fired pronto" is a problem in and of itself. It's the only limited option of reactionary vindication against a stranger most people reading it have. It's kind of childish really. I can guarantee you my views as "Fuckit" are not ones endorsed by my workplace. Nor should they be. My job and my private life are two entirely separate entities. Now if the guy was posting these things wearing a Bioware shirt at a Con while handing out pamphlets... well... then, yeah. As it stands I don't think he needs to get fired; I just think he's an ass with no sense of timing. This is true, but (before he locked down his account) he put out in his profile who he worked for and such. Which is kinda like wearing a Bioware shirt...
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 21:28:26 GMT
There needs to be a dividing line somewhere between your professional conduct representing the people you work for and your personal views. That people always jump straight to "he/she needs to get fired pronto" is a problem in and of itself. It's the only limited option of reactionary vindication against a stranger most people reading it have. It's kind of childish really. I can guarantee you my views as "Fuckit" are not ones endorsed by my workplace. Nor should they be. My job and my private life are two entirely separate entities. Now if the guy was posting these things wearing a Bioware shirt at a Con while handing out pamphlets... well... then, yeah. As it stands I don't think he needs to get fired; I just think he's an ass with no sense of timing. This is true, but (before he locked down his account) he put out in his profile who he worked for and such. Which is kinda like wearing a Bioware shirt... That's fair, as another situation in my head would be if one of the devs had posted that on the old Prime forums using their dev/employee avatar. It's a blurry line, where does "representing your employer" divide? (Honest question and I'm not sure I have the answer.)
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Post by Queen Skadi on May 26, 2018 21:31:32 GMT
ok, the guy hasn't updated his LinkedIn so he still says he works for BioWare. He may also not have updated his Twitter bio until recently doing so. Casey is right to say he's not at BioWare (Montreal office closure) but I have a suspicion he's still under EA. Whilst companies are able to can people for 'bringing the company into disrepute' I'm probably still not convinced someone should lose their job for being a total idiot online, but that will be for EA to determine. I'm sure many of us have said things on the internet they wish they could walk back, I certainly would. From the moment he posted that, my first thought was... his days at EA are numbered. Because I knew the backlash wouldn't just be towards him. BioWare and EA would inevitably be swept up in it too (and they have).
It hasn't made news on the bigger gaming sites yet, but you can it snowballing, and I think it's only a matter of time. After that...
Did none of his co-workers or friends try to intervene the moment they saw those tweets...?
I believe there may have been another Bioware employee who did defend his tweets but I can't find them again, to be honest do you really think the bigger gaming sites will really report on it though? I mean I am pretty sure they have an axe to grind with Total Biscuit as well and probably silently endorse what Crooks was saying. That said I am not particularly fond of getting people fired for what they do outside the workplace, I know if the shoe was on the other foot these types of people would have no problem getting somebody else fired from their job however it is a fairly rotten thing to do and we don't really need to stoop to their level.
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