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Post by Catilina on Jun 5, 2018 3:20:59 GMT
I supported (allied) with the Templars. When it comes down to it: The Breach is a Fade Rift. A colossal one, to be sure, but it's a fade rift. This is proven through the Codex (which is written in game). As such, I would want the help of people who can deal with Fade Rifts. Inquisition tells us exactly how Templars work: They reinforce the waking world, driving back the Fade. As such, that would allow the Anchor to do its work. Plus, the mages can't handle anything related to freedom or power. We saw several times how behaved and trained mages can leave the Circle: Wynne, Bethany, Vivienne. These mages did not get it. Why? Because they couldn't handle their power. Because they constantly try to kill people. Because they killed their fellows who didn't want to help. The templars had the excuse of red lyrium. Those who aren't controlled by Corypheus with it are completely insane. The mages, by contrast, have no excuse. The mages tricked by Alexius time magic. And they were prisoners from their childhood. This is an excuse. Cassandra suggested the mages. And they have many ability. Better choice for a mage, an elf – the Templars are enemy of them. The Vashoth also doesn't have any reason to trust them. Probably a dwarf, and a non-mage Trevelyan.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 5, 2018 3:31:07 GMT
My primary "canon" Inquisitor was a Human Rogue and went Mages, just because he figured it would be a bad idea to ignore the time magic debacle in the first place. By the time he'd dealt with that, the Templars had disappeared, though he would've recruited both if he could.
My two "backup" Quizzies both went Templars. The first was an Elven Mage and figured since she could already use "enough" magic, the Templars would be more of a complementary power when the rubber met the road, especially since Cullen's evaluation of why they'd be more useful was a much more informed opinion than anything anyone else offered. My other was a Qunari, who got as far as meeting Alexius, but as soon as she got the letter from Felix saying that Mages were plotting against her, she decided rather than fight fire with fire, call it off and went and got herself a bunch of Anti-Magic soldiers.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 5, 2018 3:48:50 GMT
I can't do that with my Male Mage Inquisitor...
But my female Bow Rogue kind of figured it was better the enemy she knew then the enemy she didn't. Benjamin, her brother, was secreted away by the Templars in the middle of the night when she was younger so she really did not like her. But then the mages joining forces with Tevinter kind of put her off so she went with the Templars...and was kind of delighted to discover she could disband them. Of course I knew you could do that at the time so does that count as meta gaming? (Kara was my second PT you see).
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jun 5, 2018 4:23:17 GMT
Majority of the time I enlist the mages, because most of my games I play as a mage. We can't stand those helm polishers. When I do play a game where I side with the Templars, I break up the order.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 5, 2018 7:41:23 GMT
My main argument against going to Redcliffe Castle after you have spoken with Dorian is that it is obvious it is a trap on the part of Alexius. You are no longer going to him for help with the Breach because you know that is not what he is interested in. If he did have any concerns in that direction then he would still be happy to negotiate on neutral ground. In fact, considering the seriousness of a big hole in the sky, you would think he would be only too happy to help, just needing assurances that his mages would be allowed to leave for Tevinter afterwards. So you are then meant to walk into an obvious trap in a Castle full of mages. Even allowing for the secret tunnel, this should never have been successful. It is only because plots are rigged by the writers that the Inquisitor wasn't killed. Things that should have happened: - List item 1
- List item 2
- List item 3
There is also the fact that when you are bumped forward in time Alexius wins the confrontation at the Castle. Why? The only thing that was different was the removal of the Herald. At the point we disappear his troops had still allegedly been overwhelmed and the monarch must have already been in the grounds of the castle and in control because they appear in the throne room shortly after our return. Even the loss of the Inquisitor should not have altered those facts. You cannot have it both ways; either we had control of the situation or we didn't. So the whole plot is very contrived to ensure success even without the time travel element. The fact is that at that time the most important thing about the Herald is their ability to close rifts. Instead of deliberately putting them at risk by walking into a trap, the obvious strategy would be to go elsewhere for help with sealing the Breach, because there is an alternative, and then once the most pressing problem had been dealt with, closing the hole in the sky, deal with the Magister in Redcliffe. It should never have been about who you support in the Mage/Templar war but what is the best strategy for dealing with the Breach. I didn't go to Templars because I supported them or the Chantry controlled Circles; I went because it seemed like the sensible thing to do.
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 5, 2018 7:52:00 GMT
I picked the Templars for a simple reason: I wanted allies that specialize in killing magically empowered enemies.
My decision was vindicated by the fact that the good templars actively fight against their corrupted brethren, while the mages all shuffle their feet and go along with Fiona's plan of slavery to Tevinter, including the kids.
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Post by Verfallen on Jun 5, 2018 11:32:53 GMT
Simple. My canon Inquisitor is a mage who was locked in the Ostwick Circle at age 13. He never did fully adjust to that, but it took 18 years and the war to make it possible for him to leave. He'd sooner chew glass than ask the bloody Templars for help, particularly when mages are available. And on a purely selfish level, once he met Dorian, he'd have done nearly anything to meet him again. The fact that they're both mages and the whole threat is magically based was icing on the cake.
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Post by xerrai on Jun 5, 2018 14:38:43 GMT
Most of Inquisitors go with one of two options: 1. Ally with the Mages 2. Dissolve the Templar Order
This is because she views the Templars as soldiers. Soldiers who are ideally supposed to protect the people, only for them to willingly abandon that duty as they go about thier crusade to purge mages or otherwise blindly follow orders. Even the good natured templars like Barris. But for a people who are trained and have all the resources necessary to do the right thing, their over-zealotry proves that perhaps it is best for the Order to dissolve.
Meanwhile the mages are fumbling and tripping over themselves at Redcliffe and allying themselves to Tevinter which, while bad/horrible/stupid, my Inquisitor is more willing to forgive the incompetence of the mages. But only because they are a people fleeing from what they perceive to be oppression and/or destruction. A people who are scared, barely trained (if at all), and are by and large comprised of people who never had an opportunity to leave thier tower. This view may not apply to leaders like Fiona (who was a trained Grey Warden) and some of the First Enchanters but overall my Inquisitor views them as scared stateless persons. Barely any more or less accountable in war than the average civilian.
Edit: Changed "mage leaders" to just "mages".
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Post by pavellaning on Jun 5, 2018 19:05:55 GMT
I picked the Templars for a simple reason: I wanted allies that specialize in killing magically empowered enemies. My decision was vindicated by the fact that the good templars actively fight against their corrupted brethren, while the mages all shuffle their feet and go along with Fiona's plan of slavery to Tevinter, including the kids. This. Also, the rebel Mages made their bed and need to lie in it and I think the only just outcome for them is to reign them in as conscripts. Kind of poetic since they rebelled for alleged reasons that I find iffy. Also, for meta reasons I wanted to save Delrin Barris and Calpernia is a more compelling villain.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 5, 2018 19:19:45 GMT
I picked the Templars for a simple reason: I wanted allies that specialize in killing magically empowered enemies. My decision was vindicated by the fact that the good templars actively fight against their corrupted brethren, while the mages all shuffle their feet and go along with Fiona's plan of slavery to Tevinter, including the kids. I'm not sure the kids had much choice.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 5, 2018 19:46:12 GMT
I've just been replaying the scene in Val Royeaux and I have to admit at that point my sympathies are entirely with the mages. I witness a bully boy Templar punch a cleric for no good reason just because he can. Ser Barris witnesses this and instead of forcibly objecting to this behaviour he just stands there and says nothing. Meanwhile Lucius is firing his mouth off and then leads all the Templars out of Val Royeaux, abandoning their responsibility to protect the people. My current dwarf Herald was not impressed.
Then we meet Fiona. By contrast with Lucius she seems reasonable and willing to help. Why wouldn't I at least go to Redcliff at her invitation to discuss what help the mages can give?
However, what puzzles me regarding Fiona's future behaviour is this. Even if Alexius did wind back time to just after the news of the explosion came through, why did Fiona think the mages' position was so hopeless that she accepted his offer of indentured servitude? Here we are, several weeks later in Val Royeaux. Fiona knows the Conclave was a failure, she knows the Divine is dead and many people are blaming the mages, she knows the Templars are still on the warpath, yet she seems confident enough to offer an alliance with the Inquisition with her setting the terms. Surely if she thought the mages were losing the war and so accepted Alexius' offer, the situation was exactly the same now, yet she doesn't give the impression of someone who has lost faith in the mage rebellion and thinks they can no longer win. In fact if the mages' position was so dire immediately after the explosion, why does she even risk travelling to Val Royeaux? So winding back time still doesn't explain her change of heart. Blood magic mind manipulation would and yet they avoided using the very thing that Tevinter is famous for to explain her capitulation. Incidentally, had they done so, then I would no longer feel so aggrieved that I could not remove her as leader of the mages because obviously if she had been under the influence of blood magic then she had not acted freely and so could not be blamed.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 5, 2018 21:15:30 GMT
My canon Inquisitor, Morgan Trevelyan, had been groomed to join the Chantry. While he wasn’t keen on that life, he did have a measure of respect for the Templars and the role they serve. And while he acknowledged that the rebel mages might have legitimate grievances, he didn't believe that rebellion was justified.
Also, he surmised that the rebel mages were far more likely to be responsible for the Breach than the rebel Templars. When Cassandra suggested that going to Redcliffe might be a trap, he agreed with her. So he never took up Fiona’s invitation. He did go to Redcliffe eventually, but only after completing Champions of the Just. At that point, the mages had left.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 5, 2018 23:53:09 GMT
My Inquisitor was a Circle mage. The whole reason he was at the Conclave was to help them. That, his own bad experience in the Circle, and finding out about the illegal Annulment of the Gallows means he really has no reason to trust or seek out Templars.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 6, 2018 6:05:45 GMT
Incidentally, had they done so, then I would no longer feel so aggrieved that I could not remove her as leader of the mages because obviously if she had been under the influence of blood magic then she had not acted freely and so could not be blamed. Maybe that's exactly why they didn't? They took the tendency of fans to go "BUT MEREDITH!" whenever magic shenanigans come up in DA2 to heart and didn't want to give the easy out? As for why Rewind!Fiona capitulates to Alexius so easily when she just sort of stuck things out in the "natural" timeline, I sort've took it as not being a matter of choice. Nobody offered support to the Rebels the way things initially played out, and it seems reasonable to assume that things felt pretty desperate all along. In retrospect, things turned out fine despite that, but Alexius took the gift of retrospect away. So if he shows up, and he plays up how bad things could be for the Rebels, then it's not unthinkable that Fiona would have reason to trust his lies. Fiona poses strength when she invites the Inquisition in Val Royeaux, but it's just that, a pose. She's desperate at that point too, but she doesn't want to give away that the Rebels need the Inquisition at least as much, if not more, than the Inquisition needs the Rebels, because then it would be far easier to just say "okay, but back to the Circles with you!".
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 6, 2018 7:34:59 GMT
However, what puzzles me regarding Fiona's future behaviour is this. Even if Alexius did wind back time to just after the news of the explosion came through, why did Fiona think the mages' position was so hopeless that she accepted his offer of indentured servitude? Here we are, several weeks later in Val Royeaux. Fiona knows the Conclave was a failure, she knows the Divine is dead and many people are blaming the mages, she knows the Templars are still on the warpath, yet she seems confident enough to offer an alliance with the Inquisition with her setting the terms. Surely if she thought the mages were losing the war and so accepted Alexius' offer, the situation was exactly the same now, yet she doesn't give the impression of someone who has lost faith in the mage rebellion and thinks they can no longer win. In fact if the mages' position was so dire immediately after the explosion, why does she even risk travelling to Val Royeaux? So winding back time still doesn't explain her change of heart. Blood magic mind manipulation would and yet they avoided using the very thing that Tevinter is famous for to explain her capitulation. Incidentally, had they done so, then I would no longer feel so aggrieved that I could not remove her as leader of the mages because obviously if she had been under the influence of blood magic then she had not acted freely and so could not be blamed. Yes, but if she was under blood magic the devs would presumably have made that clear for exactly that reason. The theory I've heard that makes the most sense is that Alexius faked a templar attack on Redcliffe, to give Fiona some reason to believe she was in immediate need of more protection than the Arl of Redcliffe could give her. As for why Rewind!Fiona capitulates to Alexius so easily when she just sort of stuck things out in the "natural" timeline, I sort've took it as not being a matter of choice. Nobody offered support to the Rebels the way things initially played out, and it seems reasonable to assume that things felt pretty desperate all along. In retrospect, things turned out fine despite that, but Alexius took the gift of retrospect away. So if he shows up, and he plays up how bad things could be for the Rebels, then it's not unthinkable that Fiona would have reason to trust his lies. That doesn't seem like a sufficient explanation, though. Mainly because she isn't entirely without support at that point: she already has the Ferelden crown and the Arl of Redcliffe behind her. The Arl is sheltering her in a castle that, ten years earlier, Arl Eamon assured us could hold against darkspawn.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 6, 2018 8:24:18 GMT
That doesn't seem like a sufficient explanation, though. Mainly because she isn't entirely without support at that point: she already has the Ferelden crown and the Arl of Redcliffe behind her. The Arl is sheltering her in a castle that, ten years earlier, Arl Eamon assured us could hold against darkspawn. This is another important factor. Redcliff Castle is one of the most defensible castles in the realm of Ferelden. We are also told in Asunder that even in a largely derelict castle that they were in up in Andoral's Reach the mages could have held out for many weeks if not months against superior numbers. The problem there would have been supplies but Redcliff Castle would be well provisioned and the occupants could easily have held out until the monarch's forces arrived to relieve them. Had Templars attacked Redcliff it would have been an attack against the Crown as well as the mages, so the monarch would have no choice but to come to the aid of the castle, particularly as they were only given sanctuary at the insistence of the said monarch. Anora is said to have put her reputation on the line and given an impassioned speech to the doubters in order to allow this. Now there is no evidence that the monarch or Arl Teagan were going to withdraw their support after the Conclave. Then along comes Alexius and evicts Teagan and his family from their own castle after which understandably the mage rebellion loses all support from the Crown. However, this was only after Fiona had agreed to his proposal. Why didn't she just tell Alexius no thank you? Alternatively why didn't she insist they left at once for Tevinter? Instead we have a situation where they stay in the castle as a now occupying foreign force of the most hated nation Thedas (along with the Qun but they are currently under peace treaty with the southern states). Why would Fiona think that made their position safer than it was before rather than far worse? Instead of defending against a relatively small Templar army, they are now going to be up against the full forces of the monarch of Ferelden and likely supporters from the Freemarches as well. They were never going to get out of there alive. Fiona was not some sheltered Circle mage. She had spent many years in the Grey Wardens. She claimed to have left them and return to the Circle system specifically because she recognised the time was right for change. In other words she was claiming to think strategically. Of course it could have been a lot of hot air and given how big a mess she made of leading the rebellion, it probably was but to be honest I don't think you have to be a master of strategy to work out that throwing her lot in with Alexius was suicidal. Fiona was the Grand Enchanter who had the nerve to say "F**k the Divine" when in the White Spire surrounded by Templar forces, yet rolls over on the word of some Tevinter Magister she had never met before and effectively sells her people into slavery. It was what made my Lavellan lose all respect for her since he ardently supported the right of mages to have their freedom but thought they would rather die than surrender their autonomy again. After all that was the mantra of his people "Never again will we submit". Yet apparently freedom was not something that Fiona and her rebels were willing to die for. Actually more interesting would be to discover at what point her forces were infiltrated by the Venatori. Fenris always maintained the Resolutionists were sponsored by Tevinter. Probably not main stream Tevinter but the Venatori and they were closely connected with the Mage Underground in Kirkwall. What was surprising about Rhys and Evangeline is that they were not at the Conclave but then we discover they had also abandoned the rebellion. At what point did this happen? Rhys had been a leading player in starting the revolt and in fact his had been the deciding vote in not accepting the Divine's original offer of a truce, so why did he give up on the very people he had encouraged to fight? This is why I say the whole business of the mage rebellion was dealt with too superficially to do justice to everything that had gone before.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 6, 2018 11:57:10 GMT
I picked the Templars for a simple reason: I wanted allies that specialize in killing magically empowered enemies. My decision was vindicated by the fact that the good templars actively fight against their corrupted brethren, while the mages all shuffle their feet and go along with Fiona's plan of slavery to Tevinter, including the kids. I'm a bit confused by your phrasing here. It seems like you're blaming children for going along with adults. Or are you saying that the adults are bad for also selling the children into slavery?
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 6, 2018 12:06:47 GMT
I picked the Templars for a simple reason: I wanted allies that specialize in killing magically empowered enemies. My decision was vindicated by the fact that the good templars actively fight against their corrupted brethren, while the mages all shuffle their feet and go along with Fiona's plan of slavery to Tevinter, including the kids. I'm a bit confused by your phrasing here. It seems like you're blaming children for going along with adults. Or are you saying that the adults are bad for also selling the children into slavery? Erm, yes, as colfoley already pointed out, that was some bad phrasing on my part. I meant to say that the adults are bad for selling out the kids. One moment, I've got my "English not my first language" card right here...
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 6, 2018 12:48:53 GMT
One moment, I've got my "English not my first language" card right here... No worries at all. Even us native speakers do similar things.
While I normally don't care about seeing kids in these games (I just have no personal interest in them), I think showing some in this instance, as well as many more mages, would have better brought home the scale of Fiona's responsibility. She explicitly tells Ferelden's monarch that "hundreds need protection," but we see less than 50 in Redcliffe. Now, of course Redcliffe is larger than what we see, and I can see how stuffing the explorable area with mages would have been unfeasible for system resources, but this is one occasion where more showing and less telling would have been helpful.
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Post by xerrai on Jun 6, 2018 13:05:55 GMT
That doesn't seem like a sufficient explanation, though. Mainly because she isn't entirely without support at that point: she already has the Ferelden crown and the Arl of Redcliffe behind her. The Arl is sheltering her in a castle that, ten years earlier, Arl Eamon assured us could hold against darkspawn. This is another important factor. Redcliff Castle is one of the most defensible castles in the realm of Ferelden. We are also told in Asunder that even in a largely derelict castle that they were in up in Andoral's Reach the mages could have held out for many weeks if not months against superior numbers. The problem there would have been supplies but Redcliff Castle would be well provisioned and the occupants could easily have held out until the monarch's forces arrived to relieve them. Had Templars attacked Redcliff it would have been an attack against the Crown as well as the mages, so the monarch would have no choice but to come to the aid of the castle, particularly as they were only given sanctuary at the insistence of the said monarch. Anora is said to have put her reputation on the line and given an impassioned speech to the doubters in order to allow this. Now there is no evidence that the monarch or Arl Teagan were going to withdraw their support after the Conclave. Then along comes Alexius and evicts Teagan and his family from their own castle after which understandably the mage rebellion loses all support from the Crown. However, this was only after Fiona had agreed to his proposal. Why didn't she just tell Alexius no thank you? Alternatively why didn't she insist they left at once for Tevinter? Instead we have a situation where they stay in the castle as a now occupying foreign force of the most hated nation Thedas (along with the Qun but they are currently under peace treaty with the southern states). Why would Fiona think that made their position safer than it was before rather than far worse? Instead of defending against a relatively small Templar army, they are now going to be up against the full forces of the monarch of Ferelden and likely supporters from the Freemarches as well. They were never going to get out of there alive. Fiona was not some sheltered Circle mage. She had spent many years in the Grey Wardens. She claimed to have left them and return to the Circle system specifically because she recognised the time was right for change. In other words she was claiming to think strategically. Of course it could have been a lot of hot air and given how big a mess she made of leading the rebellion, it probably was but to be honest I don't think you have to be a master of strategy to work out that throwing her lot in with Alexius was suicidal. Fiona was the Grand Enchanter who had the nerve to say "F**k the Divine" when in the White Spire surrounded by Templar forces, yet rolls over on the word of some Tevinter Magister she had never met before and effectively sells her people into slavery. It was what made my Lavellan lose all respect for her since he ardently supported the right of mages to have their freedom but thought they would rather die than surrender their autonomy again. After all that was the mantra of his people "Never again will we submit". Yet apparently freedom was not something that Fiona and her rebels were willing to die for. Actually more interesting would be to discover at what point her forces were infiltrated by the Venatori. Fenris always maintained the Resolutionists were sponsored by Tevinter. Probably not main stream Tevinter but the Venatori and they were closely connected with the Mage Underground in Kirkwall. What was surprising about Rhys and Evangeline is that they were not at the Conclave but then we discover they had also abandoned the rebellion. At what point did this happen? Rhys had been a leading player in starting the revolt and in fact his had been the deciding vote in not accepting the Divine's original offer of a truce, so why did he give up on the very people he had encouraged to fight? This is why I say the whole business of the mage rebellion was dealt with too superficially to do justice to everything that had gone before. Yeah I think the writers dropped the ball with the mages questline. Or they intentionally wrote it this way so they make the mages look on par with the templars who were blindly ingesting red lyrium and becoming red templars. But it does make Fiona look stupid. Like, really stupid. And unwilling to see things through. But we are supposed to believe that Venatori agents infiltrated her rebellion, spreading whispers about how the templars are going to come and wipe them out. Permanently. And that the fear of total annihilation is what lead to Fiona to working with Alexius. Better have something instead of nothing right? But I never got why she choose servitude when there was a perfectly defensible castle in thier possession. Unless resources were low they had a very real shot of winning any assault the templars used. The only theory I can give is that the Venatori (as undercover mage rebellion agents) ended up setting up the eviction of the Arl and his family before Fiona actually concrete agreed to anything, all she did at the time was 'she'll think about it', and that this silent castle takeover allowed Alexius and his forces to move in without much issue no matter how much the Circle mages fussed. With Redcliffe Castle essentially stolen from under them, the rebellion was suddenly in a much weaker position as Alexius basically strong-armed Fiona into accepting his proposal. But I don't think that's how it went down. It really does look like Fiona just agreed to a Magister just because he showed up.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 6, 2018 15:14:07 GMT
That doesn't seem like a sufficient explanation, though. Mainly because she isn't entirely without support at that point: she already has the Ferelden crown and the Arl of Redcliffe behind her. The Arl is sheltering her in a castle that, ten years earlier, Arl Eamon assured us could hold against darkspawn. The thing is that she believed that support was going to be withdrawn. Many thought the Rebels were responsible for sabotaging the peace talks, and Fiona thought it not unreasonable that her noble support might cut them off in order to save face. We know it wouldn't have happened, but that's a hindsight 20/20 thing. Plus, I'm not sure that for a group of people who started a war based on the principle of "we don't want to be confined in a tower anymore" really see being holed up in a castle as really a point of victory, no matter how defensible that castle might be. Stick a couple Templars at the gate and put a sign that says "REDCLIFFE CIRCLE" on it, and who could tell the difference?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 6, 2018 15:48:16 GMT
Plus, I'm not sure that for a group of people who started a war based on the principle of "we don't want to be confined in a tower anymore" I think the rebellion was based on more than just an unwillingness to be confined in one place (or several places). If the history of the southern Circles is to be believed the mages were originally in favour of being separated from the community at large so they could study magic in peace. This may have largely been Chantry propaganda but you have to ask how the situation continued for so many hundred years if it started out in exactly the same way as it finished. Of course the Chantry didn't hold universal sway over all southern Thedas during those centuries. They only really got a foothold and control over the mage population in Ferelden thanks to Calenhad. Their hold in Rivain was always tenuous at best. Then you have various Blights and invasion by Qunari that gave mages more freedom of movement because, as Justinia recognised, their co-operation was needed. So it may be imagined that the circumstances that led to the rebellion had probably built up over the period since the Lomerryn Accord was signed. The Circles started becoming much more like prisons (again) and the Templars were far more prone to abuses than they once had been. Cullen makes reference to this in DA2 saying that even the outside population didn't seem to revere them as they once had. Probably word has started to get out about what mages suffered in the Circles, particularly those from non-noble backgrounds. So it was more than just a case of not wishing to be confined in a tower but everything else that went with it; the lack of control over their own destiny being paramount. In fact Aldenon summed up the Circles very well and it has to be admitted this was back in the time of Calenhad: “A civilization cannot be civil if it condones the slavery of another. And that is what this Circle is! But by accident of birth, those mages would be free to live, love, and die as they choose. The Circles will break—if it be one year, a decade, a century, or beyond. Tyrants always fall, and the downtrodden always strive for freedom!” So what the mages were fighting for was their freedom to live as they chose. Then Fiona threw it all away and indentured them to a Tevinter Magister, which effectively was selling them back into slavery. And all her fellow rebels seemed capable of was whining about it rather than actually taking some action to overturn that decision and demonstrate their loyalty to the monarch who had recognised their right to freedom. As Vivienne says, their actions had only confirmed everyone's prejudices about mages and what they will do if given their freedom, sell out the population to Tevinter. What I'd really liked to have done was pack Fiona off to Tevinter since that is where she thought she would rather be and let the mages have a leader worthy of the name. The best the game allowed me to do was conscript them into the Inquisition but then everyone criticises me for it and thinks that is because I favour mages as prisoners when I most definitely did not. Then the writers do an about face at the end and have my conscripted mages form the Bright Hand who are the only mages by the end of Trespasser who seem to have the backbone to stand up to Vivienne. So from a meta-gaming point of view I found conscripting them (and having Leliana or Cassandra as Divine) seemed to give the best outcome.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 6, 2018 17:21:07 GMT
Fiona agreed to sell the mages into slavery because she could no longer win the war. It's as simple as that. Her side, which never had the support of all mages, had suffered too many losses. The Venatori spies convinced her that the templars were closing in, but even if they successfully repelled the templars, what then? Stay in Redcliffe indefinitely, depending on the King of Ferelden's largesse? Do you think Fiona, who had the temper of a high dragon, would be content with a STALEMATE?
Fiona hated the templars. She would have done anything to see them crushed. That included selling herself and her fellow mages into slavery to the Tevinter Imperium and then willingly serving a darkspawn magister.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 6, 2018 17:47:11 GMT
Fiona agreed to sell the mages into slavery because she could no longer win the war. It's as simple as that. Her side, which never had the support of all mages, had suffered too many losses. The Venatori spies convinced her that the templars were closing in, but even if they successfully repelled the templars, what then? Stay in Redcliffe indefinitely, depending on the King of Ferelden's largesse? Do you think Fiona, who had the temper of a high dragon, would be content with a STALEMATE? Fiona hated the templars. She would have done anything to see them crushed. That included selling herself and her fellow mages into slavery to the Tevinter Imperium and then willingly serving a darkspawn magister. Not slavery – Alexius wanted to conscript them, for cityzenship. She wanted to leave Redcliffe. Alexius trycked her. You don't see, what OOC it is? Fiona was a slave, who killed her master. She would never do that without manipulation. You said: Fiona's temper like a high dragons'...
And the templars refused to help, when demons fell from the sky... they refused their duty: why would the Inquisitor follow them. They were very clear: their personal war more important, than ending the chaos.
(And the Templars served a demon – and a darkspawn magister...)
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 6, 2018 17:59:15 GMT
Not slavery – Alexius wanted to conscript them, for cityzenship. After a period of indentured servitude lasting 10 years. Slavery by any other definition. And yes, Fiona was a slave. But you fail to grasp the magnitude of her hatred for Templars. She hated them more than darkspawn or Tevinters. (And the Templars served a demon – and a darkspawn magister...)
Not by choice, for the most part. The Templars were betrayed by Dennan and fed red lyrium without knowing what it would do to them. Also, the demon was in disguise as the Lord Seeker.
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