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Post by xerrai on Oct 8, 2016 2:08:17 GMT
So one day I was thinking on how underdeveloped Thedas likely was when it came to mental illness. Like depression, bipolar disorder that sort of thing. It's probably horrible. Apart from magic, most of Thedas's material healing relies on either superstition or humorism which does not speak well for their understanding of illness in general much less illnesses of the mind. Then I thought "dementia" cause, you know, that's a thing that can happen to person. It doesn't even have to happen because of a bad health history, but just something that can happen due to aging. Aging. Growing old. The thing that cannot be avoided. The natural deterioration of the body's functions that usually requires the younger generation to help out as their body gets harder to move and it becomes difficult to remember certain things. It's not much to think about when you think of it in regular terms where an aging person can simply move in with a family member or try living it up on their own until the time is right, but not so much for mages (I imagine). We know Templars have their own retirement home equivalent in Val Royeaux because of how lyrium can cause mental deterioration but what about mages? An deteriorating mind does not exactly bode well for people with a high risk of possession and can shoot fire from their fingertips. I'm sure many aging mages are fine. After all my grandma is in her 80s and still baking cookies and giving flak to anyone who treats her like an old senile. But there are simply some who exist who....age badly. So I can't help but wonder what it means to be an exceptionally old mage in a Circle tower. Are they treated with respect or a high risk person? Or both? If they show probable signs of dementia that causes certain unstable episodes do the Templars/Chantry show some amount of leniency or do they, you know...tranquil them because they may not control their powers. Do they get special treatment because of their age? Special accommodations maybe (God I hope so  )? There is some part of me that refuses to let this thought go. |
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Post by Catilina on Oct 8, 2016 2:39:43 GMT
[...]Do they get special treatment because of their age? Special accommodations maybe (God I hope so )? There is some part of me that refuses to let this thought go. Tranquilizing? (According the Chantry this is a merciful solution...) |
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Post by phoray on Oct 8, 2016 4:18:10 GMT
Honestly, my first thought to this was ,"how many mages even make it to old age?"
Mob could kill you before you even get found by Templars
Skill isn't high enough? Death by abomination or Tranquil
Act up too much? Tranquil
Suicide due to circle life restrictions
Death during battle your country sent you to.
Any variety of illnesses that healing magic doesn't seem to fix
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 8, 2016 10:41:52 GMT
One thing that has never really been made clear in Thedas is how long do people live regardless of whether they are mages. We occasionally see examples of older people but given the feudal society, you'd think they would be rather rare among the peasant population, owing to the hardness of their lives. If they are lucky I presume they might find sanctuary at the Chantry during their old age. Otherwise they probably starve if they haven't a family to care for them.
Dementia in Thedas doesn't seem to exist (although Divine Beatrice is portrayed as pretty senile in Asunder), except when it is magically induced, as with Templars whose minds have been broken by prolonged use of lyrium. Actually you'd think mages must be similarly at risk because of their use of lyrium. Still, may be mages whose minds deteriorate simply become less interesting to demons. I can only go by my mother's dementia but because her short term memory went, she had much more subdued emotions than she had previously. She might get irritated by something but she didn't stay angry because she couldn't remember what she had been angry about. She didn't worry about things because she very quickly forgot about them. She certainly wasn't ambitious and driven in the way she had once been. So there were no powerful emotions that we are told are what demons are attracted to. The changes in the person we find distressing as onlookers probably wouldn't bother people much in the Circles unless they are particularly close to the mage. The only concern is whether they are safe or not.
If the mage developed dementia, I imagine that some apprentice would be assign to look after their daily needs, such as bring them their food and it would probably be the job of a junior Templar to keep an eye on things just in case but I dare say they would be considered less of a risk than young apprentices or newly promoted Enchanters, all fired up and wanting to test the boundaries of their magic or resentful of being confined.
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Post by patches on Oct 8, 2016 15:54:12 GMT
There's a mage in the DAO Circle origin who you can get to sign the permission slip for a Rod of Fire who seems pretty old and losing it a bit. Ultimately I think it would come down to how much of a risk the mage poses, if they're just a bit dotty then the templars probably don't do anything but the minute they start losing control of their magic they are quietly killed.
Would the tranquility process even work on someone with dementia? Or any mage with a serious mental illness?
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Post by phoray on Oct 8, 2016 16:10:24 GMT
There's a mage in the DAO Circle origin who you can get to sign the permission slip for a Rod of Fire who seems pretty old and losing it a bit. Ultimately I think it would come down to how much of a risk the mage poses, if they're just a bit dotty then the templars probably don't do anything but the minute they start losing control of their magic they are quietly killed. Would the tranquility process even work on someone with dementia? Or any mage with a serious mental illness? Since it's merely a severance from the fade and doesn't rely on mental stability and inteligence at all, I would hazard it would work just fine. ---- OP: Doesn't Anders? Or maybe Orsino? Say suicide is #1 cause of death in Circles? |
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Post by Catilina on Oct 8, 2016 16:14:57 GMT
There's a mage in the DAO Circle origin who you can get to sign the permission slip for a Rod of Fire who seems pretty old and losing it a bit. Ultimately I think it would come down to how much of a risk the mage poses, if they're just a bit dotty then the templars probably don't do anything but the minute they start losing control of their magic they are quietly killed. Would the tranquility process even work on someone with dementia? Or any mage with a serious mental illness? Since it's merely a severance from the fade and doesn't rely on mental stability and inteligence at all, I would hazard it would work just fine. ---- OP: Doesn't Anders? Or maybe Orsino? Say suicide is #1 cause of death in Circles? Rather Anders – as I remember. |
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Post by phoray on Oct 8, 2016 16:17:21 GMT
Just thought of something: "And every Circle's Health plan promises a calm yet productive retirement."  |
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Post by Iakus on Oct 8, 2016 16:41:26 GMT
There are a number of elderly mages in both the games and the books. First Enchanter Edmonde in Asunder was pretty old.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 8, 2016 19:47:24 GMT
If you get to an advanced age in the Circles then you are likely accepting of your situation. In Asunder, Edmonde seemed to have had much of the stuffing knocked out of him and didn't want to cause trouble. Having strong emotions is the dangerous thing. I'm not saying the elderly don't have strong emotions but being institutionalised for so many years probably does have the affect of suppressing them.
Really no matter what your age is, it all comes down to how much of a threat you are perceived to be.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Oct 9, 2016 4:03:58 GMT
One thing that has never really been made clear in Thedas is how long do people live regardless of whether they are mages. We occasionally see examples of older people but given the feudal society, you'd think they would be rather rare among the peasant population, owing to the hardness of their lives. Not necessarily. Even people in the actual European Middle Ages had a pretty good chance of making it to seventy if they lived through the two risk periods in their youth. Infant mortality was very high, and there was another large spike in the late teens/early twenties caused by childbirth for women and violence for men. And people in Thedas seem a LOT healthier than actual Medieval peasants. (They've got a lot of advantages - healing magic seems to help with at least some stuff, and hygiene standards are higher.) |
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Post by Blaze on Oct 9, 2016 7:58:11 GMT
on the subject of mental illness there was the the side quest in dragon age 2 with the magistrate's son who was thinking demons are talking to him, i really loved it because it was a classic case of schizophrenia yet in the dragon age medieval setting he was concidered crazy by people so i thought it was very nice it was addressed. there is also sandal, not really mental illness but he does have a case of autism which again it's something unknown in the setting and he just seen as wierd by people, though in his case some recognize his genius.
also if i remember right, there was a senile mage in dragon age origins in the mage origin. i don't think it makes them more pron to be possesed by demons, if anything it would be less likely.
but yeah i think we need more senile old people or generally more character with mental illness that in the dragon age setting would not be concidred as mental illness (mostly because it's not a known thing at the time and setting).
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 9, 2016 8:24:12 GMT
If you get to an advanced age in the Circles then you are likely accepting of your situation. In Asunder, Edmonde seemed to have had much of the stuffing knocked out of him and didn't want to cause trouble. Having strong emotions is the dangerous thing. I'm not saying the elderly don't have strong emotions but being institutionalised for so many years probably does have the affect of suppressing them. Really no matter what your age is, it all comes down to how much of a threat you are perceived to be. Older people are generally more settled in life. As for the whole confinement thing, you have to remember that the Circle of Magi exists in a very dangerous environment - Theodosian commoners do frequently die of illnesses and diseases, as well as malnutrition or bandit attack. Hawke's grandparents for instance, died due to cholera. To this day, I have not read or seen anything about a Circle Mage that died of illness - Most either die of old age and in the terrible Circles, they get executed by Templars. Since a Circle typically houses Spirit Healers and expert Alchemists, the elderly mages will be well taken care of with regards to physical health. Furthermore, we have to consider the beneficial impacts of magic on aging. Kinloch Hold in Dragon Age Origins had Wynne and Irving. Both of them are past their middle age. In Asunder, Wynne can be classified as an old woman for real. Yet they are fitter and healthier than the average Theodosian commoner. As for mental health, that's another problem entirely - We could extrapolate based on the elderly living in old folks homes, many of them just end up staying there for the remainder of their lives. So, does anyone know about the mental health of the elderly in old folks homes ? |
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 9, 2016 11:07:25 GMT
That is entirely dependent on how much stimulus they get and whether there are other factors involved, like dementia. In straight forward homes for the elderly their minds can still be active to a very advanced age provided they are not left to just vegetate. The mind needs exercising to keep it fit like any part of the body. So if the elderly mages are actively involved in teaching the young, they will likely keep in good mental health, unless of course they don't actually like teaching the young. Still they can probably amuse themselves making the life of their pupils absolute hell if that is the case. Likely they can also amuse themselves playing chess with other senior mages or researching arcane lore. I am sure there are many ways they can still keep their minds fit and active.
The original poster seemed to be particularly asking about the situation if the mage has poor mental health or dementia. General poor mental health will have manifested at a much earlier age and likely the mage would have been despatched by the Templars long before they reached advanced years. Dementia I have already covered above.
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Oct 9, 2016 16:34:36 GMT
We see elderly mages in the first game, ones that have names and lines. There's no reason to doubt they exist.
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Post by xerrai on Oct 9, 2016 20:19:54 GMT
Thanks for all of the responses guys!
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Post by oyabun on Oct 9, 2016 22:32:17 GMT
One thing that has never really been made clear in Thedas is how long do people live regardless of whether they are mages. We occasionally see examples of older people but given the feudal society, you'd think they would be rather rare among the peasant population, owing to the hardness of their lives. Not necessarily. Even people in the actual European Middle Ages had a pretty good chance of making it to seventy if they lived through the two risk periods in their youth. Infant mortality was very high, and there was another large spike in the late teens/early twenties caused by childbirth for women and violence for men. And people in Thedas seem a LOT healthier than actual Medieval peasants. (They've got a lot of advantages - healing magic seems to help with at least some stuff, and hygiene standards are higher.) Hygiene standards are higher?DID you saw the sewer in Kirkwall or the castless district in orzamarr? |
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Oct 9, 2016 23:47:46 GMT
Not necessarily. Even people in the actual European Middle Ages had a pretty good chance of making it to seventy if they lived through the two risk periods in their youth. Infant mortality was very high, and there was another large spike in the late teens/early twenties caused by childbirth for women and violence for men. And people in Thedas seem a LOT healthier than actual Medieval peasants. (They've got a lot of advantages - healing magic seems to help with at least some stuff, and hygiene standards are higher.) Hygiene standards are higher?DID you saw the sewer in Kirkwall or the castless district in orzamarr? Yes. What I didn't see were piles of shit and rivers of excrement in the streets, which were common in Medieval cities. Dust Town is, well, dusty but doesn't seem any dirtier than Kirkwall's Low Town or the elven alienages we've seen. The sewers are filthy, but that's because they're sewers! It's actually great that Kirkwall has them, because it means that the waste isn't sitting in the road. While there are people sheltering down there, that's not where the average Theodosian peasant lives. I'm not saying Thedas is up to standards of hygiene in modern developed countries - we know they still have problems with cholera, which means that their water supply isn't always clean. Just that it's doing better than the real world was at a comparable point in our history. |
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Post by oyabun on Oct 10, 2016 0:59:49 GMT
Hygiene standards are higher?DID you saw the sewer in Kirkwall or the castless district in orzamarr? Yes. What I didn't see were piles of shit and rivers of excrement in the streets, which were common in Medieval cities. Dust Town is, well, dusty but doesn't seem any dirtier than Kirkwall's Low Town or the elven alienages we've seen. The sewers are filthy, but that's because they're sewers! It's actually great that Kirkwall has them, because it means that the waste isn't sitting in the road. While there are people sheltering down there, that's not where the average Theodosian peasant lives. I'm not saying Thedas is up to standards of hygiene in modern developed countries - we know they still have problems with cholera, which means that their water supply isn't always clean. Just that it's doing better than the real world was at a comparable point in our history. The designers of DAO and DA2 did not crafted those elements in the game but that it does not mean they are not there,from how the NPC describe some places and the smell of them one can assume those issues exist Also in Thedas. |
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Post by fylimar on Oct 11, 2016 10:01:09 GMT
on the subject of mental illness there was the the side quest in dragon age 2 with the magistrate's son who was thinking demons are talking to him, i really loved it because it was a classic case of schizophrenia yet in the dragon age medieval setting he was concidered crazy by people so i thought it was very nice it was addressed. there is also sandal, not really mental illness but he does have a case of autism which again it's something unknown in the setting and he just seen as wierd by people, though in his case some recognize his genius. also if i remember right, there was a senile mage in dragon age origins in the mage origin. i don't think it makes them more pron to be possesed by demons, if anything it would be less likely. but yeah i think we need more senile old people or generally more character with mental illness that in the dragon age setting would not be concidred as mental illness (mostly because it's not a known thing at the time and setting). I agree. I like, how the games bring in those cases of mental illness and autism, with the game protagonists being mostly blind to that. There is also Cullen with his post traumatic stress syndrom or Emeric, who seems to begin to suffer from dementia due to the Lyrium addiction. To the topic at hand: I wrote it in another thread, where I adressed Cullens ptsd and the lack of help, he received due to Thedas ignorance towards mental illnesses, there probably will be no other way of treatment for mages with mental illnesses than making them tranquil, for the sheer lack of understanding of their condition. I don't think, the average templar will be able to see the difference between a mage with schizophrenia, dementia or any other illness and possession. I guess, the mages are safe, as long, as they are just a bit 'strange' in a nice or funny way, like that old enchanter in the mage origin in DAO. |
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