Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 3, 2018 17:05:42 GMT
No. There is no one group of people out there with the exact same tastes I think the internet commentators need to grow up and understand that. They are welcome to speak for themselves in what they want to see, but I am getting extremely tired of people claiming they are speaking for me. I have been playing BioWare games for decades now I am pretty sure I would classify as a traditional BioWare fan as well and I am okay with the coverage, it just hasn't made my decision final yet. Just because what they are showing isn't what those people want to see my response is tough. Those systems might not be finished or ready for show yet and they are showing what they want to or have far enough along in development they want to demonstrate. If there are specific things people want to see before buying the game, do the unimaginable and wait for the game to be released and then look for information elsewhere. There will be plenty of YouTube coverage criticizing every aspect of the game so they can see how horrible everything is for themselves.
Quoted for truth.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 3, 2018 17:12:22 GMT
uh, the chief as the only protagonist was confirmed, yes we have not seen how well they are doing yet but the change was still spurred by fan feed back and backlash Also, halo 5, differently than MEA, was ridiculously profitable and the MP (which I could care less about but furthers my point) AFTER the changes made between 4 and 5 due to massive fan backlash, is regarded as some of the best in the series The changes between Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect: Andromeda were due to fans being fanatics too. People kept moaning about wanting the exploration of Mass Effect 1 and how BioWare abandoned that with Mass Effect 2 and 3, and they were upset that Mass Effect 3 didn't have the companion content at launch like Mass Effect 2. They attempted to fix those things with Andromeda and people still found things to complain about. Which is the same with the changes are you are talking about with the changes to Halo based on fanatic feedback. I don't have access to real numbers about the financial success or failures of either game so I am unable to comment about your speculation about how well each game did. Mass Effect Andromeda was made by a different studio altogether, it is not an entirely fair statement...and MEA had legitimate GLARING flaws people had a right to complain about. Or are you denying that? Also I do not recall people complaining about exploration and character context in Andromeda....
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 3, 2018 17:12:44 GMT
I'm so sorry but...are you TRYING to he daft?? Of course I'm trying to be daft, a reductio ad absurdum argument seemed the way to go. I'm trying to find a level of logic that matches the arguments that you have been making. If Anthem fails, you want BioWare to 'go back to making 'original Dragon Age style' games, when DA4 has been in development already for 3.5 years? That makes no sense. You've just demolished my argument which is structurally similar to your own. "Old school" is just old. We'll see more about what Anthem, DA4 and future Mass Effect are in due course (plus smaller experimental games). Then we can choose to buy or not.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 3, 2018 17:16:30 GMT
Damn, where's Jeremy Kyle when you need him. Because this thread needs him. 😂
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Post by simit on Jul 3, 2018 17:31:32 GMT
Wit ya mean, a mean wtf da ya mean, you know wit a mean
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 3, 2018 18:18:47 GMT
Damn, where's Jeremy Kyle when you need him. Because this thread needs him. 😂 Ha. If the discussion can remain focused on the arguments instead of ad hominem, then this is kind of what forums do.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 3, 2018 18:57:13 GMT
The changes between Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect: Andromeda were due to fans being fanatics too. People kept moaning about wanting the exploration of Mass Effect 1 and how BioWare abandoned that with Mass Effect 2 and 3, and they were upset that Mass Effect 3 didn't have the companion content at launch like Mass Effect 2. They attempted to fix those things with Andromeda and people still found things to complain about. Which is the same with the changes are you are talking about with the changes to Halo based on fanatic feedback. I don't have access to real numbers about the financial success or failures of either game so I am unable to comment about your speculation about how well each game did. Mass Effect Andromeda was made by a different studio altogether, it is not an entirely fair statement...and MEA had legitimate GLARING flaws people had a right to complain about. Or are you denying that? Also I do not recall people complaining about exploration and character context in Andromeda.... I think his point is that fans will always find ways to complain about something regardless if they're legit or not.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 3, 2018 21:26:50 GMT
Mass Effect Andromeda was made by a different studio altogether, it is not an entirely fair statement...and MEA had legitimate GLARING flaws people had a right to complain about. Or are you denying that? Also I do not recall people complaining about exploration and character context in Andromeda.... I think his point is that fans will always find ways to complain about something regardless if they're legit or not. and my point was "were those complaints not warranted in Andromeda's case" Also, again look at halo 5's multiplayer....yes a SMALL portion of fans complained yet the vast majority vocally says it is pretty much the best since halo 3.
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 3, 2018 21:59:04 GMT
I think his point is that fans will always find ways to complain about something regardless if they're legit or not. and my point was "were those complaints not warranted in Andromeda's case" Also, again look at halo 5's multiplayer....yes a SMALL portion of fans complained yet the vast majority vocally says it is pretty much the best since halo 3. I never said the complaints were unwarranted, but what I am saying is BioWare tried in the past to address the mob mentality of the internet and its complaints when designing Andromeda from all the criticisms from Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 and it wasn't done the way people wanted if anything there were more complaints about the game. I expect that if BioWare went back and tried to address the complaints with Andromeda it would be received any better, for people want everything in a BioWare game catered to them and if it isn't it becomes a backlash that people pile onto. Do I think BioWare will work on facial animations in the next game? Of course, but I also think its going to come at a cost that is going to piss people off. Such as less dialogue which people complained a lot about in Mass Effect 3 with having very few neutral options. How about less romances in the game so they can spend the animation time better, well with Andromeda there were the groups that were upset about male/male romance count for two instead of three. Now I can see some of the argument, but still there were complaints about the numbers and how they weren't all equal. Better yet people keep asking for the ability to play another race do you think they will take the time for all those additional animation and QA time when they are spending so much time on facial animations. Now with all that said there will be also people that don't care about those changes, but it seems since EA took over people are looking for a reason to be pissed at BioWare. That is my point, I don't think addressing the complaints is going to make people happy for there is going to be something done while addressing those that will cause more complaints. Then BioWare will address those in the next game while sacrificing more.
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Post by helios969 on Jul 3, 2018 22:17:05 GMT
and my point was "were those complaints not warranted in Andromeda's case" Also, again look at halo 5's multiplayer....yes a SMALL portion of fans complained yet the vast majority vocally says it is pretty much the best since halo 3. I never said the complaints were unwarranted, but what I am saying is BioWare tried in the past to address the mob mentality of the internet and its complaints when designing Andromeda from all the criticisms from Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 and it wasn't done the way people wanted if anything there were more complaints about the game. I expect that if BioWare went back and tried to address the complaints with Andromeda it would be received any better, for people want everything in a BioWare game catered to them and if it isn't it becomes a backlash that people pile onto. Do I think BioWare will work on facial animations in the next game? Of course, but I also think its going to come at a cost that is going to piss people off. Such as less dialogue which people complained a lot about in Mass Effect 3 with having very few neutral options. How about less romances in the game so they can spend the animation time better, well with Andromeda there were the groups that were upset about male/male romance count for two instead of three. Now I can see some of the argument, but still there were complaints about the numbers and how they weren't all equal. Better yet people keep asking for the ability to play another race do you think they will take the time for all those additional animation and QA time when they are spending so much time on facial animations. Now with all that said there will be also people that don't care about those changes, but it seems since EA took over people are looking for a reason to be pissed at BioWare. That is my point, I don't think addressing the complaints is going to make people happy for there is going to be something done while addressing those that will cause more complaints. Then BioWare will address those in the next game while sacrificing more. Which is exactly why Bioware should ignore the more ridiculous "fans" whose demands for more and more of the peripheral BS is impeding their ability to create a complete experience. This is partly why I'm just glad they killed romances for Anthem. It's such a huge resource drain...and no matter how much content they provide "fans" still b*tch and whine.
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Post by river82 on Jul 3, 2018 22:34:34 GMT
Bioware are in the AAA gaming business, which is a business designed around appealing to the maximum number of people. It's not about appealing to one or two people who likes everything they've ever produced. In fact, people who like everything ever produced give the worst possible feedback (otherwise known as feedback that leads to stagnation).
Ignoring poor facial animations is a silly idea, because a large portion of the gaming audience want the graphics. Ignoring romances may very well be a silly idea for any Bioware game that's not Anthem (a co-op shooter not big on companions with a few sprinkled RPG mechanics). Personally I'd be all for getting rid of the romances, but a large section of Bioware's RPG fanbase loves them, which is probably part of the reason why Bioware is willing to spend so much money on it. Anyway, the thing that killed Andromeda's development time was their attempting to make it a No Man's Sky clone, so imo they should do away with exploration. Going from exloration in ME1 to no exploration in ME2 and ME3 only lead to increased sales, so ...
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Jul 3, 2018 23:06:23 GMT
Exploration done right is not a problem. The problem is that they tried to emulate No Man's Sky procedural worlds, which took some time in development and probably the end result was as bad as the ones in that game. This forced them to start again with the creation of MEA worlds.
Just imagine if they had gone with this idea from the start, spending 2(?) extra years making the game. Maybe we would end up with more worlds (more detailed too) and less bugs on release.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jul 3, 2018 23:59:22 GMT
Bioware are in the AAA gaming business, which is a business designed around appealing to the maximum number of people. It's not about appealing to one or two people who likes everything they've ever produced. In fact, people who like everything ever produced give the worst possible feedback (otherwise known as feedback that leads to stagnation). Agreed. Disagreed. First of all, I explored tf out of ME2 and ME3. Because I’m an Explorer type and that’s how I roll. Second, if the problem is poorly executed exploration gameplay, the correct solution is to do a better job at execution, not dump the gameplay design feature altogether. Third, attributing the success of ME2/3 solely to less exploration is silly. HZD was also successful and it broke new ground in exploration gameplay. And don’t even start with the old argument that open worlds make good storytelling impossible, because TW3.
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 4, 2018 0:26:05 GMT
Exploration done right is not a problem. The problem is that they tried to emulate No Man's Sky procedural worlds, which took some time in development and probably the end result was as bad as the ones in that game. This forced them to start again with the creation of MEA worlds. Just imagine if they had gone with this idea from the start, spending 2(?) extra years making the game. Maybe we would end up with more worlds (more detailed too) and less bugs on release. Yeah...still we got a great game. Well better to hear the sound a string bursting than never to draw your bow.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 4, 2018 0:31:57 GMT
Exploration done right is not a problem. The problem is that they tried to emulate No Man's Sky procedural worlds, which took some time in development and probably the end result was as bad as the ones in that game. This forced them to start again with the creation of MEA worlds. Just imagine if they had gone with this idea from the start, spending 2(?) extra years making the game. Maybe we would end up with more worlds (more detailed too) and less bugs on release. Nah, I don't think the addition or removal of procedural worlds made that much of a difference. My understanding from a couple of articles was going to be just for UNC type missions, I remember how BioWare was talking with Mass Effect 1 how those worlds were randomly generated and they just polished them up for the single mission they were on to give them an "alien feeling". So think of it this way, all the key planets we had in the release version plus the procedural planets for more missions. Since it was an addition to what we got I bet it was a bunch of people that were hired just for that aspect of the game and there was a separate budget line for it.
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Post by goishen on Jul 4, 2018 1:46:24 GMT
Exploration done right is not a problem. The problem is that they tried to emulate No Man's Sky procedural worlds, which took some time in development and probably the end result was as bad as the ones in that game. This forced them to start again with the creation of MEA worlds. Just imagine if they had gone with this idea from the start, spending 2(?) extra years making the game. Maybe we would end up with more worlds (more detailed too) and less bugs on release. Yeah...still we got a great game. Well better to hear the sound a string bursting than never to draw your bow. Yah. You and 12 other people think so. There are 14 people viewing this forum currently. Great sample size you got here. Ride Or Die, Andromeda. RIDE OR DIE.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Jul 4, 2018 2:19:33 GMT
Yeah...still we got a great game. Well better to hear the sound a string bursting than never to draw your bow. Yah. You and 12 other people think so. There are 14 people viewing this forum currently. Great sample size you got here. Ride Or Die, Andromeda. RIDE OR DIE. And a even smaller sample says the game failed here (by your own words), so your point?
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 4, 2018 6:38:15 GMT
I'm so sorry but...are you TRYING to he daft?? Of course I'm trying to be daft, a reductio ad absurdum argument seemed the way to go. I'm trying to find a level of logic that matches the arguments that you have been making. Holy shit, that burn!
I hope he understood that.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 6:57:09 GMT
Holy shit, that burn!
I hope he understood that. And I'm honestly not trying to be mean. A point to make really clear to dropzofcrimzon and others is that this forum exists to share different perspectives. Whilst DoC's position may appear extreme, I think its a perspective sincerely held by some BioWare fans, furthermore, it's ok to express it, so long as it doesn't reach the level of 'opinion spam'. Many forms of social media such as YouTube and Twitter, often by virtue of their structure have lost the ability to have a good debate. We seem to no longer have the facility to string a discussion together, just throw soundbites at each other. So thank you for sharing dropzofcrimzon , genuinely.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 4, 2018 7:26:01 GMT
Holy shit, that burn!
I hope he understood that. And I'm honestly not trying to be mean. A point to make really clear to dropzofcrimzon and others is that this forum exists to share different perspectives. Whilst DoC's position may appear extreme, I think its a perspective sincerely held by some BioWare fans, furthermore, it's ok to express it, so long as it doesn't reach the level of 'opinion spam'. Many forms of social media such as YouTube and Twitter, often by virtue of their structure have lost the ability to have a good debate. We seem to no longer have the facility to string a discussion together, just throw soundbites at each other. So thank you for sharing dropzofcrimzon , genuinely. I'm rather on the cynical side of the spectrum in a people-filled room, but my red button is closed mindedness. I would not classify such repeat vocal forum annoyances as bioware fans.
First of all, they like(d) only 1 or 2 bioware games. Bioware just happened to make a game that fit their personal views. You're not a developr fan if you like only one game. For example. I think MGSV was pretty likeable, but am by no means a hideo kojima fan. Second, fans give constructive criticism. Repeatedly pointing out unfounded opinionated flaws is nowhere near constructive criticism.
Now, I get your viewpoint as moderator that everyone should be able to express their opinion and in no shape or size support censorship. However, as a forum user, I would also like to point out that this type of discussions degrades the overall forum experience.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 8:02:08 GMT
Now, I get your viewpoint as moderator that everyone should be able to express their opinion and in no shape or size support censorship. However, as a forum user, I would also like to point out that this type of discussions degrades the overall forum experience. That's fair. It's about finding a balance. Sharing vs. dominating. It's also about having different threads for different purposes.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 4, 2018 8:28:07 GMT
Now, I get your viewpoint as moderator that everyone should be able to express their opinion and in no shape or size support censorship. However, as a forum user, I would also like to point out that this type of discussions degrades the overall forum experience. That's fair. It's about finding a balance. Sharing vs. dominating. It's also about having different threads for different purposes. The old "if you don't like it, don't use it" argument. Sadly, it is equally true in it's application, as it is harsh in it's consequence.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 9:32:21 GMT
The old "if you don't like it, don't use it" argument. Sadly, it is equally true in it's application, as it is harsh in it's consequence. And David Gaider once talked about the idea of 'investment'. Though seemingly illogical, it is possible to be deeply invested in a company / brand / hobby even if you don't like what has been done for a decade or more...
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 4, 2018 10:15:53 GMT
The old "if you don't like it, don't use it" argument. Sadly, it is equally true in it's application, as it is harsh in it's consequence. And David Gaider once talked about the idea of 'investment'. Though seemingly illogical, it is possible to be deeply invested in a company / brand / hobby even if you don't like what has been done for a decade or more... Why does 'America' spring to mind as an example?
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Post by helios969 on Jul 4, 2018 10:54:49 GMT
And David Gaider once talked about the idea of 'investment'. Though seemingly illogical, it is possible to be deeply invested in a company / brand / hobby even if you don't like what has been done for a decade or more... Why does 'America' spring to mind as an example? 'Cause it's our birthday today?
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