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Post by Lazarillo on Jul 5, 2018 13:52:38 GMT
You're a developer fan If you like the developer. That can be after one, two, seven, whatever games.
If you don't like the developer (for whatever reason, but for the sake of argument let's say... oh, uh, I dunno... "because they're not making the game you like anymore") even if you used to like one, two, seven, whatever games they made earlier, you're not a developer fan. In that case why would anyone be a fan of a developer? (That may be the point you're trying to make, I'm not sure)
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jul 5, 2018 18:41:22 GMT
Now i want to see anyone try to spin this. It won't be as entertaining as you think. Anything that doesn't fit the worldview is simply denied.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jul 5, 2018 18:46:28 GMT
You're a developer fan If you like the developer. That can be after one, two, seven, whatever games.
If you don't like the developer (for whatever reason, but for the sake of argument let's say... oh, uh, I dunno... "because they're not making the game you like anymore") even if you used to like one, two, seven, whatever games they made earlier, you're not a developer fan. In that case why would anyone be a fan of a developer? (That may be the point you're trying to make, I'm not sure) Exactly. But not being a fan doesn't mean one is an enemy. It's not everyone not with me is against me, that's silly. Maybe my attitude is the exception, but AFAIC, past history is no predictor of future results with respect to game brands, and that cuts both ways. But that doesn't mean I greet each new offering with aggressive negativity, or even unalloyed skepticism. If I liked their last game, I'll give their new game a fair hearing. If I hated their last game, I'll give their new game a fair hearing.Where I draw the line is deceptive or exploitative practices. If they get called on it and double-down on doing even more bullshit, then I write them off and don't waste any more time on them.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 5, 2018 19:13:20 GMT
*cough* Anthem- Anthem Official Teaser Trailer (2017) 0.53
- Anthem Official Gameplay Reveal (2017) 6.57
- Anthem Official Cinematic Trailer (2018) 1.50
- 4 Minutes of Anthem Open World Co-Op Exploration Gameplay - E3 2018 4.22
- Anthem Full Gameplay Demo - 19.27
- (Launch: February 22, 2019)
33 m - 29 s
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jul 5, 2018 19:25:00 GMT
Now Anthem has the triple of footage compared to Mass Effect.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 5, 2018 21:19:06 GMT
Coughs...uhm, Sofa? You kinda missed the fact I was talking about the features that would attract the old BW crowd. You know the stuff that they are not conspicuously showing like Fort Tarsis story interaction, dialogue trees, permutation of dialogue, relationships, story delivery.... Hardly. The first thing we see in last year's E3 trailer is the Freelancer discussing a quest with Praxley. Much of the other games' early trailers are equally shooting or mageing with a mix of pretty cinematics. Some of the items you are looking for may well emerge 4-5 months before launch, as they would usually do with any BioWare game release. oh come on that was what...a line and a half??? No dialogue trees? Hell it almost sounded like it was the player talking (I know it was not). Also, those talking about the goal posts, I admit I was vague in THAT specific post. Of course I was responding to a specific post about things that appeal to old BW fans and the fact that Biowarw should be open about what it is and what it is not. Sure, Bioware had gone out of their way to tell us and show us this is going to be a Destiny like game. Awesome. So we know that They also told us a lot about "oh hey, this is gonna feel DEFINITELY bioware, it is going to have a story, choices and consequences (apparently only in fort tarsis) and you may build relationships like in other Bioware games". Uh....ok, have they shown any of that? Nope, only hinted at it. With the game being in development for 5 years and being released in February (it was actually supposed to be this fall btw) by now they SHOULD be able to produce SOMETHING about it. Hell ME1-2-3 had demos or videos of those features sometimes a year before release (me1's first reveal was almost all about that) so WHY not this time? If it was around the same level of importance as it was for other Bioware games we should have seen something by now no? You know I asked the people of this forum, if by E3 they are still not showing us any of this are we allowed to question the situation? Can we start having doubts about these features actually being in the game and being meaningful? Originally the answer was "yeah dont worry we will get all our answers by E3..." instead we got more shared world shooter action look at how fun it is to play with 3 friends. If not then when? Upon release? At that point can we say Bioware was less than transparent if it turns out those features are either amiss or watered down to the point of being inconsequential?
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 5, 2018 21:22:48 GMT
*cough* Anthem- Anthem Official Teaser Trailer (2017) 0.53
- Anthem Official Gameplay Reveal (2017) 6.57
- Anthem Official Cinematic Trailer (2018) 1.50
- 4 Minutes of Anthem Open World Co-Op Exploration Gameplay - E3 2018 4.22
- Anthem Full Gameplay Demo - 19.27
- (Launch: February 22, 2019)
33 m - 29 sThat is all fine and dandy and that makes the game look like a destiny clone. How many minutes were spent showing the fort tarsis consequences to your actions? Branching dialogue? Choices during story missions? You know the stuff that actually feels like Bioware games during a single player experience...
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 5, 2018 21:26:36 GMT
That is all fine and dandy and that makes the game look like a destiny clone. How many minutes were spent showing the fort tarsis consequences to your actions? Branching dialogue? Choices during story missions? You know the stuff that actually feels like Bioware games during a single player experience... I've played Destiny and already today's longer demo makes it feel much more BioWare. In any case, it's not a single-player game, it's a shared-world game you can solo.
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Post by goishen on Jul 6, 2018 14:24:23 GMT
They also told us a lot about "oh hey, this is gonna feel DEFINITELY bioware, it is going to have a story, choices and consequences (apparently only in fort tarsis) and you may build relationships like in other Bioware games". Uh....ok, have they shown any of that? Nope, only hinted at it. With the game being in development for 5 years and being released in February (it was actually supposed to be this fall btw) by now they SHOULD be able to produce SOMETHING about it. Hell ME1-2-3 had demos or videos of those features sometimes a year before release (me1's first reveal was almost all about that) so WHY not this time? If it was around the same level of importance as it was for other Bioware games we should have seen something by now no? You know I asked the people of this forum, if by E3 they are still not showing us any of this are we allowed to question the situation? Can we start having doubts about these features actually being in the game and being meaningful? Originally the answer was "yeah dont worry we will get all our answers by E3..." instead we got more shared world shooter action look at how fun it is to play with 3 friends. If not then when? Upon release? At that point can we say Bioware was less than transparent if it turns out those features are either amiss or watered down to the point of being inconsequential? The people here are more than willing to argue with you rather than admit that you're right, even about an absolute dumpster fire of a game. Here come the "That's subjective!" folx.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 6, 2018 15:05:23 GMT
Here come the "That's subjective!" folx. It IS subjective...
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Post by bladefist on Jul 6, 2018 16:22:08 GMT
Received somewhat of a kicking over that tweet, Being called 'petulant', 'entitled' etc. (fine, I'm not angry about that) I thought the point was a little more nuanced than that, but Twitter is hardly a place to allow a point to breathe. To my mind, Anthem's marketing has leaned in more to the Destiny/Division fans and I get that, story comes later and the concept needs to be shared. But it just seemed to me that channel's that cover Destiny were predominantly getting the hands-on demos, and those channel that traditionally cover BioWare games were getting a little less love. This video from ladyinsanity sums up some of the concern that lingers for me: I wasn't saying that BioWare that shouldn't make Anthem exactly as they are making it. Nor that they should not reach out to other appropriate player bases. I just think that the marketing could educate, address and help a wide selection of past BioWare fans to enjoy the game, and perhaps in time, it will. I'll be playing the game, but I think the marketing may leave some 'traditional' BioWare fans behind, perhaps unnecessarily.Yo You're 100% correct. I had to really dig around to find info on Anthem's setting, lore etc.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 6, 2018 21:52:20 GMT
At that point can we say Bioware was less than transparent if it turns out those features are either amiss or watered down to the point of being inconsequential? After release. Only at that point will we know if they have been less than transparent or that features are "watered-down", etc. Before that, any ideas about dialogue, branching storylines, consequences of decisions, etc, is purely speculation. You can say at this point that it is a Destiny clone and that there isn't Bioware-esque dialogue or character interactions, but that won't make it true. It'll just be your idea based on information that we have, but not on actually playing and experiencing the game. After Anthem comes out or a lengthy Demo (say, the first mission of the game and some free-play stuff, maybe a side mission) is issued, then you can say how the dialogue actually is in the game. Until then, any complaints about them not having shown dialogue is really just a wait-and-see issue. If the day before launch they haven't shown dialogue but are still saying that it will have a Bioware-style story, Bioware dialogue options, and Bioware consequences to actions, and the next day that is all proven to be false, then you can say they were less than transparent.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 6, 2018 22:41:08 GMT
After release. Only at that point will we know if they have been less than transparent or that features are "watered-down", etc. Before that, any ideas about dialogue, branching storylines, consequences of decisions, etc, is purely speculation. You can say at this point that it is a Destiny clone and that there isn't Bioware-esque dialogue or character interactions, but that won't make it true. It'll just be your idea based on information that we have, but not on actually playing and experiencing the game. After Anthem comes out or a lengthy Demo (say, the first mission of the game and some free-play stuff, maybe a side mission) is issued, then you can say how the dialogue actually is in the game. Until then, any complaints about them not having shown dialogue is really just a wait-and-see issue. If the day before launch they haven't shown dialogue but are still saying that it will have a Bioware-style story, Bioware dialogue options, and Bioware consequences to actions, and the next day that is all proven to be false, then you can say they were less than transparent. Supposedly, Bioware’s gonna release more story stuff later this summer.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 6, 2018 22:54:44 GMT
[quote source="/post/1082191/thread" timestamp="1530913940" Supposedly, Bioware’s gonna release more story stuff later this summer.[/quote] Oh I'm very sure they will. And I'm excited to see it. I was just saying any determination of false advertising on Bioware's part can only be determined after the game launches.
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simit
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Chris2k30
PSN: Simit2k30
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Post by simit on Jul 6, 2018 22:55:48 GMT
Yeah there addressing story in there next stream, which sort of reminds me of what they did with DA:I an ME:A with the twitch streams etc few months prior to release, wouldn't be surprised with a website soon aswell as soon as more details released.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 7, 2018 22:24:47 GMT
That is all fine and dandy and that makes the game look like a destiny clone. How many minutes were spent showing the fort tarsis consequences to your actions? Branching dialogue? Choices during story missions? You know the stuff that actually feels like Bioware games during a single player experience... I've played Destiny and already today's longer demo makes it feel much more BioWare. In any case, it's not a single-player game, it's a shared-world game you can solo. because of a few lines of Dialogue? Yeah...no Yeah, awesome, it's a shared world shooter you can solo, so it is a destiny clone, not a Bioware RPG and therefore Bioware should be very clear about all the features the segment of fans who like their old games love that they will or will not get instead if being vague as fuck about it.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 7, 2018 22:55:34 GMT
I've played Destiny and already today's longer demo makes it feel much more BioWare. In any case, it's not a single-player game, it's a shared-world game you can solo. because of a few lines of Dialogue? Yeah...no Yeah, awesome, it's a shared world shooter you can solo, so it is a destiny clone, not a Bioware RPG and therefore Bioware should be very clear about all the features the segment of fans who like their old games love that they will or will not get instead if being vague as fuck about it. They aren't going to do that, they have been clear about the features they have talked about and if that isn't clear enough for you what is or is not in the game wait for the release. They aren't going to tell people to go away because of what they think the game is. They aren't Bethesda and can scare off a good portion of their player base by telling them to go way.
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PSN: Simit2k30
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Post by simit on Jul 7, 2018 22:59:02 GMT
If you followed BioWares last couple of releases you'll know the months leading upto the launch of the game will be filled with streams an web content going into more detail on specific features.
Already they have been specific IE no romance and no companions on missions, that is 2 very specific BioWare features they have told you about an i have no doubt theres been more tgat i just dont pick up on.
Story is the focus of the next stream an no doubt questions like dialogue options, consequences of choices etc will be answered then.
If you expect a bullet point list of has an has not's this early your gonna be more disappointed than you already are, the only thing you can do is wait or be like others an just say the game aint for you an leave it at that
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 8, 2018 1:35:16 GMT
because of a few lines of Dialogue? Yeah...no Yeah, awesome, it's a shared world shooter you can solo, so it is a destiny clone, not a Bioware RPG and therefore Bioware should be very clear about all the features the segment of fans who like their old games love that they will or will not get instead if being vague as fuck about it. They aren't going to do that, they have been clear about the features they have talked about and if that isn't clear enough for you what is or is not in the game wait for the release. They aren't going to tell people to go away because of what they think the game is. They aren't Bethesda and can scare off a good portion of their player base by telling them to go way. And that is, to me, dishonest as fuck because they are actively leading people on.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jul 8, 2018 2:33:35 GMT
They aren't going to do that, they have been clear about the features they have talked about and if that isn't clear enough for you what is or is not in the game wait for the release. They aren't going to tell people to go away because of what they think the game is. They aren't Bethesda and can scare off a good portion of their player base by telling them to go way. And that is, to me, dishonest as fuck because they are actively leading people on. Did night just become day? Black become white? Up become down? Because I'm pretty sure you spelled honest as fuck wrong. I dunno, this all seems like you are setting up a trap with a self-fulfilling prophecy. You know perfectly well that your laundry list of expectations are not going to be met, so why wait? Pull the trigger now and get on with the real hating. And I don't see how you can read Bioware's strategy as anything other than completely transparent. Leading people on? They've made it abundantly clear than Anthem is not like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. It would take willful blindness not to read that writing on the wall. For E3 they put action, combat, and co-op play front and center, and quite bluntly deferred story and character until a later date, while dropping the ax on romances. And online only, and FPP only in the hub. That's about as clear a message as you can get that this is not your father's Bioware game, without it being written in legalese. At the very least, give them credit for being very up front about no romances. They could have sandbagged that. Lot's of reasons to have sandbagged it, given that they deferred story and character anyway. But they didn't, because doing so would have been dishonest. So having been straight-up about what was possibly the most disappointing change for diehard Bioware fans, why would they lie about something that's relatively small potatoes?
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 8, 2018 3:28:26 GMT
They aren't going to do that, they have been clear about the features they have talked about and if that isn't clear enough for you what is or is not in the game wait for the release. They aren't going to tell people to go away because of what they think the game is. They aren't Bethesda and can scare off a good portion of their player base by telling them to go way. And that is, to me, dishonest as fuck because they are actively leading people on. Telling people there won't be romances or companions that follow you into combat is leading people on, but they are aiming to have the same level of deep relations with people in the hub city as Mass Effect 3 and its DLC is being dishonest or leading them on? If you think those comments are leading people on or being dishonest I really think BioWare will never be able to do anything to meet your criteria of what you want.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 8, 2018 7:07:13 GMT
And that is, to me, dishonest as fuck because they are actively leading people on. By having the most information shared about a BioWare game at an equivalent point? Doesn't sound like leading anyone on to me.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jul 8, 2018 9:03:32 GMT
Was going to talk but everyone pretty much took the words from my mouth. Now i just hope the next stream about the story will be in this month. That is what i am most interested.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jul 8, 2018 17:22:07 GMT
Was going to talk but everyone pretty much took the words from my mouth. Now i just hope the next stream about the story will be in this month. That is what i am most interested. You know what? I find myself not actually caring that much any more. I'm sold on the action-first, story-second message they've been sending. I've drunk the Koolaid. Not that this is any great leap for me personally -- I enjoyed Destiny 1 for the time I played it. The way they are pitching Anthem speaks to that part of what I liked about Destiny, so I'm sold. Which means the character and story part will be icing on the cake for me. It's all upside for me, which is kind of an nice place to be, relative to the FUD I'm seeing elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I still like me my deep character, story-driven games. I'm in the middle of Detroit right now -- it's like taking all that stuff about dialogue choices and decisions that make an impact and creating a game that is only about that stuff.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
2,515
March 2017
griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 8, 2018 18:48:11 GMT
You're trying to tar everyone with the same brush. CDPR, although they are far from my favorite developers, did release two extremely good DLC's. And plus... When they release the other DLC's, you're right. They are on par with other gaming companies paid DLC's. Paying for horse armor? Neigh. Getting that shit for free from CDPR? Yes, this is exactly what a gaming company should be. And I don't even LIKE TW3. It still doesn't stop me from saying that they made an awesome game. For once, I agree with you. I knew there was common ground between us, but it seems it takes forever to find it when passions run high.
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