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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2018 17:20:37 GMT
I don't see how this says that this means they are unlikely to appear in major roles. Most of it is vague usual PR speak since they can't comment about a game that hasn't even been officially announced let alone details of it. Well he could be "lying" but i find his response very honest. A typical PR Answer would more be "Can´t talk about" or "You have to wait" If any of these Comic Characters are Companions or something else Important then are already included in the Game. Especial the Companions with their Tons of Dialogue must fix early on in Development. I never said he was lying. He honestly says he can't talk about any future games and says that he would love if the characters became companions in the game but that wasn't the original reason they were created. He never confirms or denies that they will be or not, just expressing his preference but how that is just his preference. I don't think Bioware has gotten that far into Dragon Age 4. I think they are still in the concept stage since they only have a skeleton crew while all hands on deck for Anthem. Once Anthem comes out and those people can work on DA4 then I think they will be doing the meaty stuff. Plus they don't need that long to write everything for characters. The characters in MEA for example were all written in a year and a half. Looking at release windows of other Bioware games that seems to be the norm. And I don't expect DA4 to be out until at earliest later 2020 and more likely 2021 so that fits in that time.
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Post by melbella on Aug 12, 2018 17:40:55 GMT
I'm not sure what's the problem? Solas is perfectly aware Inquisition is after him - he's the one who enabled them by saving their collective arses from Qunari and basically told them what he's up to. So even if we assume that Inquisition's plan requires the involvement of people Solas doesn't know, I think it's fairly apparent that there are parts of this cat and mouse game that will be obvious to everyone involved. The rest depends on how the story will be shaped. Yeah. That's part of why I don't see that line as evidence of the Inquisitor not continuing as the protagonist. Just because they say they'll find people Solas doesn't know doesn't mean that they are going to leave everything to those people.
Who Solas knows or doesn't know seems to be a moot point anyway since he can effectively spy on anyone who isn't a dwarf via their dreams. If there is no mention of at least trying to find a way to protect against this in DA4 (or whenever Solas comes back into the picture) I'll be really disappointed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2018 18:01:17 GMT
Yeah. That's part of why I don't see that line as evidence of the Inquisitor not continuing as the protagonist. Just because they say they'll find people Solas doesn't know doesn't mean that they are going to leave everything to those people.
Who Solas knows or doesn't know seems to be a moot point anyway since he can effectively spy on anyone who isn't a dwarf via their dreams. If there is no mention of at least trying to find a way to protect against this in DA4 (or whenever Solas comes back into the picture) I'll be really disappointed.
Yeah. A new person may be able to strike at one thing he is doing without him knowing but once they do that he'll go into the Fade to see what happened and then he'll know who these new people are and learn all about them. Between that, his gorgon power, and who knows what else he can do there will definitely need to be something that counters that.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 12, 2018 20:14:45 GMT
I'm not sure what's the problem? Solas is perfectly aware Inquisition is after him - he's the one who enabled them by saving their collective arses from Qunari and basically told them what he's up to. So even if we assume that Inquisition's plan requires the involvement of people Solas doesn't know, I think it's fairly apparent that there are parts of this cat and mouse game that will be obvious to everyone involved. The rest depends on how the story will be shaped. Yeah. That's part of why I don't see that line as evidence of the Inquisitor not continuing as the protagonist. Just because they say they'll find people Solas doesn't know doesn't mean that they are going to leave everything to those people. It'd be kinda funny if it wasn't so bizarre. While I'm more a dual-protag lobbyist, I'd just find it strange if Inquisitor thought that all that's left to them now is finding new people, when it's very specifically a search for new people done BY Inquisitor and slimmed down Inner Circle in order to help them on their mission to stop Solas.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 13, 2018 16:00:53 GMT
Anyone who has played Trespasser thinks that the Inquisitor should be actively involved in the next game, at least in the parts of it that are specifically focussed on the hunt for Solas. However, the writers claimed that their aim in Trespasser was to tie off the Inquisitor's story. This is why the emphasis seemed to be on "we must find new people", which was presumably their way of saying "don't expect to see the Inquisitor again" in any significant way. Then the more recent comics seem to definitely suggest that the Shadow Inquisition is a thing but the most likely contact and intermediary with these new people would seem to be Charter.
If the Devs are happy to write the amount of content that would be required to have the individual Inquisitors that we created feature in the hunt for Solas, then they will be involved in a meaningful way. Otherwise, regardless of how appropriate it would be from a storytelling perspective, it is likely we are going to have a new PC and new people and much is going to be left up to them.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 13, 2018 17:13:29 GMT
Anyone who has played Trespasser thinks that the Inquisitor should be actively involved in the next game, at least in the parts of it that are specifically focussed on the hunt for Solas. However, the writers claimed that their aim in Trespasser was to tie off the Inquisitor's story. This is why the emphasis seemed to be on "we must find new people", which was presumably their way of saying "don't expect to see the Inquisitor again" in any significant way. Then the more recent comics seem to definitely suggest that the Shadow Inquisition is a thing but the most likely contact and intermediary with these new people would seem to be Charter. If the Devs are happy to write the amount of content that would be required to have the individual Inquisitors that we created feature in the hunt for Solas, then they will be involved in a meaningful way. Otherwise, regardless of how appropriate it would be from a storytelling perspective, it is likely we are going to have a new PC and new people and much is going to be left up to them. But the emphasis on new people as in - a new hero to finish off Solas - doesn't make sense in the context of everything, including the scene where this is stated. They're not searching people to deal with Solas - they're searching for new people to help Inquisitor deal with Solas. The only way they conclusively tied off Inquisitor is that they gave them a specific and very clear new task in the story instead of leaving their fate open-ended after the vanilla game.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 13, 2018 18:27:58 GMT
But the emphasis on new people as in - a new hero to finish off Solas - doesn't make sense in the context of everything, including the scene where this is stated. They're not searching people to deal with Solas - they're searching for new people to help Inquisitor deal with Solas. The only way they conclusively tied off Inquisitor is that they gave them a specific and very clear new task in the story instead of leaving their fate open-ended after the vanilla game. I honestly hope you are right by this. I have always argued that it doesn't make sense to have a new PC, with no previous knowledge of Solas, be responsible for dealing with him. I've also been of the opinion that Trespasser ended our PC's story as Lord Inquisitor of Thedas, but that the story involving them as a person still had not finished. So they should be an integral part of the next chapter (I'm hoping in a sort of TIM role like in ME2), I'm just not holding my breath on it.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 14, 2018 11:53:55 GMT
People are acting as if the new protag and companions needs to be a stand-in for the Inquisitor/Inquisition when I think that would damage the storytelling more than help it.
In fact, I was thinking that the protag should be working for Solas without knowing what he is up to until late into the game with mercenary-oriented role (the protag could have its own mercenary company giving you a reasons to recruit people and deal with a lots of stuff). The Inquisition "new face" would be one of the new companions spying on you and Solas can have Velanna keeping an eye on you (filling the returning companion slot 2 games later than originally planned). Comic characters could show up as NPCs or just be referred here and there if it make sense.
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Post by Walter Black on Aug 14, 2018 18:20:09 GMT
But WHY do you want them in the game? Familiarity? Comfort? The fact that they are, at least on surface levels, "nicer" and "safer" versions of darker and more complex characters? That you think making them Companions could be a sign that Bioware IS turning the franchise in a lighter and more idealistic direction? What do you mean when you ask familiarity or comfort? You've read their comic appearances several times so you are familiar with their personalities and histories. You wouldn't have to get to know them like new characters, and can simply skip the exposition dialogue for players who weren't familiar with them if you wished. You've stated how much you already like them, so they are comforting in ways new and/or darker characters wouldn't be. Is that it, or something else?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 14, 2018 19:27:29 GMT
What do you mean when you ask familiarity or comfort? You've read their comic appearances several times so you are familiar with their personalities and histories. You wouldn't have to get to know them like new characters, and can simply skip the exposition dialogue for players who weren't familiar with them if you wished. You've stated how much you already like them, so they are comforting in ways new and/or darker characters wouldn't be. Is that it, or something else? Ah, okay. I didn't know exactly what you meant so I wanted to know before I could answer in case I was wrong. In that case, no it isn't the familiarity that is why I want them in the game since my favorite characters in Dragon Age had little to no familiarity before seeing them. And even with familiarity I never skip those exposition scenes anyway. Comfort isn't really why I want them in the game but is a perk since that means more characters to enjoy. But there are characters I don't like or am indifferent towards whom I still think are fascinating as characters. As for them being "nicer and safer versions of darker and more complex characters" like you said before, again I disagree that those qualities are what make characters complex and that 'nice' and 'safe' characters can be as well. Overall I want them in the game because I think they are interesting characters I would like to see further explored. Everything else like I said is just a perk.
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Post by TabithaTH on Aug 15, 2018 10:28:21 GMT
In fact, I was thinking that the protag should be working for Solas without knowing what he is up to until late into the game with mercenary-oriented role (the protag could have its own mercenary company giving you a reasons to recruit people and deal with a lots of stuff). The Inquisition "new face" would be one of the new companions spying on you and Solas can have Velanna keeping an eye on you (filling the returning companion slot 2 games later than originally planned). Comic characters could show up as NPCs or just be referred here and there if it make sense. Problem with this is that either A: We as players would know we were working for Solas. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people would hate the very notion of being forced to help him. Even if presented with constant oportunity to undermine his operation. B: We don't know that we are working for him, in which case a lot of people would feel cheated when they found out. Either way, it would most likely make a lot of people angry.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 15, 2018 12:12:33 GMT
Another problem is that to be working for Solas you would really have to be an elf. There is no logical reason why anyone else would. The majority of players prefer playing human as their first choice and the plot tends always to favour a human protagonist, in particular the majority of the dialogue was more appropriate for a human to speak in DAI.
Now I prefer playing elves but I would still strenuously object into being shoehorned into working for Solas just because it was my race, just as I would object to being thought a supporter of the Qun simply because many city elves have defected to them.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 15, 2018 12:27:11 GMT
A mercenary being hired by a random Solas's agent asked to do things they don't know what it is for like finding artifacts or attacking unidentified groups has to be an elf?
I think some people here have spent way too much time creating their perfect DA4 cannon that they limited their perspective a lot.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 15, 2018 18:04:24 GMT
A mercenary being hired by a random Solas's agent asked to do things they don't know what it is for like finding artifacts or attacking unidentified groups has to be an elf? Solas' agent is going to be an elf and a lot of people in Thedas are going to object to working for an elf unless they actually are an elf because they are so low on the pecking order in most places, dodgy underworld activities aside. Still Archon Radonis used his slave/servant to do his recruiting for him, so I take your point that they could be pretending to work for someone important, implying a Magister or other influential figure in Tevinter politics, when really their leader is Solas. Just so long as they don't expect the PC to be too gullible when it comes to asking questions about their sponsor.
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 15, 2018 18:42:10 GMT
My theory, if it matters, is that the protagonist of DA4 would start out with some goal of their own, like ending slavery in Tevinter, defeating the qunari or legalizing gay marriage. Solas (or someone acting on his behalf) then approaches the protagonist and they have the option to accept or decline their assistance.
After that encounter, the Inquisitor then secretly approaches the protagonist and reveals Solas' true intentions, explaining that s/he is only being used to advance some as-yet undetermined goal. The protagonist then becomes a double agent on behalf of the Inquisitor; if they had rejected Solas earlier, they return to him and accept his "help" with the goal of learning what he plans and possibly stopping it.
This would effectively allow the protagonist to be any race, since Solas is really just using them as a catspaw.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 15, 2018 18:42:45 GMT
Solas's agent(s) might not all be elves and they might not even know they are working for Solas anyway. He's good at manipulating people, got plenty of spirit friends and have no issue using underhanded tactics to get what he wants.
Also, you never had the choice to not join the Inquisition and become the Inquisitor in DAI, same in DAO with the Wardens and Hawke always goes to Kirkwall, why do people believe they'll get the option to pick who they work for in the next game?
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Aug 15, 2018 18:46:31 GMT
Maybe our DA 4 Hero is an Executor with his/her own Agenda. And the Inquisition (with Harding and Charter as their Representatives) is only one of Major Factions in DA 4.
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Post by TabithaTH on Aug 15, 2018 19:09:33 GMT
Also, you never had the choice to not join the Inquisition and become the Inquisitor in DAI, same in DAO with the Wardens and Hawke always goes to Kirkwall, why do people believe they'll get the option to pick who they work for in the next game? It’s a matter of player agency and having more than one ideological choice. Sure, the previous PCs couldn’t choose not to become the figurehead of an organisation/city, but they still had options in regards to what factions to support (Mage/templar, Harrowmont/Bhelen, Anora/Alistair). They could choose the candidate they felt their character would actually support. If you are forced to work for Solas, then by definition you are supporting his cause, even if you as a player do not want to. While some people might accept it if you’re presented with the option of being a double agent or some such, others might not want to be forced to play secret agent. I just think a lot of people will still feel like they are being forced into a situation they do not like, especially those who did not like Solas.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 15, 2018 19:51:04 GMT
Also, you never had the choice to not join the Inquisition and become the Inquisitor in DAI, same in DAO with the Wardens and Hawke always goes to Kirkwall, why do people believe they'll get the option to pick who they work for in the next game? It’s a matter of player agency and having more than one ideological choice. Sure, the previous PCs couldn’t choose not to become the figurehead of an organisation/city, but they still had options in regards to what factions to support (Mage/templar, Harrowmont/Bhelen, Anora/Alistair). They could choose the candidate they felt their character would actually support. If you are forced to work for Solas, then by definition you are supporting his cause, even if you as a player do not want to. While some people might accept it if you’re presented with the option of being a double agent or some such, others might not want to be forced to play secret agent. I just think a lot of people will still feel like they are being forced into a situation they do not like, especially those who did not like Solas. People feeling they are forced into it are going to be the same that were annoyed they had to be a Warden, the Inquisitor or annoyed by the entirety of the DA2 plot. You can't have a story without having static plot elements, people asking for unrealistic player agency didn't stop BioWare forcing the player to be in the Inquisition, a very Chantry-centric organisation, in DAI despite so many people not liking the Chantry. I don't see the difference with what I'm proposing. It's not like I'm talking about Solas being the first person you talk to 5 minutes into the game with him telling you is grand plan right away and you approving everything he's doing. I'm talking about working for random X character(s) and finding out at some point that all you've been doing was part of someone else grand plan. I suspect their won't be any stopping Solas anyway "big changes coming" have been brought up in all games by various entities since DAO and we are still waiting...
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 15, 2018 22:26:01 GMT
My theory, if it matters, is that the protagonist of DA4 would start out with some goal of their own, like ending slavery in Tevinter, defeating the qunari or legalizing gay marriage. Solas (or someone acting on his behalf) then approaches the protagonist and they have the option to accept or decline their assistance. After that encounter, the Inquisitor then secretly approaches the protagonist and reveals Solas' true intentions, explaining that s/he is only being used to advance some as-yet undetermined goal. The protagonist then becomes a double agent on behalf of the Inquisitor; if they had rejected Solas earlier, they return to him and accept his "help" with the goal of learning what he plans and possibly stopping it. This would effectively allow the protagonist to be any race, since Solas is really just using them as a catspaw. ...If I could, I'd really like to for PC to start as one of Executors/some Executor initiate/somebody hired/recruited by Executors and then we slowly unravel what either they or everyone else are about Alternatively, we start as a spy for Solas/Qunari/Executors/Inquisition/whoever and have our loyalty either thoroughly tested or actually have an ability to betray organization we're working for... which is something, I'd like to point out, two major DA devs mentioned - unprompted - entirely separately from one another and thus making me suspect there might be something of that sort in the plotline, although there's no way of telling whether it'd be a major story beat or something relatively minor.
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Post by dazk on Aug 15, 2018 23:15:40 GMT
Yeah. That's part of why I don't see that line as evidence of the Inquisitor not continuing as the protagonist. Just because they say they'll find people Solas doesn't know doesn't mean that they are going to leave everything to those people.
Who Solas knows or doesn't know seems to be a moot point anyway since he can effectively spy on anyone who isn't a dwarf via their dreams. If there is no mention of at least trying to find a way to protect against this in DA4 (or whenever Solas comes back into the picture) I'll be really disappointed.
Maybe Feynriel will make an appearance and be able to block Solas's dream snooping?
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 16, 2018 0:10:15 GMT
Who Solas knows or doesn't know seems to be a moot point anyway since he can effectively spy on anyone who isn't a dwarf via their dreams. If there is no mention of at least trying to find a way to protect against this in DA4 (or whenever Solas comes back into the picture) I'll be really disappointed.
Maybe Feynriel will make an appearance and be able to block Solas's dream snooping? Considering that he can die? Not sure about that. Plus, to stop Solas's dream snooping I think you'd have to find a Dreamer as powerful as he is, and not only he's a legendary Dreamer, he's had millennia of practice. If we're going to stop Solas's dream snooping I think we only have a few options: blood/blight magic, something ancient or help directly from the Fade (some sort of powerful spirit).
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Post by melbella on Aug 16, 2018 0:47:44 GMT
Maybe Feynriel will make an appearance and be able to block Solas's dream snooping? Considering that he can die? Not sure about that. Plus, to stop Solas's dream snooping I think you'd have to find a Dreamer as powerful as he is, and not only he's a legendary Dreamer, he's had millennia of practice. If we're going to stop Solas's dream snooping I think we only have a few options: blood/blight magic, something ancient or help directly from the Fade (some sort of powerful spirit).
Titan? Justice? Old God? Forgotten One? Other?
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 16, 2018 1:00:49 GMT
Considering that he can die? Not sure about that. Plus, to stop Solas's dream snooping I think you'd have to find a Dreamer as powerful as he is, and not only he's a legendary Dreamer, he's had millennia of practice. If we're going to stop Solas's dream snooping I think we only have a few options: blood/blight magic, something ancient or help directly from the Fade (some sort of powerful spirit).
Titan? Justice? Old God? Forgotten One? Other?
Well, the Titan is something ancient, but from tidbits in Descent in Trespasser it seems that something has been done to them that impedes them or their ability to roam the Fade or interact with the world. No way to know ATM how much of an aid they could be or whether they even are on our side. I guess Valta could be some sort of medium between them, though I'm not sure how much of presence she will have in DA4 - I expect some, but not sure how much. Also - Justice is a spirit, but I don't think it has any particular talents when it comes to Dreamer evasion? We'd probably have to find something like Nightmare that can cover its tracks by eating memories, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if we encounter Old Gods or Forgotten Ones (or Forbidden Ones) in some form. And I'd be even less surprised if we were offered some sort of risky deal that could help us in our struggle against Solas or whatever else is thrown our way. It will very likely come with all kinds of colorful consequences.
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melbella
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Aug 16, 2018 1:06:27 GMT
It might be worth it to make a deal with Gauldaran just to annoy whatever Evanuris happen to come calling. Sort of like getting Leviathan on board vs the Reapers in ME. Then we can deal with that bigger problem in DA5.
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