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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 17, 2019 19:33:45 GMT
Guilty Spark, the other Monitors like Exuberant Witness and Penitent Tangent, and the Warden Eternal are not Sentinels. They are different constructs created in a different way. The Sentinels meanwhile are simple drones following protocols just like the Remnant. Granted, but that still doesn't diminish the fact that the Remnant are far more forgettable as constructs than what the Sentinels are and aren't even in the same ballpark when it comes to the ME 1 Geth. The key is in the quality of the writing. The Geth are a strong foundation to a distinct alien intelligence and the Sentinels are a synthetic ecosystem to massive constructs which frame the Halo narrative. The Remnant are a 'meh' McGuffin and/or a sudoku generator. They aren’t supposed to be in the same ballpark. The whole us not knowing anything about the people who created them was part of the point. Comparing them to the Geth isn’t a fair comparison. Comparing them to things like the Geth Drones are. Well at least we agree on that part about the Sentinels and other Foreunner constructs. Any more than that and the comparisons start to be unfair since Halo did aliens better than pretty much any other game or movie out there including Mass Effect at its prime.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 17, 2019 19:48:18 GMT
Granted, but that still doesn't diminish the fact that the Remnant are far more forgettable as constructs than what the Sentinels are and aren't even in the same ballpark when it comes to the ME 1 Geth. The key is in the quality of the writing. The Geth are a strong foundation to a distinct alien intelligence and the Sentinels are a synthetic ecosystem to massive constructs which frame the Halo narrative. The Remnant are a 'meh' McGuffin and/or a sudoku generator. They aren’t supposed to be in the same ballpark. The whole us not knowing anything about the people who created them was part of the point. Comparing them to the Geth isn’t a fair comparison. Comparing them to things like the Geth Drones are. Good to know we agree about the Remnant's lack of impact when it comes to Andromeda's alien elements. I'll go a step further and say, in the name of being fair to what the Remnant apparently are, they are even less compelling than the Mass Relay system. Not a good thing when trying to lay the foundation for a new trilogy. It is kind of sad to think that one of the five "factions" (for lack of a better word) used to flesh out the setting of Andromeda is so lackluster. The Initiative, the Outlaws, the Angara, the Khett, and the Remnant are the only players in the setting of the Helius cluster and 20% of them are a bland narrative device. The Khett aren't much better, but they were at least more than a platform to add sudoku as a means of padding out the game's length.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 17, 2019 19:50:17 GMT
They aren’t supposed to be in the same ballpark. The whole us not knowing anything about the people who created them was part of the point. Comparing them to the Geth isn’t a fair comparison. Comparing them to things like the Geth Drones are. Good to know we agree about the Remnant's lack of impact when it comes to Andromeda's alien elements. I'll go a step further and say, in the name of being fair to what the Remnant apparently are, they are even less compelling than the Mass Relay system. Not a good thing when trying to lay the foundation for a new trilogy. It is kind of sad to think that one of the five "factions" (for lack of a better word) used to flesh out the setting of Andromeda is so lackluster. The Initiative, the Outlaws, the Angara, the Khett, and the Remnant are the only players in the setting of the Helius cluster and 20% of them are a bland narrative device. The Khett aren't much better, but they were at least more than a platform to add sudoku as a means of padding out the game's length. I never agreed to that. I just think they added to it in a different way than the Geth did.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 17, 2019 20:20:42 GMT
I really liked the remnant. I liked that we had very limited information on them. One of my favorite pieces of dialogue from the game happens after the ending, when you talk to someone in the landed/crashed Hyperion and they tell you that just the other day, a remnant ship came out of deep space, briefly docked with Meridian and flew off again to parts unknown and it made them realize that we still don't understand anything about them and it made them feel very small in comparison.
I did like that sentiment that - while we learned a lot - there is a whole lot of stuff there that we didn't solve. Quite a bit of mystery and mystique got maintained. And the remnant still have/had a lot of potential for an Andromeda sequel IMO. As an author, you could take them down quite a few paths.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 20:32:34 GMT
Officially, Bioware and EA put the franchise on hiatus. ME:A is no more "dumped" than the OT and the Milky Way.
The Quarians, Volus, Elcor and Hanar showed generic models of the info-dump species. How many quarians did you converse with in ME1.. Tali. How many Elcor did you talk to in ME1 - Calyn, Xeltan, and one merchant on Noveria. How many volus - Barla Von, Din Korlack and Han Olar. How many Hanar - The Presidium Prophet, Delan, and the other merchant on Noveria. How many geth did you talk with in ME1? - 0. Sure, that's showing you a species in depth. How many Angara did you talk to in ME:A... can you even count them? You even talked more Kett and in more detail in ME:A than you talked with members of any of the MW species I mentioned... and you STILL are going to keep virtually all the species from the Milky Way... and you're learning more about those Milky Way species.
Call it what you want, but the fact is that Andromeda has far less substance to it than ME 1 had when it came to aliens and general world building; and unlike Andromeda, ME 1 didn't have the benefit of building off of an existing IP. Yes, there was an expansion on what was present in the initial game with the sequels of ME 2 & 3 but they weren't needed to prop up what was already there. With Andromeda, you're saying that we all just need to wait until game two (or three) and then all the lack of alien elements, the underwhelming writing; and the lackluster performance of the new additions we did get; will all be rectified and it will be even better than the original. And I'm saying, that as an isolated product, Andromeda is severely lacking when compared to ME 1 in those aforementioned areas. It is precisely because it is building on an existing IP and retaining essentially all the species that Shepard allowed to live from that IP that is should not be expected to introduce the same amount of new species as ME1 did. The principle species it did introduce had far more depth and substance SHOWN to us than any of the species in ME1, including the major species - Asari, Turians, Salarians... and most particularly the Quarians... with whom we had one info-dump type dialogue with the only member of that species we saw in that entire game. The Thorian was a one-off example of a species that we exterminated moments after having a singular conversation with it. All that we were told about it was that it was ancient, big, indoctrinated thralls somehow, hibernated for long periods and was so mysterious that describing it would be like "describing color to a creature without eyes." That's just SO informative... NOT.
With the Angara, we were not only told about their government, their family structures, their diet... we were SHOWN it from the differing POV's of many, many Angara... and also from the POV of their enemies, the Kett. We also found out about the Kett opinions of the Milky Way species (through the datapads you can read on the Archon's ship) and in a few other places scattered about the worlds... something we never learned about the geth ever and only learned about their opinions of the Quarians in ME2 and ME3.
You can hold whatever opinion of Andromeda as a game you want... but it is still an OPINION and I just don't care about your opinion of the game. The fact is a single-dialogue info-dump is all we got on the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Quarians, Rachni, and Thorian in ME1. The fact is we were shown nothing of quarian culture until ME2 and we still have not actually be shown anything about the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Rachni and Thorian cultures since we've yet to visit a world built up and occupied by those species. Conversely, we have visited Aya, Havarl and Voeld (all Angaran worlds) and were shown how much about how their culture functions. We were even shown how it functions on Kadara after an invading force from the Milky Way assumed control of the planet.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 17, 2019 20:36:27 GMT
Call it what you want, but the fact is that Andromeda has far less substance to it than ME 1 had when it came to aliens and general world building; and unlike Andromeda, ME 1 didn't have the benefit of building off of an existing IP. Yes, there was an expansion on what was present in the initial game with the sequels of ME 2 & 3 but they weren't needed to prop up what was already there. With Andromeda, you're saying that we all just need to wait until game two (or three) and then all the lack of alien elements, the underwhelming writing; and the lackluster performance of the new additions we did get; will all be rectified and it will be even better than the original. And I'm saying, that as an isolated product, Andromeda is severely lacking when compared to ME 1 in those aforementioned areas. It is precisely because it is building on an existing IP and retaining essentially all the species that Shepard allowed to live from that IP that is should not be expected to introduce the same amount of new species as ME1 did. The principle species it did introduce had far more depth and substance SHOWN to us than any of the species in ME1, including the major species - Asari, Turians, Salarians... and most particularly the Quarians... with whom we had one info-dump type dialogue with the only member of that species we saw in that entire game. The Thorian was a one-off example of a species that we exterminated moments after having a singular conversation with it.
With the Angara, we were not only told about their government, their family structures, their diet... we were SHOWN it from the differing POV's of many, many Angara... and also from the POV of their enemies, the Kett. We also found out about the Kett opinions of the Milky Way species (through the datapads you can read on the Archon's ship) and in a few other places scattered about the worlds... something we never learned about the geth ever and only learned about their opinions of the Quarians in ME2 and ME3.
You can hold whatever opinion of Andromeda as a game you want... but it is still an OPINION and I just don't care about your opinion of the game. The fact is a single-dialogue info-dump is all we got on the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Quarians, Rachni, and Thorian in ME1. The fact is we were shown nothing of quarian culture until ME2 and we still have not actually be shown anything about the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Rachni and Thorian cultures since we've yet to visit a world built up and occupied by those species. Conversely, we have visited Aya, Havarl and Voeld (all Angaran worlds) and were shown how much about how their culture functions. We were even shown how it functions on Kadara after an invading force from the Milky Way assumed control of the planet. Well, Fox News would argue that we got to see a little too much of alien (asari) reproduction practices in ME1.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 20:41:50 GMT
It is precisely because it is building on an existing IP and retaining essentially all the species that Shepard allowed to live from that IP that is should not be expected to introduce the same amount of new species as ME1 did. The principle species it did introduce had far more depth and substance SHOWN to us than any of the species in ME1, including the major species - Asari, Turians, Salarians... and most particularly the Quarians... with whom we had one info-dump type dialogue with the only member of that species we saw in that entire game. The Thorian was a one-off example of a species that we exterminated moments after having a singular conversation with it.
With the Angara, we were not only told about their government, their family structures, their diet... we were SHOWN it from the differing POV's of many, many Angara... and also from the POV of their enemies, the Kett. We also found out about the Kett opinions of the Milky Way species (through the datapads you can read on the Archon's ship) and in a few other places scattered about the worlds... something we never learned about the geth ever and only learned about their opinions of the Quarians in ME2 and ME3.
You can hold whatever opinion of Andromeda as a game you want... but it is still an OPINION and I just don't care about your opinion of the game. The fact is a single-dialogue info-dump is all we got on the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Quarians, Rachni, and Thorian in ME1. The fact is we were shown nothing of quarian culture until ME2 and we still have not actually be shown anything about the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Rachni and Thorian cultures since we've yet to visit a world built up and occupied by those species. Conversely, we have visited Aya, Havarl and Voeld (all Angaran worlds) and were shown how much about how their culture functions. We were even shown how it functions on Kadara after an invading force from the Milky Way assumed control of the planet. Well, Fox News would argue that we got to see a little too much of alien (asari) reproduction practices in ME1. Well, I would disagree... we were shown next to nothing about it. We were told they somehow grab DNA and make daughters... but they apparently don't have to have physical contact to form such a union... so that limits it to the mind meld portions of that scene. The rest was just gratuitous sex for Shepard's pleasure, apparently.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 17, 2019 20:56:24 GMT
Well, Fox News would argue that we got to see a little too much of alien (asari) reproduction practices in ME1. Well, I would disagree... we were shown next to nothing about it. We were told they somehow grab DNA and make daughters... but they apparently don't have to have physical contact to form such a union... so that limits it to the mind meld portions of that scene. The rest was just gratuitous sex for Shepard's pleasure, apparently. That’s one reason why I think an asari would be a great choice for their first asexual ME romance. It would be a great opportunity to explore that aspect of the asari.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: ArchMikem
Posts: 154 Likes: 187
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Post by michaelm on Oct 18, 2019 1:06:13 GMT
Andromeda 2 with Quarians so i can have a Quarian crush again.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 18, 2019 11:20:52 GMT
Wait, how much do you know about the lore or astronomy? Just asking since a lot of that you just said does not fit either of them. For example you know it only takes like a day or two to get from one side of Heleus to the other right? Listen, if the time it takes you to leave the Heleus cluster and get to any other cluster is a day or two, it creates a giant problem for the game. Can you guess what it is?
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 18, 2019 14:45:08 GMT
Call it what you want, but the fact is that Andromeda has far less substance to it than ME 1 had when it came to aliens and general world building; and unlike Andromeda, ME 1 didn't have the benefit of building off of an existing IP. Yes, there was an expansion on what was present in the initial game with the sequels of ME 2 & 3 but they weren't needed to prop up what was already there. With Andromeda, you're saying that we all just need to wait until game two (or three) and then all the lack of alien elements, the underwhelming writing; and the lackluster performance of the new additions we did get; will all be rectified and it will be even better than the original. And I'm saying, that as an isolated product, Andromeda is severely lacking when compared to ME 1 in those aforementioned areas. It is precisely because it is building on an existing IP and retaining essentially all the species that Shepard allowed to live from that IP that is should not be expected to introduce the same amount of new species as ME1 did. The principle species it did introduce had far more depth and substance SHOWN to us than any of the species in ME1, including the major species - Asari, Turians, Salarians... and most particularly the Quarians... with whom we had one info-dump type dialogue with the only member of that species we saw in that entire game. The Thorian was a one-off example of a species that we exterminated moments after having a singular conversation with it. All that we were told about it was that it was ancient, big, indoctrinated thralls somehow, hibernated for long periods and was so mysterious that describing it would be like "describing color to a creature without eyes." That's just SO informative... NOT.
With the Angara, we were not only told about their government, their family structures, their diet... we were SHOWN it from the differing POV's of many, many Angara... and also from the POV of their enemies, the Kett. We also found out about the Kett opinions of the Milky Way species (through the datapads you can read on the Archon's ship) and in a few other places scattered about the worlds... something we never learned about the geth ever and only learned about their opinions of the Quarians in ME2 and ME3.
You can hold whatever opinion of Andromeda as a game you want... but it is still an OPINION and I just don't care about your opinion of the game. The fact is a single-dialogue info-dump is all we got on the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Quarians, Rachni, and Thorian in ME1. The fact is we were shown nothing of quarian culture until ME2 and we still have not actually be shown anything about the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Rachni and Thorian cultures since we've yet to visit a world built up and occupied by those species. Conversely, we have visited Aya, Havarl and Voeld (all Angaran worlds) and were shown how much about how their culture functions. We were even shown how it functions on Kadara after an invading force from the Milky Way assumed control of the planet. Yes we are given a much more 'in-depth' take on species like the Angara than we were given on an alien like say the Rachni for the initial game, but is that really saying much when the Angara are just humans with rubber foreheads and blue/purple makeup on? Oh sure we get to see their culture, their government, their family structure, etc. but's it all identical to humanity; so much so that if you were to swap out the models for humans nothing about the Angara would change save for outward appearances. They believe in reincarnation. So do we. They tend to have big families. So can we. They are "highly emotional". So are we; especially our teenagers. It's not really that praiseworthy when all you do is take what we humans are normally, change a couple of words around, and then give them a funny looking costume to wear. The Rachni might have been a more "dry" (I would say highbrow) take on the alien but at least they were written as something intrinsically different from us and our way of seeing things. One of the most disappointing scenes in Andromeda; and there are quite a few; was when Ryder and Co. arrive on Aya to initiate, what is otherwise a first contact with an alien species. Yet after not even half a conversation with the Angara leadership and we are communicating fluently; we even have no problems picking up on each others' idioms and manners of speech. And then, when we recruit Jaal despite him being initially stand-offish he quickly integrates with all the various aliens onboard the Tempest. No language barriers or cultural roadblocks that hamper communication; he's just another one of the crew; one easily interchangeable with the others seeing as how similar he is to everyone else. If the Angara are supposed to be 'alien' then I would much rather BioWare only use humans for everything moving forward; it would be less disappointing that way.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 15:50:19 GMT
It is precisely because it is building on an existing IP and retaining essentially all the species that Shepard allowed to live from that IP that is should not be expected to introduce the same amount of new species as ME1 did. The principle species it did introduce had far more depth and substance SHOWN to us than any of the species in ME1, including the major species - Asari, Turians, Salarians... and most particularly the Quarians... with whom we had one info-dump type dialogue with the only member of that species we saw in that entire game. The Thorian was a one-off example of a species that we exterminated moments after having a singular conversation with it. All that we were told about it was that it was ancient, big, indoctrinated thralls somehow, hibernated for long periods and was so mysterious that describing it would be like "describing color to a creature without eyes." That's just SO informative... NOT.
With the Angara, we were not only told about their government, their family structures, their diet... we were SHOWN it from the differing POV's of many, many Angara... and also from the POV of their enemies, the Kett. We also found out about the Kett opinions of the Milky Way species (through the datapads you can read on the Archon's ship) and in a few other places scattered about the worlds... something we never learned about the geth ever and only learned about their opinions of the Quarians in ME2 and ME3.
You can hold whatever opinion of Andromeda as a game you want... but it is still an OPINION and I just don't care about your opinion of the game. The fact is a single-dialogue info-dump is all we got on the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Quarians, Rachni, and Thorian in ME1. The fact is we were shown nothing of quarian culture until ME2 and we still have not actually be shown anything about the Elcor, Volus, Hanar, Rachni and Thorian cultures since we've yet to visit a world built up and occupied by those species. Conversely, we have visited Aya, Havarl and Voeld (all Angaran worlds) and were shown how much about how their culture functions. We were even shown how it functions on Kadara after an invading force from the Milky Way assumed control of the planet. Yes we are given a much more 'in-depth' take on species like the Angara than we were given on an alien like say the Rachni for the initial game, but is that really saying much when the Angara are just humans with rubber foreheads and blue/purple makeup on? Oh sure we get to see their culture, their government, their family structure, etc. but's it all identical to humanity; so much so that if you were to swap out the models for humans nothing about the Angara would change save for outward appearances. They believe in reincarnation. So do we. They tend to have big families. So can we. They are "highly emotional". So are we; especially our teenagers. It's not really that praiseworthy when all you do is take what we humans are normally, change a couple of words around, and then give them a funny looking costume to wear. The Rachni might have been a more "dry" (I would say highbrow) take on the alien but at least they were written as something intrinsically different from us and our way of seeing things. One of the most disappointing scenes in Andromeda; and there are quite a few; was when Ryder and Co. arrive on Aya to initiate, what is otherwise a first contact with an alien species. Yet after not even half a conversation with the Angara leadership and we are communicating fluently; we even have no problems picking up on each others' idioms and manners of speech. And then, when we recruit Jaal despite him being initially stand-offish he quickly integrates with all the various aliens onboard the Tempest. No language barriers or cultural roadblocks that hamper communication; he's just another one of the crew; one easily interchangeable with the others seeing as how similar he is to everyone else. If the Angara are supposed to be 'alien' then I would much rather BioWare only use humans for everything moving forward; it would be less disappointing that way. All the species in the OT were based on some form of human culture. That's nothing new for this franchise. I'd heard the "rubber suit" complaint many times over the years BEFORE ME:A was released. Quarians are Arabs, Turians are Romans, Asari are Greeks, Volus are Jews, Protheans are Incas, blah, blah, blah. Now, all of a sudden, the same people who complained back then are citing the OT's species as being so impressively alien.... just because they want to exaggerate and make out ME:A to be worse than it was.
... and your last line contradicts yourself. You want a ton more new species with each game... even though you're keeping most of the old ones and getting to know more about them in the process (although now the complaint about them adding depth and individuality to members of those old species becomes that they are contradicting the lore)... but then you prefer that Bioware would only use humans... blah, blah, blah.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 18, 2019 16:26:42 GMT
I want to answer this, but I guess I'm not allowed to argue with this user any more.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 18, 2019 16:28:22 GMT
Wait, how much do you know about the lore or astronomy? Just asking since a lot of that you just said does not fit either of them. For example you know it only takes like a day or two to get from one side of Heleus to the other right? Listen, if the time it takes you to leave the Heleus cluster and get to any other cluster is a day or two, it creates a giant problem for the game. Can you guess what it is? Please, enlighten me.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 18, 2019 16:31:01 GMT
Listen, if the time it takes you to leave the Heleus cluster and get to any other cluster is a day or two, it creates a giant problem for the game. Can you guess what it is? Please, enlighten me. If the passage of time is inconsequential and you can traverse the same distance many times over in the game, with no limitation, do you know what's stopping you from visiting the other clusters?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 16:31:48 GMT
I want to answer this, but I guess I'm not allowed to argue with this user any more. I never said you're not allowed... I said I am trying to respect the wishes of people here who have expressed frustration at our (you and I) continual arguing... so I'm choosing to ignore your responses so we don't get into any more arguments (you and I). My non-response is not an indication that I agree with whatever you're saying. It's still most likely that I disagree with you, but I'm just not going to argue with you anymore. So, go ahead and post whatever you like.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 18, 2019 16:35:30 GMT
Yes we are given a much more 'in-depth' take on species like the Angara than we were given on an alien like say the Rachni for the initial game, but is that really saying much when the Angara are just humans with rubber foreheads and blue/purple makeup on? Oh sure we get to see their culture, their government, their family structure, etc. but's it all identical to humanity; so much so that if you were to swap out the models for humans nothing about the Angara would change save for outward appearances. They believe in reincarnation. So do we. They tend to have big families. So can we. They are "highly emotional". So are we; especially our teenagers. It's not really that praiseworthy when all you do is take what we humans are normally, change a couple of words around, and then give them a funny looking costume to wear. The Rachni might have been a more "dry" (I would say highbrow) take on the alien but at least they were written as something intrinsically different from us and our way of seeing things. One of the most disappointing scenes in Andromeda; and there are quite a few; was when Ryder and Co. arrive on Aya to initiate, what is otherwise a first contact with an alien species. Yet after not even half a conversation with the Angara leadership and we are communicating fluently; we even have no problems picking up on each others' idioms and manners of speech. And then, when we recruit Jaal despite him being initially stand-offish he quickly integrates with all the various aliens onboard the Tempest. No language barriers or cultural roadblocks that hamper communication; he's just another one of the crew; one easily interchangeable with the others seeing as how similar he is to everyone else. If the Angara are supposed to be 'alien' then I would much rather BioWare only use humans for everything moving forward; it would be less disappointing that way. All the species in the OT were based on some form of human culture. That's nothing new for this franchise. I'd heard the "rubber suit" complaint many times over the years BEFORE ME:A was released. Quarians are Arabs, Turians are Romans, Asari are Greeks, Volus are Jews, Protheans are Incas, blah, blah, blah. Now, all of a sudden, the same people who complained back then are citing the OT's species as being so impressively alien.... just because they want to exaggerate and make out ME:A to be worse than it was.
... and your last line contradicts yourself. You want a ton more new species with each game... even though you're keeping most of the old ones... but then you prefer that Bioware would only use humans... blah, blah, blah.
I am one of those people that said that about the Quarians, and the Turians back during the trilogy days. They ARE humans in rubber costumes. A bit more distinct from us in ME 1, I'll grant, but still very human-like and subsequently "humanized" over the course of the trilogy. Garus & Tali are the prime examples with how they go from aliens that can't process things us amino-acids can eat, drink, etc. to regularly swapping spit (and other bodily fluids) all in the name of making them potential love interests. And don't even get me started on the Asari. Outside of their Codex entry it was obvious that they were designed to be the "space babes" of the universe. Despite that, there were the 'alien' aliens to counteract the more human ones in the setting. It wasn't a complete balance, but for your Asari or Volus you had Rachni or Geth to show that, no, the universe doesn't in fact solely operate around ideals and perspectives that we can instantly recognize. These outside perspective species were present from game 1 and they helped diversify the setting. Andromeda, on the other hand, just has humans and humans in funny makeup. There's no alien element to Andromeda and as a result the whole thing feels even more bland and vanilla than the Milky Way; which BioWare was so eager to escape from. And it's not a contradiction at all. When I say I want 'alien' aliens in my Mass Effect game, I would like to see 'alien' aliens. If the Angara are apparently the best that this new generation of BioWare can offer, then I would prefer to have them not bother with their take on the alien rather than be given humans in cheap makeup all the time. EDIT: This video sums up what I feel about the new aliens, and BioWare's writing of them, quite nicely.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 18, 2019 16:49:34 GMT
I want to answer this, but I guess I'm not allowed to argue with this user any more. I never said you're not allowed... I said I am trying to respect the wishes of people here who have expressed frustration at our (you and I) continual arguing... so I'm choosing to ignore your responses so we don't get into any more arguments (you and I). My non-response is not an indication that I agree with whatever you're saying. It's still most likely that I disagree with you, but I'm just not going to argue with you anymore. So, go ahead and post whatever you like. Don't tempt me!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 18, 2019 17:12:00 GMT
If the passage of time is inconsequential and you can traverse the same distance many times over in the game, with no limitation, do you know what's stopping you from visiting the other clusters? Just give an answer instead of answering with a question.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 18, 2019 17:13:31 GMT
Just give an answer instead of answering with a question. It means the problem is the developer.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 18, 2019 17:17:06 GMT
Just give an answer instead of answering with a question. It means the problem is the developer. No, that’s not what the problem is. The developers wanted this story to just take place in the Heleus Cluster so that’s where it takes place. Try again, and actually put effort into it this time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 17:18:30 GMT
All the species in the OT were based on some form of human culture. That's nothing new for this franchise. I'd heard the "rubber suit" complaint many times over the years BEFORE ME:A was released. Quarians are Arabs, Turians are Romans, Asari are Greeks, Volus are Jews, Protheans are Incas, blah, blah, blah. Now, all of a sudden, the same people who complained back then are citing the OT's species as being so impressively alien.... just because they want to exaggerate and make out ME:A to be worse than it was.
... and your last line contradicts yourself. You want a ton more new species with each game... even though you're keeping most of the old ones... but then you prefer that Bioware would only use humans... blah, blah, blah.
I am one of those people that said that about the Quarians, and the Turians back during the trilogy days. They ARE humans in rubber costumes. A bit more distinct from us in ME 1, I'll grant, but still very human-like and subsequently "humanized" over the course of the trilogy. Garus & Tali are the prime examples with how they go from aliens that can't process things us amino-acids can eat, drink, etc. to regularly swapping spit (and other bodily fluids) all in the name of making them potential love interests. And don't even get me started on the Asari. Outside of their Codex entry it was obvious that they were designed to be the "space babes" of the universe. Despite that, there were the 'alien' aliens to counteract the more human ones in the setting. It wasn't a complete balance, but for your Asari or Volus you had Rachni or Geth to show that, no, the universe doesn't in fact solely operate around ideals and perspectives that we can instantly recognize. These outside perspective species were present from game 1 and they helped diversify the setting. Andromeda, on the other hand, just has humans and humans in funny makeup. There's no alien element to Andromeda and as a result the whole thing feels even more bland and vanilla than the Milky Way; which BioWare was so eager to escape from. And it's not a contradiction at all. When I say I want 'alien' aliens in my Mass Effect game, I would like to see 'alien' aliens. If the Angara are apparently the best that this new generation of BioWare can offer, then I would prefer to have them not bother with their take on the alien rather than be given humans in cheap makeup all the time. The Remnant are as alien a tech as the Geth (as presented in ME1). They were little more than mook VI's, with one instance where they were showing anything more "intelligent" than the Remnant. As I said, what we know about the Rachni and Thorian is so miniscule... based on an encounter with a single individual of those two species. For all you know, their cultures are as based on human ones as the other species in the OT. Many aboriginal cultures had thralls and others had governments that ruled by consensus. Certainly, humans sing to their children.
On that front, we have the Jaardan, who we don't know yet much about, but we do know they liked creating habitats livable for organic species and then even creating the species to inhabit those environments. We also know they had an advanced language and were capable of spaceflight... not only with small and large ships, but of also making a planet that could propel itself long distances through space. Yet, you previously denied that an alien species had even been hinted at in ME:A. We also have a crazy krogan on Elaaden who is experimenting with crossing plants with animals... with the possibility of his creating "carnivorous plants" like those allegedly found Tuchanka. The Kett, through the Archon's claim, are composed of 1,000 assimilated species. Yet you continue to want to ignore those hints.
That's your choice... and your opinion. Facts are, you've lost next to nothing in the way of alien species from the OT. Do you honestly think a prequel to the OT is going to introduce anything unique? If they go that route, then you'll get your wish... we're likely reduced to "American-culture" humans vs. Roman-culture humans in Turian "rubber suits." I'll take the intrigue and potential of wondering who are Jaardan are and the prospect of encountering some of those 1,000 species that comprised the Archon's DNA any day over that.
It's not "more bland" to me. That it is "more bland" is your opinion.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 18, 2019 17:21:53 GMT
I am one of those people that said that about the Quarians, and the Turians back during the trilogy days. They ARE humans in rubber costumes. A bit more distinct from us in ME 1, I'll grant, but still very human-like and subsequently "humanized" over the course of the trilogy. Garus & Tali are the prime examples with how they go from aliens that can't process things us amino-acids can eat, drink, etc. to regularly swapping spit (and other bodily fluids) all in the name of making them potential love interests. And don't even get me started on the Asari. Outside of their Codex entry it was obvious that they were designed to be the "space babes" of the universe. Despite that, there were the 'alien' aliens to counteract the more human ones in the setting. It wasn't a complete balance, but for your Asari or Volus you had Rachni or Geth to show that, no, the universe doesn't in fact solely operate around ideals and perspectives that we can instantly recognize. These outside perspective species were present from game 1 and they helped diversify the setting. Andromeda, on the other hand, just has humans and humans in funny makeup. There's no alien element to Andromeda and as a result the whole thing feels even more bland and vanilla than the Milky Way; which BioWare was so eager to escape from. And it's not a contradiction at all. When I say I want 'alien' aliens in my Mass Effect game, I would like to see 'alien' aliens. If the Angara are apparently the best that this new generation of BioWare can offer, then I would prefer to have them not bother with their take on the alien rather than be given humans in cheap makeup all the time. The Remnant are as alien a tech as the Geth (as presented in ME1). They were little more than mook VI's, with one instance where they were showing anything more "intelligent" than the Remnant. As I said, what we know about the Rachni and Thorian is so miniscule... based on an encounter with a single individual of those two species.
On that front, we have the Jaardan, who we don't know yet much about, but we do know they liked creating habitats livable for organic species and then even creating the species to inhabit those environments. We also know they had an advanced language and were capable of spaceflight... not only with small and large ships, but of also making a planet that could propel itself long distances through space. Yet, you previously denied that an alien species had even been hinted at in ME:A. We also have a crazy krogan on Elaaden who is experimenting with crossing plants with animals... with the possibility of his creating "carnivorous plants" like those allegedly found Tuchanka. The Kett, through the Archon's claim, are composed of 1,000 assimilated species. Yet you continue to want to ignore those hints.
That's your choice... and your opinion. Facts are, you've lost next to nothing in the way of alien species from the OT. Do you honestly think a prequel to the OT is going to introduce anything unique? If they go that route, then you'll get your wish... we're likely reduced to "American-culture" humans vs. Roman-culture humans in Turian "rubber suits." I'll take the intrigue and potential of wondering who are Jaardan are and the prospect of encountering some of those 1,000 species that comprised the Archon's DNA any day over that.
It's not "more bland" to me. That it is "more bland" is your opinion.
There were also the three alien races we are giving a bit of info about if you let the salarian who is working with the Kett to spy on them go.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 18, 2019 17:23:13 GMT
It means the problem is the developer. No, that’s not what the problem is. The developers wanted this story to just take place in the Heleus Cluster so that’s where it takes place. Try again, and actually put effort into it this time. Yes, it is. If I have the ship that is able to make the trip at my disposal, if I want to and the time it takes me is of no real significance, then the only border is artificial. In the OT, I had the option to either take a Relay or take an unreasonably long time to reach another cluster. The time required made it prohibitive.
Unless this is also true for Andromeda, in which case, the one that is wrong, is you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 17:24:04 GMT
The Remnant are as alien a tech as the Geth (as presented in ME1). They were little more than mook VI's, with one instance where they were showing anything more "intelligent" than the Remnant. As I said, what we know about the Rachni and Thorian is so miniscule... based on an encounter with a single individual of those two species.
On that front, we have the Jaardan, who we don't know yet much about, but we do know they liked creating habitats livable for organic species and then even creating the species to inhabit those environments. We also know they had an advanced language and were capable of spaceflight... not only with small and large ships, but of also making a planet that could propel itself long distances through space. Yet, you previously denied that an alien species had even been hinted at in ME:A. We also have a crazy krogan on Elaaden who is experimenting with crossing plants with animals... with the possibility of his creating "carnivorous plants" like those allegedly found Tuchanka. The Kett, through the Archon's claim, are composed of 1,000 assimilated species. Yet you continue to want to ignore those hints.
That's your choice... and your opinion. Facts are, you've lost next to nothing in the way of alien species from the OT. Do you honestly think a prequel to the OT is going to introduce anything unique? If they go that route, then you'll get your wish... we're likely reduced to "American-culture" humans vs. Roman-culture humans in Turian "rubber suits." I'll take the intrigue and potential of wondering who are Jaardan are and the prospect of encountering some of those 1,000 species that comprised the Archon's DNA any day over that.
It's not "more bland" to me. That it is "more bland" is your opinion.
There were also the three alien races we are giving a bit of info about if you let the salarian who is working with the Kett to spy on them go. Totally forgot about that... It's been a number of playthroughs since I let him go. I'll have to be sure to do that on this run just to refresh my memory.
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